bad friends or not even friends at all?

[staysound]

my situation is:

I work in a bar which is a place me and this particular group of people have frequented now for the past 10 years.

(I have worked there in the past as some of those other people have too)

So these people are very much more than just acquaintances but I wouldn't call them my best friends.

However, we do visit each other in their homes, for dinner, or going to the park, we have one on ones, sometimes we're all together,

it's quite a dynamic group and sometimes people are added to the group and sometimes people disappear due to their relationships or other private or personal reasons.

 

 

I have always considered myself to be a 'steady' member of this group, even when in a relationship I kept hanging around making dates and stuff.

But, like in any large group of friends, sometimes two or more people don't get along for a while or get along better with some of the other people.

Which is no problem to me, I'm 35, I can handle situations like this.

Since a year or 2 I had fallen out with one specific person in this group, I handled it in a mature way, she never apologized though and she acts as if I was the

one that wronged her while it is very much the other way around. She had been the reason I felt it was necessary to steer clear for a while since she is the most popular one

and tends to get her way by acting as if she is holier than thou. I let her have her precious hero time and spent my days back then, hurt yes, but I'm not the type for revenge or anything in the likes,

and I managed to create new friends and basically new hang outs without having too many bad feelings towards anybody else in that group of people.

 

 

After a year or so I returned to the bar and fit back in with their social activities. It was all really kind of mature on my end, I tend to praise myself for how I handled things back then.

But, I'm a person who is not afraid to speak my mind and I got praise for that in the past as well as resentment but I really can't hold my tongue when I see things that aren't right.

I'm allergic to back stabbing, hypocrites and manipulators and I understand why that would make some people uncomfortable but those are not the people I would want close to me anyway.

 

 

I wasn't aware until short lately that I was being blocked out of activities. I got a small sense of it but blamed it more on my overanalytical mind or a shortage of sleep on my end.

Last sunday however, there was a theme party organised by one of the people of our group. This party is every month, there's always one of us who spins the records, I did last time for example, it's cosy and everybody always attends these parties.

When I arrived there was nobody there. I just thought I was the first one. I texted one of those people but didn't get an answer. Still wasn't really worried but something did start to nag within me.

When I sat outside to smoke a cigarette they suddenly all arrived together. Some of them couldn't look me in the eye. They didn't wave me hello and were pretty quiet around me.

I find out minutes later they ALL went for dinner (like 10 or 12 people or so) and I wasn't invited, didn't know anything about it. Although it was definitely planned since you have to have reservations in that restaurant.

There were even people there that wouldn't normally go along for dinner!

I felt like I was in preschool all over again. I was so hurt, I felt so small.

I got angry with some of the people I really considered friends, and although one of them said she felt bad for me for not being invited, she said she didn't know why not but didn't speak up either.

Which made me more mad, we're supposed to be grown up women and men, if somebody wasn't invited to a big dinner like that I would raise the question why not!

 

 

 

I feel like I have to dump all of them out of my circle of trust because I can't trust them having my best interest at heart.

I suspect it has something to do with the woman I fell out with 2 years ago but nobody would éver dare to say something bad about her. Just doesn't happen.

People out of our circle have spoken about how they don't trust her though, I'm not seeing ghosts, I trust my own judgement enough as well to know something is really fishy about her but I just let it slide these days.

 

 

The thing is, I work in this bar and have to see these people every other day.

This is a temporary situation as I am still searching for a 'serious' employment but still, I'm quite torn on what to do.

I need to stick up for myself (I had a LOT of trouble doing so in the past) but I guess I don't know how to do it without bursting into tears or getting really upset.

 

 

I tend to run away from situations like this as I truly don't know why I hadn't been invited (and clearly it wasn't the first time but this time I was really confronted with it, I think they thought I would've gone home seeing they weren't at the party, but I didn't..)

I mean, I asked some of them why and they came with this lame answer that it 'wasn't intentional' which I find an extreme case of gaslighting and I told them not to insult my intelligence with an explanation like that.

You don't NOT invite someone to a dinner this big and this scheduled and then tell this person that she shouldn't feel bad as it was all a big coincidence she didn't know about it AT ALL.

I don't buy that.

 

Does anybody have some advice for me, would I be right to once and for all completely dump these people?

