Do I have a chance?

[delmar]

vhshowdown, I try hard to collect my thoughts when around him, but I seem to have hard time pinpointing where to begin and how to approach the situation when there are usually big gaps in our seeing eachother. Also, I'm not altogether sure what exactly it is he's questioning about us.

 

He will actually be over to drop off a pet carrier that I need for my cat's vet visit tomorrow. He took off today due to a cold.

 

I'm dying to know what/if anything has developed between he and this person he is seeing. I know I don't have a right to ask, but at the same time, I wonder where I stand. Or maybe I should just be patient and wait until 1) he is feeling better and 2) when he is ready to initiate conversation.

 

I need help guys--he'll be here in about an hour or so, what do I do? Thanks for listening.

[delmar]

Well, we met up very quickly yesterday as I needed to get to my part-time evening job when he came by to drop pet carrier off. I looked out for his car through my front window so that he wouldn't have to find parking or get out and breathe in the cold air, etc. It was about 28 degrees and windy here yesterday, very cold.

 

Anyways, feeling under the weather and all he naturally was not the most pleasant. I asked him what/how he was feeling. He opened up all the windows as if to air out his sick/cold germs from the car so I wouldn't get sick, but his tone of voice seemed abrupt as he then hastily told me "not to come too close" due to the cold, etc. It definitely took be aback--not sure if it was the cold talking or what, but I just kind of gave him a "whatever, dude" kind of look and left it alone, keeping my cool throughout, asking him about his symptoms. It was his tone-I think he realized it afterwards too. We had small talk (talked about his symptoms, asked me how I was doing) and he dropped me off close to subway so that he could make an easy entry onto the expressway back home. I rode the subway in to work feeling crushed and rejected.

 

So, it was just an overall distant and kind of cold little exchange b/w us, considering we made love only last week. We have entered a territory I am not familiar with--the holding back, refraining from expressing a thought or a feeling, etc. It kills me how distant he can be with me, when just a few months ago it was ME who stopped him from greeting me with a kiss on the lips, and calling me "pretty girl" like he used to when we were together. It hurt too much to hear, when I want to see him more and he doesn't. Normally I would call to check up and see if he was feeling better, suggest rememdies, etc. But I think even that might get misinterpretted. If he really wants to reach me he will. This is so frustrating and realizing that I need to let him go right now hurts so much. I know in my head that it's what I need to do but my heart won't stop aching.

 

You all are right. The ball's in his court. I just wish I knew if he is as confused as he says he was a few weeks ago or if there is even some small part of him that sees what we could be now that we have grown in the last 2 years.

[delmar]

Today is tough. I'm trying to get into study mode as I need to submit a paper online today by 5pm to my professor. I miss my friend.

[delmar]

It's been a while since I've posted on my situation. Not too much has been happening, but also I think I needed to try to distance myself from the anxiety of it all for a bit.

 

The ex and I actually did speak on the phone a week or so ago, in which I was able to better express some of the things I'd needed to tell him WITHOUT the excess emotion. It felt really good that he understood some of my lingering worries about not ur possibly not being able to get past some the trials of our history together and in effect might be holding back because of this. He assured me that he had made peace and come to terms with things long ago, and is somehow able to see both sides and how we both contributed to problems we had.

 

He still maintained how he wants to take the time to see if anything will develop b/w he and this girl he is now seeing. I have to accept that.

 

He had a birthday recently. I decided to send him a very simple gift in the mail with a card wishing him well and to enjoy day, etc. He called when he found it that evening on his doorstep. He seemed touch by it, we chatted a bit about the day, and I innocently made a comment about a possible birthday kiss in the foreseeable future. He responded just as playfully, which naturally felt like encouragement from my standpoint.

 

No contact until 3 days later (last night) when I got home from having a light dinner and drinks with some co-workers just a wee bit tipsy. Tipsy enough to feel uninhibitted about calling him . He was actually really welcoming/receptive to my call. I was in a mood I guess and I think he sensed that, because of the call at such a late hour, yet he was the first one to first take the call to a more sensual direction.

