Flaking out?

[easyguy]

I don't have any reason to dwell on this, as it's way in the past, but I'd like some thoughts on this.

 

Some weeks ago I went on a [first] date with a girl opon initially meeting online. After a couple of email exchanges, we enthusiastically decide to meet. We do, and we get to know each other over a light early dinner. She and I have a lot in common. We split the bill and she gives me a drive home (because I don't drive, which she knew), then we exchange numbers to wrap it up. I call her two days later, but she's not answering her cell, so I leave her a message with the typical "Hey, what's up, call me back."

 

And that was the last I heard from her. No returned calls. Nothing.

 

Why would a girl, after going on a date, give you her number (and ask for yours), only to completely abandon you?

[annie24]

hm. a million reasons possibly. maybe after mulling things over, she decided there wasn't enough romantic chemistry to see you again. maybe an ex re-entered the picture, or she met someone else she liked better.

 

it sounds like you didn't do anything wrong, just the stars weren't aligned right for this one.

 

*sigh*

[Entomon]

She's just being courteous at the time but never really had the intention of wanting anything to progress further beyond your date. I know it's cold how she just brushed you off without returning your calls but she's probably on to someone else.

[easyguy]

I know it's cold how she just brushed you off without returning your calls but she's probably on to someone else.

I guess, but she hinted at the beginning that she wasn't experienced with dating. Neither am I.

 

I realize it could have anything from an insecurity to just not feeling the vibe, so that's why I haven't though about it. It's just interesting how some people can act.

 

Oh well, plenty of fish in the sea.

[heloladies21]

Some girls have this "policy" about not calling guys back in general, or she might've forgotten or been to lazy or just not in the mood to call you and then just forgot from there. In any case, it's not really necessary to know why, but you should try giving her a call again. After one date you can't expect her to make you the center of her world and from what you've described, the circumstances deserve another call.

[annie24]

Some girls have this "policy" about not calling guys back in general, or she might've forgotten or been to lazy or just not in the mood to call you and then just forgot from there. In any case, it's not really necessary to know why, but you should try giving her a call again. After one date you can't expect her to make you the center of her world and from what you've described, the circumstances deserve another call.

 

yeah, actually, I agree... can't hurt to call just once more. especially if she's inexperienced with dating, her mother or grandmother could have told her "don't call a guy back, he will keep calling you until he reaches you if he is interested!" (old fashioned, yes. but doesn't really make much sense in today's world of caller-ID and cell phones)

 

one more call or e-mail is fine.

[Entomon]

I guess, but she hinted at the beginning that she wasn't experienced with dating. Neither am I.

 

I realize it could have anything from an insecurity to just not feeling the vibe, so that's why I haven't though about it. It's just interesting how some people can act.

 

Oh well, plenty of fish in the sea.

The disappearing act is a classic route of escape. Take her cold shoulder as something positive because you'd rather that she be this way now than lead you on down the road.

 

You'll meet someone when you least expected. Keep searching.

[moondog627]

Yeah, get used to this man. You'll probably fall into situations down the road where you may get even further with someone only to have them cut contact with you. Happens to a lot of us. All part of the game. Never get wrapped up in someone early on. Protect yourself and just have fun. No worries about this chick.

[easyguy]

Yeah, I've learned to not get too attatched to someone early on.

 

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[Dating Coach]

I agree, it could be a million reasons. You did your job, you took her out, you were polite, you had fun and afterwards you called to schedule another date. She didn't answer and you left a message. That's it, bottom line. There's nothing more to do. The ball is in her court and if she doesn't call then that's your answer. If she ends up calling and offers an excuse as to why it took her so long to call you back, you should tell her that you don't appreciate being blown off like that and that if she wants to go out again she needs to make up for being so rude. If she doesn't call at all, forget her. If she only responds via the internet, she's trying to be as impersonal as possible (easiest for her) so forget her there as well.

