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What is this woman doing and why????

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For me, this started just over a year ago - a few days after we met, we started having long conversations (I mean half hour to an hour - AT WORK), and emails back and forth - it was crazy. When I woudl drop hints about us going out sometime - she would say nothing, avoid my email or hints and then go right back to her frequent visits and emails. Finally, after 2 months, I had lunch with her one day and said that it was obvious that I liked her and wanted to take her out, but i didn't even know if she was involved with anybody. SHe looked at me with this strange look - then said that she was kind of seeing somoeone, but it wasn't serious, it was long distance and he wasn't the one for her - she was ending it. I told her we shouldn't talk about that now then adn we changed the subject.


WHen she had the boyfriend still, she would tell me how going out with me and doing something outside of work would feel too much like she was cheating on him so she couldn't accept my invitations. SHe would tell me that if she met me earlier, she woudl go out with me - and that she couldn't just break up with the boyfriend adn be with me because she wouldn't want me to think I was just a rebound or safety net - i was more than that.


That went on for months - flirting, and her staying with the boyfriend - although it was long distance and they never saw each other. We continued with our friendship, because I was hopeful things would change - and it was hard, month after month.


She broke up with her boyfriend about 5 months ago, and we continued the insane emails and talking - and she was telling me that her and I going out was just not something she was ready for - that she doen'st just date, and that she needed time to get over things with the ex - it was hard, and there were other things she needed to sort out in her life. She would never talk to me about them though - just be so closed off. We had a long talk one day, when I asked her where this was going - that i liked her, and wanted to spend more time with her - take her out - but I dont' know if she only wants to be friends or what. WHen I asked "do you just want to be friends", she slowly nodded yes after a pause - looking all awkward like - then over the next half hours time, she explained that it was just that she needed some time, didn't want a relatoinship right now, that there were things going on and it wasn't fair to me because she couldn't give me what i need because her mind is on her ex boyfriend still. She started getting worked up, saying that it scares her to death to think of how close she feels she can get to me so easily, it makes her sick to her stomach, and there are things she could tell me that would probably make me run in the other direction. She said she has chickened out so many times - and didn't want to push me away. It just made no sense - and she finished by saying she didn't want to disapoint me or hurt me. She first said she only wanted to be friends, then said all that stuff - so I asked her what she wanted - was it 12:15 when she said she only wantd to be friends, or 12:45 when she told me all that other stuff and we talked about me waiting, giving her some time. She said she wants US to wait.


Thta was about 2 months ago - and still it's nothing. We had a pretty big fight this past month, just started talking to each other again this week. In our talk she said that she thought our friendshp was fine, and that we keep going in circles with all this stuff. She explained that there is stuff going on with her family and she doesn't know if she's coming or going, and that she doesn't want anythign with anybody right now - she just wants to be alone. First she said that she felt us getting closer, but she thought ot herself that she was sending the wrong signals. WHen I asked "you felt yourself getting closer, or you thought I was" and she said it was me she thought was - that she didn't feel that way. Then she said she did like me, does like me - and as she said before that she just needed time. IT left me confused - because I dont' know what to believe - and yet I got emotionally involved after a whole year of this.


I don't know what to do anymore - my friends and family can't understand her at all. TO me - someone of the opposite sex doesn't spend that much time with a person, in person, emails, all that stuff if they are not attracted and interested in them, you just don't do that stuff. People in the office even came to me and asked what wasw going on because she was in my office ALL THE TIME, even our director noticed adn made a comment about it - saying I should ask her out, it was obvious things weren't serious with her boyfriend (this was back in the beginning).


RIght now - I'm faking our friendship. Everyone tells me the best way to handle a person like her (which everyone says is selfish and doesn't care about other peoples feelings) is to make sure she see's you have no problem with hw things turned out. SO I do just that - tease and flirt with other women in the office, always joking and making people laugh as I always have. She has started comign to me again - in my office for a small chat, emails, and I down play it - write her back in an hour or two instead of right away like I always did.


The good news for me is that I got a promotion adn will be leaving the divisoin in about 2 months - so I don't have ot see her anymore - I just have so much hate for her because I felt like she played me this entire time. The last thing we said about all of this stuff that has gone on was that it was all a matter of bad timing - and thigns would have been different if we met a few years ago or a few years later. Thing is - I care about her, have feelings for her - but have this anger and hate for her at the same time, where I want to be friends - but also can't be friends because I don't trust her. IT's a rejection thing as well - feeling not good enough for her - and I know that next week or next month, when a guy comes along that does itnerest her - there will be no THINGS standing in the way of her going out with him.


Can it be just bad timing? If you're a woman and you can sort of understand WHY she did the above, what you think went through her head - is going through her head - please, do fill me in because I'm left confused and honestly - driving myself crazy tryign to analzying EVERYTHIGN that happened between us.

