Pressures of being a man

[al7]

if you are a single person, your quality of life will be better living in a major metropolitan area than the suburbs. For example, say Al gets two job offers: One in Chicago for $50,000 a year, and another in a place in the middle of nowhere, population 5,000, with a salary of $75,000. I say, go for Chicago - you'll have more of a chance to mingle with people your age.

 

It is true about mingling.

Though if you have 50k in Chicago, you feel from poor to avergae.

If you have 75$ in rural KY say, it well like you are a decent person

It is all realtive. Everywhere we have eveything for a good life. The problem is not in absolute money, it is all about prestige! The prestige is based on ration of your salary to average salary in your area. People live, work for prestige mostly! I have tons of example everywhere...

[annie24]

But, you know, personality plays a big part in the process too. Who would they rather have? A person who is an energetic candidate, or a person who just complains that he can't get a good job because all the women and blacks in computer science are taking those jobs !?!? If the boss didn't report his student's goofing off, then it's the boss's fault for not being truthful on the letter of recommendation. The new employer will see this quickly.

[annie24]

if you are a single person, your quality of life will be better living in a major metropolitan area than the suburbs. For example, say Al gets two job offers: One in Chicago for $50,000 a year, and another in a place in the middle of nowhere, population 5,000, with a salary of $75,000. I say, go for Chicago - you'll have more of a chance to mingle with people your age.

 

It is true about mingling.

Though if you have 50k in Chicago, you feel from poor to avergae.

If you have 75$ in rural KY say, it well like you are a decent person

It is all realtive. Everywhere we have eveything for a good life. The problem is not in absolute money, it is all about prestige! The prestige is based on ration of your salary to average salary in your area. People live, work for prestige mostly! I have tons of example everywhere...

 

you feel like a decent person, but have no one to go out with on saturday night Everyone is with their spouses and cats and dogs.

[annie24]

Well - another thing - Spousal Hires. When a department is very interested in recruiting a particular person, they also will "make a job" for the spouse. As you know, many women profs are also married to male profs at the same university. Most of the time, one of these people is very sought after by the university (man or woman) and then the university will ask that another department please accept the spouse as a faculty member also. That way, the spouse just sidesteped the "400 applicants." Is this fair? Depends. If you really really want to get a certain person onto your faculty, and they say they won't move without their spouse, the university will compromise.

[al7]

But, you know, personality plays a big part in the process too. Who would they rather have? A person who is an energetic candidate, or a person who just complains that he can't get a good job because all the women and blacks in computer science are taking those jobs !?!? If the boss didn't report his student's goofing off, then it's the boss's fault for not being truthful on the letter of recommendation. The new employer will see this quickly.

 

If you are saying I complain a lot, that true. But I did so under this topic "pressure of being a man". It would be stranger if I say "common there is not pressure, what are you talkign about". There is quite a lot.

 

Besides, be serious: - I am not complain at an interview.

You know: apples to apples..

[annie24]

well, yes, men experience one set of pressures, women another. White experience one set of pressures, people of color experience others. That's the way it is. Deal.

[al7]

1. You are a very funny person. Based on ONLY a location, you assume "I have it way better" How in teh world you know that???

Yes, if you want to measure I might be able to buy 124 shirst more than you can. You really think it makes people happy?

One thing it depends what OTHER PEOPLE AROUND have. They can buy like 12345 shirts more than I can.

But still it i snot the most importan thing.

The crux here is that I live in suburbia...where people are mostly bumpkins, and moving to a city I want is not an option. It depends on where I can find a job. Now you see? there is no really abig difference betwen UK and US.

Of course unless if you say 124 shirts would make you much happier...

[al7]

well, yes, men experience one set of pressures, women another. White experience one set of pressures, people of color experience others. That's the way it is. Deal.

 

So we are quite knowledgeable here about men's pressures.

What kind of pressures do women have in a workplace? in a society?