[Dating Coach]

Some girls have this "policy" about not calling guys back in general, or she might've forgotten or been to lazy or just not in the mood to call you and then just forgot from there. In any case, it's not really necessary to know why, but you should try giving her a call again. After one date you can't expect her to make you the center of her world and from what you've described, the circumstances deserve another call.

 

I disagree 100% and you are making up excuses for the girl. The OP should NOT call again. He called, he left a message with his number. If she wanted contact she would be able to reach him. Would a girl do this to a guy she had a high level of interest in? No way. Obviously she doesn't care too much and in this case the OP needs to cut his losses and walk away.

[heloladies21]

If she ends up calling and offers an excuse as to why it took her so long to call you back, you should tell her that you don't appreciate being blown off like that and that if she wants to go out again she needs to make up for being so rude.

 

Do this if you wanna fail with women. I used to do it this way because I thought it was the right thing to do, but as soon as I stopped, I started having much better results. Girls do not respond to this type of behavior at this point in the game. They'll get put off because you're acting way too serious. You can tease them about it in a light and funny way, but don't directly confront like this. It makes you look insecure.

 

Ask yourself what you're trying to achieve here. Are you trying to protect your pride? Are you so sensitive that you can't handle a little bloody nose? Because you're expected to be a little stronger and more persistent than this, so instead of running away to the next challange (which at this point you should still be chasing other girls anyways), get back in there, stop taking all of this so seriously, and try and learn something.

[heloladies21]

I disagree 100% and you are making up excuses for the girl. The OP should NOT call again. He called, he left a message with his number. If she wanted contact she would be able to reach him. Would a girl do this to a guy she had a high level of interest in? No way. Obviously she doesn't care too much and in this case the OP needs to cut his losses and walk away.

 

I'm not making up excuses, I'm just aware of the world girls live in. To be honest, it doesn't matter what her excuse is. She owes him nothing and he owes her the same.There is no committment so each is free to do as they please.

 

You cannot attribute her actions to a lack of interest. She could have some other illogical rationalization like I mentioned before. It's a bad idea to run away every time something doesn't go your way instead of being persistent. If her interest level isn't high enough, try and get it up there. They won't always make you the center of their world after one date.

 

But this only works if you're talking to other girls and keeping your heart out of it (for now).

[heloladies21]

Read this article, it gives some good points.

 

link removed

[Dating Coach]

So you are advocating ignoring disrespect and to keep trying? I am sorry but that is 100% wrong. Standing up for yourself and refusing to be walked on is going to cause you to fail with women? No. It's going to cause the bad women to fail YOU.

 

Instead of getting off topic, let's focus on this situation in particular. Easy guy did a lot of things right. He kept the chatting online and over the phone down to a minimal level, he asked her out on a date, went, had a good time being himself. A couple of days pass and he calls and say's "hey it's me, give me a call" and she never did. That was several weeks ago. That's what he said happened.

 

Now ask yourself, would a girl with a high interest level do this to him? No. She went out on the date and has not called back, emailed, or anything in "some weeks". This girl has no interest in him and thus he should not waste his time pursuing this or worrying about it further. He left the ball in her court, she never served it back.

 

Now if she does end up calling him, why should he go out again unless she had a REALLY good reason for not having the courtesy to call back in "some weeks" time? Why should he keep trying when she has shown a low level of interest? If she wants to go out again, she needs to understand that he doesn't appreciate being ignored. If she has some interest still left in dating (she doesn't) then she needs to know that he finds the fact that she ignored him for weeks was pretty rude. That's a terrible way for her to start a relationship and she should know that. If she doesn't like the fact that he tells her that what she did was rude, then obviously she isn't worth being with anyway, and it's good he found out this early. Thus, he's not failing, he's succeeding in rooting out the bad girls quickly.

 

You see it all of the time on these forums where guys are getting led on, used, disrespected, and the guy keeps trying. This is extremely common. Guys have to be on top of these red flags and be willing to stand up for themselves.

Of course I always advocate keeping things on a light and fun level, but not when disrespect is in order-especially after only one date. For the girl to get another chance with me after something like this, she's going to have to prove her interest by making that extra effort. She wouldn't have had to do this if she had been courteous to begin with.