I know for a fact, that tomorrow she will be back in my office, laughing and talking - sending me emails asking how I"m doing, if I"m busy, how things are going, bla bla bla - as if we're best pals in the world. I just want to scream sometimes.


Thanks for hearing me vent...

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Thanks for your reply, shadowdancer.

Yes - you are right - it has changed the way I see any sort of relationship with her at all. I hate myself thinking "what if she comes back and says..." because it's as if I can't let her go. Understandably, for over a year, I got close and emotionally involved so I have to deal with that - cannot quite see yet how everyone else around me hears my tale and says "RUN RUN RUN, as fast as you can - this is a blessing that things didn't get more serious".


I keep saying to myself that the only way this friendship at all can be fixed, is if she comes clean, tells me what has been going on with her and to open up to me - becuase otherwise I just can't trust her at all. I haven't said this - i probably never will.


What I did say, however, in our talk a few days ago which I described a bit of in my post - was that all this has never been about her and I and having a relatoinship - i was never pushign that and she knew it from the start. I told her many times that i was in a position where I want ot get that much closer to her, or to fall back and become just friends - that I needed to know what I"m supposed to be doing. She woudl give me every excuse, but not honestly say she just wants friends. I told her that the other day as well, when she wrote me and said this was just bad timing and that she never wanted to disapoint me or hurt me. I replied and simply said that I don't know what this does to our friendship - but that I accepted another job and will be leaving shortly anyway. I told her that the little thigns I did for her, the way I was, that changes - because that't not what we are anymore. I told her that things will be different, not in a bad way, just in a different way, and that she should have simply said, a year ago, that she only wanted to be friends - period - and everythign this past year didn't have to happen. She said NOTHING in reply.


Just one other thing I can say - because like I said I'm torturing myself tryign to understand her. AFter one of our 'talks' a few months back, I wrote her an email and shared a story about how I understood the difficulty of getting over a relationship - and that I didn't want her to experience the same thing I did years ago. She came to see me after she read it and she was so mushy and sweet, it kind of freaked me out a bit - she was sending me the vibe of "this is it - i want to be with you". She looked at me and for the first time since we met, she asked if she could call me on the weekend - sundaya fternoon. I said sure, I should be ohme in the evening. SHe then told me that she would email me at home later that day, which IT hought was kind of strange - figured it was going to prepare me for what our talk was going to be about on Sunday.


I got home that afternoon - and sure enough, she sent an email. It was a forwarded JOke email that was titled "Something that every husband, boyfriend or significant other should keep with them to understand women" and it went on to talk about always offer chocolate to solve all problems. I was thinking "what - this is what she wanted to send me at home and couldn't send me this morning".


Sunday afternoon came - I sat here from 4:00 pm through the entire evening, she never called! The next day at work - I gtotally ignored her - she walked by and I didn't even make eye contact, just blew her off because I was pissed! A little while later in the day, i get an email from her as if nothing was wrong - and she said "I called you yesterday but I guess you were still at your parents because the phone just rang and rang". I replied and said "That's funny, because I have call display and my phone keeps track of who called - you weren't one of them" and that was it for the day. That night, guess who called me!?!?!? She told me that she memorized my phone number when she went home for the weekend and then realized that she had the last two digist reversed in the phone number. I let it go - not quite believing her of course - but we talked for about an hour and a half about NOTHING - just chat like we always do. A few days later, curiosity got the better of me and I called that phone number with the last two digist reversed - and after not even a half a ring you get "We're sorry - the number you have reached is not in service...".


WHY LIE? SHe keeps saying "I value your friendship" and yet she does that to me. It makes no sense. That is why part of me thinks she does have srong feelings for me - feelings she has never felt before for anybody - and she doesn't know how to deal with them. I just don't know - but I hate myself for thinkign that is what it is because it only tortures me even more.


So frustrating I tell ya - and tomorrow, i get to see her again - and i know that she will be sending me email and coming to my office to talk - as if nothing ever happened. She started last Thursdya and Friday - each day a little more time and a little more closer.

I don't deserve that - everybody says it - but my heart won't let go adn still gives her the benefit of the doubt. HOW STUPID AM I?

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Hi Reynder....

I read your reply to me and thank you.


Wow....you ARE going through a dilemma.

I think what keeps us going with people we are interested in is the mystery of it all.

Although I really really want to know what is going on with my friends head at work, In other ways I dont in fear of the rejection.


But yet, its good to have that "fun and mystery" of coming into work every day and looking forward to seeing him and what will happen next. As frustrating as it can be...I think thats a big part of it.


The way your friend is acting is strange. It does seem to be that she is interested in you, yet she loves this other guy...so it sounds sort of confusing.

Like she doesnt know what to do. All I can say is..see where it takes you before you leave your job. If nothing comes of it..It will be good that you are moving on.

