Just wondering if being gay is genetic?

[RayKay]

I have never heard that theory either - and my brother was the middle child of both brothers and sisters.

 

My boyfriend and ex were both the oldest of four brothers, and neither of their younger brothers are gay either.

[JadedStar]

I actually performed a mental exercise after my last post to think about smoe of my gay friends and their birth order. None of them were the youngest and ironically almost all of them were the oldest. But that wouldn't prove their is nothing to the theory tho, i guess.

[hektic]

The posts about it being a choice make me laugh. I'd honestly like to know when I woke up one day and was like gee I think I only like men now. If you think about it, why would I or anyone for that matter choose to be gay? Why would I choose a road of bigotry over the "norm".

 

Don't get me wrong times are changing and me being gay now isn't that big of a deal, hell I don't even mind at all. No, I don't scream it to the world with flamboyancy but if someone asks me I don't deny it. Anyway, little of topic here, bottom line is I NEVER chose to be gay, I just am.

[Flux]

I'm not sure if i think its directly genetic.. I have straight parents and come from a straight family, I am not straight. However there may be an indirect link in the genes and DNA that cause us to bat for the other team; not that I'm sayin its a case of bieng wired up wrong, jsut something different perhaps..

 

But then to contradict what I said, I think that people can consciously change there sexuality; on some level I think I did... but it was also something I had little control over; I still do. When I was first questioning I thought 'right' and sat down and spent a week watching all 4 seasons of the L word, thinking right this will change my tune... Turns out it was just like 'Oh, that had the reverse affect'.. and so from there I managed to consciously talk myself into bieng gay... It's weird

 

 

However, I don't believe I was born gay; but I don't believe I chose to be gay either. On the contrary I've spent the last year trying to convince myself I was straight, it didn't work.... Perhaps there was just something in my life that triggered it and changed my orientation along the way...

 

But then I also think its just attraction... just like a girl that doesn't like fat guys or a guy that only likes fat girls; it's not so much a decision just something you are or in some case have dicided to be

[JadedStar]

The posts about it being a choice make me laugh. I'd honestly like to know when I woke up one day and was like gee I think I only like men now. If you think about it, why would I or anyone for that matter choose to be gay? Why would I choose a road of bigotry over the "norm".

 

Don't get me wrong times are changing and me being gay now isn't that big of a deal, hell I don't even mind at all. No, I don't scream it to the world with flamboyancy but if someone asks me I don't deny it. Anyway, little of topic here, bottom line is I NEVER chose to be gay, I just am.

 

I hear ya. Every gay male friend I have always says if they really could choose they would not choose it because of how hard it has made their lives.

[Jonboy582]

Wow thanks for the replies people. And as for the things that happened in the past as well as genes that makes sense. I have a friend and he told me I can't stand women and he believes it is because when he was younger an older girl took him behind the bike shed at school and touched him up.

 

So now he is gay and not attracted to women but says one day he would like to get married and have kids, which confuses me (not gay marriage and adoption).

 

One more thing people say they don't choose to be gay and different. Choosing to be gay I know that does not happen, but many gays choose to be different. By that I mean being camp, speaking differently, running like a girl etc. I guess thats all to do with how they embrace being gay maybe as they are the minority they want to stand out I don't know. Can anyone shine some light on that?

 

Jon

[RayKay]

I don't think they choose to have those mannerisms, I think they choose not to hide them.

 

My brother hid his for many years; when he came out, he showed them.

 

I think showing them has more to do with feeling comfortable with yourself and showing whom you are, than because you "choose" that. You just are choosing not to hide yourself.

 

I don't think you can "control" your voice, or how you run.

 

Some gays show these mannerisms, some don't. It does not make them more or less gay from one another.

 

It's like how I used to be more self conscious of my ideas, but when I became comfortable with myself I expressed them more and that was part of my character. It was always there, just I hide it because I was afraid of criticism and the like.

 

P.S. There are plenty of female runners whom run better than men

 

P.P.S. As for your friend - that would be quite a cruel thing to do to a woman, and really to himself as well.

[Flux]

I think the whole settling down thing isn't too weird

 

I'm a lesbian but I still see myself settling down in the suburbs with a rich husband and a kid... though when I think about it all I hear is myself saying a resounding 'Eww' when thinking about it...

 

Hmmm.. strange lol

[RayKay]

My brother has settled down with his male partner. They are planning on having children via adoption or surrogacy (and getting married in near future).

