call this one back or forget it

[nogame]

today was date day.

i'm going to write this synopsis, then i'm going to have a drink.

 

 

thursday i send her an email saying 'i'll see you sunday', to remind her.

 

later thursday, she calls me up and asks me to go to a wine tasting with her, i tell her i have plans and can't make it.

 

saturday, she calls me and leaves a voice mail saying to call her. i'm not there so i leave a message saying call me back. she calls back, but i'm in the shower - so she leaves another voice mail. i call her back, she's not in so i leave her another voice mail. she doesn't return my call, so i go off to a club with my buddies.

 

sunday, i get up and show up at the coffee shop, i wait for a half hour and she does not show. she doesn't call either. i get home two hours after when we were supposed to meet. i check my email, she sent me an email saying

 

subject: Let's Meet

 

I would still like to meet you,

but I don't think I can make it at that time.

 

I tried calling you yesterday -- twice! I

wanted to hang out. That's OK. We'll get

another chance. I'll call you when I get

offline.

 

-------

 

she does not call until 10:30 at night. this is a summary of the conversation:

 

 

1. casual chit chat, i don't complain about the earlier flake, try to stay cool and casual.

2. i tease her and call her a 'dork', we banter a little. this is going really well - she tells me that she really likes one of my pictures.

3. she starts jabbering on about how her life's so busy and how she has all these parties to go to

4. she informs me that she has three days off from work next week, during which i say 'well let's hang out'. she says yes. then ... i try to nail her down to a date and time, i'm not sure i should have done this, but i asked her 'when?', she said 'sometime next week', again i ask 'when'. she says 'sometime', at which point i'm sick of her so i say 'well i'll talk to you later', then i hang up.

[annie24]

uggg.... so, why didn't she show up today?

 

she sounds like a real flake.

 

NEXT!!!!!

[nogame]

she called back, now i'm talking to her again...

[PocoDiablo]

today was date day.

i'm going to write this synopsis, then i'm going to have a drink.

 

thursday i send her an email saying 'i'll see you sunday', to remind her.

I would not have done that. I think it's better to build anticipation. This is like a "hook" to try and get her to reply "Yes" and telegraphs low self esteem, lack of confidence.

 

later thursday, she calls me up and asks me to go to a wine tasting with her, i tell her i have plans and can't make it.

Good move. You didn't let her take control of the date which would have allowed her to friendzone you. However, this move on her part says to me she wanted to get drunk and let something happen... It might have been a good opportunity to take. I'm 50-50 on this.

 

saturday, she calls me and leaves a voice mail saying to call her.

Yeah, she's cancelling. As soon as you got this message you should have known something was up. Did you wonder if that was occurring?

 

i'm not there so i leave a message saying call me back. she calls back, but i'm in the shower - so she leaves another voice mail. i call her back, she's not in so i leave her another voice mail. she doesn't return my call, so i go off to a club with my buddies.

Phone tag.

 

sunday, i get up and show up at the coffee shop, i wait for a half hour and she does not show. she doesn't call either. i get home two hours after when we were supposed to meet. i check my email, she sent me an email saying

 

subject: Let's Meet

 

I would still like to meet you,

but I don't think I can make it at that time.

 

I tried calling you yesterday -- twice! I

wanted to hang out. That's OK. We'll get

another chance. I'll call you when I get

offline.

 

-------

 

she does not call until 10:30 at night.

This was totally rude of her. I'd be livid. She should of had the decency to call you the morning of and cancel, or at least leave a message stating she could not make it. I'm done with her.

 

Heck, you should have told her that it didn't matter when she stood you up because you actually had a great time since one of your friends happened to show up, or you went to "their" house (not his, not hers, pay attention) and did some stuff. Give her the impression you met a woman, but don't say it. Don't EVER talk about other women. Just that you saw a "friend" and hung out.

 

this is a summary of the conversation:

 

1. casual chit chat, i don't complain about the earlier flake, try to stay cool and casual.

I would have told her straight up that she should have left a message saying she could not make it and she wasted my time. I would have asked her if she thought she deserved another chance, and if so what she was going to do to make it up to me.

 

"So what's up with YOU, huh? I mean, you call and leave two cryptic messages but can't tell me you're going to flake? For shame, I thought you had more manners than that! It didn't *really* matter since I hooked up with a friend, but still! So what are you going to do to make it up to me? Home cooked meal sounds fair. Or you could wash my car. How about darn my socks? Are you good at anything else? " FLIRT. With any luck, she's going to get upset, and then you can poke fun at her for losing it.

