Why signals?

[corvidae]

Why do women use signals? I don't mean why do women use signals at all, because I know that many 'signals' are subconscious and that in certain circumstances 'signals' can be useful. I'm also not saying that women (and men) shouldn't use their bodies to communicate, because, apparently, 80% of communication in non-verbal. What I am wondering is why women rely on signals. I mean, every article I read advising men on how to 'get' women says that women use very subtle signals to show interest, and that us men are just so dense that we don't get them, and that's part of what we do wrong. Well firstly I'd like to point out that if it's well known men can't read signals then why, oh why, do women use them! If I tried to chat someone up in French when I knew they couldn't speak it, then complained when they didn't respond, I'd deserve a clap around the head, yet women seem happy to employ this strategum all the time. Secondly, and probably more importantly, why rely of signals in the first place? Do women lose the power of speech in the presense of men they find attractive? Do their legs suddenly cease to work? Are they, in short, rendered completely immobile only able to communicate through subtle movements of their eyebrows and feet, desperate to get a message but unable to actually just say it; a bit like playing charades. Here's an idea for a signal, then next time you see someone you like, go and talk to them.

[OceanEyes]

I don't think women use signals intentionally to make you mad or to confuse you corvidae. Also, if I have some kind of attraction for a guy, I usually will make an effort to talk to him. I will rarely, or even never, come right out and say, "I like you man". It takes the fun out of getting to know someone, and creates these expectations that I don't care to create.

 

Guys - it's not often that a woman will come right out and tell you that she's interested in you. If you're interested in her, why not just strike up some conversation of your own? Don't rely on her subtle 'signals', because you may misenterpret them.

[CarterJonas]

I have learned it is just better to ask someone out. Now when she says yes you will feel good, won't you. As part of the dating scene remember that a few girls will say no as well, for reasons such as they are already in relationships, don't want to be in any relationship or maybe don't want to be in a relationship with you. Nothing wrong in this.

[corvidae]

I am aware that I'm focusing on only one small aspect of the dating scene, and that I am generalising a little, but you have to admit that typically women do rely on subtle hints and gestures and expect men to make the bold moves. This isn't just my imagination. Have a random look through the online men's/women's advice columns on this subject. The vast majority talk about the dating scene in terms of men approaching women, and the advice often centres around 'when to know to approach.' Leaving advice columns aside (which are, after all, just one person's opinion) this trend seems to be exist in the real world also (at least from my experience). I suppose what I really want to do is to try to highlight some things that women do wrong in the dating scene. There seem to be numerous articles and debates about how men should improve their 'tactics', but none about women. I suppose I'm just trying to address the balance of that particular view, so unfortunately my little tirade may seem out of context. Oh well.

[baciatutti]

Well Corvidae...I think that you shouldn't worry so much about women's mixed or overly-subtle signals as much as guys' overly-passive state.

 

Like you said:

 

typically women do rely on subtle hints and gestures and expect men to make the bold moves

 

And even though it's 2004, I think men should make the bold moves. Call me old-fashioned when it comes to the dating scene if you want, but many girls think this way so don't feel enraged by this.

 

Be open about your feelings. Be confident. Confidence is so sexy! What's the worst that can happen? Someone rejects you?! So What? Bring on the next!

 

Ciao!

[corvidae]

Sorry, I'm not 'enraged' at all, just warming to the debate. But this is exactly what I mean! In a couple of posts we've now shifted to discussing 'what is wrong with men' with comments such as

 

"I think that you shouldn't worry so much about women's mixed or overly-subtle signals as much as guys' overly-passive state.".

 

You see! The problem is women don't understand a lot of men. It's not entirely your fault, it doesn't get discussed. Men never want to have conversations where they admit that they can't get women because it seems 'unmanly'. Put a group of guys together and it'll be all about how great they are with women, and how they can get any woman they want. Women don't understand because they're women and it's different for them. But aren't women supposed to be empathic? So how do you (women) think it feels like for a man to be told that confidence is 'sexy' and that you need to be confident? It's terrible! Because what if you aren't confident! Confidence doesn't grow on trees. You don't wake up one day and say "hey, I know, I'll be confident today." Confidence is built and nurtured, and it can be damaged and broken down. And how do you think it feels to be rejected say, five times in a row? How confident are you going to feel approaching girl number 6? I've been called both ugly and attractive, so which do I believe? To hear someone say "Just approach someone, get rejected move on...no big deal." Of course it's a big deal! How would you, as a woman, feel if the last three guys you liked weren't interested? How would you feel if you spent ages getting ready then going for a night out and having no one look at you or pay the blindest bit of attention? Wouldn't you question yourself? Wouldn't a little insecurity creep in? Just a little?

 

Listen. In my experience women, even ones that aren't the standard idea of attractive, get positive reinforcement all the time. A short fat girl I knew (who also had pretty prominent moustache) was 'chatted up' on several separate occasions in the year I knew her. My reasonably attractive housemate has had about four men declare their intentions (so to speak) in as many months. And yet these women were still a little insecure and questioned their weight, their attractiveness etc... Now tell me, how would women feel if they had no positive reinforcement. Ever. Never ever ever. No, not even a little bit. For some guys that's how it is. And we can't complain because that makes us GAY, because it's GAY to have emotions. But how are we (men) supposed to judge ourselves? If we present ourselves to women (as you do by making the first move) are we not placing ourselves for jugdement? Will not the consequences affect your self-esteem? Women may not know this, but there are a lot of men who have been rejected a bunch of times in a row and have now given up, and because women never show interest they will never be redeemed. Women lose out because these guys are now 'off the market' so to speak. You will never know of them. Look at my avatar. I'm not attractive, but I'm not ugly or deformed, yet I have never, in my life, been given a reason to have confidence with women, so why should I have any?

[Lily04]

First off, looking at your avatar you are quite attractive, it's just a confidence issue. I'm not going to denigrate that & say to grow some of it & fast, but it's really just low self-esteem that's probably getting you down. You're attractive, and seem like you have a good personality, so objectively it really shouldn't be that hard.

 

Secondly, as a girl if there's a guy I feel some sort of attraction to (even if it's just in a friendly way - i.e. if I'm not attracted to the guy sexually, but just interested in as a friend), I'll usually try to strike up a conversation. Getting their number is always a bit harder though..

 

But I also don't like to just go up to a random person & say 'I like you.' I like to build up to it gradually..it's easier that way. So it takes time..be patient.

 

Anyways, good luck with everything, I'm goign to bed..

 

lily04

[baciatutti]

Hi, I agree with lily. You have to be patient and build up to it gradually. When there are "sparks", you usually (not always), but oftentimes, feel them and it shouldn't be so hard to go with it from there.

 

I know confidence doesn't grow on trees... but sometimes when you "pretend" to feel confident, repeat it to yourself a few times, and believe it, it actually becomes a part of who you are and how you are perceived by others. This takes time, of course. But even though I agree that it is extremely hard to recuperate from several rejections in a row, we should "try" to take them lightly and not to heart. Many times those girls or guys who reject others are not even worth pursuing.

 

Hang in there... its not a one-sided issue...

 

.. and the beat goes on