Why women like clothes... and men like women?

[al7]

1. Good point, I just figured that out myself: it might not expensive at all..

just it should have some style.

But why it is ok, not despearte for him to dress to impress,but to bring gifts\flowers would look desperate?

 

2. Oh it is tricky...you are saying that

"I could tell he had made effort to look good for me"

At the same time:

"he DOES dress like that regularly"

 

maybe I am too much into logic...but these are two opposites: he did make an effort to look good for you and at the same time he dresses like that regularly. Hm. So he didnt do anything for you? Or he did?

I am confused bit.

Did he make an effort to look good for you?

[RayKay]

1. Good point, I just figured that out myself: it might not expensive at all..

just it should have some style.

But why it is ok, not despearte for him to dress to impress,but to bring gifts\flowers would look desperate?

 

2. Oh it is tricky...you are saying that

"I could tell he had made effort to look good for me"

At the same time:

"he DOES dress like that regularly"

 

maybe I am too much into logic...but these are two opposites: he did make an effort to look good for you and at the same time he dresses like that regularly. Hm. So he didnt do anything for you? Or he did?

I am confused bit.

Did he make an effort to look good for you?

 

Basically what I mean by the latter (and hopefully this helps explain it). We all in our wardrobe have clothes that might be more dressy, and ones that are more casual for example. He will often wear t-shirts/jeans/khakis (I mean rather regular dress right) but not always with dress shoes - so just "upped it a bit" and also shaved that day and added some gel to his hair. Now he does shave regularly, but not everyday for example, so he did shave that day for the date. Not sure that makes sense - but basically it means he "added" to what he would normally wear. And he chose a "dressier" shirt, though it is one he does wear regularly too.

 

Same for me, I wore jeans and one of my more dressy tops - but I dress like that regularly as well.

 

And to the first part - because I don't think dressing to impress is "needy", I think we should dress to impress but more importantly to feel good about ourselves (wearing something you know you look good in boosts your confidence). If I am going on a date I take care to look good - I am trying to attract. Same for the guy (I hope). Otherwise I think maybe he does not care about me, or want to attract me.

 

Flowers on the other hand are more materialistic in purpose, to me on a first date its almost like saying "Look how great I am, I brought you flowers! I am sure you will tell all your gfs tomorrow". Dressing nice is more like "I really am interested in you and put in some extra effort to show that I do care. I did not bring anything but myself." I think gifts should not be on first date as they are kind of pressuring. I know one guy gave me a necklace once on a first date for my birthday that had been that week. I felt almost obligated to see him again, kiss him, etc. And he was a great guy - but that obligation I did not like. If instead he just dressed nice I would not of felt obligated/pressured. I think gifts should come when there is more of a comfort level.

[al7]

1. Ok, sure in sports people tend to think differently...

 

2. Yes, he would explain it.. but how? "Listen dear, I want to look better for you, so I shave my legs regularly"....what else he can say?

and she would not immediately scared?

 

3. Good point: if a guy's make up makes him look more rugged and manly - so there is no probem in using it? Imagine: you met a guy on a first date: he looks good: manly and rugged as you like, but when you take a closer look, you figured out he used men makes in order to look better. What are you feelings? Still it is fine for him to do so?

[RayKay]

1. Ok, sure in sports people tend to think differently...

 

2. Yes, he would explain it.. but how? "Listen dear, I want to look better for you, so I shave my legs regularly"....what else he can say?

and she would not immediately scared?

 

3. Good point: if a guy's make up makes him look more rugged and manly - so there is no probem in using it? Imagine: you met a guy on a first date: he looks good: manly and rugged as you like, but when you take a closer look, you figured out he used men makes in order to look better. What are you feelings? Still it is fine for him to do so?