[bulletproof]

 

But, I'm a person who is not afraid to speak my mind and I got praise for that in the past as well as resentment but I really can't hold my tongue when I see things that aren't right.

I'm allergic to back stabbing, hypocrites and manipulators and I understand why that would make some people uncomfortable but those are not the people I would want close to me anyway.

 

You say you "can't really hold your tongue..." but the reality is not that you can't, but you won't. Maybe people are turned off by this. You say it's when you see things that "aren't right," but who's to say that you always know what's right and what's not? That's a pretty big position to put yourself in.

 

I think at this point, your best bet is to lay low and keep looking for another job. Don't confront people over things like invitations to dinner. The fact is that they aren't obligated to invite anyone they don't want to. It's a little rude to leave someone out, but maybe they have their reasons.

 

You don't have to actively drop them as friends, but maybe you should just go to work to work, be polite and nice to people, and let this blow over.

[staysound]

Don't confront people over things like invitations to dinner. The fact is that they aren't obligated to invite anyone they don't want to. It's a little rude to leave someone out, but maybe they have their reasons.

 

You don't have to actively drop them as friends, but maybe you should just go to work to work, be polite and nice to people, and let this blow over.

 

I completely agree, and when I say I find it hard to hold my tongue I didn't imply that I'm ever not polite or nice to people.

I'm talking more about defending myself or any other who feels somebody wronged them. I'm not presenting myself as a judge either, what I mean is that I'm an overall honest person and always try to keep it real, something like that, english is not my mother language, so I hope you understand what I mean by this.

 

If it was a 'little' rude then I should only just be a little upset? Is there a scale in rudeness when it comes from people you trust and is not being invited to a big dinner where everybody was present only just a little rude? Maybe I'm overly sensitive here? I don't know, really, that's why I'm asking.

And they have their reasons but aren't 'friends' suppose to respect you enough to clarify those reasons and not leave somebody in thin air, especially when nothing (not that I am aware of) happened?

 

I know not everybody can like or love me, but there are plenty people in this group that have not so great traits, some of them are downright obnoxious but we accept each other and they get asked to these kind of social meetings all the time.

 

I just don't get it. I asked the people I consider real friends and they couldn't answer me yet did say that they felt weird about me not being included.

I want to learn and improve myself where I possibly need to, but I can't do it without getting honest feedback.

I feel like I'm being sabotaged but I'm not sure and that's why I consider to just leave them all together. I don't have the strength anymore, or the energy to question myself on a daily basis just over who I am. I haven't done anything wrong and if I did then why don't people tell me face to face.

 

I can't do this anymore.

[SpottiOtti]

When you say that you had been blocked out of activities, was that happening frequently?

 

Mostly the sense that I get from your post is one of feeling excluded and being hurt by it. There is nothing wrong with you; just sometimes stuff like this happens. It's happened to me too, and it does hurt, especially if you don't fully understand why. Sometimes it takes time and distance from a situation to gain clarity as to what your role was, and what you could change about yourself to improve.

 

My advice would be, don't let them see you sweat. Don't honor them any further by allowing them to see they've hurt you. Keep a bright face on at work and kill 'em with kindness, and more information will present itself sooner or later.

 

There's nothing wrong with feeling hurt by exclusion. I don't think you are overreacting at all. Keep your head up, you can do this. >

[bulletproof]

There are many points in life when you aren't going to get feedback. It's then up to you to retrace your steps and see where you might have made some bad moves. For instance, you say you had a falling out with one member of the group, and you think this is influencing other members of the group. What was it about? Was the falling out worth it? Was there something you could have done differently to handle the disagreement before it became so big? You say she feels wronged; have you looked at her perspective on this and thought about why she might have felt that way?

 

You may want to make amends with her first and then see if that changes anything. Chances are that others just don't want to deal with the disagreement with you two, or be a part of it in any way. That's their right; they don't owe anyone explanations or invitations to dinner.

 

Bottom line is, the only person you can change is you. You can't change everyone else. So if something about you is turning this group off, then think about ways you can change. It may just come down to choosing your battles wisely.

