Stole my little brothers bike

[winchester3]

My little brother and his friend goofed up today and got both their bikes stolen. It's completely his fault and I'm pissed at him. I then got to thinking about thieves, what kind of parent would raise their kid to steal stuff. Or at least teach them the difference between right and wrong so that they would know better not to steal stuff. There's so many words right now i want to use to describe my frustration, all of which are not allowed here. FRIK!!!!

 

I cant change the fact that thieves exist but maybe we could change the punishment for them. The more extreme the better in my mind, first offense and you lose the baby finger off your good hand. Second would be half your thumb off the good hand followed by branding on the back of the same hand. If by then their lesson has not been learned then they should lose an ear. Accompanied with each punishment would be a very in depth personal lecture about why they steal, make them understand that it's wrong and should never be done followed by the dismemberment so they don't forget. On top of that everyone would know of these laws/rules and be able to see the thief right off the bat, hard to hide missing fingers. I think that would also work as a preventative by setting such a hard example.

 

What are your thoughts? In my enraged mind set this is the best i could come up with.

[waveseer]

This method has been tried with mixed results. It seems the people who were going to outgrow the desire to steal did so even with a missing hand, and the people who weren't going to outgrow the desire to steal simply enlisted others to steal for them even when they had no hands remaining.

[Speranza]

What you describe is Middle Eastern justice (in some countries) or Middle Ages justice (in the UK).

 

I think you have a very black and white view, first of how to be sure you have the right person, and secondly, in thinking that a stiff lecture will change these people.

 

I work with kids who are hardened thieves by the time they are 8. By then it is hardwired, nature, nurture, whatver (I think SOME of it has to be nature because so often you get one thief in a family of honest people).

 

To be honest, I think we are better not sinking to their level by committing brutal mutilation, although I can understand your frustration and anger. If only we had a magic wand to stop all this - however, we don't. In some cases I do, on a bad day, feel like cutting bits off the parents who let them get that way.

 

But I'm trying to be a grown-up...

[I_Speak_Jive]

Sure, great idea. Next time you jaywalk, you lose a toe. If you do it again, we chop off your whole foot and we give you a tattoo on your forehead. That way you will learn to respect rules and everybody will know you can't go around putting other people's lives at risk because you cannot be bothered to wait until the green light turns on.

 

In NO advanced, democratic, civilised country (except the one you live in) does the state have the right to inflict mutilation or death upon its citizens' bodies. Freedom means a lot more than having three McDonalds around every corner and the right to put a piece of paper inside a ballot box every four years.

[BellaStranger]

Sure, great idea. Next time you jaywalk, you lose a toe. If you do it again, we chop off your whole foot and we give you a tattoo on your forehead. That way you will learn to respect rules and everybody will know you can't go around putting other people's lives at risk because you cannot be bothered to wait until the green light turns on.

 

In NO advanced, democratic, civilised country (except the one you live in) does the state have the right to inflict mutilation or death upon its citizens' bodies. Freedom means a lot more than having three McDonalds around every corner and the right to put a piece of paper inside a ballot box every four years.

 

Very VERY well said!!

 

I can understand your frustration- I have had my phone stolen- twice- and my purse stolen out of my bag with my entire 2 weeks wages in it (in cash)!! Each time I was ANGRY to say the very least- and if I'd caught them then and there, I'd have gladly chopped there hands off. But beyond the anger and frustration there is the fact that we live in a civilised society. I also just looked at myself in these situations and learnt from it- both times my phone went, I was being careless- and what was I doing walking around with 2 weeks wages in my purse anyway?? Maybe your brother need and his friend need to learn to be more careful with their possessions.

 

Besides this- in your form of justice, how would you deal with the wrongfully accused? Those that were set up? The woman who steals a loaf of bread to feed her family because they live in poverty? The children 'hired' to steal because they have no one to protect them?

[Dragunov-21]

In NO advanced, democratic, civilised country (except the one you live in) does the state have the right to inflict mutilation or death upon its citizens' bodies. Freedom means a lot more than having three McDonalds around every corner and the right to put a piece of paper inside a ballot box every four years.

 

And yet, those freedoms seem to be lacking a little, don't you think? Which is actually pretty relevant to the topic at hand - when you cease to make people responsible for their actions, this is exactly what you end up with.

