When your ex contacted you

[Reflective82]

12 years and never engaged?? I don't know your story but the fact she is engaged now....do you think that was part of the issue? Personally if a relationship wasn't progressing to marriage after about 2 years I'd start to question it...

[nfperception]

12 years and never engaged?? I don't know your story but the fact she is engaged now....do you think that was part of the issue? Personally if a relationship wasn't progressing to marriage after about 2 years I'd start to question it...

 

Agreed.

[LAMBS4LIONS]

I completely agree with you. We started dating when we were 14 years old and due to me being in the military we had a LTR for a while. I may have waited too long to finally commit to her but I always assured her that I loved her and wanted to be with her. I am a very driven and motivated person and I wanted to build something for my ex and I. I wanted to establish a career and gather some money to give us the best possible chance to succeed in life. Since my ex didn't really have any other relationships she believed all of those stupid Hollywood movies about "prince charming and the one". She truly believed that if you were with your "soulmate" you would never argue or get mad at each other and that everyday would be blissful. As much as I tried to dissuade her from those beliefs....I couldn't. I still love the girl after all this time and probably always will but I am glad that at the moment of truth, I gave her all that I could.

12 years and never engaged?? I don't know your story but the fact she is engaged now....do you think that was part of the issue? Personally if a relationship wasn't progressing to marriage after about 2 years I'd start to question it...

[allcity]

Personally if a relationship wasn't progressing to marriage after about 2 years I'd start to question it...

 

No offence, but you do realise that marriage is not even remotely a sign of commitment, loyalty or that a relationship will last, right? It's just a romantic gesture, a piece of paper, a ring and a party...nothing more than that!

 

You can be totally committed to a life-long relationship without being married. And you can be married and still have zero commitment or faithfulness in your relationship.

 

I never cease to be amazed at how many people still believe that marriage means anything in this day and age, even in the face of all the divorce stats and the amount of married people that are miserable and/or cheating.

 

In a way it's kinda sweet that people are still able to believe in marriage but when it leads to ultimatums like this, it crosses the line into too much delusion, self-sabotage and unrealistic expectations of what the whole thing really means.

[iam42]

agreed, allcity! marriages are most meaningful for legal benefits and children. they no longer indicate the forever commitment it takes for a couple to last. forever is made in retrospect (meaning you've achieved it by doing it) - not in advance...

[LovesMusic]

12 years and never engaged?? I don't know your story but the fact she is engaged now....do you think that was part of the issue? Personally if a relationship wasn't progressing to marriage after about 2 years I'd start to question it...

 

This, sadly, is why there is probably so many divorces

[sharky988]

If someone refuses to marry you after several years together, that's a HUGE red flag for most people.

 

Sure, marriage doesn't guarantee a lifelong commitment and never-ending happiness.... but a flat-out refusal to marry someone indicates there's a lack of commitment on some level.

 

That's how I always saw it, anyway. I'd never stay with someone who said they wouldn't want to marry me!

[LAMBS4LIONS]

If someone refuses to marry you after several years together, that's a HUGE red flag for most people.

 

Sure, marriage doesn't guarantee a lifelong commitment and never-ending happiness.... but a flat-out refusal to marry someone indicates there's a lack of commitment on some level.

 

That's how I always saw it, anyway. I'd never stay with someone who said they wouldn't want to marry me!

 

Sharky, do you mind if I send you a PM?

[allcity]

I'd never stay with someone who said they wouldn't want to marry me!

 

So you'd rather guarantee the relationship ends right now, rather than take the risk that it might end some time in the future?! Which is a risk for anyone, married or not!

 

And all based on nothing more than your own idea of what someone else might be thinking or feeling? Unless of course they show lack of love, good treatment or commitment in other areas.

 

Without wanting to hijack this thread, I'd love to know why you think this is a good way of thinking. It seems common in many women I've met, but never any men, and it seems such odd logic.

 

It's basically saying that you want to leave someone that "isn't committing to you" based on nothing more than them not making a romantic and legal gesture that can easily be reneged anyway.

