AndieA

Last update. Well folks I guess this has gone full circle. He has told me he loves me. I do believe that you all helped me so much by tempering my actions, and things evolved. Wishing all of you peace, happiness, joy and love.

He was not secretive about the crisis. He called me about 10 times over the course of the 2 days he was gone to keep me updated. I guess I am just nosy!! But you all have given me the right direction and I thank you for that and glad I asked! OH I see the confusion. I meant I did not want to press for details about the ex-gf when he was dealing with a family crisis, which happened within hours after he told me about his ex-gf .

I would at least tell him how he behaves with your best friend makes you feel bad and could he tone it down. See how he reacts. His reaction should be very telling.

I appreciate this input very much!!

Thank you and Wiseman for the input, that is why I asked here, before "interrogating"!

Dr. Phil said something one time that addresses this. If you rob a bank and admit it, does that make it not a crime? I would like to think if this BF is in love with the OP as she states, he would discourage this kind of behavior from other women, especially the OP's supposed best friend. I agree with the posters that say she is NOT a friend. There is no respect in her behavior.

Things are still going very well, he took me on a trip where I met another brother and his best friends. But on this trip he revealed that his ex-girlfriend of 5 years cheated on him (Not sure he actually meant to tell me, he was describing how dear his best friends-who are a married couple- stood by him when his gf cheated on him). So it wasn't what he told me before, that she didn't want to move out west with him at some point in the future. But I imagine that a gf cheating is something very hard for him to talk about. It hurt him deeply. Between the time he told me and now, he had a family crisis during which I didn't want to press for details. And when he told me, I could tell he wasn't going to say anything else. I have learned how to read that in him. But I would like to try today during some time we will spend together. I am really curious about how did he find out, did he drop her right away, how long had she cheated, does he still have feelings for her. So my question here is, are these fair questions to ask?

Rooting for you and hope the Sunday date went well! That is how I met my boyfriend, his dog ran and jumped up on me. 🐕💖

I don't believe you can be "in love" with more than one person at a time. At least for me. That feeling is all-consuming, leaving no time or emotion for anyone else. But I am not everyone. Given the 2 choices, #2 for me, the bonding. I agree with the poster who said you can still have excitement with the bonding, the reverse not necessarily being true. With all that being said, I don't think what makes you fall for somebody is easily put into categories. Not sure I told the story of the identical twins I knew in high school (friends of my brother) but I was totally in love with one of them and couldn't give the time of day to the other. Their genetics were exactly alike. Why one and not the other??? I still can't answer that. Everybody have a wonderful Thanksgiving, I am still grateful to those of you who helped me with my issue a couple of months ago. Everything is absolutely perfect with my guy.

I agree. In these types of arrangements, the trophy trumps love. Sex is just a transaction, not a loving gesture. And I am exactly the same as you. I could not be intimate on any level if I am not extremely attracted to the person. But there is a whole industry of people who can. 🤷‍♀️

I think you will. You are on the right path. Keep the positive thoughts.

Batya: I know he meant it, she knew he meant it too. Is there anything else in life that matters??? That is all that matters! Once you fall for someone, they do became very attractive. My favorite story is about a pair of identical twins that were close friends with my older brother. They weren't attractive in the face at all. I fell for one of them though(crush) because of his personality, and all of a sudden he became good looking to me. And his brother was still not attractive. But they were IDENTICAL twins. I know no people -gender irrelevant -who are people of character, integrity, compassion and depth who would partner with someone who lacked those qualities. Definitely some of those people very much prize model-type hot looks - people are individuals after all - but they won't sacrifice the core values they have in order to be with a trophy looking person. I know several classmates who did this. Maybe not on purpose, but could not see past the beauty to know until after they got married. Then divorced. I was quite surprised how many men I knew in high school did this, all divorced. Because wifey wanted more money, or cheated, or their narcissism became apparent and intolerable, etc. And this is a small sampling of men. That being said, I do agree with you, they would not purposely do this.