[staysound]

thank you SpottiOtti, it's good to hear from somebody who found herself at the same end as I do now & that it's ok to feel hurt by it because I really feel gaslighted by a lot of these people, like I don't have a right or am acting silly just by feeling hurt. It's a cycle almost, they exclude me, I feel hurt, then I get to feel guilty about being hurt and I blame that for not being invited again. This wasn't the first time I wasn't invited but it was the first time they didn't try to cover it up and I was confronted with it so blatantly.

 

The thing is Bulletproof, if there is somebody in this group who is willing to do a lot of introspection, use a lot of different technics of approaching people to better myself, if there is anybody in this group who is honest about *not* being perfect, it's me.

 

I'm not going to elaborate all too much about the incident that happened (two years ago!) but I'll just say that it was downright outrageous and I was in no way to blame for any of it. It was a situation where I did what was the best for everybody involved or tried to, and after two years it's even more clear now that that is in fact exactly what I did.

Although it was a really difficult decision to make at the time.

She however took advantage back then of an already painful situation, ill advised me in private, lied about how I would have been the one who ignored her all the while I was trying hard to reach out to her, and then pretended for months to be *hurt* by me.

After one year of hanging low in this group and focussing on other activities, myself (I went into therapy as well to get to know myself better which I thought I did anyway..) and new friends, I reached out to her one evening when she and I were in the same venue.

I tried to make amends by saying what's done is done, trying to get her to acknowledge that she had lied about my behaviour without pushing her (!), she said she couldn't remember clearly.

The next day she told some of the other friends that I had said we would never be friends again and that's that.

Which I didn't. I told her we would be forever disagreeing and I would never agree on doing or saying things I hadn't done.

But she had to make me look like a villain again.

Anyway, I stay clear from her for most of the time, we cordially speak to one another here and there but that's it.

I do however suspect that any minor negative remark from somebody about me she clings on to, and then manipulates the atmosphere of it becoming a major thing.

That with a combination of never mentioning my name when organizing activities or suddenly 'not being able to make it' when I am included and organizing something else at the same day. Things like that.

 

But no real proof of that so far, people say it's all a big big coincidence, and oh boy, a lot of those coincidences seem to happen to our group of people.

 

 

I took a year, one whole year to take steps back and look where I could have behaved differently and tried real hard to get a clear vision but I still end up feeling like

really, I hadn't done anything wrong. I might not always have the most diplomatic reactions to unfair situations (and I think a lot or people would lose their cool) but merely reacting to a situation and being excluded because of it seems overly harsh.

And by not diplomatic I don't mean any drama, screaming or crying just speaking up and telling it like it is on my side of things.

I had training to speak in public, I know how to keep my cool even when I feel like a tornado is crushing my insides.

 

Maybe I will sound arrogant by saying this, but I'm so tired of looking within myself for all the reasons people do stuff to me, I've had days even weeks where I really didn't like myself anymore because if I have to look within everytime somebody else acts like an *ss towards me and claim it's because of something I have said that wasn't diplomatic, I should just shut up and stay home all together.

And I do have successfully met other people and I have other -out of this circle- friendships and these people act completely normal with me!

But they're more one on one and I do like doing things with a larger number of people. I have known them now for 10 years, I have good memories too you know!

I really just don't get it.

 

I think if something is turning this group off and THEY can't be open and honest about it, it's no longer time to look within, it's time I acknowledge where I'm not cared about properly and it's time to get out.

I really do want to choose my battles wisely, and it really hurts that I'm sort of a black sheep that seemingly gets the blame for any negativity happening to them (that's how it feels around them sometimes, but again, I'm not sure!!)

but I'm just tired of the battle all together.

It makes me feel sad, very tired and it feeds my growing mistrust towards them in high speed.

I probably do come accross as paranoia by now because they keep denying anything's wrong and I keep feeling like I'm not wanted.

Like, when there's a party or some exhibition or something they will all text each other and I end up going as well, but completely on my own initiative. They don't usually act as if I'm not wanted on occasions like that, but they never reached out to me in the first place. Stuff like that.

Or the fact that we always save up money for birthdays in the group, large amounts sometimes and I always chip in, always, my name is on every birthday card they give and receive, but when it was my birthday I got one card from one person of the group and the rest was no where to be seen in the bar at that day and they said afterwards it was because I didn't throw a party for my birthday. I mean, what?

 

You know, when I write it down like this I really don't know why I bother so much anymore. This isn't my idea of friendship and love and care and respect, and even after 10 years of shared memories, I should just let go.

