Whirling D

Thank you for your encouragement. I guess that’s a good point and a good strategy. That is what I will likely do… Refrain from inquiring. but just for a matter of conversation, it was right around the time she told me about her miscarriage that I was telling her how I lost my career in 2017 in a very not so flattering way. She empathized with me and we talked about it at great length, and the next day I was worried that she would not find the stories I told her flattering. Thankfully, the next morning she told me that she doesn’t think that’s what I told her the night before made any difference as to how she felt. That made me feel validated, but I’m not really sure that my stories don’t add to her confusion, because in our cultural environment… Success means achievement, failure means losers. If you know what I mean. so, if she was to say to me in the next week, “tell me more about how it was for you when you lost your career… What did you go through and how did you manage to get through that?“ I would be hugely flattered that she wanted to connect like that on what was arguably the darkest time of my life… Arguably even worse than when I got divorced. so, and I’m not saying this is true or right, but I think talking about the subject may vary from person to person. I think some people would value having somebody that they wanna connect with ask them more about trauma like this, and others that may not care for it. And yes, I’m sure that it’s not an equal comparison to compare losing a child to losing a career. I do understand that. I get the impression that she wouldn’t think it is a big deal if I asked her again about it, because I think that she knows and trusts but I am just trying to connect with her in a deeper way. But I have no real way of knowing that, other than the vibe I have gotten from talking about other difficult things like that. but I’ll refrain from talking about it, one way or the other. Thank you for the nudge.

That’s a valuable thought, bat. I sometimes do wonder what is self-absorbed that I talk to her about and what is genuine caring. I do believe that there is both present, but for different reasons it varies from time to time. I think everybody operates with different ratios of care versus self interest, and I know that in relation to this relationship, my self absorption has been very high, and that’s due to the anxiety of impending loss, and the dread I would/feel if and when this thing tanks… And I would feel devastated, for all the reasons I’ve talked about endlessly from even before when I met this lady.

That’s probably a fair point, wise. Thank you. contrary to this, though, you’ve probably heard me going on and on when we first met how great she was about this and this and this… Maybe I’m just more prone now to pointing out the things that I think might be factors that will bring this thing down hard. I don’t want that, but I guess I’m just obsessing a little bit about that likelihood, since I’ve been down this road many times before

Thank you rainbow… But let’s try to not make how I experience this lady into something “dangerous and toxic”. Plenty of people in the world struggle with interpersonal relationships, and I always have, to a greater or lesser degree. This one seems different, since the stakes seem so much higher for me… Awesome lady. In many ways it started off with intense emotional and physical connection. I guess, subconsciously, I have this terrible feeling that this is my last hope for that kind of happiness and fulfillment. That sends my anxiety into the stratosphere. Who wants to approach their final years alone and isolated? Not me. But on the other hand, I struggle with feeling a healthy balance between desiring someone and needing someone. That’s not a disease in as much as it is a disability. It’s not the only thing in my life, and it’s not the only thing I think about it, but it’s the only thing I really write about on here… Last night I was busy working on musical things which was good, and I play out with my band and have fun… I still have things to keep me occupied, but clearly, my thought of her and what it could mean to my life dominates my mind space… That is likely due to my own attachment issues and trauma history. She has her own issues as well, so neither of us are perfect. It is also relative that I have a boatload of free time, even though I need that free time to keep most of my affairs in order… That free time allows my mind to wander a lot, and to speculate and overanalyze. That’s the downside of having so much free time. Otherwise, I wouldn’t want it any other way. I am likely guilty of much of what you are describing, but I wouldn’t characterize it as toxic. Less than ideal and somewhat smothering? That would be fair. Unhealthy? Probably. Most people have quirks and things that could be characterized as unhealthy, even the doctor lady. Will she ultimately be the right choice for me? At this exact moment, I can’t really say. I do say that I don’t want to self sabotage or push her away, because when I’m with her, things fall into place and we have a good time, and I feel a greater amount of connection with her. It’s when I’m away from her that I start to spin and feel really anxious… And I wouldn’t be surprised if she may be the same way.

