Very important and complex ?: How do you know it was love

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Ok this is going to be hard to ask, but I expect it will be interesting.

 

Hypothetically, say I guy gets his heart broken by a girl. He fights for her, he lets her go, and he still loves her after she moves away (lets say she goes back to her ex that she knew longer and was still attached to). Say the girl still thinks about the guy after she leaves him. Not enough to go back to him, but enough to wonder if she's making the right choice. But say this guy cries for her for years. He goes through a pain that only a few on this forum have been through. It doesn't take 6 months to get over her, it takes years. All the while he's still looking for true love. He believes that "the only cure for a woman is another woman." He recognizes the fact that if he found someone he could fall in love with that he might have gotten over this girl faster. But since he didn't he still went through unbelievable pain. When I say he cried for years because of her, I mean this literally. He even writes in his final words to her that he will always love her, even when he's married with children, he will still love her (in a special way of course, loving his wife more). But I have a question.

 

Did he truly love her? Is it possible to love someone like Romeo and Juliet did, rationally? How does he know it wasn't some psychological problem? Maybe it's something from his childhood. Maybe he was just attached to her. People stay in bad relationships for 10+ years because they are attached to the person. So what do you think is the evidence (or signatures) that this person really did love. That the pain was only because of pure, unadulterated love, and not from any other reason--just love. Maybe possibilities are:

 

-he still actively is searching for someone else

-he only wants her to be happy

-he never hates her (I've seen many people end up hating there exs, maybe this is a good one).

-he

 

And maybe as a follow-up question. Say a year later or maybe 2 she comes back to visit the hometown. Say she brings her now fiancé. All three of them meet for the first time. How does this guy act? If he really does love her in the strongest and matures of ways, how does he act around the girl he would die for when she is introducing the man she is going to marry? What if she asks him point blank, "Do you still love me?" How does he respond. How do you expect someone who is unbelievably strong yet has the strongest of mature loves act? Does he hold back the tears or is he naturally happy that she is marrying?

 

Sorry this is so long, but I guess I would appreciate general comments.

 

How do you know you have the strongest of loves and it's not something else?

[RayKay]

I think the guy has to really think about whether it is true love, or whether he is building it up into more than it is by still obsessing in a way, and hanging onto ideals.

 

I do believe you can have a very strong love, that will always last to some degree even when they are no longer in your life, and these can vary from soft spots, to a deeper love.....but I also think that as I said above one needs to be careful about allowing obsession to interfere with their lives. I think that there is true love, and then I think there is obsessive love which people mistake for true love.

 

I think yes, it is possible to always have a care for ex's, I still care for my ex's, as with some of them I had longlasting, deep relationships with. In some part of me I will always care about them, but I also found great great love again as I gave myself chance to open up again to it, and I would not change anything for the world now.

 

I think true love is reciprocal - which is what makes it true love. If she does not feel the same way, I am not sure he can truly claim true love. He can claim love, yes most definitely...but he cannot claim she is the "One"...being the "One" is also reciprocal.

 

I think if he truly loved her, he would be happy she is happy...as unless she felt the same way of him, he would not want her to be with him. If she asks him how he feels about her, then he should say he will always care about her, but is happy she is happy. He acts respectful around her, and like a friend.

 

You know its the strongest of loves when you both are equally committed to each other, the relationship and nurturing that love, when you are respectful, and caring of one another, when shared experiences (good and bad) bring you closer, stronger and don't push you apart.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

You're obession comment intrigues me. So is this at all possible. Lets say that this guy looks for love so dilligantly. He really looks hard. He's mature, his tears for this girl are the same tears you'd see from the husband kneeling beside his wife that is dying of cancer as he clutches her hand. Maybe it's not true love, it may never be that strong. But if after years of trying so hard to move on, trying if he still does cry for her. Is he still obsessing? How does one tell the difference?

 

Now before you get so pessimistic and say to yourself, "She didn't care for this guy one bit, he's obviously obessing, and he's pethetic becasue she doens't care about him." Well everyone needs to understand that we don't live in a perfect world. People make bad choices, end up in bad relationships, get divorced, and sometimes don't realize their true feelings. It could be possible if things worked out differently that they would be together. And let's say for argument sake, that she is unsure about the life with her fiance. Let's say it's the type of relationship where the engagement almost is broken off, or is broken off. Is that what makes the man's tears nobler? I almost want to say yes. But why would how she feels have anything to do with how genuine the love from the guy is. Why are his tears less virtueous the less and less she cares for him. It doesn't seem to make much sense.