 

2. i tease her and call her a 'dork', we banter a little. this is going really well - she tells me that she really likes one of my pictures.

Good, but she didn't like it enough to meet you in person, so who cares?

 

You should have busted on her. You're kissing up to her. Tsk, tsk.

 

3. she starts jabbering on about how her life's so busy and how she has all these parties to go to

Excuses that she cannot see you? Yeah.

 

See, you SHOULD have busted her for not showing up because now she realizes you are desperate to see her. You're letting her do anything she wants because you think it makes you more attractive.

 

Guess what Sparky? It doesn't. She wants someone who will CHALLENGE her. This like playing cards. You're showing her your entire hand so she can win. What's the point of playing cards with someone if they let you win every hand? It's booooooooooooring. Play to win! Kick her a**! Don't let her get away with ANYTHING. Chess, checkers, cards, tennis ... whatever your sport is ... video games ... if the other player lets you win, it's boring. You're being boring.

 

So now since you have no been a challenge, and you are instead rolling over to try to get her to give you more attention, she realizes it's anti-challenge. Excuses are her way of saying "I can't make time for you." Really, if you had been a challenge, she would have done everything in her power to see you. I mean ... Mr. Wonderful versus a party? Which is more important? Apparently she has LOTS of parties to go to, so she could easily skip one to go on a date with you. If you had been hard to pin down, if you had stood up for yourself, if you had busted on her, she'd be all over you right now.

 

You're done. You were too "hungry" by not making a stink about her standing you up, like most guys with some self-respect would have done, and now she's trying to get rid of you.

 

4. she informs me that she has three days off from work next week, during which i say 'well let's hang out'. she says yes. then ... i try to nail her down to a date and time, i'm not sure i should have done this, but i asked her 'when?', she said 'sometime next week', again i ask 'when'. she says 'sometime'

You're trying to nail Jell-O to a wall.

 

You can't ask "When?" and expect to get an answer. You have to name a time and place.

 

GUYS, when you ask a woman out, you have to show her you're a take-charge kind of guy. ALWAYS NAME A TIME AND PLACE.

 

Let's go over this again, and show you how it should have gone:

 

OLD VERSION:

> she informs me that she has three days off from work next week

> i say 'well let's hang out'.

> she says yes.

> i asked her 'when?'

> she said 'sometime next week'

> again i ask 'when'.

> she says 'sometime'

 

NEW VERSION:

> she informs me that she has three days off from work next week

> i say 'So which of those three days are you going to use to make it up to me for being a complete flake the other day?'

> she says 'What?! I didn't flake, I called you twice and you didn't pick up!'

> you say 'Oh please, such a weak excuse. You KNOW you didn't leave a message! I think you need to ... hmmm... how could I punish you? What would you hate to do?'

> she said 'I don't have to do anything!'

> I say 'Oh yes you do, you want to prove to me you're not some flake, right? I mean, come on, you're not a bad girl, are you?'

> she says 'no, of course not!'

> I say 'Okay, I think you need to either make me a nice homemade dinner, and that means NO TV DINNERS ... ha ... or you can take me someplace nice. So which is it?'

> She says 'Well, I do know how to make home made pasta, do you like Italian?'

> You say 'Yeah, I do, what else are you going to make with it?'

> She says 'Home made sauce with chicken parmesian on the side.'

> You say 'Okay, that should work. I'm free Tuesday at 7:00. Sharp. ON TIME. Can you handle that? And no cancelling, this is in stone.'

> She says 'Yeah, I can do that.'

> You get her address and then wrap up.

See how that goes? You have to flirt here, joke a little, play, don't be serious, but don't let her see your cards either.

 

Anyway, you're way too desperate and it totally shows. You should have busted her on #1 of the conversation. Things would have been totally different if you had said "Well, I'm not sure if I should waste any more of my time on you, I mean you blew me off, you didn't leave a message saying you couldn't make it like most people, and now you're giving me all these excuses. Come on, you must think I'm stupid! Why should I give you another chance, huh? Are you gonna wash my car or something to make it up? You KNOW you'll get water dumped on you, of course, and I know you don't want to have that happen!"

 

Flirt with her but BUST HER FOR BEING A FLAKE. BUST HER FOR NOT LEAVING A MESSAGE. BUST HER FOR STANDING YOU UP.

 

See, she has no reason to respect you. She stood you up, and now you're begging to be stood up again. It's immature on your part and not very many women want a guy to be like that. They want a guy to act like an adult!

 

What can I say? Stop rewarding her for treating you like dirt. Have some standards.