 

I've also got to laugh at the idea that you're solidly against hurting someone directly as punishment, but that sticking them in a prison where they are often attacked/injured, and/or lose touch with society, is much better.

[BellaDonna]

My little brother and his friend goofed up today and got both their bikes stolen. It's completely his fault and I'm pissed at him. I then got to thinking about thieves, what kind of parent would raise their kid to steal stuff. Or at least teach them the difference between right and wrong so that they would know better not to steal stuff. There's so many words right now i want to use to describe my frustration, all of which are not allowed here. FRIK!!!!

 

 

I'm sorry that happened. It sucks.

 

Although I don't know what violence and dismemberment would accomplish.

 

Punishing a petty crime with a form of sadism and physical torture isn't really going to help anyone in the long run. No bike is worth a human being losing a limb.

 

Who knows why the bike was stolen. In most cases when children/youth steal from other children it is because they live in poverty and don't have the means to acquire a bike. I'm not saying stealing is right AT ALL but I understand the underlying dynamic of why it exists in society.

 

If a troubled youth steals a bike- IMO their best chance for becoming a productive member of society is to receive a strict penalty which will force them to give back to the community that they stole from. Maybe they need to be working at a local bike shop repairing bike for free for a year or handing out meals at the homeless shelter.

 

They will never be productive with their fingers cut off. They will just be thieves, with less fingers, that now also want to murder people because of PTSD. I can't even imagine what physical punishment would do to someone who was FALSELY accused of theft.

 

OP, I am pretty sure you were just venting. (I hope)

[Speranza]

A few years ago my house and car were attacked by a young guy who was drunk/stoned. It was a terrifying experience as I woke to hear my door being battered and the car being damaged (a LOT of damage). The police were brilliant, and caught him, and then I was asked whether I wanted to press charges. It was a little scary, but I did.

 

However I was really glad that the punishment turned out to be that he had to pay me £750 in compensation (which I imagine was a HUGE amount for him) and do I think 200 hours Community Service. He actually turned up at my door and apologised, and I told him to use this as a turning point in his life. I hope he has. He took three years to pay off his debt to me, a few pounds a month, but he paid it.

 

Isn't there a phrase in the Bible, "Temper justice with mercy"? If we can't be adult and try to allow these people to change (and no, they may well not) then we just sink into the pit they are standing in...

 

I'm not a 'bleeding heart Liberal' - I am a Liberal I suppose - but I don't think violence is ever the answer to criminal activity. How can it be? If we hang people, what becomes of the hangman (morally)? He has killed. What if he finds he has killed an innocent person?

 

There is no easy answer. Personally I think retaliation is definitely the WRONG answer.

[doityourself]

I would say I agree that parents should raise thier children teach them values, morals, things of that nature, BUT

 

I cant see cutting a kids finger off for stealing, I dont know of any children that havent stolen something in thier lifetime, nor adults for that matter.

[winchester3]

"A lesson learned in blood is a lesson rightful learned" there are so many quotes along those lines and they cant be closer to the truth. Physical ever lasting punishment is a great idea. Sure you get the people who will steal no matter what, life long thieves. But for the guys on the fence about it i think this would change them right quick. Here's an example. For anyone who works with tools, a hammer perhaps. Many times you will make the mistake and accidentally hit a finger with the hammer while nailing things. Chances are you wont learn your lesson until you mangle one of your fingers forever having that scar to remind you to pay attention while wielding hammers. Or in the case of stealing to forever remind you that it's not worth it. Or when they used to brand pirates with an iron back in the day. When you have a big P burned on you everyone will know that you are no good scum and that you should not be trusted. Which would again set an example to any other would be thieves.

 

There is no need for stealing to exist in modern society, none what so ever. The minute they steal something is the minute that they give up their rights to be part of our functioning society. For young children i would be lenient with this law, some children just aren't old enough to comprehend what their doing is wrong, do our best to reshape them and if their still not on the straight and narrow by the age of, lets say 16 then they've made their choice. Why is it that we have to bend around the whims of the few rotten eggs? We're the majority the bad have to live by our rules.