 

1. Yes, correct.

 

2. Well, I do know guys who have had to explain this to new gfs that they do it for their sport. Went down kind of strange at first I think, but the women understood. But would he be shaving for HER, or because HE wanted too? I think such a conversation would be more like "I like shaving my legs. It's easier when I go get massages (hairs don't pull), I like the smooth feeling. How do you feel about it?" It opens up the conversation at least. As to what she would think, well I guess that would depend from person to person and their own perceptions. Some probably would not care and say "if it pleases you, I have no problem with it, in fact its kind of sexy as I can see your muscles better". Others might be "eewww, do you wear dresses too". It would change from person to person and depend on feelings and their own social constructs.

 

3. Hmmm, I have not thought about that. Makeup does not change basic structure of face. It highlights and smooths out, and colours. If I met a man whos makeup "enhanced" their rugged features it would at first surprise me, but I don't think it would turn me off to be honest. Different, but don't think I would stop seeing him if I liked him. To me it is like colouring hair - I know men who dye, tint, highlight their hair too and I don't find that "unmasculine".

[al7]

1. ok I got you. He did improve his clothes, but not very much.

So heh did dress to impress. Alright.

 

2. I dont mind dressing to impress. I am just curious about other methods of impressing...

 

Flowers: ""Look how great I am, I brought you flowers! I am sure you will tell all your gfs tomorrow".

I honeslty think that "Look how great I am" is MORE related to if he dressed to impress: look at me.. how Great I am!

I can assure you "I am sure you will tell all your gfs tomorrow" wouldnever cross a guy's mind if you brought you flowers n the first date.

He just wants to impress you (clear on that?), and he even doesnt know any of your gfs or if you have any. Why would he care about your gfs opinion on the first date?

so to me his messge is short ad clear "Look, I want to impress you".

 

Again, just want to make sure - it does look desperate?

 

His cool style:

"I really am interested in you and put in some extra effort to show that I do care. I did not bring anything but myself."

 

I dont see in his clothes that he is interested in you, he doesnt know yu yet, he wants to impress you, by wearing something good.

Yes, he did some extra efforts, yes, he shows he cares.

Didnt her do the same by bringing flower - to buy them - some extra efforst, they show he cares.... what is the difference between clothes and flowers then?

 

"I did not bring anything but myself"... hmm... he rather brough his cool clothes, to impress you, didnt he?

 

So anyway, what is the big difference between flowers and clothes on the first date? Both methods are clearly aimed to impress you. Both shows he cares, both show he put in some extra efforts"...

Where is the difference that I miss?

[Emotional]

I love clothes...And if i had to chose a hot guy over a hot elfit..I would most likley choose the clothes!

[al7]

2. Sure, guys who does it for port re excused. Agree. No problem here.

 

3. guys who does it for SOME OTHER reasons.. ok, they might be excused too, at least many if not most women would excuse them I guess.

again that fine.

But what if... he wants just to look better?? More sexier? wants to be more attractive for her? Can he say "I like shaving my legs, I think it makes them look better, I like the smooth feeling. How do you feel about it?"

 

4. Interesting! so you would be surprised... positively? or negatively?

you dont expect it, right, when you saw it: you feel better or worse?

 

5. Can I take that as a permission for guys to use make up in order to look more manly\rugged? Or still it is not generally allowed practice for men to use men's makeup?

[Emotional]

eyeliner is cool on some guys...And very few can pull it off...

 

i think us girls are kindof completing with eachother...Guys come seconde i think because the reason we buy it is to make ourselves feel better.

Guys is more like a competition With guys they like to look their best and like to have the girl...im not sure where im going with all of this but yeah...

 

This topic is cool.

[al7]

I love clothes...And if i had to chose a hot guy over a hot elfit..I would most likley choose the clothes!

 

OMG!!! I am completely speechless.......What would you eventually tell your guy with hot clothes? Somehting like "I didnt really liked you, but your clothes were hot?"

wow, what a great relationship it might make..

when you say get married are you also going to want him to sleep with his clothes on, since they are hot, and not him?

[Emotional]

OMG!!! I am completely speechless.......What would you eventually tell your guy with hot clothes? Somehting like "I didnt really liked you, but your clothes were hot?"

wow, what a great relationship it might make..

when you say get married are you also going to want him to sleep with his clothes on, since they are hot, and not him?