[annie24]

moving to a city I want is not an option

 

Boooh!!! You are the master of your own destiny! Move where you want to! You may have to compromise and get a less prestigious job, but ultimately IT IS YOUR DECISION. It's your life.

[al7]

Can you honestly say you wouldn't care if you were in my situation and people with more than you were complaining about what they have? And if us having to pay more for the same things is not a big deal, then why are you complaining anyway? Because if our problems aren't a big deal then your problems are nothing.

 

I am saying that if you pay $10 for a shirt or $20 it doesnt matter much.

You have all you want: family, friends, shirts (not all expensive and fancy, but it is not a point to cry about rigth?), education, opportunity to have a job etc etc. Plus people who live around you have approx the same situation: you feel like a decent member there.

 

What can I say: It is all different for me here: no friends\family etc etc and my pay is like 0.4 of an average one here. Thats not something I would wish to you. So in fact you are right: it is better for you to stay where you grew up.

 

What I was talking about is people as potential firends or just social companion. You have that, dont you? In my area you can just forget about people, work-home, work-home is your ususal route.

[annie24]

my pay is like 0.4 of an average one here

 

oh al al al.... we are the monks and nuns of science! We are in grad school - we're supposed to be dirt broke and miserable! It is part of the job description. We work 60 hours a week while the profs go home to their cozy houses and loving families. We subsist on caffeine and free food at seminars. We have to pay our dues. We suffer in the name of science!!!!!

 

(Sorry... I'm getting carried away. I'm writing my prelim thesis right now and am getting frustrated and sidetracked...)

[al7]

moving to a city I want is not an option

 

Boooh!!! You are the master of your own destiny! Move where you want to! You may have to compromise and get a less prestigious job, but ultimately IT IS YOUR DECISION. It's your life.

 

I am not sure how you can do that: you have to state you degree, right?

If you are overqualified, they simply wont hire you.

Best idea now if you have a BS in somthing: company want such people, they dont have to pay them more, and there is a huge market that require just BS. With PhD you feel like stuck, since companies do not really want to pay you more cuz of your degree and professorship is somthing not easily attainable. Still have a lot of choices where to live?

Ok, facts: it was common for my friends to look for a job for about 1-2 years, not having anything in between. I am sure when they got an offer

they could not include any of their geographic preferences there.

 

It is just a thought: maybe it is easier to have some kind of simple degree... I dont know..like being a carpenter for exmaple: simple requirements, lots of jobs, everywhere, women do not expect from a carpenter much...you can get that job very early... sounds like it is fun to

be a simple men.

...the reason I think so, one of my friend got his MS in math.

And what? Worked for a couple of years in some company, hate dthat so much that now he drives a huge semi truck. Interesting, isn't?

[al7]

oh al al al.... we are the monks and nuns of science! We are in grad school - we're supposed to be dirt broke

 

Well, I dont expect anything more. What I fear is to be in kinda same isolation even after I graduate...if I find a job in Bumpkinsville, WI

It is hard to find a job - yes. Possible? Definietly.

Can I choose area where to live with all that? No way..

who is gonna hire an overqualified white guy?

[annie24]

Perhaps I'm an eternal optimist, but I really think it's in how you market yourself. I think if you are going for a job you are overqualified for, you really have to sell yourself why YOU are the RIGHT person for this job. Why the company CANNOT live without you! You have to force them to see beyond the PhD.

 

Is it too late to stop at a MS? Maybe this is the better option for you....

[annie24]

oh al al al.... we are the monks and nuns of science! We are in grad school - we're supposed to be dirt broke

 

Well, I dont expect anything more. What I fear is to be in kinda same isolation even after I graduate...if I find a job in Bumpkinsville, WI

It is hard to find a job - yes. Possible? Definietly.

Can I choose area where to live with all that? No way..

who is gonna hire an overqualified white guy?

 

Al... it's the same way as finding a wife. You're not looking for 100 women who will love you, just one. You're not looking for 100 jobs, just one.