You will miss her, but yet you will see and meet new people. She will be a "nice" memory I suppose.

I feel you met her for a reason.

I really wish this would work out for you.

Let us know what happens, ok?

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Hey there,

Yes - a "nice" memory!

I too wish I knew what was going on - but as I said, nobody who hears my story can come close to understanding her.


I"m only watching out for me right now - that's all I can do. She did love him, she admittted that to me after they broke up - and I sat there and told her that if she loves him to not let him go then - talk to him, work it out if she has such strong feelings. She said no, it would never have worked out and it's only because he was her first for EVERYTHING. I can understand that, and how hard it is - but that still gives her no right to treat me the way she did and still is.


ALl I know is that I can't do or say anything more - and I"m just going with teh flow at work. Like I said - she's sending emails again, coming to me - and I make her smile and laugh and make sure I don't act any differently as if I"m upset and bothered that her and I didn't work out. As I told her, we are like night and day and want/need different things - I'm looking for that love in my life, that special someone - she needs to be alone.


Still - it doesn't give her the right to be so cruel and selfish - not caring about me at all, even though she keeps saying how she does. Actions speak louder than words - I alwasy believed that.

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I think I understand her. I'm going through a very similar thing right now with a young woman who was in a bad relationship. We actually had a shot at going out...I went to her house, we were kissing...and then she got very distant and said that she just wanted to be friends, that she wasn't ready for a relationship, that I could be important to her but the timing wasn't right yet even though she had originally thought it was.


I rationalized everything, asked everyone for advice, and came up empty.


Finally, another woman friend of mine who knows both of us (she knows me extremely well and only knows the other woman barely...but has been in a position to observe what she's doing to me) told me what is going on...and you won't like it...but here it is:


You are her stand-by "just-in-case" guy.


You see, she broke up with someone. She feels alone and hurt, but you make her feel special with your attention. Most likely, she's not interested in you at all...or is only slightly interested...but is making you think that she is so that you don't stop feeding her attention. She needs to feel attractive and special...you make her feel that way...


...sounds okay, right? Except that the reason she wants to feel attractive and special is so that she can get over her heartache and FIND SOMEONE ELSE, and there's about a 99% chance that it will not be you.


This was hard for me to accept, but as I stood and looked objectively at what was going on...it became apparent that it was true. We don't want to admit this stuff...we think we know someone...we cling to the hope that it's not true and that they really care for us...but you have to be real.


You may think I'm harsh, but I saw proof of this in your messages. YOU are doing all the work. If she was pursuing you, it would be different. I have a TON of ladies who love to spend time with me...but NONE of them are pursuing me...they can talk to me for HOURS on the phone, in person, whatever...but not ONE of them is pursuing me...there's a big difference.



It hit me like a brick that many other women in my past had done the same thing to me. I was becoming what they call a "doormat," because women were walking over me. Many of them came to me and told me they were going to break up with boyfriends, or that they were interested in me...but as soon as they had me where they wanted me, they kept me at arms length for attention...because I gave it too freely.


There is some good news, though. Not all women are like this. Other women will definitely tell you that they know that this breed of woman exists. Just as men will tell you that some of the sweet guys out there are not really sweet, they just use their charm to have sex with women and then dump them. It's kind of the same thing...this breed of woman wants to milk you for all the warm feelings you give her without ever giving you anything in return.


Think about this...everything you're saying is in direct relations to how you feel about her. But, how do you feel about YOURSELF? What is she doing for you? What are you getting out of the relationship? Her presense? That's a crock. You're creating your own feelings for her, and her presense makes them stronger...but she is not returning the feelings at all, so you are in a one-sided situation that will never become what you want it to be...


As I told another friend recently (who went through the same thing with a woman who left her husband), think about this really hard:


"All these feelings you have for her should be drawn inside and saved for a *real* woman who will be glad that you feel that way about her. And believe me, the woman that's worthy of your attention will be *glad* that this woman was too stupid to realize what a great guy you are...because if she had you would have never found the one who truly cared about you."


The woman in my case is young, beautiful, smart...everything I ever wanted. We have chemistry. We have a great time. She's a great kisser...you name it...we even have similar goals...


...but she doesn't really want me. And she is wasting my time. A year I spent pursuing her could have been spent doing something better. She keeps wanting me to wait...until she finishes school...until she gets over her ex...until we don't work together anymore...whatever. And yet, I've seen evidence of other guys coming around (evidence I wasn't supposed to know about). I've seen other guys that are nipping at her heels the same way I am, and I wonder if she's selling them the same line.


I'm not trying to be autobiographical here, but I want you to understand that you are not alone. It will hurt, my friend, but do yourself a favor and toss her over your shoulder like a used-up soda generic soda can and go find yourself a woman who is more like fine wine...you will be much happier.