Thank you everyone. I’m appreciating the feedback. I am very glad the doctor lady’s condition seems to be under control., From at least what she says. I don’t know a ton about that condition, but from the ladies that I have known that have suffered from it, it can be incredibly painful and concerning. I’m just glad it seems to be under control. She didn’t indicate whether or not she would have to have anything removed, or any type of surgery. she did tell me a sad story about 10 days ago about her losing a baby once during a miscarriage event. I think I’m going to want to ask her about that again… To get more of a feel of what she experienced. I think I brought up the topic of how she felt about not having kids for a second time… We had talked about it before, But I think I want to ask her about her miscarriage again… Just to try to get it further feel of what kind of impact it had on her, and may still. so, upon finishing our conversation last night she said something like… “I’ll send you a text when I get up there, since I won’t have a lot of time to talk on the phone…“. I told her that would be good, and joked with her to take a picture of the window because it would be nice to see what it’s like up there today… she had been bemoaning that the weather forecast was not supposed to be good up there. Early this morning she did just that, and sent a photo looking out the window… With the caption “grey day“. I was happy to hear from her, as I was happy to talk to her last night. my response to her text was… “Yes, but I hope you are happy to be where your heart feels full… 🙂 ❤️🌺💋” she read it a few moments later, but no response. I have no idea what a text like this from me speaks to her… Although at the beginning of getting to know her, she always said she really liked those kinds of texts from me. Don’t know if she still feels the same. The lack of response could be an indicator, but I don’t know in the not too distant past, she would have likely responded by sending me some hearts emoji’s, or a smiley kissing face emoji. Not these days. i’m not really spending a lot of time at this moment overanalyzing why her correspondence has really gotten dryer over the last week or so, because she still showing interest in corresponding, but I still wonder where her head is at… if I had to predict, I would say that I think she is likely wondering what I suspect she is wondering, which is if her and I are really the right fit for her. Likely as a result of the conversations we’ve had, and maybe even me pushing her a bit on them. It’s possible that the more I worry about it, and the more I push in that direction, the more likely she may to pull back. So that’s kind of what I’ve done this week. I just let her correspond in her own way and I haven’t pushed back at all. my natural tendency, which is what I did a couple of weeks ago, was to say to her within the first little while seeing her next… “So, Dr. lady… How are we doing right about now? Is there anything on your mind that Has been troubling you or you wanna talk about?” She responded favorably a few weeks ago when I asked her that question, I think it was the first time we went up to her Beachhouse on the drive up there… And it meant a lot to her that I was checking in like that and we were able to talk about what was troubling her. I am wondering now if I should say something like that to her when I see her next, or just try to drop it and move forward and try to offer a safe place for her to feel what she wants without being constantly scrutinized. I don’t think it felt scrutinizing to her last time. I think she felt valued and appreciated that I would take a little bit like that into what she was feeling. I think they both strategies have merit, but one kind of seems passive to me and the other seems proactive. thoughts?

It is hard for me to do this, but I did it tonight, and she reached out. It took her a while to get back to me, and once again I was anxious, but she did, and we had a nice convo. All good. Then her that says, “I will talk to you tonight, right?” We’ve talked about that before, and I get the sense that she is also anxious and feels the need to talk, but perhaps, for very different reasons. She enjoys and needs the contact, but maybe her anxiousness is less than mine, because, in many ways, she could be considered a high value woman. I’m not so much a high value guy, as I’ve talked about many times.

No, not at all cancer tests. She told me the other day that it was for a cyst that turned out to be fibroids.