 

It's all moot though as this girl doesn't have a high interest level in the OP. A girl with a high interest level in a guy wouldn't want to risk making him mad by ingoring his call for "some weeks". She'd want to make a good impression. This girl didn't care.

[Dating Coach]

Read this article, it gives some good points.

 

link removed

 

I just went and read that. There are some good points there but a lot of it I have to disagree with. For one, Tyler (who I am familiar with) is asking a girl about what makes her tick and how she will act, when in reality some of the most misleading advice you can get about women comes from women. Most women will tell you what they think will work and how they think they will act, but that is very often not how they actually respond when the situation arises. Plus, a lot of it will depend not just on the words coming from a guy, but his tone, his body language, and who the guy is.

 

What I really don't like about that article is that he is basing his decisions on what this one (immature) 19 year old girl is saying works for her. Who isn't more contradicting and confusing in the dating world than a teenage woman? Kind of a silly way to attempt to figure things out...

 

Plus, the idea IMO isn't to continually try to work things out with girls beyond flakey behavior. If I encounter that stuff then I friendzone her. Life is too short and there are far too many wonderful women out there who won't put you through flakiness and indecision for me to keep trying with those girls.

 

Oh, and that's BS. You can NEXT someone who hasn't slept with you. If your goal is to establish a relationship and not just score, then NEXTing can happen at any time you want it to.

[easyguy]

I also forgot to mention that a few days after I called her leaving her a message, I sent her an email saying the same thing. And of course, no response from that either. It's not like it matters, but I'd just thought I'd add that little ending there.

 

And "some weeks" is maybe 4-5 weeks ago.

[Siriana]

forget about her

[Dating Coach]

I also forgot to mention that a few days after I called her leaving her a message, I sent her an email saying the same thing. And of course, no response from that either. It's not like it matters, but I'd just thought I'd add that little ending there.

 

And "some weeks" is maybe 4-5 weeks ago.

 

Okay, now there is no doubt in my mind that you should move on and not give this broad another thought.

[heloladies21]

So you are advocating ignoring disrespect and to keep trying? I am sorry but that is 100% wrong. Standing up for yourself and refusing to be walked on is going to cause you to fail with women? No. It's going to cause the bad women to fail YOU.

 

If you would really consider an unreturned phone call an absolute sign of disrespect then you might wanna work on your self confidence. A girl swearing at you you in public is disrespect, not this. And i'm not saying to ignore it, I said to tease her about in a playful funny way. It's communicating on a level which women understand, a language of subtlty which they find attractive. Address it in the way you're suggesting makes you look like a big baby who just didn't get his way.

 

He kept the chatting online and over the phone down to a minimal level

 

And this is bad advice that's been handed out by tons of dating "gurus". This is where you can develop rapport with a chick. Me and my brother make it a habit to have long conversations where we raise a girl's level of interest just by communicating with them. Learn how to communicate with women. Take every opportunity you can to do this. Do not run from them or limit your comtact because you're insecure about your ability to communicate with them. Practice this skill.

 

You see it all of the time on these forums where guys are getting led on, used, disrespected, and the guy keeps trying. This is extremely common. Guys have to be on top of these red flags and be willing to stand up for themselves.

 

True! But none of that has happened in this case at this time. The "relationship" hasn't progressed far enough to warrent this kind of behavior. We need to encourage guys to have thicker skin than this. This kind of ultrasensitive behavior is only gonna leave them looking and feeling like a whiney baby.

 

For the girl to get another chance with me after something like this, she's going to have to prove her interest by making that extra effort.

 

These are just unrealistic expectations given the circumstances. I promise you she will not respond in the way she would have to in order to succeed in your plan. It's leaving money on the table and at this point with this girl he has nothing to lose.

 

I think you lose sight of the main goal which isn't to "next" as many girls as possible until you find the right one, but it's to learn how to interact with women and this most certainly includes problem solving and dealing with difficult situations when they arise. Make the situation work for you. Experiment and find a way to get it done. There's always a way.