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...but as someone who just came out of something similar...you need to know. I wish someone would have told me a long time ago.

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Thanks, Prophet Sword - and I do agree with you, I've been feeling that way on and off throughout the time we have known each other. There are juts things she has done (and not done) that sent up the red flags - however - stupid me kept giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was sincere and being honest about everything.


Yes it hurts, but it's something I"ve been thinking about as well - plus what my friends have told me. Of course you don't want to believe it - but she's a very beautiful woman - every guy in the building watches her, I can see it when we're together. Thing is - it was me she gave the time too - nobody else - and to me, I give time to a woman like that only if i'm interested - so - I assumed that was where this relatoinship was going - even though she had the boyfriend!


Yes, she did break up with him - and in the back of my mind I always had this sneaking suspition that I"m going to totally run into her and some new guy she's dating some evening and it's going to rip my heart out, because this "i need time" is such a load of crap. I told her that in our last talk - not to that extreme - but simply that I know for a fact that when she does meet the right guy, there will be no such thing as "I need time" and "I don't want to be with anybody right now" - that she will do anything and everything she can to be with him because she will not want to lose him. She just listened, then kind of did this funny thing wiht her mouth and shrugged her shoulders either say "ya - you're right and you're not him" or "I don't know". Either way - I"m not him! ANd truthfully - you're right - what does she bring me in our relatoinship - even just our friendship. The answer is nothing compared to what I have and woudl have given her.


My best friend said to me "buddy - with a woman like her, it's not a matter of IF she will screw you over - it's when she'll screw you over" - and it's true. She can preach about how she cares and doesn't watn to hurt me - but the entire time she has only cared about herself!


So tell me - what are you/have you done about your situation? DO you still keep in touch with this girl? WOrk together? I still work with her, and as of earlier this past week (after a month of us not talking - and then her telling me that she thought I just wanted her to leave me alone and give me some space - that she thought our friendship was fine ...AS IF...) she is back to the emails and the visits and I've been making her laugh and sending the "life is great" vibe. Basically I plan on playing that angle for the next 2 months until I leave - then where she figures we'll talk and keep in touch, it is over for me as of this past week - not that i will ever say that to her, it will just be obvious by the lack of interest I have keeping in touch.


Other than doing that - I have no idea what else to do because she will not explain herself, she will not do anything but lie and give excuses about things, it's just such garbage. Frustrating - yes - very!

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Heard of the term self-destruct it happens to humans GET OUT of this mess and do it fast ..


She is not the right person for you for so many reasons and you know them pretty well .


AS for giving her the nice vibe screw that , hey if someone plays with u let them know that , u have feelings no one should just waltz in and out of them when they feel like.


I know we all have mood swings but not like this , cant use others emotions to protect our own . Look what she is doing to you reducing to the state of a puppet in a play . As for emotions save them I mean we all get attached to things if we spend time with them .. even objects like your favourite chair or office .. I think you should tell her to hit the road or make her realize that you feel you are being used as for the hurt thing and getting out of a relationship , I mean the stuff about mailing you on Sunday and then sending you a joke …I mean hello wake up smell the roses , YOU KNOW WHATS WRONG SHE IS TAKING YOU FOR GRANTED …stop it tell her once in a while to fo and not right now watch how she comes right back ..guaranteed


Your behaviiour is to predictable for your own good , she knows she has you wrapped around her finger make her realize it aint the case


Shock her and see what happens I mean you got nuthin to lose let her have some of her own sh*t back !


See how she likes it … she might not be a b**ch but she is certainly acting like one.


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Since you asked what I'm doing, I'll tell you...


I'm getting over her.


I also try to send her clear messages whenever I can. She is still under the impression that she has me wrapped around her finger. But she'll drop little hints about things and I reverse it on her to show her she can't control me. I can stay friends...it's hard...but I let her know she can't screw me over.


The other day she said to me: "I'll haunt you for the rest of your life." I said: "You think so?" She said: "It'll happen." I replied: "I'm about to prove you wrong." And walked away.


Here's what I do that drives her nuts but puts her in her place. First, learn to say "no" a lot. Even if you really want to spend time with her, tell her no. I said that the other day, and the reaction was incredible. Not only will you send a clear message, you will get some respect from her because if she's beautiful, she's not used to hearing that word.


In most cases, the women are spoiled and used to getting their way. They are leeching off you.


Imagine your emotions are your hard-earned money. Imagine she's a man. If a man was doing the same thing, except leeching your money instead of emotions...what would you do? You'd put an end to it, right? Treat her like that.


You don't have to be rude. You can just be direct. Don't become a jerk, or she'll just tell everyone you're an ass. Just tell her no.


That's it from here. I'm going through the same thing right now...so I understand. Let's both find women worthy of us.

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Yes ProphetSword - i agree, women worthy of us.