 

I totally took the bait, and we continued on with the teasing play talk, etc. He suggested he come over but I didn't follow up beyond just suggestive talking. I ended the conversation first (after about an hour) and went to sleep shortly after and that was that.

 

Who knows what it all means if anything at all. I am much more calm lately though and try to keep things in perspective. Not calling him when I want to share my day, etc., is tough but it has helped me to do some soul searching and get on with things I need to do daily. I am a part-time student and this started out as a real distraction for me. The open-ended nature of our relationship was making me crazy, but taking a little more control of my behavior keeps me strong somehow.

 

I

[shockeddismayed]

Hi Delmar,

 

Ok.... I read through all of this... and I agree it is a tough one.

 

But there are a few things I'd like to point out:

 

First, others have touched on your past together, but I have to be frank and say how much it seems like you've taken for granted what you put him through. Sure he says he's made peace with it NOW... but let's play it back:

You withdrew emotionally.

You didn't ask for what you wanted.

You didn't get what you wanted.

You cheated.

You left him.

You considered coming back.

He forgave you (or at least was trying to).

He agreed to take the blame for YOUR actions.

He tried to make it work.

He read self-help books.

You rebuffed him.

 

And now, a year later, you are worried because you have to endure a few *not so mixed* messages on his part? I know it is tough, but are you kidding? You probably half destroyed him, so he's going to have HUGE barriers up to protect himself from you. I don't mean to be so harsh, but I am slightly dumfounded that you don't seem to have realized what he must have gone through to get to where he is now (sounding quite secure)... and I'm pretty shocked that you think he's just enjoying having the upper hand. OF COURSE HE IS, and WITH REASON.

 

It's time for you to step up to the plate and win his trust back.

 

How are you going to do that?

 

1) It is going to take a LONG time... he is going to test you (in fact his comments about seeing where things go with the other girl are likely part of this).... and he should test you. How can he be sure you aren't just looking to fill a void? Remember that part.... don't do things that make it look like you are desparate for him, that is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than making him feel that you love him. You must make him feel secure, not make him feel that HE makes YOU secure.... on that note:

 

2) Don't sleep with him any more. Flirt a bit... be suggestive, compliment him... but DO NOT sleep with him. This does two things.... number one, he gets to have you without deciding.... number two, it isn't impossible that he might think you are just in it for the physical (and related emotional) fullfillment you get.

 

3) On the flirting... serve him notice of your interest... continue to do it, but try and sense his imaginary line. My guess is that on "that particular day", the pants comment crossed the line.... he may have been feeling less trust of your intentions, or a bit of his residual resentment (and he MUST have some given the past) came out. I don't know if you can avoid this entirely... you could occasionally call him on it later, but you are also just going to have to swallow a bit of it for a while.

 

4) Do be fun. It sounds like you are realizing this. Make dates with him... do fun things... show him/remind him of what there is between you. Give yourself a chance to show that you have grown. You are in a great situation in this regard... he is willing to see you.

 

5) Put the other woman out of your mind. If he ends up with you, she won't have mattered... if he doesn't, there is nothing you can do to change it.

 

6) I agree with others... avoid IMs....and moreover, avoid contacting him with no purpose. It makes you look needy.... and the bad part is that in your particular situation, looking needy is ALSO going to make him think that you are unstable, or don't know what you want. I know this seems strange, but he may be thinking you are only kicking back around now because you couldn't find anything better, and don't want to be alone. Call him fairly frequently (2-3 times a week for a start), and make sure that at least one of those calls is to invite him to do something fun together.... even if it is just a coffee.

 

7) Continue dating him... I know I said this already, and sure he is dating this other girl, but SO WHAT? As long as you are ethical, it is ok for you to get in there and remind him who he is missing.... it also shows him that your interest is in him... in his soul... in being with him EVEN if you've showed up too late for reconciliation. In short, you ARE going to have to hang yourself out there a bit, but look at it positively.... at least this man is willing to include you in his life NO MATTER WHAT. Show him you are willing to do the same (for now).