OK, after all that fuss and worry, and me trying to be patient, although failing miserably, she did call me… I was at the supermarket, and sometimes it seems like she gets impatient when she thinks my attention is divided. (although that’s speculation). She hasn’t decided whether she’s leaving tonight or tomorrow, and she’s going to start packing and see how she feels… I suggested she could call me later during her trip up there, which is an hour, and then she asked if she decides not to go tonight, do I still want her to call, to which I said yes. I think a lot of my anxiety is centered around her demeanor, over the past week and a half… It’s been rather cranky and detached. I wonder if that’s just her baseline, and what I saw for about the first nine weeks was her responding to a new fresh relationship that offered hope from her admittedly lonely and chaotic life. I mean, I get it. I don’t know how she manages everything she has on her plate. Maybe this is just her settling into a routine, which I’ve said a bunch of times, as I wonder. so, for now, at least I can feel some peace. It felt good to hear from her.

Besotted…. That’s a fun word! I’ve never in my life heard that word. Wonder if I’ll ever remember it to use it ever again… so, in each of your cases, prior to you declaring exclusivity, did either one of you declare that you actually weren’t exclusive? Or, was it just not really discussed and each of you likely felt free to date on your own if you so desired? I know I didn’t word that well, but I’m hoping you know what I mean.

I think it’s the biggest issue as well, but it almost seems consuming to me, and I can’t shake this feeling of dread.

Bat, did you ever find yourself dating someone for a couple of months, including almost that amount of time having sex and sleeping together, doing lots of day trips, and all the things that couples do… Talking about the future, etc., and then find out later that the person was actually still dating someone else? I think that would be very odd and extremely unclassy… But what do I know?

Thank you, man… I needed to hear that. I appreciate it. Although, I do know that I will be watching for a response with bated breath. And anxiety. And then, if I don’t hear from her tonight, I’ll probably even be more anxious tomorrow Wondering if things are going even further down the tubes. again, if I do the DBT skill of thinking about the facts, there are so many reasons for me to know that there’s no major event that’s going to happen anytime soon, or at least I can hope there wouldn’t be based on those facts. Things are likely fine. It’s the not knowing that’s driving me Crazy. That’s also the most destructive part.

We haven’t really talked about dating others for a while, because I think it’s just a given, based on lots of conversations, that her and I are “together” and are a couple. evidence: just a few weeks ago, we were looking online for houses together… Knowing that it was far in the future. We are constantly talking about what we are going to do coming up, like this weekend, or that weekend, or, if you recall, a few weeks ago, we were talking about what vacations we can go on together. There’s been a slow down of that kind of talk, which is a bit concerning, and then her talking about me meeting family members in a couple of weeks… And how their impressions hold wait for her. It seems to me that that’s a pretty strong indication, that at least, for now, she sees me as her significant other. Until further notice. I don’t think there’s been much question recently that we are exclusive. But no, I haven’t actually said recently. “are there absolutely no other guys you are considering dating?” Upon thinking of that, it almost seems to me that her telling me last weekend that she’ll be interested in hearing what her family members think, or something like that, because she doesn’t trust her own gut feelings on things, based on the fact that she said she completely missed red flags with her last two boyfriends, and that her family members picked up on those things fairly quickly… That seems to somewhat indicate that the jury is still out whether she is locked into this or not. That’s not a comforting feeling for me.

OK, I hear what you are saying, but for the sake of conversation…. Absolutely they would be judging me personally. But what would that have to do with her? Does she really think that if some of her colleagues judge her badly because she’s with a scruffy looking guy that it would really make one iota of a difference in the greater scheme of things? Who does that reflect poorly on? It certainly wouldn’t be her. It would be the objections of the persons making judgments based on appearances. Do you know what I mean?

