hi, what's the difference between a woman's male friend and

[NJRon]

Ok, let me rephrase and say "physical intimacy"...

[monsieur]

ok, then that is better.... I think alot of women are scared into keeping a so called "friends" relationship cooled off because they are afraid of the sex or can't picture the sex part, but if that was just put on the backburner and not thought about even, it could be so much more relaxed and fulfilling and after 'friends' became more comfortable with some touching it might progress toward more intimacy and cuddling etc as they take it one step at a time and it doesn't seem so drastic..... if I am friends with a girl and want more out of it, I don't want her to instantly assume I am asking for sex and have a kneejerk panic reaction to the thought... just as friendship is a slow building process, I think friendship can slowly segue into more without just having to be an overnight instant 100% shocking change, which your sex or no-sex definition entailed.

[heythere1234]

So you are saying there is no such thing as no sex before marriage?

 

Ummm....Nooooo.....again.....I didn't say anything remotely like that.....sorry but you're kind of a weird dude.

[monsieur]

ok we are arguing word choice now

 

I think the basic original question was the difference between being a woman's male friend and being a woman's male BOYfriend... that seems obvious to me what the original poster meant.

 

Now you have turned it in to a simple sex or no sex thing, then you deny it and call me weird.

 

I expressed disappointment that being more than a friend had to automatically mean sex to you. I think there is way way more to building a friendship to more than a friendship that has nothing at all to do with sex. That is my point.

 

You can call me weird all you want, but I think you have a one track mind.

[heythere1234]

NO...it didn't say BOYFRIEND, it said LOVER! And what the bleep does sex before marriage have to do with anything?? Don't know where you came up with that one!

[Dating Coach]

It sickens me because I see slimy guys get a girl to have sex right off the bat, and instantly it is a 'lover' relationship, whereas a good guy might court and develop a quality quality relationship with a girl and fall deeply in love with her for many many months and not have to have sex involved. Which relationship is better may I ask?

 

Why are you comparing just two possibilities? There are tons! Sex is a completely normal thing, and just because a couple doesn't wait till they get married doesn't mean that the guy is "slimy".

In fact, I find it kind of offensive that you would only refer to guys as "slimy" as if women are perfect little innocent creatures and men are just big bad monsters. C'mon, in most bad relationships I have seen, the women were just as equally guilty of how it turned out as the men were. I don't know why you would say what you said. I guess it is because you always end up the "friend" of the girl and all you hear and care about is her side of the story-which makes it look like problems are the fault of the men.

[Dating Coach]

I think you need a serious rude awakening as far as how girls think. I think you have a very bad misunderstanding here, and I think part of it is because you are always the girls "friend" and you also buy into the romance novel relationship.

 

Women are JUST AS BAD as men when it comes to relationships. Women ARE NOT innocent little creatures that are sad victims of the aggressive man. They are not constantly "afraid" of relationships, they are not "scared" of getting intimate, etc, etc. Some of the most sexually aggressive people I have ever met are women, and you wouldn't know it until she was interested in you sexually. Your whole point of view of how women are seems to be a fictional one. Life is DEFINTIELY NOT a romance novel. You're going to be in for a rude awakening.

[monsieur]

So I'm completely wrong on this one?

 

It should either be a friends only thing, or else if it is more than that that sex is the important thing? Maybe I do have a different view on things than most people, if sex is what it is all about then that is the way they want to live their lives.

 

I can get sex at anytime I want with some loose girl that means nothing to me, what the hell good is that. What I am looking for is a deep deep best friend loving lover relationship, caring, holding, thinking about, loving..... sex has nothing to do with that , sure it can be part of it, but it doesn't have to be, and the other stuff is way more important...... that is why I took offence in the first place, because I believe the original question that was answered so bluntly with "the difference between the two is one is getting some and the other isn't"... that was so rude and offensive.

 

So the original poster used the word difference between friend and lover, bad choice of words as many seem to assume 'lover' means 'one to make love with', whereas I think it should be 'one who loves'.