 

It's all moot though as this girl doesn't have a high interest level in the OP. A girl with a high interest level in a guy wouldn't want to risk making him mad by ingoring his call for "some weeks". She'd want to make a good impression. This girl didn't care.

 

As before, interest can be developed. It's developing attraction instead of waiting for it to "just happen" or be served up to you on a silver plate.

[heloladies21]

I just went and read that. There are some good points there but a lot of it I have to disagree with. For one, Tyler (who I am familiar with) is asking a girl about what makes her tick and how she will act, when in reality some of the most misleading advice you can get about women comes from women. Most women will tell you what they think will work and how they think they will act, but that is very often not how they actually respond when the situation arises. Plus, a lot of it will depend not just on the words coming from a guy, but his tone, his body language, and who the guy is.

 

You need to reread the post as well as many of his other pieces because he is not basing his advice on what she says, but on her actions and reverse rationalizations for what she did. He is the 1st to say (and I whole heartedly agree) that going to women for advice on how to deal with women is a bad advice because they're actions often contradict.

 

What I really don't like about that article is that he is basing his decisions on what this one (immature) 19 year old girl is saying works for her. Who isn't more contradicting and confusing in the dating world than a teenage woman? Kind of a silly way to attempt to figure things out...

 

This is based on much more than one interaction with one girl as Tyler has been diligently studying this for many years now. His advice is the center of what i've been studying and my success has dramatically increased since I found him.

 

Plus, the idea IMO isn't to continually try to work things out with girls beyond flakey behavior. If I encounter that stuff then I friendzone her. Life is too short and there are far too many wonderful women out there who won't put you through flakiness and indecision for me to keep trying with those girls.

 

Then you miss out on an opportunity to learn some very valuable skills.

 

Oh, and that's BS. You can NEXT someone who hasn't slept with you. If your goal is to establish a relationship and not just score, then NEXTing can happen at any time you want it to.

 

Well don't assume what he's after and after one date i'm sure he hasn't decided what he wants out of the interaction. Just sleeping with a girl on a casual basis can and often does turn into a relationship, and my advice would work for both scenarios at this stage.

[moondog627]

Both Heloladies and Diggity make good points. My personal opinion lies somewhere in between....

 

When dating you should never take things too seriously and never show any weakness. As you date more you'll become aware of the power struggle which takes place early in a relationship (a lot of times this struggle can carry on throughout). If you're lucky enough to find a relationship where you don't need to have this power struggle... then congratulations, enjoy it. But most times this struggle takes place as a means to keep ourselves in check and not allow ourselves to be hurt by the other person. There's many more uses to having the "power" early on, such as being a challenge, but overall it's best to have a very non-chalante attitude at first. Gradually, you and your potential mate can open up more and let the walls down, so to speak, but worry about that when it happens.

 

When it comes to contact, if you don't hear from a woman you probably shouldn't give up after one shot nor take it personal. However (and this is where I disagree with the link Heloladies provided) you should never continually contact a woman without receiving any signals back from her. The guy mentioned in the article that if he calls a woman and she doesn't pick up then he'll keep calling her that moment until she does. This is a BIG no-no. Most women will brand you a stalker and have nothing else to do with you. So if you don't hear from her right away, fine. Try again. But be out if you still see no results. In the OP case, I think he should walk. If the girl does contact you do NOT give her a hard time about it. Maybe don't bring it up. Act as if you never even noticed. She will be turned off if you get easily offended early in the game.

 

I agree with Heloladies that talking on the phone for a long time isn't necessarily a buzz kill. However, I wouldn't waste ALL your material for over the phone. Also, not having time to talk on the phone makes you look busy. But if you're caught up in a good conversation there's no reason to cut it short simply for the "rule" of keeping phone conversations to a minimum.