I do get that, and would be perfectly willing to do it… But how do you accomplish that without it being passive aggressive? One option would be to send her a text tonight saying “hi doctor lady… I hope you have a great time at your beach house, whenever you head up there… Give me a blast to say hi anytime you want… I wish I was there with you… :-)” I think that would tell her that I was thinking of her, but also leave it in her court to reach out when she wanted to. In the not so distant past, that’s probably exactly what I would’ve said. I feel awkward, saying that now, and my awkwardness may not even be warranted… I know that I had a suggestion like that a month and a half and ago, and many people on here, said that it’s unfair to her to say something like that, and it’s manipulative, because then it basically puts the onus on her to reach out, which they said was passive aggressive. So, I have no idea whether doing something like that would be useful.

Well, that’s almost exactly what I’m trying to wrap my head around… We didn’t say the usual “OK, I’ll talk to you tonight” so, I could conceivably just give her some space to have her weekend on her own terms… That would come with added feature of getting a sense as to whether or not, she might be struggling with something, because if I don’t hear from her at all, that would pretty much almost guarantee that something is changing. What it is, that’s changing I don’t really know. It might not be anything relevant. So in that regard, it may not accomplish anything by not reaching out to her tonight. A few weeks ago, there would be no question. We would talk on a night like tonight. That was almost a given. in fact, up until a couple of weeks ago, she probably would’ve called me on her way home from work on a night like tonight, when she knows we won’t see each other, but she has a 45 minute ride home from work. She also likely has a ride for an hour up to the beach house, if she goes tonight… So maybe I’ll hear from her later. Somehow, I get the sneaking feeling that I won’t. If I don’t text her or call her, I get this feeling I’m not gonna hear from her. That’s gonna make me even more anxious. But why wouldn’t I hear from her, given that we typically talk almost every day multiple times? That I can’t say. She would constantly say that she really enjoys talking to me and it’s important to her that we talk. It seemed to me that she almost kind of needed the company. I was OK with that, because I kind of felt the same way. That’s a bit of a codependency, but I don’t even mind that, as long as we are enjoying each other’s company, which we have been. so, I don’t know which way to go with that… Don’t contact her tonight and let her have the night to herself without bothering her, or at least reaching out and saying hi and tell her I hope she has a nice trip if she goes tonight or tomorrow morning. Just don’t know which one of those to do. The fact that I’m struggling over it it’s kind of silly, but I am. To answer wise’s question, she’s definitely going up to her beach house, either tonight if she has the energy, or tomorrow morning… She will meet a friend from the area up there, and I don’t recall how long the friend will stay. It might be until Sunday morning. I didn’t know she was going up there until last night, and I’m happy for her, because I know how much being up there means to her. I do feel a little envious, cause I’d love to be up there. But I have the kid here. I don’t know if I’ve mentioned that things went downhill in a terrible way last night with my kid, I guess I didn’t tell you guys that… I didn’t really talk much about it with her this morning, and she did lend a bit of empathy that she knew I was struggling with it a bit and knew it was hard for me. I told her I didn’t wanna drag her into that and I just wanted to talk with her and I tried to stay away from that topic, knowing that the daughter issue is still a little bit of a white elephant. I know I shouldn’t be beating myself up over this, but I’m just not sure that I haven’t complicated things with the hair conversation, or her coming down to the house last weekend. I thought we had a great time down here, but her now making it clear she doesn’t really care for my place might still be evidence to her that we are not moving in the same direction. And to finish off the hair thing… I don’t think I was ever conveying to her that I would never try to clean up for official professional engagements. I think I may have just articulated fairly clearly that it seemed rather judgmental for her to even ask. I didn’t say those words, but that may be the message that she got. I think that would be a reasonable message. Because in my gut of guts, I don’t think people should expect others to try to measure up to our preconceived notion of what we want to make us feel comfortable. That’s just my thought on it. But I’m not her. She probably felt that I judged her a little bit, and perhaps that’s true. Maybe it’s deserved. She said it sounded like I was being a little self-centered by not being willing to make changes to make others feel less likely to judge us, and I kind of turned it back around, in a fairly slick way, to indicate that I shouldn’t need to worry about that, since if the others judge me solely by what I look like that’s more of a reflection of their character, I have no interest in them. At that particular time, I don’t think she was buying that. Maybe she felt judged, I don’t know. I can’t carry her weight for her. I’m probably repeating myself, but it was well after that conversation, if I’m not mistaken, that she said, she was satisfied with how the conversation ended, which is that I clearly said to her, that I would be willing to do whatever it took to make her happy under such occasions. I’m just not entirely sure that she hasn’t carried that conversation home with her, and that’s why we haven’t spoken at all today, other than on the phone this morning. That’s becoming less and less, it seems. I don’t think there ever would have been a day two weeks ago that I wouldn’t have sent her a picture of something, or she wouldn’t have texted randomly to ask me how my day was. Don’t know if that’s a sign of anything or not. May not be, but it is making me a little anxious. but I know I’m repeating myself. I certainly wouldn’t want to annoy her by not following our traditions and checking in tonight. Do you think there’s a danger of me getting on her nerves or making her annoyed if she thinks I’m playing games with her, which sadly, might be true? I was even watching a video the other day when the psychologist was saying that it can be destructive when avoidants do things like that… They don’t call when they should just to see what the other person will do, or they don’t answer texts right away just to see what kind of response they will get. The psychologist called that potentially destructive. In that context, if I didn’t contact her tonight, that would stick out a little bit and perhaps make her feel like I’m making a statement, or something might be going on. I know that wise said it probably wouldn’t make much difference one way or the other if I contacted her tonight or didn’t. What do you guys think?