I think this is a very interesting question, because I believe the average woman would actually be more attracted to the personality (A) more than looks (B), if the looks are part of a self-centered bore, and that this comes across in the initial meeting/conversation. But I do not think the reverse is true. I think men are much more likely to ask out, even marry, a beautiful woman, even if she is high maintenance, self-centered, gold-digging and boring. Just my observations of quite a few of my classmates, no scientific study I have done. I have also observed the men who complain that all women want are handsome rich men, are just as shallow when they choose women.

I think her talking with her friends in earshot of you is that she is throwing a hint your way. It is not necessarily so obvious to her how you feel. Maybe she thinks you should know how she feels. Please ask her for a date and you will get your definitive answer!

OF course there is a lot of information that we don't know. We certainly cannot know what is in your wife's mind or heart. But I do know that different women have different tolerance levels for abuse. And if you said some rude things to her, even if you were not aware of what you were doing, she heard the words. And that is emotional abuse. And she may have a zero tolerance level for it. I am sorry this happened to you, especially since you were "under the influence" of prescription meds. That is an issue that I have no idea how to resolve, since you need the meds. I know other women who just reach a certain point and then have had enough. A friend of mine grew up with a father who was alcoholic and abusive. She tolerates some emotional abuse but then it is over. Absolutely no going back. Thank you for your service and I hope things work out for you in the future.

You need to keep telling yourself some things to help get your mind off the fact that you think you love her. She is married. And the only she wants is your money. Why don't you think about (whether true or not) she is taking your money and giving it to her husband. She is NOT a nice person, no matter where she is in her psychological pathology. She told you all she wants is your money. At least she was honest about that! You are in love with the idea of her being someone whom she is not. Another trick is, find a woman you think is very physically unattractive, then think of your woman in that body. Would you still be pining over her? Just as a side note, I do not have a pretty face. And hearing that all you still think about is her beauty (nothing about how she treated you or any positive personality traits) "amuses" me. I have several male high school classmates who all married "beautiful" women. They are ALL divorced. These women cheated on them, were high maintenance, violent when they didn't get their way, and felt like they deserved a richer husband. I don't believe that all pretty women are like that, but I guess some learn because of their looks they can get away with a lot, "your" girl being one of them.

You are only 20, I wish you the best in the future. I don't think you should have a fatalistic attitude, but "not looking" can be very successful. I know this from experience. And as others have said, it is one of the greatest pains that exists, we have all been there, and I hope you can concentrate on your studies and other endeavors.

Since you all have an outside perspective I will stop communications with him, thank you!

I read your whole post, but I cannot tell for sure if you spent most of your interactions over electronic media, or in person. I have come to believe completely that relationships over electronic media have no value in real life. You can text and IM for a year and believe this is the person of your dreams, but then wait until real life meetings. It is never the same, no matter how honest you are electronically. I had a SCUBA buddy for 12 years and we went on diving trips and also played tennis in the same group, so I knew him pretty well as a person, in person (we were friends, we were both happily married). But when we texted or IM'd, he would seem like a totally different person. The agony I see on these forums is steeped in electronic relationships. I don't know how mankind got to this point. OK, enough of my little pet peeve rant! But I think it is important how much time you spent together in person versus electronically. So I agree with the others who say you cannot will somebody to return love. I cannot think of a situation where, if a man I loved told me he loved me, I would request time away or reject him. I also agree that you WILL find someone who deserves and returns your feelings. It doesn't seem like it now. The pain is excruciating and all-consuming. But it will get better. And you will thank your lucky stars that this didn't work out because of how good the right relationship will be.

I do not believe in the normal course of life he would kill himself or anybody else. I am sorry that is how this post came across. He values life and loves his boys and grandchildren. He did not mention the body disappearing as a threat, but in the course of telling me about some things during his graduate studies. This and his suicide thoughts in high school only ONLY became a concern to me when he mentioned last week how depressed he was. I have never heard him talk like that and didn't know if my final rejection would send him over the edge. I really do not have a lot of experience with depression so that is why I posted the question. In hindsight maybe it was just a transient feeling and he felt comfortable expressing it to me. Just to reply to some of the comments, we were friends in high school, IMO that was his decision if he could tolerate it. He dated other people. He also dated after his divorce. Maybe my becoming a widow gave him some false hopes because he never mentioned his feelings until that time, and hasn't since, except for the travel thing, and maybe I have totally misinterpreted that. He called last night and he sounded more upbeat and even told me he knows that he is not the one to make me happy. If just a friendship is okay with him and he knows that as 100% fact, is it wrong/dangerous? to remain friends. Sherry Sher yes I agree with your assessment. But I can't go back and change that, I can only correct it now.