 

You can still settle down and be true to your sexuality.

[Flux]

I've never really understood butch lesbians. (Well, ok, I understand it, but not really ) I mean, I like men, a lot. But then you see lesbians and they are attracted to women who dress like men and have hair cuts like men, just different genetalia.

 

All for their own... but I do agree with you... maybe its an emotional thing

 

My brother has settled down with his male partner. They are planning on having children via adoption or surrogacy (and getting married in near future).

 

You can still settle down and be true to your sexuality.

 

I agree.. I think the feelings of mine will change over time; I think its because I'm still young and its what I've always been told to do in life :S

 

Though settling down is not something I'm looking to in the near future, I will admit..

 

And fair play to your brother, I hope he'll be very happy

[JadedStar]

As usual a great reply from RayKay. I don't think i can really add much more that she hasn't said. Running and speaking differently are not necessarily something they can help - altho some gay people who don't give a rip and like to mess with society will exaggerate it for affect. More power to 'em. Some of them do it BECAUSE of the constant ostracization and figure screw ya.

[Jonboy582]

I hear what your saying about it may be something they do naturally but in the case of another gay friend, he has a gay brother as well and he says he "puts it on". And when I say run like a girl I mean don't really move your hands and waggle your behind. This wont be natural as women do that due to the hips they have made for child birth, so its not natural for a man to do it. Trust me I just tried and was very uncomfortable. Could it be more the fact that other gay men do it, and deep down everyone wants to fit in and be the same so they do it as well so they feel a part of something?

 

As a couple of you were discussing, having a child with a heterosexual partner would not be very nice thing. They might love you deeply but deep down you will be gay and not love them in the same way.

 

Jon

[Flux]

I agree if I was in a heterosexual relationship; I probaly would love him, but not be in love with him. I know I wouldn't be happy; I've never been happy in a hetero relationship...

 

I think I only see my future like that because I have for like 17 years and it more a habit then me thinking, wait that not right.. I'm a lesbian

 

does that make any sense? cos I'm not really sure how to articulate it :S lol

[Jonboy582]

Lol I get what you mean, like you always assumed thats how your life would turn out. Now your getting older and understanding everything more its changing but as you are so used to feeling like you felt its confusing as thats how you think you should feel even though you shouldn't lol. You get any of that?

[Flux]

Yeah thats it exactly... Nothings what I thought it would be, so I'm changing it but still seeing it how I thought, so too speak lol

[vinnee]

I'm going to have to go with the Forrest Gump view on this one.

"I think maybe its both things going on at the same time"

I've know hetero people who find the idea of switching teams to be icky and gay friends who feel the same. I have a gay friend who wants no part of straightville but absolutely fawns over breasts. I know a girl who was in a straight relationship for 8 years that would dabble with the ladies. After her boyfriend dumped her she claimed she is a lesbian and always was so. Then why did she try to commit suicide when he dumped her? Why didn't she find his penis icky? I know gay people who claim it was from birth and gay people who don't. I remember feeling "that way" about Wonder Woman and Daisy Duke when I was in kindergarten, but have never been prone to serious relationships with women over men.

And then there is my really unpopular belief that for some "gay" people it was much like people who have never fit in that get drawn into being a skinhead or a cult. They needed to feel like they belonged and the community that found them first was the gay community. Not that they were forced, but it gave them an identity to cling to. Suddenly this rather bland and quiet person is swishing their way around town and loudly claiming discrimination over the tiniest things. It gave them a voice and a mask, but they never followed through to trying the actual act of sex with their own gender. Just like the homophobic, closeted football player, I have known a few heterophobic, closeted queens. I have known a rape victim who protected themselves by being a lesbian. I have had two male friends and one teacher that acted very "feminine" but had only hetero relationships. The teacher had 4 kids and had been married for 25 years. He taught cosmetology and had had no father figure or brothers. He had just been with his mom and two sisters and they owned a hair salon. Total conditioning.

What makes life hard for people is societies insistence that we behave how they expect us to instead of how we want. If it was all genetics, where would the Bi people fit in?

[JadedStar]

I have a gay friend who wants no part of straightville but absolutely fawns over breasts.