 

I'm always slightly surprised that so many grown women still hold marriage up as this rock-solid, fairy-tale sign of commitment, when it so clearly isn't anymore.

[sharky988]

If a man I was involved with told me he didn't see himself marrying me -- no, wasn't THRILLED at the idea of marrying me??!

 

I'd dump him.

 

(And yeah, I've been married -- for many years -- so I get that it doesn't last forever in reality.)

[sharky988]

Sharky, do you mind if I send you a PM?

 

Of course I don't mind.

[Reflective82]

I disagree allcity in some ways.

 

Yes marriage does not guarantee the partnership will last, but if someone won't marry you, it to me says they are not committed enough and aren't sure you are the one. Marriage is a committment under law to spend your lives together and a legal recognition that you are bound as partners. It's delusional to think unmarried couples have the same status.

 

I fell for all this "it's just a piece of paper" stuff with my ex....and we broke up because guess what, the fact he didn't want to marry me meant he didn't love me enough.

 

There ARE a small number of people who don't want to get married for personal reasons, but the majority of people will be married. If two people both agree they don't want to get married that's fine- but for most, if one wants to and the other doesn't, that will be the end of the relationship

[Reflective82]

Ah ok, if you started dating at 14 that is different then.....so ignore me

[Reflective82]

well LovesMusic, it may be easy for men to date for years and years and then choose a woman 5 years younger or more to settle down with, but unfortunately us women don't have decades to wait, and most want to be married before we have children, so spending 5 years with one man with no committment can be a waste....as I know

[allcity]

@sharky988

If a guy actually said he didn't see himself marrying YOU specifically, rather than he just wasn't into marriage period, then of course it totally makes sense to leave him. That goes without saying.

 

It's the people that will leave an otherwise great person that loves them and wants to be with them, just because they don't believe in marriage, that blow my mind. It's such an insecure and short-sighted way to think.

 

If marriage is really important to a person, then sure it makes sense to find someone that feels the same way. But to throw away someone great that you've already got for such a silly reason is ridiculous.

 

All marriage means is that you're prepared to sign on the dotted line that says "I want to be with you forever". It's the grandest romantic gesture. Unfortunately the divorce rates tell the rest of the story.

 

All power to those that feel the need to get married but IMO the days of frowning on unmarried people and children born out of wedlock are dead. Some people just continue to be bound by those dated social rules.

 

@Reflective82

Great points. But when one person wants to be married but honestly can't say why, other than it's what they've been taught is the 'right' thing to do, then that's when there's a problem.

 

I've been there. I had all kinds of valid reasons why I didn't want to marry (none of which had anything to do with me not wanting her for the rest of my life) and she just had a belief that she 'should' be married.

 

And she's been unhappy and single ever since she left me all those years ago. Was it worth it?

 

Anyway, excuse the thread-jacking OP.

[Reflective82]

The thing that a lot of men don't get allcity, and I'm not saying your ex was right to leave, is the huge biological and social/emotional pressure a lot of women feel about their age. You hear and see on this forum a lot about women who stay with their guy for years, and he dumps them in their late twenties and then they are left feeling stressed as they are dating in their 30s and want a baby. This isn't an excuse to force marriage in a relationship that isn't right but it's why women are more focused on it and ruthlessin getting out if it isn't going to happen.

 

Maybe your reasons were valid....but if marriage is important to her she wouldn't have been happy with you, and also resentment would have grown as she would have been hurt.

 

Also, as a woman I woud never have children if the guy wouldn't marry me, because you are not financially protected if you split up. The woman's career does suffer in that you have to take a break and then often work part time, marriage gives the woman protection as the courts take this into account if the couple divorce. If you aren't married, you are only entitled to child support and have to struggle on your own working full time to support yourself.

 

I do agree people should know why they want to be married, but even if they don't, a lot of the time these men who say they don't want to be married, will probably find someone younger and get married and the woman who has spnt all those years with him will feel v bitter.....I don't believe u will never marry

[sharky988]

I predict that when you're really in love enough to want to be with someone for the rest of your life, and getting married would make HER happy, you'll be fine with it.