 

 

 

..I meant for myself lol I guess i missed the topic or something...

 

when it comes to my happiness Getting myself a new elfit would be better then going for some random guy who i think is cute. Umm Do u get it now? Im confused

[annie24]

he he he... I can just see Emotional right now talking to an ugly guy, "Oh no honey! Keep that Armani suit on! It's all you've got going for you."

[Mun]

This brings back a memory: I remember I loved the way a certain someone looked in a cowboy hat that I wished he would have worn it to bed. Giddy Up!

No offense to anyone here, but sometimes the way a person looks is ALL they got going for them.

:sigh:

[al7]

This brings back a memory: I remember I loved the way a certain someone looked in a cowboy hat that I wished he would have worn it to bed. Giddy Up!

No offense to anyone here, but sometimes the way a person looks is ALL they got going for them.

 

 

I guess it's fine not to like somebody and just like his dress (or did you refer to his looks as well?)

The only question I have is why to stay with somebody who doesnt fit your idea of good relationship...if you know for sure "the way a person looks is ALL they got going for them" would not it make sense just to move on and end a relationship?

[al7]

I want to date a guy that cares about his appearance. Why? because that tells me that he wants to look good for ME... and that's important to me.

 

..."Because (when a guy care about his appearance for a date) tells me that he wants to look good for ME..."

 

Very good. Doesnt he want to look good in your eyes, for you,

if he brings flowers on the first date?

 

He want to look good for you: he might dress up or bring flowers.

From a guy's point of view these are the same thing.

Why would most women say first is fine and the second makes him look desperate?

[Kitz]

when it comes to my happiness Getting myself a new elfit would be better then going for some random guy who i think is cute. Umm Do u get it now? Im confused[/color]

 

Oh, same. Relationships come and go and can be frustrating and confusing, but clothes are nice, simple and always there. ;D hahaha.

I love getting new outfits -- all nice n new and you put it on for the first time when you go out, even if its just to get milk, and you'll always turn heads. Meanwhile, go down the street to get milk in your old trackies, some hole-ey old baggy guy T-shirt, no makeup and old slip ons, and people just treat you like one of the crowd. Clothes do count. ;D

[Mun]

Hey there,

I'll answer your questions. Why stay with someone who only has looks going for them? To be honest I wouldn't stay with someone like this for very long. Their look would attract me, but they better have some substance too.

Second. Why him dressing nice for me is ok but him bringing flowers is desperate? Because him looking nice shows me he respects me enough to show up looking clean and attractive, but the flowers too soon in the relationship makes me feel like he is trying too hard--which makes me wonder what's wrong with him. He should bring them later on after we know each other better and he knows for sure he likes me, not too soon or I'll feel weird. Maybe that seems strange to you, but it's how I feel.

 

I want to wonder a little bit about whether a man is interested or not, I don't want him to show all his cards up front. If he does that then I wont daydream about him. I'll know where he stands and some of the excitement and mystery will be gone. At least let me wonder for a few dates what's going on...then he can bring the flowers and I'll think " ohhh he is into me"

[al7]

1. Thanks!

 

2. I understand flowers part, yes it may seem like he is desperate.

The thing I am having problem understanding is his clothes.

 

"he is trying too hard"...

Honestly, dont you think that to buy flowers is EASIER than to

dress up? Ot at least they are comparable in terms of efforts.

In both cases he is trying to show you how good he is: either by bringing flowers (we are talking only about the first date) or by dressing up.

Do you agree?

If yes, why there is that HUGE difference between flowers and his dress?

[Mun]

The flowers are for me. The clothes are really "him" and if he is bothering to dress nice then it is for me too.... but it's more about him wanting to look nice. The flowers aren't going to make him look any better, the clothes might though.

 

Why is this so important? If you don't want to dress up then don't, no big deal. You can make a statement that way too... and you might find a date that way too. What I'm saying is that if you want to have better luck then wear something more flattering.