 

 

Many straight women get turned on looking at female porn. Just because someone is straight doesn't mean that they will never get some kind of curious sexual thought over a member of the same sex. But it doesn't make them gay, and a gay person getting a sexual thought over the opposite sex doesn't mean they are straight. I have a gay friend who calls women "hot" all the time, he can see that they are sensual and alluring, he just has no desire to sleep with them altho he has often said sometimes he is curious what it would be like. Doesn't make him straight. And since many straight females fawn over breasts as much as men, logic would suggest that gay men might do the same but still not want to have sex with them or switch to the other team. I know some straight women more fascinated wtih boobs than some men.

 

If it was all genetics, where would the Bi people fit in?

 

First, I don't think anyone here claimed it was ALL genetics. It was said several times thru this thread that some people born straight became gay for a variety of reasons - rape and incest victims, abused as children, etc and the switching to the other team was not genetic but a protective measure.

 

Secondly, I firmly believe that every bisexual person leans to one orientation a bit stronger than the other. I don't think most bi people fall into the category of being gay. They are more seemingly sexually adventurous people who find both sexes attractive, but like i said almost all of them lean more heavily to one persuasion or the other and just because they can have sex with both does not make them fall into this category of genetically predisposed gay people.

 

I firmly and emphatically believe that the majority of the gay community are gay from birth and it is not a choice...if it were a choice most of them would have chosen to be straight only because society even today is so hard on gay people. Particularly men, since lesbians are a bit more accepted socially.

 

I don't think any person is 100% straight or gay in some regards. I don't think, for example, that a 100% straight male could get turned on watching porn with naked men in them doing females if there wasn't even a grain of curiosity...not that they desire a man but something about seeing the penis enter the vagina turns them on. I think everyone has a certain degree of curiosity about the same sex, for some it is just very microscopic with others a little stronger. The whole thing about genetics, IMHO, is just that genetics determine which orientation a person will have much more propensity to lean towards.

 

Most people are born either left or right handed, but some are ambidextrous...just like some are bi but the majority lean one way or the other sexually. But a left handed person CAN become right handed, especially years ago when they were taught in kindergarten that left handed writing was wrong and were forced to use the right. I know some older people who went thru this. Same with orientation. There are a few who "forced" against their orientation because their family or society said it is "wrong" to be gay.

 

In sixth grade i had a teacher who was forced to write right handed when she started school, however, she wrote wtih both hands on the board to show us that even tho she was forced to switch hands she still wrote beautifully with her left hand and that it still felt "natural". Just like a person who marries opposite gender but who was born gay who still feels that being with same sex person would feel "natural".

[vinnee]

Jadedstar,

 

I wasn't siting these examples as to shoot holes in the theories of others. I was simply saying it takes all kinds and nothing is cut and dry. I know my friend who likes breast only likes them asthetically and I don't consider it to be a sign that he isn't really gay. I am just saying I feel it isn't all about genetics and nothing is every exactly as it seems. Otherwise my grandmother would be right in her new belief (she use to not thing a person could be born gay) that gay people are born that way and we should be looking for a cure just like we do with children born with genetic abnormalities. I don't think gay people need to be "fixed". All the different people are what makes life interesting. You may find some gay people who will say "Do you think I would choose to be this way if I had a choice?". They would likely not be lining up around the block of a clinic that claimed they knew how to genetically change their orientation. I am sure being gay leads to frustrating and unpleasant life situations, but the problem isn't their genetics. It is how people respond to them. Everyone has their own set of frustrations about fitting they way they live and who they are into society and these thing can't all be genetic. How much nicer would it be if we could stop looking for controllable reasons why people are the way they are and just let them be? Being gay may be a genetic lean or tendency but there is still a measure of environmental influence and personal preference or choice. And I am fine with either way. In fact, I am not sure why there are geneticists trying to find the source of gayness in the first place. Its not like it is a physically debilitating condition. Society is the debilitating situation. Maybe we should be looking into bigots DNA instead.

[JadedStar]

I am not sure if you are really reading the replies or referring to replies here I am not seeing, but no one here suggested that if you are born gay or if it is genetic that it needs "fixing" or someone needs to find a cure. There is no need for a cure because it isn't an illness. Just like my handwriting analogy again, I hate to keep using it but it is just a small example of how we are genetically predisposed from birth to something, but a left handed person is different from the norm (since most are right handed) but that doesn't mean that scientists need to find a "cure" simply because they are not in the majority. But just because it isn't an illness doesn't mean that some scientist somewhere in the world might not want to study it to see why it happens or if two right handed people produce a leftie more than two lefties produce a rightie or what have you.