 

As mentioned above with J walking, if your stupid enough to walk out in front of traffic and put your life in danger then so be it. Darwin strikes again! Never ever will you be bigger then a car and win in that head on collision. That's common knowledge not to walk out into traffic passed down by parent to child. There is this general rule to look both ways.

 

I'm not talking about third world countries where if you don't steal that bag of apples your family will starve. They have their own problems to sort out. I'm strictly talking about developed first world nations.

[winchester3]

 

Isn't there a phrase in the Bible, "Temper justice with mercy"? If we can't be adult and try to allow these people to change (and no, they may well not) then we just sink into the pit they are standing in...

 

I'm not a 'bleeding heart Liberal' - I am a Liberal I suppose - but I don't think violence is ever the answer to criminal activity. How can it be? If we hang people, what becomes of the hangman (morally)? He has killed. What if he finds he has killed an innocent person?

 

There is no easy answer. Personally I think retaliation is definitely the WRONG answer.

 

Glad that you got justice in the end. The easiest solution would be to fill in the pit, or get rid of it all together. As for the hang man that's his problem to deal with, we can offer him counseling if and when he needs it.

[doityourself]

I to believe in harsh punishment for harsh crimes. I believe in the death penalty and I also believe in eye for an eye to a point.

 

But I also agree that we learn from our own environment, I believe if your taught to steal then you will steal, if your taught to do drugs then you will do drugs and not fully understand that its wrong because you've have done it and seen it done for so long.

 

Now I'm not saying that you cant learn that its wrong but if you have no one to care enough to teach you then you wont learn. We all make mistakes in our lives and we all hopefully learn from them.

[Speranza]

In my book, 'Kill 'em all' mentality means that we have already SUNK into the pit.

 

I wonder if those of you who are so keen to maim and disable criminals could hand-on-heart say you have never rung in sick when you weren't (stealing from your sompany, in effect), kept change when it was over (stealing from the shop), or cheated on someone (stealing emotions).

 

The trouble with your proposed solution is, it's not a very long step from believing that is appropriate, to believing certain sectors of society shoudln't exist. And we know where that leads.

[doityourself]

In my book, 'Kill 'em all' mentality means that we have already SUNK into the pit.

 

I wonder if those of you who are so keen to maim and disable criminals could hand-on-heart say you have never rung in sick when you weren't (stealing from your sompany, in effect), kept change when it was over (stealing from the shop), or cheated on someone (stealing emotions).

 

The trouble with your proposed solution is, it's not a very long step from believing that is appropriate, to believing certain sectors of society shoudln't exist. And we know where that leads.

 

I agree that this world is turning ugly with our thoughts and our actions.

 

I have stolen, cheat but I have also turned my life around and have done great things to repent myself. I do believe that there some people are just evil, born evil, and should not be able to live among us to hurt, harm or kill anyone or anything.

[winchester3]

In my book, 'Kill 'em all' mentality means that we have already SUNK into the pit.

 

I wonder if those of you who are so keen to maim and disable criminals could hand-on-heart say you have never rung in sick when you weren't (stealing from your sompany, in effect), kept change when it was over (stealing from the shop), or cheated on someone (stealing emotions).

 

The trouble with your proposed solution is, it's not a very long step from believing that is appropriate, to believing certain sectors of society shoudln't exist. And we know where that leads.

 

I do believe that sector of society shouldn't exist. Thieves offer no benefit to society what so ever. The way i read your first sentence there is that you would rather live with the fear of stooping to their (bad) level then deal with the problem? What you describe there is a "Ned Flanders" society, (character from the Simpson) that is not at all what i purpose. Even with the examples you use there is no criminal intent there. If there is criminal intent then yes that would make them a bad person and they should be dealt with.

[Speranza]

Even with the examples you use there is no criminal intent there. If there is criminal intent then yes that would make them a bad person and they should be dealt with.

 

That's really exactly my point. We say "Oh it's not criminal to take a day off work" but in fact it is stealing, we just don't happen to see it that way.

 

A lot of people think taking a bike isn't that big a deal. I'm not saying they're right.

 

The people who see the world in black and white tend to be young and idealistic, and it's how the world has always been. We need that idealism. But I'm less sure we need people happy to chop fingers and hands off!

 

Of course I come from a slightly different culture, over here most people are appalled at the thought of the death penalty, so it's not surprising that we differ in our opinions. That's ok.