You are so right, blue, thank you. I do like her. She’s a decent, hard-working, successful lady. I find her pretty, and engaging, and easy to talk with about just about anything… Of course, except for hair, old houses, and religion? 🙂 I’ve been kind of depressed for the last few days, and it’s because I feel that something may be changing. The DBT skills that I kind of see in a small way suggest looking at what is fact, and what is in my head… You kind of laid it out for me. I think we both started by thinking that we were going to change each others lives, and as everyone has said, that’s kind of a fantasy. Now, that seems to be kind of passing by, because we are both seeing that beyond that glass mirror, there is a whole other scene. I like that scene, I’m just not entirely convinced she will, or does. But if I use the DBT skills… Here are the facts. Her and I are still talking morning and night. Is it all lovey-dovey? Not even close. Is it still very friendly and interested and engaging? Kind of. If it wasn’t for me. It seems to be all my problems that are coming to the surface. My inability to relax with what is. My considerable anxious attachment style, wondering if the bottom is going to fall out at any moment. All of the mental health theory says that they shouldn’t be things that are terrible flaws, but just understandable characteristics of someone who has come along the paths that I have walked, whatever that means. Dr. lady seems to relate well when I tell her the stories. She has her own stories. However, where I start to falter is when I feel that maybe I’ve been too dark and needy, although I haven’t really shown that much neediness, at least to her directly. Yes, we’ve talked a lot about things, but we’ve had way more fun and spent way more time doing other things than we have talking about needy things. It’s likely that we have just fallen into a routine as a couple, as likely a lot of couples do. But I keep looking at the things that indicate that maybe it’s falling further than that, and that’s when I start getting really anxious. I talked with my therapist this morning, and she was very encouraging… She likely said things that many of you would say… “What’s the big deal if she wants you to look differently for a professional outing? Why wouldn’t you say to her that you would do anything to make her happy?“ Well, I kind of did say that, but not in a hugely convincing way… Almost in a begrudging way. There is still part of me that wonders why anybody would ask me to do something like that, knowing how I want to be in the world, and what my value is… My value is to accept people for how they are, and not try to change them based on external factors. That’s really important to me. I would never ask her to do that, and most of the day I’ve been really depressed, trying to figure out how to manage that value and how it clashes with hers, and most other people. Does it mean because my value is different than many other people that I should be changing that value to meet the needs of others? My therapist said I could only answer that by deciding whether I want to make her happy by making the small changes on her behalf. I already did say that I would do that, but it also bothers me that I would even have to. It’s not in my wheelhouse to ask others to change in situations like that. I would expect them to be who they are, and if I didn’t like it, I had to either deal with it or step out. I would have almost expected the same for her. It’s hard for me to manage that not everybody feels the same way. I just don’t know how to figure that out. So, I don’t blame her for how she feels about something… But maybe I do. Might’ve been my therapist said that I’m judging her for the same things that I think she’s judging me for it… And that’s an inability to see something that’s a different and adapt to it. Maybe she’s right. Not sure. All I know is that I’ve been depressed with this feeling that things have been going downhill, when the facts don’t entirely support it… And then I thought maybe I was feeling down because I hadn’t had coffee as much, so I went out and drink coffee earlier today and I almost felt better immediately. Then there’s that. then there’s this passive aggressive, feeling that I have that tells me not to contact her tonight and let her be the next one to reach out to me, and see what happens. For all I know, I could probably go most of the weekend and she wouldn’t get in contact with me, and then I’d probably even feel worse. The only alternative would be for me to reach out to her, which is what I’ve done every morning and every evening, sometimes at her request. However, letting her reach out to me this weekend could be one strategy just leaving her be and letting her go and see if she eventually reaches out. Does that seem too passive aggressive?