I keep telling myself she's only one girl - someone I woudl be miserable with anyway if things did work out. I know I woudl - deep down, I totally know I would.


I won't be mean to her - there is no point. I like and agree with your idea of saying NO - i thought about that as well, just haven't had much chance to use it the past month. We got into a fight about a month ago, didn't talk for about 3 weeks - then last week we had our "talk" which basically put me in my place, her not wanting to have disapointed me or hurt me, that wasn't her intention.


A few thigns I have changed - I don't initiate anything anymore. I don't write her email or go to her to start a conversation. If she writes me, instad of writing back within a few minutes, I always wait at least an hour - maybe even 2 or 3 before I reply - and I keep it to the point, without allowing much room for too much of a response from her. When she comes to my office to chat, I chat, make her laugh, but then say after a few minutes "I really gotta get this done, so I"ll talk to you later". The week ended last Friday with her sending me an email that just read "I think I have a chocolate problem, I need help!!!!". Before I left for the weekend, about an hour or so after I got her email, I replied with the subject line "results of a chocolate problem" and drew this really pathetic picture that was supposed to be her, face all chubby and body all fat - sent it along with saying to have a nice weekend that I was sneaking out a bit early. She replied in like 30 seconds - sayign how funny the picture is because it actually does look like her. My normal reply to things she said like that woudl be "no way - as if - bla bla bla" making her feel good. This time - I didn't reply - not a word.


Stupid thing with me is - my heart keeps telling me there is more to this and she isn't being honest with me about how she really feels about me. I can't see a person spendign that much time with someone, being that close, if they didn't care and felt something more than just being friends. Again - it's my own stupidity for thinking and feeling that way - soething that will go away in time.


Time to move on....

thanks for all your advice...and good luck buddy...

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I really don't think this is the case but seeing how easily emotions can trick you i thought I'd share my situation with you. This girl that I've been spending alot of time with recently broke up with her boyfriend (like a month or two ago). I don't know why she dumped him and didn't, ask the details. I was friends with her before and we would always talk and have a good time togthher (although i never said anything i had a thing for her). Recently I found out that she likes me and we've been spending alot of time together. We both call each other... its not a one way thing, and we hang out. We've talked about how we felt--she told me that she knew what she wanted but didnt want to jump into things right away with me (which i agreed with because she recently got out of a relationship with a friend). She said its like when you want to jump into a pool, but you ease your way in slowly... not just dive in head first. I really like her and we both have fun together, but I'd e devestated if I was being used (I don't think I am but maybe I'm blind).

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Hey P-frenchie,

Be careful! That is exactly the same stuff I heard.


She told me how terrified she was of how easy it is for her to get close to me. She said why else do you think I don't call you like every day? She said it wasn't fair to me to just jump into another relationship when she's getting over thigns with the ex boyfriend. He was her first for everything, it was hard. I understood - and believed her - but it was all bull!!


She tells me how I'm such a great guy and how she woudl go out with me, but then treats me like I'm nothing ot her - only when she wants to be friends, she starts to pour it on. Finally hearing her tell me that she felt me getting closer many times, but that was it, she would stop and think that maybe she was sending em the wrong signals. This froma woman who sat there and told me that how easy it is to get close to me makes her sick to her stomach, she can't even eat, but she knows she's not ready - it would be fair to me because I'm more than just some rebound, some safety net! WHAT A LOAD!


Just be careful - as long as she is spendign the time with you and doing those things, and you're enjoyign them, I say go for it - be her friend. You'll see the signs when that starts to change.


My situation, she tells me she doesn't want to be with anyone right now - nothing at all. Thing is - if that is the case, and she truly cares about me - she would explain her situatoin, talk to me about what she's going through - but she tells me she isn't like that, she keeps things to herself and deals with things that way. I believe, and I told her this the other day, that when she meets the right guy, when the right guy comes along and she realizes she can't take the chance of losign him - she will think differently - that she will do anything and everythign she can just to get close to him. She just listened, kind of gave this funny look and shrugged her shoulders. Basically I took that as "you're right - and i don't feel that way about you"!


for me - time to move on - and to take ShaddowSwords advice about saying no for a change. For myself, having to work with this woman, i'm just happy that I'm changing jobs and won't have to deal witht his anymore in a couple months.


Take care, and just BE CAREFUL. It is possible that it is just bad timing (and when I said that to my friend - she said that was exactly it, just bad timing), just watch out fo the signs, and don't get sucked in too deep!!!



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You know, even when I'm giving advice, even I'm falling for the tricks. The woman I've told you about lured me in again. She's been flirting with me pretty hard, and after a few days, I came to realize it's just an attempt to get me to pay attention to her again.