 

Heloladies is right in saying that you should vary up your game. Don't be scared to try new strategies. You might even be able to pull different types of women by changing things up. However, there isn't always a way. You're gonna fail. We all fail, even the best of us. The best relationships are the ones that feel effortless. There won't be all this work. These are simply "tools" to help you get in the door. The best attitude to take with dating is to ALWAYS BE COOL and not let stuff get to you. That's not to say you should allow yourself to be walked upon or disrepected. But a lot of times giving someone nothing is more of an insult than giving them a reaction. A good way to balance out your emotions is to date more than one person. I try to keep my "crop" at 2-3 women a time. Anything more can become too complicated. To the OP, you're a young guy. You have a long way to go. Have fun with this.

[heloladies21]

However (and this is where I disagree with the link Heloladies provided) you should never continually contact a woman without receiving any signals back from her. The guy mentioned in the article that if he calls a woman and she doesn't pick up then he'll keep calling her that moment until she does. This is a BIG no-no. Most women will brand you a stalker and have nothing else to do with you. So if you don't hear from her right away, fine. Try again. But be out if you still see no results.

 

Yes exactly, I disagree with this part of the link as well.

[Dating Coach]

If you would really consider an unreturned phone call an absolute sign of disrespect then you might wanna work on your self confidence. A girl swearing at you you in public is disrespect, not this. And i'm not saying to ignore it, I said to tease her about in a playful funny way. It's communicating on a level which women understand, a language of subtlty which they find attractive. Address it in the way you're suggesting makes you look like a big baby who just didn't get his way.

 

I don't think I said that you are being disrespected if a girl isn't interested in you. What I did say is that this girl isn't interested in him. What are you suggesting the OP do? That he call her up and tease her about not calling him back or returning his email from 5-6 weeks ago? I think he should move on. She's not interested. That's the whole point.

 

And this is bad advice that's been handed out by tons of dating "gurus". This is where you can develop rapport with a chick. Me and my brother make it a habit to have long conversations where we raise a girl's level of interest just by communicating with them. Learn how to communicate with women. Take every opportunity you can to do this. Do not run from them or limit your comtact because you're insecure about your ability to communicate with them. Practice this skill.

 

Bad advice is to advocate using the phone and email as a crutch to build rapport. Why do this? There is so much more chemistry to be had in person. That was a nice attempt to flame me by suggesting that I need to learn how to comminicate with women. I know how. I am simply advising to communicate with women IN PERSON.

 

Using the phone or email too much presents a very easy trap which could cause a person to become dependant on it. I don't know about you, but most women I have met have much more fun meeting up with a guy she likes in person, and then going out to have a good time. They definitely have preferred this to talking for hours over the phone like best friends. So why would you end up doing this with a girl you like? In the beginning you want to do all you can to be fun and exciting, which without a doubt is easier to do in person rather than over the phone or email. I'm much more versatile in person, as are most people.

 

I like to advise guys to move the relationship forward. If a guy becomes comfortable or used to chatting over the phone because of fear of coming on too strong, he could miss a lot of opportunites. Just recently a guy posted on these forums about how he met a girl who seemed very interested in him and they exchanged numbers with each other. He called her up a few times and talked for nearly an hour on each occasion. On each occasion she ended the conversation after about an hours time had passed. Eventually, she stopped answering his calls. Why was that? She wanted him to ask her out!! He never did! He was too nervous to take that step and was trying to become comfortable with her over the phone first and she got tired of it and eventually lost interest. She gave up on him, she needed more personal interaction. By playing the role of the nice phone conversationalist he failed to send the message of a confident guy who was going to be a blast to hang out with. Instead he sent the message of a good phone pal.

 

If you are an amazing phone conversationalist, and are very experienced with courting this way, I am sure you can do fine, but for guys who are inexperienced and nervous, the phone tends to end up being a crutch like the guy in the story above. It's far better to get to know the girl in person. Phone conversations lack body language, that face-to-face chemistry, flirting by touch, etc. I will always advise using the phone or email as a tool to set up a date, and that's it (excluding strange circumstances). If you want to have a conversation, do it in person. What is so hard about that?

