Bound to try, but refusing to be a fool.

[venquessa1607306442]

I told myself long before my exe left me, that she was the one. I dont take that lightly. It took me 5 years with her before I "knew". When she left me, it very nearly killed me... it did kill some of me, most survived, only scarred for life.

 

From my other post you might know somethings that have been going on, but heres a recap. Was with her for 7 years and she dumped me out of the blue. She was ellusive and stuborn that it was over, even though I could see love for me and pain at losing me in her eyes. The words, "I dont think we weill ever get back together" ring in my mind.

 

After 2 years with me phoning her on occasion, still dedicated to waiting this out. Don't get me wrong, I've got on with my life. I had a long distance relationship GF for just over a year, flew 7 times to see her, and her 5 to see me. That wasn't working and so I ended it not that long ago.

 

During this time I had been in occasionaly contact with the exe, been out for drinks etc. etc. Still the flavour of the hour was "I dont think we will ever get back together."

 

I got messed up when she was at a party, it hit me really hard and I was a mess all over again the next week. I decided no contact.

 

2 months of no contact and exe phones me for a favour, then asks me out for a drink, then another, then I returned and asked her out. At one point she was saying that she was coming to realise what we had was special and that we may never find it again.

 

It got to the point where she was saying that we could try and take things slowly, spend time together, but... there might be a chance we could get back together, just as long as we take it slowly and not get freaked out.

 

We had dinner on Friday night. Dinner was fine, but she was constantly off into the loo on the phone. At the end of dinner she fixed her makeup and told me she had paper work to do at home for work (11pm on a friday night after a bottle of wine and a meal???).

 

However, the flavour had now returned to "I don't think we will ever get back together." Yet we were having a brilliant time, making each other smile and laugh. I could swear she still loves me very much, but is afriad of something. She even said, she should go off with random blokes for one nighters and just remain single. I told her I would leave it up to her, she can call me, I'll not call her, but....

 

She almost seemed to avert me from going to the pub after wards on my own to see if anyone I knew was there. When I got home I was convinced she had took me for a fool and she was actually off to the pub just didn't want me there. I tried phoning her once, no answer, I sent her a text and it took her ages to reply. (All signs she was in a noisy pub and couldn't hear the phone???) Or am paranoid.

 

I asked her yesterday and she said, she just thought it was a bad idea of me to go to the pub alone. But also said, "I thought you were going to leave it until I phoned you, was that not the plan?"

 

The problem is, I sent her an email on Friday night, at the end fo which I summed up by saying, "I bid you farewell until a time you can respect me and not take me for a fool."

 

I asked her is she had got it, but she said, no. She would read it that night and reply, (sunday night). I have had no reply.

 

The bottom line is, I will continue to try and win her back, losing one or two battles doesn't worry me, I've been through worse.

 

What I am concerned about is that I can only trust her when she is in favour of us. I know this girl well, obviously. Sometimes, like recently when she seemed interested, she seemed totally trustable. However when she turned again, she immediately seemed untrustable and like she would make a fool of me.

 

Am I just over thinking this? Is she likely to "use" me and treat me as a part-time B plan friend? Let me get close enough to trust her and then she turns cold on me again.

 

My friend told me to bail out and give up, if I can't trust her, or if she makes me paranoid she is treating me like a fool, then it's not going to work out at all. I'm not convinced, I think she is just confused, but the wind is turning in my favour, just got to get by the nasty gusts like Friday night.

[Bizw]

I'm going through a very similar situtiion and wonder many, many of the same things you do.

 

My ex left me after five years together. I've taken it extreamly hard, I feel like part of me is missing, I obsess about it all day. We've only been apart for a month so I havent waited anywhere near as long but I feel the toll already.

 

I no longer trust anything that she says, this in itself is very bad, causes alot of tension. She also takes me as a fool and acts if I don't know shes dating other guys. Lies to me often in general.

 

To sum up what I'm trying to say. From reading your post I feel very similar even though it hasnt been as long. If you have truly moved on and she doenst have a negative effect on you then I see no harm in staying in touch. In my case I have very strong feelings and feel that hoping to get her back is holding me back from healing. By holding on I experiance her dating other guys first hand, and everyother painful detail or her life.

 

If you can control your emotions by all means stay in touch. Why lose someone that you loved for so long. If it bothers you often, I would cut contact.

[Break up Veteran]

If you value your sanity, please for your own sake don't do it.

 

The flip flop action you describe in her is caused by your actions. Believe me. I thought the same as you: I'm getting closer, and each set back made me think oh it's only minor.

 

STOP. I hate to say it but you being there as a consistent refrence point for her saves her from having to make any real decisions. She is and will walk all over you. Yes she may be confused and wrestling with her consciousness. But I tell you now my friend YOU will come out battered and bruised with absolutely no victory.

 

I have been there and got the lousy t-shirt. I know it feels like the right thing to do, to stand by her no matter what. The trouble is the normal rules of relationships go out the window when you step into the darkside of 'the breakup'.

 

I'm not saying give up just don't be her rock. Make her work real hard if she wants you back.

 

Good luck

[Break up Veteran]

If you value your sanity, please for your own sake don't do it.

 

The flip flop action you describe in her is caused by your actions. Believe me. I thought the same as you: I'm getting closer, and each set back made me think oh it's only minor.

 

STOP. I hate to say it but you being there as a consistent refrence point for her saves her from having to make any real decisions. She is and will walk all over you. Yes she may be confused and wrestling with her consciousness. But I tell you now my friend YOU will come out battered and bruised with absolutely no victory.

 

I have been there and got the lousy t-shirt. I know it feels like the right thing to do, to stand by her no matter what. The trouble is the normal rules of relationships go out the window when you step into the darkside of 'the breakup'.