It is just conversation. For example, "my mom just ran her car into her gas grill". Or, "so and so's Mom just went into the hospital".

I realize there will never be enough information for a 100% informed reply, but any advice at this point would help. Kind of a long story but I will try to be as brief as possible. I was in high school 50+ years ago, and there was a boy who proclaimed he was deeply in love with me. I did not share those feelings and we did not date. Although he took up my religion and hobbies to attend events where he knew I would be. Of course after high school we led different lives, he got a PhD and was very successful in his field. He was married and had kids. I was married and had kids as well. He divorced apparently after 20 years of marriage and I am widowed after almost 40 years. We saw each other when he came back to our hometown when his brother died, and I was still married. Shortly after my husband died, he contacted me to tell me he has still been in love with me all this time and sent me all these poems he had written over the years. I told him I could not deal with these emotions after my husband just died. Truth also being, I could never love him. That was several years ago and he lives half way across the country. He never managed his money well and still has to work. He claims he absolutely loves what he does so he doesn't mind working. He never brought up his feelings again except* (see below). However, he told me recently that he was on the verge of committing suicide back in high school because I would not go out with him. Also, he talks about when he was in undergraduate school (Chemistry major) how he and his lab partner proved to their professor they could make a body disappear. In other words the perfect crime. He has brought this fact up on occasion. He calls me once a week on a weekend evening just to talk. I don't think he has very many friends he can talk to. *He mentioned recently he bought an RV so the 2 of us can travel after he retires. He is an academic snob and very controlling personality which are 2 turnoffs to me. So ANYWAY, I feel like I should tell him that there will never be anything between us and I now have someone in my life whom I love and we spend all of our free time together. Last week he started out the conversation with how very depressed he is all of a sudden and hates his job. So my problem is, do I tell him what I mentioned above, in his mental state. Since he mentioned us traveling after he retires, I am afraid that he has the idea that we will be together. I don't want him to have this delusion, but I am afraid of his mental state now. What do you all think?

Hello everyone. I am updating now because I will be posting about a rather serious issue in another forum and that issue is tangentially related to this one. Things are going very well. He wants me with him during all of his free time (he still works), he wants to know what my daily plans are and tells me what he is doing and when he will be home. Whenever he looks at/uses his phone he tells me who/what etc. Not that I ever asked him or tried to look at what he was doing because it wasn't my business (I have seen in these forums where that is an issue between people but it never bothered me). We buy each other things at the store if one of us is going and the other is busy, you know, just things that define us as a couple. More now than before. I am optimistic but cautious.

I can just never tell if I'm too needy or my expectations are too high. Or if I'm literally just mentally ill and delusional. I feel like I genuinely can't tell if it's me or the people I date. There is an advice columnist named Carolyn Hax and IMO she has a very clear vision of human behavior. When correspondents would ask her, shouldn't he/she do this or do that, she would say that is irrelevant. What you need to ask is if you can live with that behavior. You will not change their behavior. And adults for the most part don't like to be told how to behave. Maybe your expectations are too high for this person. But is he worth not realizing those expectations? You have to decide that. In your post you spatter with saying, he usually is thoughtful, I know he doesn't like to text, he calls. That should mean something. I hope you have some interests/job/hobbies that can keep you occupied while he is away. That might help as well, and also maybe make you understand that a person can't always pull out their phone and call/text at any given moment. Remember there was a time before texting and cell phones when relationships thrived with the old dial phones and people truly could not contact each other in a moment's notice. No you are not mentally ill or delusional based on what you posted!

Quick update, things are going really well. Better than before. I don't want to say much more, I know this is silly but I don't want to jinx it! Hope all is well with you guys, as I really do appreciate ALL of your comments and advice!