well, I just spoke with her for a little while, and I shake my head at what I suspect I concoct in my own head. She seems to becoming with me someone who is not necessarily warm and fuzzy. She seemed happy as usual to hear from me, and although I had just come from a couple of hours of terrible conflict with my kid, she didn’t seem all that interested in making me feel better from it. No memorable words of consolation or empathy. That just could be my interpretation of it, though, but she didn’t really seem that interested. On the other hand, I told her I didn’t call her to tell her all about that stuff, so I tried not to involve her and mom was going on. She seemed kind of happy to hear from me. Smiling. Laughed at one of my stories… She just doesn’t seem that invested any longer. Doesn’t seem like she’s really trying to connect. It’s almost as if we are roommates or something. Like she could take me or leave me. Maybe that is her being in a stable place with us? I couldn’t say. I could see how that would be the case if we’ve known each other for years, but we’re still trying to get to know each other, and she still has this sense that she’s fine whether she hears from me and she’s fine if she doesn’t. Maybe that’s healthy? I think I create things in my head based on fears I get or anxiety that I feel… I.e., I haven’t spoken with her much over the last few days, and a lot of the lovey-dovey language has tapered down to almost nothing, and she sometimes she will read my texts during the day and just never respond. yes, when I talked with her, she still seems marginally glad to hear from me, and when we finished tonight, she said “maybe I’ll speak to you in the morning on my ride to work, if you are up at that time”. She knows I will call her in the morning. I have for the last several weeks. I really wanted to say to her, “are we in a good place? Are you struggling with anything related to us? But I refrained from doing that, because she seemed so stable, and in a reasonably good place. I have to wonder if this is her baseline… She knows I’m not going anywhere, she doesn’t have to be thinking that I’m going anywhere, so as far as she’s concerned, everything is fine. Me on the other hand, I have no idea what to think, or to expect, and there’s a good chance I’ve created all this doubt in my head. I can’t really say. Maybe what I’m experiencing is just a simple, normal relationship, but I’m so hyper sensitive from past experiences that I can’t even acknowledge that things are going reasonably well, and as expected, despite all the things I’ve been talking about for the last few days.