 

So I guess I answered my own question here, I'm still not sure about it, and I know I will stay civil and friendly towards them, I'll just not try and be a part of any of their activities anymore.

 

Something about lowering my expectations so I can't get disappointed.

[bulletproof]

I tried to make amends by saying what's done is done, trying to get her to acknowledge that she had lied about my behaviour without pushing her (!), she said she couldn't remember clearly.

The next day she told some of the other friends that I had said we would never be friends again and that's that.

Which I didn't. I told her we would be forever disagreeing and I would never agree on doing or saying things I hadn't done.

 

This isn't really "making amends," in my opinion. Perhaps if you'd stopped at the "what's done is done"?

 

If you see the same thing happening with others in the future, then maybe it's time to reevaluate.

Keep in mind also that introspection doesn't mean having to hate yourself. You could just think about actions and consequences in a very detached way. What behavior causes what outcome? I would also say that not one person in the world is 100% blame-free in arguments, in my opinion. Even if the breakdown is 1% vs. 99%, we all play our part.

 

Either way, if you feel like these people are toxic for you, then it's best to move on from them.

[staysound]

If I had been truly over it I probably would have stopped at the 'what's done is done' and maybe I made the mistake of trying to put it behind us too soon.

But the elephant in the room was pretty big and I got tired of the situation not evolving to a 'live and let live'.

I do however also believe that I care more (on a deeper level) about it than she does, meaning, I don't think I'm the only one she feels the need to compensate her lack of self esteem with by saying things that aren't true and just messing with other people's mind really, I think for her it's more of a lifestyle and therefore not such a big deal even,

and I should leave it behind me, I'm aware of that.

Especially since I think (I think..) I know the true root of her problem, the reason for her doing what she did with me, which doesn't make it right in my opinion, but still...

If I feel like the bigger person here, maybe I should learn how to act like one.. thus, leaving it behind me completely.

 

that said, I just find it difficult sometimes when I get the feeling I'm being ignored by them as a group.

I do search for reasons inside myself, behavior that would put people off, and I believe I sometimes am obnoxious as well, but I think with friends, you get to be like that sometimes you know? (without hurting anybody's feelings, let me be clear here... just being a little annoying like talking too much, I tend to do that, or being stuck on a broken heart, have had this happen last year as well, stuff like that.. I do apologize when I notice I am being like this and most of the time people tell me it's ok and I'm being too self aware and shouldn't apologize.

Maybe they're lying to 'spare my feelings' but excluding me on other levels? Maybe that is a reason for it...I don't know..)

 

Other times however I feel like there is this code amongst people that no one ever really explained to me, or taught me how to use.

I was quite naive as a child and have been heavily bullied by girls only and I find it hard to 'read' them.

I misread so many things as a child, good things in stead of bad things and vice versa.

I never really learned how to trust my own judgement, when girls bully another girl (or person) they do it so psychologically, it's scary sometimes.

So usually I don't read them at all or read too much into things. I tried real hard working on this, alone and in therapy, but I think it will be a life long struggle..

I'm aware of that. But I try to keep it to myself for pretty much most of the time and work things out myself and usually I end up being ok without anyone knowing what I struggled with. And I have successful women friendships as well, just not in group form.

 

I only speak up when I find it pretty obvious I'm allowed to be angry or upset. I got a lot more mellow in feeling angry in the first place but I really felt like this was a true case of exclusion and not getting a valid reason why I wasn't invited to this dinner still bugs me tremendously.

 

Today somebody of the group (the oldest guy friend in this group) made a genuine effort of inviting me to an exclusive party.

He could have asked anybody as he has tons of good friends but he asked me and I think he feels like he has to make up a little for last sunday.

Even if this isn't the case it's still a very nice feeling he invited me and eases my hurt feelings a lot.

It doesn't fix my doubts about them as a group but it's nice to be 'seen' by him.

 

(Sorry I make my comments this long and detailed but strangely it really helps me see some things more clearer writing them down like this and knowing someone will read it, or hoping they will. When I write things down only for me to read I get all 'lost in translation' sometimes..)

 

Anyway, thank you Bulletproof for commenting this far, it feels good to get some real objective thoughts on this matter.