 

You know what. #1 in your conversation really bothers me because I used to do it all the time. You kept your mouth shut to avoid a fight, to avoid problems. However, it really is the #1 problem you have. You don't stand up for yourself, do you? >>>> You have to get over this.

 

Realistically I find that speaking your mind in a CALM manner will get you 1000 times further. Had you spoken your mind on #1 and told her that if she wanted to make it up to you she had to make you dinner AND dessert at her place, and it had better be good, you might of had a chance.

 

She's done with you at this point, and you need to be done with her as well OR ramp up the effort a lot. Stop giving up so easy, stop taking her excuses, stop kissing up to her. BUST HER.

 

at which point i'm sick of her so i say 'well i'll talk to you later', then i hang up.

You finally got the hint. She's been desperately trying to get off the phone with you since you are too hungry.

 

Next time say "That's great, we should hang out, but I'm busy all week." Let her know she had one chance to get with you, and now you are going to have to be convinced to see her again. "Hey, that's great, but I'm not going to let you stand me up again! Ha! You think I'm that easy? Nah, I've got other plans, you should have tried a little harder."

 

Now that dynamic won't quite work because she knows you are too hungry, so this probably won't work any more. Overall, though, you have to stop being so desperate. SLOW DOWN. Take it easy. Think. Flirt. Joke.

 

And don't take excuses or crap from anyone.

 

Me? I'd move on and learn your lessons. You took too long to get with her and then got stood up because you acted desperate. Next time spend less than 30 minutes getting from meeting her to seeing her in person. If it takes longer than that, move on.

 

Less effort = more results.

[annie24]

wow - very thourough poco!!!!

 

I agree wholeheartedly. she sounds like a total flake. don't put up with crap and lame excuses.

[Dating Coach]

Right on Poco!

[heythere1234]

Hi nogame,

 

I may be reading your post wrong and if so please correct me. But from what you said, I think that you asked her for a date, called her the day before the scheduled date, but made no mention of the date, then stood her up the day of the date? If that is correct then I would not be surprised if she doesn't desire to set another date with you. Again correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I once agreed to see a Saturday movie with a guy, and he just ignored me completely all week like the plague, I had no idea whether he wanted a matinee, whether he was planning to take me to dinner or if I should eat something first. Then he just turned up on my door step on Saturday. By then I figured he no longer wanted to see me and I told him no.

[nogame]

:strolls casually up to the mic:

fists:

 

HELLO AGAIN EVERYONE.

 

Our story gets more interesting.....

 

We talk for 5 hours on the phone and both hardly get any sleep. I wake up, go to work, can't concentrate on work, so I call her on my lunch break and leave the dorkiest voice mail ever. I figure that voice mail will banish me into frienzone land forever, and curse myself for my stupidity.

 

When I get home, she calls me. I immediately ask her to hang out with me tonight. She agrees, I drive out to her house, she is absolutely gorgeous in person, we drink beers and listen to music, then we go out to dinner. Conversation is animated, intelligent, and comfortable.

 

After dinner we go back to her place, drink and talk more, hang out in her bedroom for a long time, sitting on her bed and playing with her cat, then we go out for a walk by the lake in the moonlight. I kiss her on the cheek several times, and get several kisses on the lips. Oh yeah, she also made me a mix CD, *and* she asked me to go on a road trip with her. I drive home, it's 2:30 in the morning, type this out, and now I'm going to sleep!

 

exits:

[keenan]

exits

 

applause....

[PocoDiablo]

Now go for a repeat of that but push it a lot further. I mean, you were sitting on her bed ... playing with her pus.., er, cat, and .... HELLO?

 

Congratulations.

 

Don't leave dorky vmails. "He, this is me, call me back." should suffice in all cases.

 

And now that you see her in person, avoid the 5 hour phone calls, and see her in person instead.

[Lansing]

wow.. what a twist to the story! haha... she made YOU a mix CD!! Interesting!

 

See.. that is the thing.. communication is important..... I am glad things worked out so far!

[annie24]

I'm still unimpressed by her.....

[Lansing]

I'm still unimpressed by her.....

 

 

I can see what you are saying Annie (i.e. like.. she should have left a message cancelling the other date in advance or e-mailed a cancellation well in advance).....

 

But, I think people do what they think they should do to make themselves look like they are "cool" and "collected" or not too interested,etc,etc.... people think that being aloof is more attractive....

[annie24]

arg. well lansing, you've read some of my previous rants. I'm pretty unimpressed by people acting aloof to look cool. Not what I'm looking for in a relationship.

 

well, I hope from now on, things go well with this girl!