 

The ambiguity could have been avoided if the question was phrased 'what is the difference between a boy friend and a boyfriend? And I sure as hell hope that 'having sex' isn't the answer to that one.

 

ok, heythere, since I've misunderstood you so much so far, what is your answer to that question? what is the difference between a boy friend and a boyfriend?

[heythere1234]

I think you need a serious rude awakening as far as how girls think.

 

Me too. But diggity, to be honest I'm starting to think this monseur is actually feigning his inability to grasp every simple concept because it is an attention seeking mechanism for him, and he somehow enjoys arguing. I'm just gonna ignore him if he keeps being so odd and obstinate.

[monsieur]

I wasn't attention seeking, it just simply touched a nerve in me, that is all.

 

I guess I am out of the mainstream way of thinking. I feel like I really want to get to know and connect with a girl before sex should be even a consideration. I don't like the idea of having sex with a girl that I hardly know and are not in love with. For me, I have to start out as friends with a girl, and I would hope to end up as her boyfriend too, well before any sex is involved. I want the connection, the love, the intimacy, all of that well before any pressure of sex is involved.

 

ok, so Im not just wanting to argue, I feel it is an important point. I remember when I was younger how much pressure I felt to have sex with a girl as soon as possible, it comes from friends and peers, if you are hanging out with a girl and haven't had sex yet they would look at that as some kind of failure, like 'you aren't boyfriend and girlfriend yet until you have had sex'. I still feel that is so wrong.

 

So for me the important question is 'what is the difference between a girl friend and a girlfriend?', I think it is just different stages of the same thing, of course not all progress to the next stage, but a girlfriend should start out as a girl friend, and the turning point (which may be a gradual thing) shouldn't be based on sex.

 

This makes sense to me, I don't know why you think it is just attention seeking.

[NJRon]

The difference between a girl friend and a girlfriend is passion. If there is no passion, they will forever be a friend. Whatever you want to call it... whether it ranges from "intimacy" to full on sex... there is passion involved in a romantic relationship.

 

That's the difference.

 

It's not different stages of the same thing. It's two entirely different things.

[heythere1234]

true njron, no doubt!

[eljose]

Monsieur, no offence, but you are thinking about all of this way too much and way too deeply. There is an ebb and flow to life and relationships. What works at one moment is incorrect two seconds later.

 

You are off of the mainstream no doubt. Try to accept and empathize with some of the advice you have been given as opposed to picking it apart and making it fit a text book. There is a subtly to this that seems to be escaping you. Assume it may be true even if it makes no imediate sense to you. It may make alot of sense to someone else that you are trying to connect with.

 

Relationships are rarely orderly. It helps to loosen up.

 

I have a close female friend that picks her relationships apart in the same way and she has been alone for decades. She is bright, funny and attractive but all for no good. She is excessivly rigid about how relationships and people should be and sends off major vibes that scare away men.

 

She dislikes being alone, but does not want to accept that people do not think and relate to each other the way she would like.

 

Good luck.

[monsieur]

thank you for the thoughts

[Dating Coach]

monsieur, the impression I am getting is that you have this predetermined idea of how a relationship would be. You seem to be flabbergasted at anything that would be slightly off-course from that, even if it had the same destination.

 

Even when someone makes a very broad point that the difference between friend and lover is sex and no sex. That's a very broad statement, but it also holds a ring of truth. However instead of just understanding that there is truth to that statement, you seem to be caught off guard and at a loss. In return, you make a very specific judgement assuming that the person is saying THIS IS HOW IT IS, FRIEND=NO SEX, LOVER=SEX. Instead of taking that comment in stride as there is some truth to it, you took it to a whole new level. I do not think that the person saying that meant for you to look at it in such a way.

 

As far as relationships go, OF COURSE the relationship isn't just about sexual relations. That should go without saying. It appears to me you are getting defensive and are grouping all relationships into what that one comment said-as if that comment was meant to mean ALL relationships.