 

These are just unrealistic expectations given the circumstances.

 

What's unrealistic? If the girl doesn't return his calls, she's not interested. It's been 5-6 weeks since he's tried to contact her a couple of times. My whole point is move on and forget her. If she had any interest something would have happened and she definitely wouldn't have ignored him for 6 weeks.

 

Can you turn someone around? Yeah, it's possible, but there is so much more opportunities and practice out there waiting for you. Guys so easily fall into "one-itus" so I will always advise to either move on once rejected, or keep your options open to other women.

 

I think you lose sight of the main goal which isn't to "next" as many girls as possible until you find the right one, but it's to learn how to interact with women and this most certainly includes problem solving and dealing with difficult situations when they arise. Make the situation work for you. Experiment and find a way to get it done. There's always a way.

 

How have I ever lost sight of trying to improve your game? What do you think I come to these forums trying to help guys with? Understanding the game is what I come here to help with. There is something to learn from every situation, and I think the lesson to learn here is that the girl isn't interested and the OP shouldn't waste his time. There is too much opportunity out there to keep treading down the same road.

 

Perhaps you think that the OP should try again with her in attempt to better his game, but I disagree. We only live a certain amount of time, and when a woman tells me that she isn't interested (and 6 weeks without returning calls is telling me loud and clear) then I will respect that and move on. There are unlimited women out there to practice improving your communication on. You don't have to continue to pursue someone who's made it clear that they aren't interested in you.

 

As before, interest can be developed. It's developing attraction instead of waiting for it to "just happen" or be served up to you on a silver plate.

 

No one ever said that. I've noticed you have been drawing conclusions out of nowhere quite often...

 

You need to reread the post as well as many of his other pieces because he is not basing his advice on what she says, but on her actions and reverse rationalizations for what she did. He is the 1st to say (and I whole heartedly agree) that going to women for advice on how to deal with women is a bad advice because they're actions often contradict.

 

Maybe I will read it again, but it definitely looked like that to me. I'm not suggesting that is all Tyler does, but in that post it looked like it to me. Also, Tyler is just one guy with one way. There are a lot of ways to succeed and improve. You dissed on "other" dating guru's so maybe you should keep your mind open to other points as well.

 

Then you miss out on an opportunity to learn some very valuable skills.

 

No, I retain the opportunity to learn those skills with other women, while working on my approach, and at the same time increasing my chances of finding a more compatable partner.

 

I am not saying that you can't continue to flirt, tease, etc with a girl whom has made it clear she isn't interested in you-unless she is avoiding you. 5-6 weeks? Something should have done long before now if at all. Just don't keep hoping that her no will turn to a yes. That's putting too much focus on one girl-in dnager of "oneitus"-especially one whom has expressed she isn't interested.

 

Well don't assume what he's after and after one date i'm sure he hasn't decided what he wants out of the interaction. Just sleeping with a girl on a casual basis can and often does turn into a relationship, and my advice would work for both scenarios at this stage.

 

You really should stop putting words into my mouth. You've been doing a very good job of that. I believe I made a statement that you can next anyone anytime you want to in response to the comment that said you can't next a girl you haven't slept with.

[annie24]

I disagree 100% and you are making up excuses for the girl. The OP should NOT call again. He called, he left a message with his number. If she wanted contact she would be able to reach him. Would a girl do this to a guy she had a high level of interest in? No way. Obviously she doesn't care too much and in this case the OP needs to cut his losses and walk away.

 

well.... since we are debating

 

In "The Rules", it says that a woman should let a guy keep calling her until he gets a hold of her. According to "The Rules", if a guy likes you enough (and has a high interest level!), he'll call again until he gets you!

 

If she is old-fashioned, or has "The Rules" book, she may possibly be following this advice.

 

or, for whatever reason, she may have not gotten her messages. could be a phone glitch.

 

just as easily you can say she does not have a high interest level for not calling him, I can easily say he does not have a high interest level because he didn't try calling her 2x!