[RayKay]

I am not saying his tears or pain are less if she is not returning the feelings not at all, I just am debating that it is true love in that case, or if it is obsession. While we can love someone else without them loving us back I suppose, I don't think we can truly be in love with someone when we don't have that opportunity with the to share our life experiences.

 

Maybe she does have doubts about her fiance, maybe she does want to give this guy another chance, and maybe they can work it out and his love will be returned...but I think he did himself a disservice in many ways if for years he kept crying about it rather then healing...by distancing himself from her for a while, or by counselling, or my simply accepting it was over. I think he may have built up how "great" she was, and maybe when they are together again he will realize that his fantasy was better than the reality.

 

I am a firm believer that love deepens as we share more experiences with the other person. If you ever go to link removed, they have some good articles about "building love". Love for me is about MORE than just feelings, its also about actions.

 

As for the obsession comment....I think he really is obsessing still in that first paragraph. I don't think you can continue to truly be in love with that real person if you are still at that point. Either you are trying to rush the healing process by looking hard...and the whole idea that you are looking to REPLACE someone else is keeping you in that obsessive zone. You are not open to other people, you are looking for a replacement - so staying "in love" with the idea of that ex. Maybe he prevented himself from ever finding true love by not opening himself to someone truly NEW. You know, sometimes it is okay to cry years later. I had a past boyfriend die a few years ago (we had been together almost 5 years when he died). There are times I cry about it, he will always be special to me. But, I moved on, healed and found deeper love...because I was open to it and not looking for a replacement.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

What if wasn't looking for a relplacement. What if he gave hime self time to heal, let's say for a year he didn't date. Then he tired to look for someone.

 

Take two people that are PERFECT for each other A and B would of had the PERFECT life together. Now say person A met person C first. With this person A has a decent relationship. Say they care enough to stick it thorugh until marriage and then some years after until they divorce. It really sucks that A and B didn't get together because it really would of worked great. But what happens to B? A would of been B soulmate. of course he would never have known this because C had A first.

 

Now say C dumps A so B really does have a chance with A? So how long before B falls in love with A. A week? Ok maybe not. A month? A year? Depending on the timeframe B knows more and more about A is more likely to fall in love, and A gets more and more attached to B and forgets about C more and more. But say there is a minimum timeframe whereby B would go back to C if C asks for B back, because B is still attached to C (rationally or irrationally in love,you pick). Lets say that C just ask for B back right before this threshold value is met. So B has a hard time leaving A but eventually goes back to C. A goes back for any number of reasons from attachment disorders, to actually still loving C. But the point is that A and B never had a chance together.

 

Now how does B act? Of course it will be proportional to how much B is ABLE to love A. If B is the type that doesn't love that much---some people are likke that-- B won't pine for A much at all. But if B does have a lot of love to give, wouldn't B pine for A for a long time.

 

First of all, you have to accept the premise that B could love A to that level. That years later B still misses A and the signature of his love is that B is still going through pain. I want to know if you believe that its possible for B to go to pain for years out of true love, or if it's because he's obessing? Is it at all possible for B to be mature and go through really really bad pain. Or does bad pain just mean that he must be obsessing?

 

 

And if you don't accept that premise, let me modify it. Let's say that A still has feelings for B, and C. A doesn't even knokw that B knows. So As indecisiveness drags B through hell. Is it possible now for B to through this level of pain, being constantly reminded of As love for B?

[RayKay]

Man, I feel like I am doing physics here..my brain is spinning...

 

 

I agree sometimes circumstances are such that you might not get together with the one you think you should be with (in your case, A & B)....but then if you are meant to be, you will be...know what I mean? It might not happen when you WANT it to right away, but when its right, it will happen. Sometimes you hear those stories of a couple high school kids who were in love, broke up, and 50 years later ran into one another again, both widows, and get married realizing they always loved one another. So yes it happens, but I think before they found one another again they lived full lives....maybe they thought of past and "what if" sometimes, but they did move on.