 

I would tell a girl who doesn't like her red hair to either live with it or there is always haircolor. She can change it and it might be more flattering to her. That's the thing about "looks" you don't have to stay with one for long if you don't want to.. there are other options.

 

And just when you thought things were simple... what if you dress really nice but you still get rejected? There will always be someone who does NOT find you attractive--taste is a personal thing. Soooo you could dress with the latest most expensive clothes and still not find a date... sad isn't it?

[al7]

The flowers are for me. The clothes are really "him" and if he is bothering to dress nice then it is for me too.... but it's more about him wanting to look nice. The flowers aren't going to make him look any better, the clothes might though.

 

Why is this so important? If you don't want to dress up then don't, no big deal. You can make a statement that way too... and you might find a date that way too. What I'm saying is that if you want to have better luck then wear something more flattering.

 

 

What amazes me is two things: how close these for him: to bring flowers or to dress nicely... and how different those are perceived by women: the former is a sign of being desperate, the latter is a sign of a cool gentleman....

 

Yes, flowers are for you. Yes, I agree it shows he is kinda desperate.

But his clothes is not for him: he doesnt see them much, you see his clothes, so the clothes are for you, right? Besides he did not dress for himself.. why? He dresses for you...

So In both cases he did something for you... but the reaction is so different....Why is that? What I am missing here?

[al7]

Clothes are only first impressions, its not like girls stay with a guy bc they dress well.

First impressions dont last long anyway, as soon as the guy talks, you can see what he is really like. Fair enough it may be true for what you are talking about, one night stands, where it is more superficially based, rather than for a long term relationship, where it is not based on something so superficial.

And frankly i dont care about a guys earning power. It is so hard to find a guy with a great personality who you click with, if you have to put money on your list as well, i think it would be ruling out a lot of great guys.

 

Yes, clothes are only first impressions. But why his clothes are fine for you, but his flower are are not fine for you (shows he is desperate)?

In both cases he did something pleasant FOR YOU ONLY. Not for himself or anytbody else. Why it is perceived in so different manner?

[Mun]

I know you won't want to hear this, but maybe you have to be a woman to understand.

 

It is different because it just is. The flowers stay with the women the clothes.. he takes them with him.. I'm reaching here.

[al7]

Opps. (I remember I wrote that but I cant find it anymore to edit)

Should be: "I exclude some players...."

Obvious I didnt mean anyone specifically.

 

Dont worry: if I have ment somebody here I would have stated that person.

[al7]

I know you won't want to hear this, but maybe you have to be a woman to understand.

 

It is different because it just is. The flowers stay with the women the clothes.. he takes them with him.. I'm reaching here.

 

Aha, like in that "what women want" with Mel Girbson...

 

I see what you are saying..if it is true, then the division between desperate action and not so desperate are simple: he should not leave anything to her. Lets assume it is true.

Now...If I set up a webpage with lots of info about myself\pics etc etc...

I was told it would look VERY desperate. But I guess I am not leaving anything to her.. right?

[al7]

 

1. Maybe because people who feel good about themselves and who are confident in who they are may dress better as well, because they take pride in their apperance and want to take an effort not only for the girls but for themselves as well.

Maybe it gives an impression of self confidence.

 

And i think clothes are more subtle than flowers, flowers may seem that he is trying to win us over or something.

 

1. Men dress better not because they are confident. Rather they want to look confident, attractive to women and maybe show their social status.

If a mam just confident... why would he want to dress up?? He is already confident, he doent need anything else to supprot that.

At least that how I think.

 

2. Yes, I agree flower show he is trying to win women over. Ok.

What do his clothes show? He is not trying...attract women?

if he is dressed up for the first date, why did he do that?

Not because he is confident. No.

[Mun]

Don't put too much info.. where's the mystery? Where's the challenge? There wont be much desire to contact you if she has ALL your information down now will there? You give your stats and say something about yourself but keep it brief. Put up 3 pictures-- tops.

 

Do it, don't over-do it.