So, I started thinking about all the little things she did that were RED FLAGS...and I'm going to give you a list. Check it to see if the woman you're writing about has done any of these things. What gets me is how easily a man will overlook these things when a pretty woman is involved, but will notice it when the woman is less attractive. Most likely, the woman is playing you if she does any of the following (and I'm speaking from experience with my recent run-in with this breed of girl):


1) Asks you to buy her something or drops hints that you should spend money on her (I never did...I spotted this right away).


2) Always has plenty of time to talk if she needs to tell you something, but when you want to talk to her, she is busy or doesn't quite have the time to hear you.


3) Refuses to engage in any conversation that starts to get too serious, or will ignore what you're saying and change the subject.


4) Flirts with you constantly to make you feel important, but never takes it any further when you flirt back or make a move.


5) Makes up a hundred different excuses why she can't make time for you or do anything with you.


6) Makes promises and breaks them without saying she's sorry, but if you don't do something she asks, she lets you know about it.


7) When she wants attention, she lies about the things in her life to make it seem way more dramatic than it is...and you suspect that she's just making things up to get sympathy, but you can't prove it.


8) Never makes you a priority. If you're standing there talking to her and someone else she knows passes by, she suddenly starts talking to them like you're not even there. That one really makes me mad.


9) Tells you how much she loves to hang around with you or how much she cares about you, but her actions pretty much say that she's lying.


10) Is self-centered. Everything revolves around her and you hear the word *me* used a lot. It isn't always obvious at first, but you begin to realize after a while that even though she's including you in things, it is always a benefit to her...and she is not taking any of your feelings into consideration.


I'm sure there are more...but 10 will do. And honestly, after having to work so hard to even get a decent conversation out of her today, I've pretty much decided the best course of action is to tell this woman to completely f*** off the next time she does any of this stuff.


It's hard when you think someone might like you, if they're leading you on...but I think it's just time that I call her on all this stuff when she does it. I'm clinging to her because she might like me, but deep down I know she doesn't....so she's about to get an earful, and that will solve the problem once and for all.


Anyway, let me know if any of these things are happening to you. Replying to your problems is actually very therapeutic for me if only because I can vent what I need to while hearing from someone else and knowing I'm not the only guy going through this stuff.


Ever feel like you're not strong enough to handle these kinds of women? (They actually make you feel that way). Well, take your strength back...you're a man, dammit. Next time she does something you don't like, be sure to let her know.

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I may be seeking alot of advice for different aspects of my life... but I realize that alot of my problems are manifested in my head (no im not crazy). I mean right now this girl is absolutely everything I want in a woman (and yes I may fall in love too easily) so automatically I begin to look for problems with her. That's the thin, there isn't any:


None of your 10 "flags" have ever happened to me with her... I really do think that she's serious about me. It may be some stupid puppy love (18 year olds) but still it means alot to me at this point in my life. I have been played with before by another woman and did notice some of those signs, not this time though. With my luck something will still go wrong, but you know what... when things are good they never seem that geat, and when you're down you don't think things will ever be good again (paraphrased from BLOW).


I might not be making sense right now to some of you, and I myself not take my advice if I read it objectively. But If you read into things too much your mind plays tricks on you and then you make a good situation bad. I'm not advising anyone to persue these evil women (or I'm sure some of you women have met similar men) but don't turn a good foundation to a relationship sour because you're suspicious. If there are "red flags" then you should take note, but if not love like you've never been hurt (once again I'm not trying to take credit for this idea).


Back to the original point of my post... I was constantly concerned as to whether or not this girl had genuine feelings for me, and after reading some of these posts, started wondering if the same thing could happen to me. ALthough it has before, and can again, ProphetSword you have made me realize that this girl is different (she listens and we share things, she appreciates my time, she never asks me to buy things and in fact gets me small presents {like gum and candy sticks to hellp me quit smoking}, and she doesn't put me last}. The only thing that has me wondering still is the fact that she wants to "test the waters in a realtionship". But hey, maybe if I wasn't such a retard I would have realized that some girls tell the truth and maybe she actually does want to take things slowly (as opposed to have me on a leash).


Anyways, I'm done... I don't know who read this, but hopefully someone found something worth taking note of during my long vent.

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Out of those 10 red flags, ProphetSword - I can identify with 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10! hahahaha.....and yes, there are more - but you hit the main ones right on the head!