 

And if you did read all of my replies one of my very reasons for thinking that if scientists COULD find a DNA link then maybe that would help the homophobes who think that gay people are deviants who are making a choice to be with same gender partners just to pi$$ them off. I think that this would HELP the cause of gay people not make it worse. Education is a way of helping to dispell myths and if DNA links or evidence could show that it is not something people just choose on a whim maybe it will help in some way. It can't hurt.

 

Bigotry is horrible, I agree with you. I never once said it was something that needed to be cured. I am just interested in the human mind in general and the subject interests me.

[vinnee]

I'm sorry, I thought I was doing what the whole point of this site is for. The free sharing of view points. Like I said, I didn't post to shoot holes. I'm just allowing for the gay friends I have that claim that it wasn't as simple as being born that way for them, to be a view added to the collective conversation. I'll leave YOUR thread now.

[JadedStar]

I'm sorry, I thought I was doing what the whole point of this site is for. The free sharing of view points. Like I said, I didn't post to shoot holes. I'm just allowing for the gay friends I have that claim that it wasn't as simple as being born that way for them, to be a view added to the collective conversation. I'll leave YOUR thread now.

 

VInnie it is VERY okay to voice your opinions, but when your opinions consist of misconstruing the intent of others or twisting their meaning then it is ALSO okay for those persons to set the record straight. It seemed to me like you were assuming that people were saying that bieng gay is an illness that needs to be fixed and that was a gross misinterpretation. I couldn't find one post on this thread that even inferred that.

 

I cant stand it when people are melodramatic over a disagreement in a thread when the disagreement isn't even uncivil. I was not rude to you so this is over the top, but when your post seems to be putting words in people's mouths it is quite okay for somene to say are you sure you got the right intent of those posts. YOu failed to even see that I agreed with much of your post but felt that you also misinterpreted some of mine since it was me you referenced.

 

It is not MY thread or YOUR thread, it is public domain of ENA.

[vinnee]

Ok JadedStar, I'll try again.

 

I am not saying it is an illness. I was trying to convey that I don't think proving that it is genetic is going to help the gay community in any way. I pointed out that there are so many different blends within sexuality that it is POSSIBLY not strictly genetic.

My grandmother is very conservative Baptist. My whole family is. The congregation at her church all believe homosexuality is a moral sin and gays are going to Hell. One time during service this issue was the topic of debate and I knew it would be when I made my plans to visit my grandmother. I took an article about how geneticists were finding indications that gay people were born gay. It did not change everyone's mind, It instead had them all hopeful that there would be a way to "fix" gays or prevent them from being born.

If proof was all it took then why do Fundamental Christians believe in Creationism? Geologists, geneticists, and archeologists have already proven evolution.

Proof is enough for you; it is enough for me and whole mess of other people because we already accept homosexuality. We accepted it before any proof or excuse. It will not be enough to the people who don't accept it. Hateful people will still be hateful. We should look at their DNA. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the money used to fund this research came from Christian interest.

If it is proven to everyone that it is genetic, I believe the next natural step in a country that will not allow same sex marriage, will be to further research how to prevent it. How accepted will the gay community feel when all the hetero people (who are allowed to marry) start going to fertility clinics to prevent their babies from being "born that way."

I think it will be easier to teach tolerance to our next generations if we continue to look at it as each individual's right to live how they want as long as they hurt no one else in their pursuits.

It is for all these reasons why some of my gay friends DO NOT WANT it to be looked at as simply a genetic issue. They don't want to be looked at as though they have a "condition".

And for myself, I firmly believe that even if they nailed down the exact DNA responsible for being gay and eliminated it from the gene pool, we would still find there was STILL all kinds of different sexual preferences. They would just be less tolerated.

[Flux]

It think it will be easier to teach tolerance to our next generations if we continue to look at it as each individual's right to live how they want as long as they hurt no one else in their pursuits.

 

I honestly agree with this comment...

 

If it doesn't **directly** hurt anyone, it should not be an issue...

 

I have for years defended gay/lesbian rights to people who voice a 'distaste' to it my mother, who is a catholic. and also my grandparents, who are just old-fashioned; and this was my argument and usually the one that shut them up or got them thinking 'oh?'. lol

[illnvrluvher]

To be gay is simply a choice.

[vinnee]

To be gay is simply a choice.

 

Exactly. This is easier to defend. The Christians can holler about how the bible says "Homosexuality is a sin" all they want and I can say...

"The bible says to obey the laws of the land and we have the constitutional right to be who we want in this land."

You have to know how you enemy thinks to get around them.