[al7]

Perhaps I'm an eternal optimist, but I really think it's in how you market yourself. I think if you are going for a job you are overqualified for, you really have to sell yourself why YOU are the RIGHT person for this job...

 

Sure you are an optimist: biochemistry is a field where they hire now.

Young and pretty - why not to be one?

 

Sure, you can say you are good, but it is a law: they cannot pay you less than your degree requires. And no one is gonna pay you much more just becasue you told them you were good

[al7]

oh al al al.... we are the monks and nuns of science! We are in grad school - we're supposed to be dirt broke

 

Well, I dont expect anything more. What I fear is to be in kinda same isolation even after I graduate...if I find a job in Bumpkinsville, WI

It is hard to find a job - yes. Possible? Definietly.

Can I choose area where to live with all that? No way..

who is gonna hire an overqualified white guy?

 

Al... it's the same way as finding a wife. You're not looking for 100 women who will love you, just one. You're not looking for 100 jobs, just one.

 

With jobs it is kinda easier: you send a resume, say 300 of them. Went to some interview. All is clear: what to say, what to do.

I sent more than 300 email, and practially nothing came out of that online dating stuff.

[annie24]

Perhaps I'm an eternal optimist, but I really think it's in how you market yourself. I think if you are going for a job you are overqualified for, you really have to sell yourself why YOU are the RIGHT person for this job...

 

Sure you are an optimist: biochemistry is a field where they hire now.

Young and pretty - why not to be one?

 

Sure, you can say you are good, but it is a law: they cannot pay you less than your degree requires. And no one is gonna pay you much more just becasue you told them you were good

 

really? Uh oh.... I was always thinking you can just convince them to pay you less. arg. Perhaps you can leave the PhD off your resume

[al7]

I was always thinking you can just convince them to pay you less.

arg. Perhaps you can leave the PhD off your resume

 

If it had been the case no one would have been worried about being overqualified. Besides once you have it the difference in pay maybe quite essential, plus the thought you spent 3 years for nothing...

If you leave your PhD off, they are gonna ask you what have you been doing all that time? so it is not an easy option.

[annie24]

Sometimes is the right choice though. A friend of mine got 2 years into his PhD program, and then he realized he wanted to go to med school. However, he decided since he started, to go ahead and finish the PhD, instead of just taking a MS and leaving. He finished the PhD, got a 38 on the MCAT, had great grades, applied, applied, applied, didn't get in anywhere. So, he sent a few e-mails wanting to know why he wasn't accepted, the head of admissions from one school wrote him back:

 

"If you realized halfway through that you didn't want a PhD, you should have stopped. Because, you have a PhD, and now you also want an MD, it looks like you have no direction in life, it looks like you don't know what you want. We don't want drifters."

 

So, in his case, it would have been better for him to leave grad school with an MS, and just apply to med school.

[al7]

Yes, thats scary how perceptive those guys can be.

Even if they are not, they look at the resume.. and there is a gap. They gonna ask anyway... and it would be hard to explain it anyway.

Besides it is better to have something than not to have.

[annie24]

Well, the good news is that he applied again and FINALLY got into a med school.. However, not a very good one.

 

Yes, they (hiring people/admissions people) are perceptive. If my friend wrote an essay that said the following, I think he would have gotten in...

 

"I initally started a PhD in biochemistry because I was interested in bacteria. However, once I was a few years in, I realized that I was less interested in the research aspect. I realized that I was more interested in helping people overcome the diseases that bacteria cause..."

[volution]

Oh it does matter...

If we can't even afford to even rent even a cesspit-flat in this (UK) country, then how can one even think about ever having a partner, or family?

Families and relationships are essential for our health and wellbeing. If we can't have them because of our monetary situations, it leads to depression.

I know you'll rebound this with saying "Oh get a better job... get more money". Well, sometimes we CAN'T. We have to put up with a dead-end job because we weren't fortunate enough to go to university and have some meaningless degree.

Don't talk to me about 'chances', 'opportunities' etc.