 

I ran into an ex a few weeks ago. He was what I guess I would call my first long term relationship. We dated from time I was about 13/14 or so, until I was 16ish. He broke up with me for someone else, and though that did not work out he then got involved with someone else. He has now been with her 9 years. I moved on too, dated others, fell in love again, and am now very happy with my partner. He saw me when I was out for drinks with a girl friend, and he was with some coworkers, and another guy I knew from back then in high school.

 

We started talking. His buddies were fairly drunk, and started telling me what he had said as soon as he got back to table...he was saying he had made a mistake back then, kept looking at me until I came over (after my friend left). I found out from HIM later on talking that for the last 10 years he has looked for me on and off, wne to where I used to live, tried old email accounts, always wondered where I was, and what if. He is with someone now, but always regretted that mistake and an opportunity later we had to get back together, and wondered where I was and what could of been, and so on. He thought I looked great of course, we had a great talk catching up.

 

I talked to him that night about his partner, he had doubts of her as she has gained weight, he is not sure he is attracted to her anymore. Not sure what to do. I talked to him about ways to help her (as she does want to lose), about his feelings for her. When I talked to him again last weekend, he told me the things I said that night, made him realize what he had. He is going to ask her to marry him.

 

He never obsessed over me, so thats different, but he did always have those what ifs, those thoughts and regrets...I had thought of him sometimes, but never looked for him to that degree and so on. But in the end, talking to him I made him realize just what he had already. He knew he loved her, but he was preventing himself from really embracing what he had.

 

We have more than one soulmate, I do believe that. I think if for some reason we lose out on meeting up with one, or we screw up badly enough, the universe won't leave us high and dry and never put another one in our path. There are times we just won't run into certain soulmates...if we did maybe we would never really realize how special the one we did find was...we would take it for granted.

 

Bad pain does not mean obsession....continuing to go back to that pain by playing out the events, the what ifs IS obsessing. Time DOES heal pain, if it does not, it is because we are almost accepting the pain as our burden - we are almost taking comfort in the pain as it allows us to feel, but also allows us to justify our actions....dwelling in pain when there are other options is making ourselves into martyrs - we are suffering for unrequited love. There are people who lose the people they love more than anything everyday - not just spouses/partners, but children, friends, and so on. Death or breaking up...and pain will be there. But when you make pain the focus of your life and the centre of yourself, then you are truly preventing yourself from healing. We are missing out on other experiences, not allowing the joy to grow from the pain. Focusing on the loss, rather than what we may have gained from the experience and can gain in the future.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Thank you for tackling such a difficult question. So, all things equal--same person, same psychology, same everything--do you think that the longer someone pines for someone the more they loved that person. Note: I'm talking about everything equal, and don't think I'm talking about myself. I'm dating around. I want to know, that's all.

 

But I don't believe that everything happens for a reason. If you do, maybe you should google for "Nick Berg". But I do see what you are saying.

 

Thanks again.

[RayKay]

Thank you for tackling such a difficult question. So, all things equal--same person, same psychology, same everything--do you think that the longer someone pines for someone the more they loved that person. Note: I'm talking about everything equal, and don't think I'm talking about myself. I'm dating around. I want to know, that's all.

 

But I don't believe that everything happens for a reason. If you do, maybe you should google for "Nick Berg". But I do see what you are saying.

 

Thanks again.

 

I guess maybe a better explanation then "everything happens for a reason" would be that "sometimes the events that we do not understand happening to us, become clearer with time". I know how you feel about the former statement...when my past boyfriend died I HATED hearing that line! But....three years later I can see how much I grew from that experience, how much I learned about myself, about what is valuable in life, how important love is, how strong I can be. And I became a better person - and more prepared and whole, met someone whom I live with now and am extremely happy. If that had not happened I don't think I would be the same, so that experience, while devastating and there was "no reason" for his untimely death, also served to develop who I am. Make more sense?

 

Anyway, as for the first part of your response. That is sort of a tough call...maybe if yes everything about situation and person was identical, it would almost have to be the case......however if the person was slightly different in how they coped with loss, or went to therapy or talked to many friends, or came here, then my answer would be no. But in your example of all identical, then I guess I could "assume" that it was the case maybe the love was deeper.

 

And no problem, it was very interesting to think about!