Well, we know that my own disposition and natural baseline is strewn with eggshells… 🙂 But yes, I think she was just joking with me in the way you are saying. However, often there is a kernel of truth behind every joke, and as you point out, it depends on which way you wanna look at it. I kind of knew what she was saying, and that is that she can be difficult. I don’t think it was presented really as an ultimatum. Kind of. Sort of. Well, I guess I’ll have to get used to it kind of thing… 🙂 As for the others’ comments… I think 10 weeks is about the point where you start to determine whether the differences we are encountering are deal breakers or not. I get it that some of you think that it was manipulative on my part to say what I said, during the hair conversation, and there’s probably some truth to that… But in many ways, I felt I said that in a moment of clarity… I was basically saying to her… There are three things now that have been brought up recently that she has concerns with. When is it that we have to make a decision as to whether those three things are going to be dealbreakers? That’s pretty much more or less what I said. To me it’s the truth. Do I really want to be with someone that has a list of things that are red flags to them? I had/have to think about that. She was not saying they are deal breakers, but one way, or the other, it was heartbreaking to hear all three of those things. I could never point out two of the three things to somebody I have known for 10 weeks. It does feel kind of controlling to me. Maybe that’s part of what was getting at me in that moment of clarity as well… “Well, you either can deal with who I am just as the person sitting across from you, or you can’t. you’re going to have to decide what you want to do”. Yes, that’s manipulative, but it’s also standing up for my self respect. In some ways, I felt disrespected. More than once. I know she doesn’t mean to do it in a blatant way , and I suspect it comes from her background, and her cultural upbringing… “Things are supposed to be this way… And this way…”. In the end, she backed down, which tells me that she respected my perspective on it, and maybe even envied the fact that I stood up for myself, the way I did. It’s a value thing. She values people that don’t make waves for her, and I don’t care about that stuff. I don’t care to make waves for anybody, but if somebody’s gonna feel that I am making waves, I don’t think that’s my problem. She kind of made it her problem by saying the things that she said. This was way more about her than it ever was me. So I had to kind of stand up for myself. And basically say, if you’re really having a hard time with these three things, then maybe we need to figure out whether this is the right fit, and whether I can fit in your life. I don’t feel that I can’t fit into her life. I sometimes wonder if I could, but I generally come around to believe that I probably could. I’ve always felt that it’s more likely that she won’t feel that I fit into her life. The religion, and the lifestyle, and then the hair conversations, all made me wonder if she has what’s needed to accept somebody different into her world. To me, it’s pretty simple. Either she thinks she can, or she can’t. I’m not sure any amount of time is going to clarify that for her. So, I do get the thought that there was a bit of manipulation there, but I think it depends on how you look at it. I laid the cards out on the table for her to see. I have always given her every reason to believe that I would be flexible in almost every situation, thus far… and the religion, the house and the hair are no different. If she can’t come to terms with what she knows of me already, then it’s time for me to put my cards on the table and ask her to ante up or fold. I hope she anteesup, and does not fold, and I have a feeling she’s not going anywhere anytime soon… But a week like this when her demeanor starts to change after we spent the weekend together, only tells me one of two things… Either she’s been thinking about these difficult conversations, and it is making things hard for her, or I’m just starting to see more of her baseline. Either way, it’s not a great look for her. Don’t get me wrong, neither of them would likely be complete deal breakers for me, but they definitely give me cause for pause. And they definitely raise my anxiety and insecurity levels. I don’t think that’s hugely unpredictable.

I might agree with what you were saying about too many issues for it not to work, if it wasn’t for the fact that, after each one of these conversations, she went ahead and said “well, I don’t really think these things are all that important, and it’s way more important that we were able to talk about these things and try to come up with solutions”. I do believe that. So, I’m only really telling you one side of the story. She may not think these things are any kind of big deal, and there is a chance that I’m conveying them as maybe they were a bigger deal to her. Only She could tell you how big of a deal they are.

I completely got what she was saying as well, but it was definitely contrasting to her behavior, which is that she wanted to go gung ho moving forward. Probably because she thought that was one of the few people she hasn’t met that she thought seems to “get” her. Her opinion of that might be changing, though, now she is noticing things that are different that are making us bump up against each other a bit. Do you feel that you and your husband have things like these that make you bump up against each other a bit?