Some people have to work 2 or 3 jobs in this country - working 60, 80 or even 100 hours a week just to be able to afford to live in their own place. And no, these aren't luxury apartments and luxurious living - this is just scraping by on the edge of poverty.

 

You have the luxury of having tons of places to go to in the US. I think you're just making excuses for not moving somewhere else where there are more people.

 

Not only do we have to contend with crap pay, crap prices and crap everything in the UK. We have to put up with crap people too. Most people couldn't give a flying fart about anyone but themselves here.

This is why it's so damn difficult to get to know anyone here, and especially depressing for people like me who are shy.

Most people here expect something from you in return - unconditional love, friendship, sincerity, selflessness, altruism, and hospitality are words that seem to have been deleted from our British dictionary.

Our country is overpopulated, overcrowded, overworked, over-rated and dying. And we've got a corrupt fool running the whole show.

 

I've been to the US a few times, and it's a whole different world - people are so more optimistic, friendly and open. I could talk to complete strangers in the US, but not in the UK, for fear of them running away or getting a slap in the face. People have so many hang-ups here it's unbelivable.

 

Hey al7 - wanna swap places?

 

Can you honestly say you wouldn't care if you were in my situation and people with more than you were complaining about what they have? And if us having to pay more for the same things is not a big deal, then why are you complaining anyway? Because if our problems aren't a big deal then your problems are nothing.

 

I am saying that if you pay $10 for a shirt or $20 it doesnt matter much.

You have all you want: family, friends, shirts (not all expensive and fancy, but it is not a point to cry about rigth?), education, opportunity to have a job etc etc. Plus people who live around you have approx the same situation: you feel like a decent member there.

 

What can I say: It is all different for me here: no friends\family etc etc and my pay is like 0.4 of an average one here. Thats not something I would wish to you. So in fact you are right: it is better for you to stay where you grew up.

 

What I was talking about is people as potential firends or just social companion. You have that, dont you? In my area you can just forget about people, work-home, work-home is your ususal route.

[annie24]

Well, volution, here it comes, you knew someone was going to say it..... Make a change! If you're not happy, do something about it! You are in control of your own life. If you need more education, FIND a way to get it. No, it won't be easy. Take night classes at a community college, correspondence courses, get a loan for college. I get a little ticked when people say something like, "I'm not fortunate enough to have a meaningless degree." First of all, fortune had nothing to do with it. It was work - hard work, lots of books, lots of papers, lots of classes, lab experiments, lectures, all night study sessions. Second, a degree is not meaningless. You have learned A LOT during those years, and have acquired skills specific to your field.

 

Do you want to live the rest of your life unhappy? Hopefully not! So, go out and make some changes!

[al7]

 

1. If we can't even afford to even rent even a cesspit-flat in this (UK) country, then how can one even think about ever having a partner, or family?

2. Families and relationships are essential for our health and wellbeing. If we can't have them because of our monetary situations, it leads to depression.

3. I know you'll rebound this with saying "Oh get a better job... get more money".

You have the luxury of having tons of places to go to in the US. I think you're just making excuses for not moving somewhere else where there are more people.

1. Let me ask you somehting: do you guys have mobile homes there?

2. Thats true.

3. You see... you just do not realize what you have and what for example I do not. You simple concentrate on that finacially speaking life in US is easier.

But do you take into account that in order toget a job you gotta move from state to state? Do you know what that mean? you wont have friends,

you feel like you live temporarily everywhere.

Just imagine: they double you pay and cut all your social interaction: would you be happy with that turn?

 

Anyway, the most important point is it doesnt matter how is your country is doing, since you is not your country. What important is that you earn more than other people around you. Then you feel confident enough and be able to create a family whatever conditions you have in the country.

So it is all relative to what other people earn.

The conclusion? The only thing we can do is to improve out salary relative to the average salary around you. So it is again: try to go to college, gt a degree, open a business... or whatever you can come up with.

In US people feel in the same position, it is all RELATIVE to the average income.