 

8) Try and remind yourself of his patience... exercise some of your own. I don't think he is going to string you along... I do think he is going to test you.... there is a difference. When you can't take it anymore, cut out for a little while... or for good. Only you know when things are building up inside.... but IMO, you've only just begun here, so you are going to need to find a way to vent away from him..... and put this situation into perspective. It shouldn't control your happiness and your life... this is the tough lesson we've all been forced to learn as dumpees. Some dumpers learn it... I won't speculate for you, but you MUST learn this before you have any hope of lasting through this emotional turmoil.

 

Good luck....

[delmar]

shocked&dismayed, I totally get how I may be coming accross right now as though I am taking the strain I caused b/w him and I for granted. I put him through a lot of emotional anguish and maybe I'm not adequately recounting the details(probably b/c I am still somewhat in shock and still very humiliated by what I did) in their entirety, but trust when I say that I am very much aware of the deep pain and confusion my actions caused due to my own selfishness. I beat myself up for a very long time, still do. The guilt and shame I felt was almost immobilizing...

 

I completely understand why he has put up walls at this point and know that I need to proceed at his pace to some extent and gain back his trust. I don't dismiss the work it took for him to get where he is now and am very mindful of this, not to mention thankful that he is ok and doing great. Your comments made me wonder though if I am coming accross this way to him, too, though...

 

Thank you for being so candid, your suggestions really hit home for me. I have actually been having second thoughts about being physically intimate with him any longer. It will help to keep things in perspective and will feel more special if we do end up back together. It's tempting though, and I know I will have to stick to my guns on that one. I have never found it difficult to get a reaction from him and he definitely initiates this sometimes. There is still that kind of energy b/w us.

 

I've been seeing friends a lot more lately and have lots of assignments to work on, so I will not want for things to do/think about and will ease up on calling him as often, which I already have begun to do. We have always maintained that we will always be in eachother's lives, so maybe rebuilding a solid friendship (with occasional flirting) again is the way to go for now...

[delmar]

I just checked my voicemail after coming home from work and got a brief one from him calling to wish me a Happy St. Patty's Day. Btw, we aren't Irish, which I found sweet anyway. His tone seemed light and he seemed to chuckle as he got the words out. Anyway, not sure I should be returning his call. I'm second guessing a lot lately, and don't know what to do.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Btw, we've not spoken since I called him that Sunday night.

[codaaurora]

You know I saw a really good suggestion on another board, and thought I might pass it along.

 

I know how hard it is to NC, I'm in the middle of struggling with it myself, but someone suggested that when the ex calls, do not return their call right away (if you absolutely cannot stick with NC for a long period of time), to call them back after a few days, keep it light and if asked just state that you've been busy (with a happy tone), and to keep it short with you ending the call. "Have to run...talk to you later".

 

I know that this is hard to do, you want to call them right back, but if you take a step back and look at it logically, you'll see that while waiting hurts, it's best. By calling right back you are giving the upperhand, control and while this should not be about games, and it smacks like one, it's not. It's giving you control over something that you don't have much control over to begin with. You are not at his beck and call, you need to prove that to yourself. That you are in control of your life, not anyone else. That's what I'm learning here. Plus, it shows him that you are not sitting around waiting for him to call, even if you secretly are! LOL.

 

I'm right there with you and feel your pain, sometimes that's all that we need, to know that we aren't alone.

[shockeddismayed]

I just checked my voicemail after coming home from work and got a brief one from him calling to wish me a Happy St. Patty's Day. Btw, we aren't Irish, which I found sweet anyway. His tone seemed light and he seemed to chuckle as he got the words out. Anyway, not sure I should be returning his call. I'm second guessing a lot lately, and don't know what to do.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Btw, we've not spoken since I called him that Sunday night.

 

You dumped him. You shouldn't make him wait too long for a thank you. In this case it doesn't have to be phonecall... a voicemail or email should be fine. Just something to show him you recognized his act of kindness.