 

A happy relationship is about love, caring, romance, etc. but that is NOT EXCLUSIVELY what it is about. It also has equally to do with, respect, challenge, confidence, chemistry, etc.

 

If you walk around on this dreamy cloud thinking that love life will be like a romance novel, and you try to make it like that by professing your love to someone, telling them you are true and faithful, etc, and you ignore other things, then you will continue to fail. You must also be exuding self confidence, self respect, etc. No relationship is perfect, and there WILL be many fights. If you think a true relationship won't have fights then you are naive. If you think that you will make a great partner because you won't fight with your significant other, then you are in for a rude awakening. There WILL be fights, and in order to have a truly successful relationship, you MUSt wage those battles. If you holdup a white flag and say, "Baby, I love you, whatever you want I give in" then your partner will lose respect for you. If they lose respect for you then their love diminishes as well.

 

There are a lot of things that go into meeting someone, courting them, falling in love, and living happily ever after, and I think you have your point of view because you don't have that experience to know what it is REALLY like. Not that it is bad, it really is GREAT. I recently got engaged and I don't think I could ever find a better partner. She is amazing! But there have been some bad fights, and there still will be. It shows the strength of your relationship when you have those fights and walk away a stronger couple than before. We have done that.

 

So in meeting people, you aren't going to have a fairy tale. You ARE going to have to wage some battles, you ARE going to have to make some adjustments, you ARE going to have to overcome obstacles while staying strong. You may even go through a few disasters along the way, but if it is true you will overcome them.

 

If you expect to have, "Boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl, girl falls in love with boy, boy and girl live happily ever after" and its as simple as that, then you are out of your mind with inexperience. Love is very important, but you CANNOT jsut have, "I love you, you love me" You both must also love yourselves. Loving yourselves means that you will have some battles because there will inevitably be a conflict of interests, and you CANNOT ALWAYS have your love for her interests overwhelm your love for yourself interests. Because she will lose respect for you and her love will diminish until it's gone forever. You see it all of the time with relationships where the guys cries, "I gave her everything!!! Oh why did she leave/cheat?!!!" It's because he was too inexperienced to know that you must refuse her, stand up to her, argue with her, etc to show thatyou are a person worth loving.

 

If you think a woman wants a yes man, then you are wrong. No good woman worth being with wants a yes man.

[monsieur]

thank you for your thoughts, I'm taking it all in

 

it sucks a bit though, because I wish my girl was a 'yes-girl', I think it would match well with my 'yes man' tendencies

 

I am not as inexperienced as you think (or as I must sound), I have had a few long term relationships.

 

My personality is such that I almost never will fight, I might resent if mistreated, but I pretty much avoid fighting with someone I care about, I could go through a whole relationship without a single fight.

[Dating Coach]

My personality is such that I almost never will fight, I might resent if mistreated, but I pretty much avoid fighting with someone I care about, I could go through a whole relationship without a single fight.

Would you rather let it go than stand up for yourself if the object of your affection insults you or disrespects you?

[monsieur]

I often might, I just don't feel the urge to fight and it really doesn't bother me enough. I get over things really quickly and don't hold grudges, so I am pretty easy going that way and can put up with alot without it really phasing me.

[heythere1234]

Is that really true monsuer... you've complained a lot on here about how disappointed youve been and how you've been treated...

[monsieur]

I guess you have a point, but if I am getting love along with it my tolerance quotient goes up majorly.

[Dating Coach]

When have you been getting love? Sounds to me like you've been getting anything but love. In fact, you seem truly bothered by your situation, you seem upset and down, but you still have yet to be able to stand up for yourself and understand that you have every right to fight for what you want.

 

This is your problem. That, and your inability to think any other route is good. As in the other thread when someone posted that link, you thought what the link said was terrible, and there was nothing terrible about it. It was true, and it was life. You seem to think your sneakly spineless approach is the only "right" way when in fact, it is the wrong way.