The closest thing she ever came to be buyign anything for her, or doing anything "special" for her I would say - would be something silly about a month and a half ago. I told her I wanted tot ake her out for Thai food some evening, she has only had it once and loved it and I wanted to take her to a real thai restaurant. I suggested it one weekend, and she came back the following monday appologizing that she had to work extra shifts on the weekend and wasn't able to make it. I teased her, and said that I would have to make her a coupon or something. For 2 days she kept bringing that up, saying that I should - asking em if I made the coupon yet. So I took 10 minutes one afternoon and silly me, made ths authentic looking coupon with a bit of a sweet twist to it - because I do silly crap like that with the woman I like doing that stuff you would never admit to your guy friends about! haha. I left it in her mailbox, in an envelope with a few chocolates - she sent me an email the day after just saying "thakns for the treats" - nothing else. When we had our "talk" last week - I brought it up, sayign how she treated me felt more like she read the thing I made for her, then tossed it out. SHe said "I would never do that - i thought it was sweet". But when I asked her why she never said anythign about it - just blew me off, she shrugged her shoulders not knowing what to say, simply sayign that she still has it. I asked if she planned on using it, ever - she calmly said "I didn't know, that's why I kept it". I couldn't believe it - this girl had an answer for everything, and it didn't matter what came out of her mouth, lies, excuses, anything - she could not appologize for being the way she is to me and would tell me anything to try and satisfy herself.


The emails have stopped, and her visits to my office have stopped again - Monday, Tuesday, Yesterday. Yesterday, we crossed paths in the hall and I stopped to talk for a few minutes, to see how her work was going. I could see how awkward she looked, especailly in her eyes - they began to get watery and as much of a sucker I am, I just chalked it up to the fact that maybe just before we crossed paths, she had one of those HUGE yawns that make your eyes water!!!!


I can understand how pissed of you are, ProphetSword - and I hope you read this before you do or say anything. DO NOT - and I REPEAT - DO NOT tell her to F#*$ OFF, or say anything to "hurt her back". I'm going through that stage too - over and over again it seems. But i bite my tongue every time! Why? Because she's not worth it!!!! Let some other guy be the one to cheat on her, lie to her, tell her she's a selfish self-centered B#(%# who is a waste of time. Not us though - we did nothign to these women but be nice, kind, caring, understanding, patient, loving, offering a shoulder, an ear, all that stuff. No matter how thse women truly feel about us - let's go down in the books of their lives as being they guy she treated like S#@% who didn't deserve it - and always be that person! So 30 years from now when we're both married to women we sit accross a dinner table with, look into their eyes and think "Damn - thank GOD thins didn't work out with what's her face" - that we know that wherever these women are, whoever they are living their lives with (if anybody at all), that we will always be the ones who did and said nothing to make us the 'bad guy'. Trust me, man - i too have been down this road - and I said words I wish I didn't. No matter how much I want to tell her off - i will not give her the satisfaction to let her see that she did get under my skin. Instead, she see's the ME who says "that's really too bad, i thought we could have had a great thing together", and moving on with my life! Like you said before - learn to say No, learn to move on, DO NOT give these women what we gave them before - there is no point!!!!


PFrenchie - I really don't know what your woman is feeling/thinking about you guys. For the first 6 months with this woman of mine, she had a boyfriend yet told me things like how she woudl be with me instead of him, how she doesn't know how to end it, that she tells her friends that just emailing me makes her feel as if she's cheating on her boyfriend. From that moment on, i heard nothing but excuses, because she had me wrapped around her little finger and if she told me she had to cancel our date because she saved a bus load of drowning school children - as far fetched as it was, and even though I heard nothing about it on the news, I woudl let it go - because she's being all sweet and nice to me again and that is what I wanted! I was fooled, was stupid - i'm just saying dont' get suckered in. Go with it - try and spend time iwht her, be with her, get close - maybe thigns will work out - maybe they won't. But do watch for the flags that ProphetSword gave - they are good indications that you're wasting your time.


The worst part about this, is even though we realize what to do and that we will and can do it - we will still be thinking, in the back our of minds, that she will realize what she is missing and completely change! THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN - and we cannot keep fooling ourselves that it will. Move on - meet a new girl - say nothign ot her. Treat her with respect, talk to her when you run into her, be nice - but the next time you look at her, ProphetSword - think about the hell she put you through, that is the hell that lies ahead of you if you ever got involved with her, let it go - move on - be thankful that this is happening now and not 10 years from now with 2 kids and a mortgage!


Beauty doesn't last forever - and even if we see these women as so beautiful and love the attention we get from them, if you take that away (5 years, maybe 10 or 15), are you left with a person you could spend your life with. I used to think she was that person - as I said to my mother a while back "This sucks because as beautiful and attractive as I think she is - she could have a third arm growing out of her neck and I would feel the same way about her". Yes - drastic, and not exactlyt he truth - but it got my point accross. I used to see her as that person - but now, take away the tall slim body, her pretty face, sexy way she walks, I see someone different now.