[delmar]

I returned the call that night, he picked up. We talked about our week, and kept it light. I expressed some regret over having called him after a few drinks on Sunday. He had a sense of humor about it and told me there was nothing to be sorry about.

 

We are friends and I don't look at us in "dumper/dumpee" terms. They're not even in my vocabulary. We are two people who committed ourselves to eachother at very young ages and who didn't give the other the opportunity to grow as individuals first, before entering into marriage. Fortunately for me, he knows who I really am and was before I shutdown emotionally and began to act out in the destructive ways that I did.

 

I do not want to rush things along in any way. I'm not ready for that and I've already begun to take steps back (not calling as much). Sure, I'd love to spend more tme together, but he's made it clear that he's not interested or ready for that either. I will continue to work on myself, stay in touch with him maybe once or twice a week, and I'd also like to develop my ideas on how I can be a better partner, too.

 

Along the way I know I will feel conflicted as to how to behave in this new level of our relationship. I don't want to overstep and don't yet have a clear sense of what is/isn't appropriate, in terms of how open we should be about our own separate lives, etc.

[brando]

sounds like your gaining a new perspecive on life. I know it is hard. Sharing every detail of your life with someone and then feeling awkward with asking them a question, or even calling them to say hello. The best thing i did (am doing) is working on me. Discovering the things i felt contributed to my divorce, my insecurities, my beliefs, my view point. It is a painful process sometimes, (looking at yourself) and even learning to take care of myself is difficult. Anyway sounds like your doing fine Delmar, hang in and keep posting.

 

Be well.

[shockeddismayed]

There you go! That is a healthy perspective talking!

[delmar]

Yes, Brando, talking with him now after all this time and all we've been through, feels so very different. We're both the same people, but in many ways... we aren't anymore, ya know?

 

My biggest fear is that in my quest to gain a new perspective on life and my outlook, to learn from my mistakes and insecurities, that I will grow complacent somehow. See, it's so easy to get caught up in our daily lives, friends, family, other people's problems, etc., and I'm concerned that I don't have a good enough handle on how to stay focused on what I need to take from this.

 

Does this make sense?

[brando]

I understand Delmar. I keep in contact with my ex wife thinking it is a positive thing to do... and am beginning to question my intentions. I guess i wanted to show her that im okay without her. I have my days when i feel great, but there r the days when i feel i miss her. She is like many of the x's on these boards, she simply moved on. And that is okay, it is her life, her decision, and i cant be bitter or hate her for what happened. I can, but what do i get out of it. I am realizing that i dont have to talk to her or her daughters and it doesnt mean anything other than i am moving on. No hate, no guilt no retaliation. Does this make sense?

 

Anyway John Mayer has a new song called daughters and there are a few lines in the beginning of the song that hit home for me about this, so i'll share because it has to do with anyone experiencing a loss of a relationship:

 

I know a girl

She puts the color inside of my world

But she's just like a maze

Where all of the walls all continually change

And I've done all I can

To stand on her steps with my heart in my hands

Now I'm starting to see

Maybe it's got nothing to do with me

 

be well.

Brando.

[delmar]

Yes, I know how hard it is to even consider the idea of cutting ties completely. The thought overwhelms and saddens me and is not necessarily something I'm quite ready for just yet. Not to mention, I am his niece's goddaughter and also feel very close to his mother still. She actually called me last month to catch up.

 

Try not to worry so much about the outward perception of your possibly taking a little time away from the ex and her daughters. They must know how you feel about them, want you to be happy, and will expect that inevitably you will be taking bigger steps toward move on. I think it's healthy to reevaluate the true intentions of our actions every now and then though as sometimes they change without our fully realizing it. If you think staying in contact with her is stunting your progress, I believe, from what I can sense from you via message board, that you are strong enough to recognize this and follow up accordingly in order to free yourself of those ties and to protect your heart--but only if you think this is the case of course.

 

Hang in.

[brando]

Thanks Delmar i appreciate your advice.

 

be well '

Brando