 

Sure, part of it is about having kids, legal rights, etc. But I'm not having anymore kids and I'd STILL expect a relationship to lead to marriage because it's an emotional commitment, not just a legal and financial one. If my man wasn't more interested in making me happy -- if he DIDN'T love me enough to want to spend the rest of his life with me -- if some rigid belief system meant more to him than I did? I'd be SOOOO outta there.

[allcity]

More great points from you both. I hadn't even thought of the child support thing. Typical guy I guess. It's not a very romantic way to go into a marriage but it sure is a practical and very smart way to go into it.

 

And as for me never marrying, I'm sure you're right. My family always snort when I say this stuff and they just laugh and say "Yeah…we'll see"

 

Thanks for the comments. Great points and some real eye-openers that I totally hadn't thought of.

[Reflective82]

Typical guy indeed

 

I agree that isn't a very romantic aspect of marriage but I do think there are practical aspects that need to be considered as well as the romantic ones

 

I once read a great quote that says 'love cures commitment phobia'. Maybe you won't get married who knows....but I wouldn't bet on it

[Mike80]

Greatest post of all time

 

This is why Ill never be in a relationship with an American woman again. Ill hook up with em, but thats it. When Im ready to settle down, Im going to Brazil or somewhere in South America and finding a docile, good natured woman that speaks no English and hasnt been tainted by American female habits/needs/wants.

[Mike80]

as far as the topic...last time we spoke was April 2nd

 

We've been apart for over 5 months now. Im at the stage where I honestly dont dwell on if we'll ever see each other or speak again. Im doing just fine. (In fact....go listen to Boyz 2 Mens "Doin Just Fine" song; the lyrics convey my mindstate perfectly.)

[Nightdriver]

I hadn't even thought of the child support thing.

 

I may be wrong, but I think the child support is sought after anyway, if you're the real father.

 

Like Mike80 did, I was going to quote your earlier post with a "greatest post ever" type response.

 

Don't backtrack now.

[allcity]

No back-tracking here...it's just that my BS detector picks up my own BS just as keenly and I'm always open to learning from others!

 

I still stand by what I said about marriage being little more than a grand romantic gesture that too many people think they 'need'. But I also can't say for sure that it's a gesture I wouldn't make one day if it felt right.

 

Hypocritical? Contradictory? Maybe! But hey, I'm just as clueless as the next man and am figuring this all out as I go

[Reilly2856]

@Mike80: " This is why Ill never be in a relationship with an American woman again. Ill hook up with em, but thats it. When Im ready to settle down, Im going to Brazil or somewhere in South America and finding a docile, good natured woman that speaks no English and hasnt been tainted by American female habits/needs/wants."

 

Not every "American" woman is going to want marriage...and not every "South American/Brazilian" woman is going to be "docile". Being docile does not guarantee good nature...lol. I think what you are seeking is an subordinate woman...why? Maybe you are afraid of having a woman who can think for herself in your life...too much for you to handle?

 

If you want a woman that does not have any American female habits/needs/wants....it would only be fair for you to also surrender your male habits/needs/wants at the door before pursuing a relationship with her. Otherwise, you're being a hypocrite

[LovesMusic]

well LovesMusic, it may be easy for men to date for years and years and then choose a woman 5 years younger or more to settle down with, but unfortunately us women don't have decades to wait, and most want to be married before we have children, so spending 5 years with one man with no committment can be a waste....as I know

 

If women made more thought out commitments like marriage, then they'd know who they are marrying and not complain about how "bored" they get or whatever the reason is most women divorce (most divorces are filed by women). I'm not blaming women, I'm just defending the male stand point. Women put such a necessity on marriage. Your statement sounds like you use men for a father for children, rather than choose one as a partner for life. Marriage should be about you and the person, not the family you may or may not have. We aren't hand bags!