I gotta get to work. Hang in there guys - I just wish I could meet someone awesome right now just to get my mind off of crazy girl. I really hate myself for having passed up the opportunities over this past 4 months - my buddies have smacked me around when I didn't approach the women that were obviously interested. But as I told them - i just wasn't ready - my heart and mind was wrapped up with someone else and no matter who was hitting on me, it wasn't the woman on my mind! I hvve to move on, and i am - slowly - but one thing is for sure - DO NOT SHOW HER THAT YOU ARE GETTING TO HER. Every other guy has told her off in her past, every other guy has done the exact same thing "because that is what most guys do" - BE DIFFERENT - BE THE ONE WHO TREATED HER WITH RESPECT WHEN SHE DIDN'T DESERVE IT. It is the best way to get even!!!

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I hear what you're saying, but I think you're wrong about telling her off...and that's because that's what other women tell me I should do. You see, I have the benefit of having many close women friends...really beautiful and intelligent ones...


They claim that so long as I don't put her in her place (and it can be done firmly without being a jerk...you can just say something like: "I really don't have time to play games with you anymore." or as one friend suggested, just waiting for her to pull her stuff again and say: "I'm on to you." and walk away), so long as you don't tell her that the things she's doing is wrong, the more she believes that she's getting away with something and the more she will continue to do it.


She's a naughty girl, and honestly, she is *seeking* someone who is strong enough to put her in her place. What kind of man gets a woman like that? A strong one. One who has the confidence to tell her: "Stop that!"


By being to nice, all we've done is set ourselves up as prey. I know this because about three weeks ago, I was blowing her off and giving her attitude...and she started pursuing me. In fact, everytime I blow her off and act like she's not important, she turns the tables on me and runs right back to me...and then as soon as she gets to me...then she treats me like dirt.


Most likely, these women fall into the category of "drama queen." And, having read about them on the internet, I can tell you that people who fall into this category seek a relationship that is like a rollercoaster ride...in other words, according to what I've read, they seek men who will fight with them so that they can enjoy the "making up" process. They live for it.


And in my case, it explains her ex-boyfriend who would beat her senseless and then they'd make up and be fine. She got out of the relationship in the end...but why did she stay in it for so long? Because these women live for the misery...and you may not believe that...but look at it again. Most likely, she wants you to be strong enough to fight with her and put her in her place.


Ask some women about this...they'll tell you all about this breed of woman.


And honestly, 99% of all women are looking for someone who is strong enough to put them in their place and not put up with their crap. These women just take it to an extreme.

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Hey ProphetSword -

When this whole thing started with this girl - my closest female friends, after the first month, said WALK AWAY - RUN AWAY - I KNOW HER TYPE, SHE'S NOT WORTH IT. They all told me to tell her off, she doesn't deserve being treated with respect. I didn't see it at the time, i got suckered in - but after all this has come down to where it stands now, yes, I agree she doesn't deserve respect or anything close to my friendship anymore. Thing is - it was her decision, not mine - i just accept it and move on.


The way I see it - telling her off will do nothing but satisfy me for about a half hour. That night, I'll regret having said anything. I have been firm with her - I dont play aroudn with this crap anymore. The thign is, with her, it was just different than all the others - it felt more real, the things she told me felt genuine (until the excuses started).


I'm not going to tell her off. I just walked away. I move on, and instead of appologizing to the hot young girl making eye contact on the dance floor, waiving me to come over - I go for it instead. I accepted who this girl is - and who I am to her. I don't want to tell her off - as far as I'm concerned, it's her loss. I know what I could have given her, what I would have offered, she chose to do with it what she did. I don't get suckered in by her schemes anymore - the other day she was walking around, sulking, all down and depressed - of course it hurt to see, but I no longer really cared - as far as I was concernd she just got teh boot from some guy she was chasing after.


She knows where I am - she knows how to reach me. She can call, write, do anything she wanted - the only thing I have left to say to her, besides "cold weather we're having" and "how's work going" is "You know where to find me, I'm all ears if you want to explaint hings - but other than that, you made your intentions and feelings clear, I moved on". I'm not going to tell her off, tell her how selfish and spoiled I think she is - i know her well enough that I know that won't do anything but add another guy to her list of guys who have said that to her in the past. She told me some of the horror stories with guys, the things they did and said - now I know why. THing is - I don't want to join that club - I was part of that club, and telling these women off is only temporary satisfaction.


That is for me, and my situation though - maybe thigns are different for you. I just knowt hat isn't the road I'm taking!!!!


No matter what either of us does, at least we're no longer stupid enough to fall for their crap. I do miss what her and I had once, because it has been 10 years since I felt such an amazing thing with someone like that before - but it was just one sided, I've lost nothing! I know that, but there is no need for me to put her in her place and tell her that - simply not worth my time or energy!


GOod luck with your chick - if you choose to tell her off, or not, it all depends on what you want from it. If you want complete separation, no nothing together, then tell her off. Myself, i hvae to work with this woman for another 2 or so months, see her everyday, I need to maintain a professional "fake" appearance with her. Even though I may still say "good morning" as we pass, I'm thinking "Hey Bit#$"! hahaha


L8r buddy, good luck!


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