She may believe a few of those things. During the first hair discussion, she tried to convince me that what I was saying was selfish, and that I wasn’t thinking of other people and how they may respond to me looking differently. That seemed rather shortsighted to me. However, all along, I have been saying to her, that I would do what I needed to make her feel comfortable in that kind of situation, but at one point, I did say that I felt no need to impress anyone else, and if those people didn’t like the way, I looked and judged me for it I would likely have no interest in who they are anyway. I think she thought that was shortsighted of me. I think she believes that we should try to please people around us, regardless of the situation, just to keep the peace and to make things flow smoothly. If it’s for her, then I would do that, if not, I don’t really care. If they have a problem, they can manage that. Has nothing to do with me.

I wondered about that, bat… because if she is an avoidant, attachment style (and I think Eileen a bit in that direction, but I think I am much more anxious attachment), but if she is avoidant, a common characteristic is to find reasons to push people away when things get too thick. I have thought about that. It’s well known that avoidants tend to self sabotage when things get a little too difficult for them to emotionally manage, because Theory has it, that avoidants tend to reside more in the facts than their emotions… I’m the opposite, I reside more in my emotions, and I’m learning to use the facts to determine strategy and outcomes.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m doing, and even why am writing all the stuff on here. Observing and trying to take it all in. I also know people aren’t perfect, and I say stupid stuff as well. I didn’t handle those conversations as well as I would have liked, and I had to go back and summer retract some of the impulsive things that I said as a response to some of those conversations… She has said many times that she really likes that her and I can talk about stuff and not let it get out of control, and that we can negotiate. I’m a pretty good negotiator, so I’d like to be able to come to conclusions that both parties can live with. She seems to respond favorably to that. I could probably handle a little bit of entitlement, and a little bit of insensitivity about stupid stuff like that, what I may have a harder time handling is continued, angry anxiety, like I saw, when I first got to her house on Friday, and the compulsion for everything to be perfect. That may not go over well in the long run, and I’m watching that closely. Thanks for the heads up. They are worthy and appreciated. 🙂

The other thing that is relative, is that that whole hair conversation was a judgment from her. That kind of deserves to be scrutinized. Clearly, everyone has their own preferences about style and life choices, but she was at least thoughtful enough to be able to admit that it made her feel awkward to have to deal with being arm and arm with someone that has an image that is not sometimes seen as… Well… As put together as a professional environment, mate? Think… Homeless people… drug dealers… Down and out rock ‘n’ rollers… She even went on to say that she knows she comes from a more conservative environment, and even said that her mother gave her a caveat to watch out for drug use with me, because guys with long hair are often drug users. The doctor lady acknowledged that her mother was way off base, but she knows this is what she is dealing with, and she said she is trying to cut those things off at the pass, and if she could encourage me to present a little differently, under certain circumstances, it would take the pressure off of her to have to feel awkward or defensive if she gets any flack for bringing someone that looks a little weatherworn to a professional gathering. It’s hard for me to know what to think about that, and the only thing I could say in return was… “Dr. lady, I can handle just about any crowd, if I need to, and I usually do it with a fair amount of skill… I’d like to think that my partner has the faith in me to be able to go into a situation like that, and handle myself in a way that would make her proud.” I don’t really know if that made her feel hugely better, but I ended it by saying I would do whatever was needed to make her comfortable under such circumstances. And I will. I went to my dads funeral, dressed in the first suit I have probably worn in 20 years, and a tie. Don’t know why I felt the need to do that, but I did. Nobody else in the family wore a suit. My mom said I didn’t need to wear a suit. But I did. I didn’t hate it. I didn’t love it. I just thought it was may be respectful, who knows. Didn’t end the world, and wearing a suit to a professional gathering wouldn’t be the worst of things either. She did ask me if I’d ever wear a tuxedo. I think I’ve only worn one once in my life 40 years ago. I don’t know where that was going. this is all for conversation, and just to get some perspective.