 

I'm not saying give up just don't be her rock. Make her work real hard if she wants you back.

 

Good luck

[Break up Veteran]

If you value your sanity, please for your own sake don't do it.

 

The flip flop action you describe in her is caused by your actions. Believe me. I thought the same as you: I'm getting closer, and each set back made me think oh it's only minor.

 

STOP. I hate to say it but you being there as a consistent refrence point for her saves her from having to make any real decisions. She is and will walk all over you. Yes she may be confused and wrestling with her consciousness. But I tell you now my friend YOU will come out battered and bruised with absolutely no victory.

 

I have been there and got the lousy t-shirt. I know it feels like the right thing to do, to stand by her no matter what. The trouble is the normal rules of relationships go out the window when you step into the darkside of 'the breakup'.

 

I'm not saying give up just don't be her rock. Make her work real hard if she wants you back.

 

Good luck

[venquessa1607306442]

Bizw:

 

I feel for you man, that sucks. I have more or less avoided any direct reference to her seeing or having other men. Yet.

 

Anyway...

 

My plan for now is to not phone her, not contact her again, until she contacts me. Then I will remain on guard. The instant she starts flip/floping I will leave, no matter if we are at dinner or in a movie. If she is interested in trying "us" again, then thats all very well and I'm in. If she is for messing me around then I'm out.

 

As to whether or not I can keep this promise to myself is another story.

 

In the meantime, the hunt is on for a new one. I may not find what I had with my exe with another, but I might still find happiness. Any UK females 24-32 around LOL (just kidding, it's not a dating forum I know)

 

I swear it was the non-contact and me getting on with life, that brought her back to me this time, and I'd nearly swear is was because I paid her so much attention and was so nice to her that she turned off as quickly again. No more.

 

All of nothing. End of story. I have to be strong, or she will mess me up, again and again, and again, and again.

 

Thanks guys/gals.

[atlas]

I know exactly how you feel. Your line about a part of you dying is exactly how I feel. I understand what people are saying, here, about trying to move on, really move on, but I also understand and, truly, feel that if you really know that she is the person you would commit your entire life to that one would not be able to give up so easily. Who knows. I have been told that divorce (and I would imagine relationships ending, life long) happens when both people fall out of love at the same time. People fall in and out of love with each other all the time. For me, it seems, that she has fallen out of love with me (she still loves me, as it seems "she" still loves you) and it is my charge to continue and put the effort in right now so that we equal out again. It may not work out in the long run for each of us in this position yet we know for a fact it won't if we don't try.

 

Good luck.

[venquessa1607306442]

"" but I also understand and, truly, feel that if you really know that she is the person you would commit your entire life to that one would not be able to give up so easily.""

 

Exactly, if you tell your soul, someone is the one and you can then easily walk away and "move on", you either lied to yourself of you have no commitment.

 

I don't need a piece of paper or a ring to say I am bound to her for life. I have my heart, mind and soul and they appear in agreement. It's not easy, hell it's hard, but... well, If I gave up on her so easily I would have questions to ask myself about belief and promises.

[Cecelius]

She's occasionally bored and so she calls you up. Where is the destiny in that?

 

Forget about her, be pals but frankly I wouldn't bother worrying or even thinking of getting back together with her. All the leverage is in her back pocket at this point.

[cassiana]

I think you got it exactly right when you said that whenever you had NC she came back and whenever you are nice to her she ran away. You need her to feel less secure about how you feel for her. You are her back up. She can drag you out rudely remain on the phone and go home knowing that you are hooked. The more you put up with, the more contempt she has. Do NC and the next time she contacts you be busy and aloof and if she asks about your romantic situation be coy. You may have had a great relationship with her but shes not the be all and end all. If she thinks that she can do better than you maybe you can do better than her

 

go neiri leat

[Wimpy]

I have to say I was interested to read this from some guys. I thought it was only women who felt like that when someone they loved dealt them a cruel blow.

 

I guess from a woman's perspective all I can say is that we are the world's worst at NOT being straight talkers. Say one thing, mean another. It normally infuriates people - especially guys.

 

At the end of the day you've got to do what's best for you and go with that. But if someone else was going through this what would you tell them?

 

I hope it all works out for you. I fully understand being 100% preoccupied with it. I'm currently going through a situation with the man I love and I go to bed thinking about it and wake up thinking about it and my job's going down the drain because I can't focus on anything else.

 

I wonder if love is really worth all the agony?

[venquessa1607306442]

I wonder if love is really worth all the agony?

 

I would not be in this position if I felt it was not. Would any of us?

[cassiana]

I agree. There;s lots of men i never looked back at but this guy i write about, hes worth it. If I got him back tomorrow i would forget all the pain it cost me. He was part of the happiest relationship of my life.

[shockeddismayed]

venquessa,

 

I have also had a nearly identical experience with an EXGF that I was with for 7 years. We'd already agreed to be married, had a house together, a car, etc, and were saving up for rings (I know, a little backwards, but she wanted to be practical and she was still in school). So then thing blow up.

 

My take on your situation is very much like Break Up Veteran's. I think he gave you excellent advice.

 

I don't think this girl is DELIBERATELY stringing you along, but unfortunately her feelings for you are:

a) too strong to give you up entirely (perhaps based on your history alone, perhaps more)

b) too confused at the moment to make any committment to her actions.

 

Ultimately, no matter whether her motives are genuine or not, she is not being fair to you.

 

Make her prove her love for you before you continue to be her doormat anymore. Up to this point, you have TOTALLY enabled her decision to NOT choose what she wants. You've made it that she doesn't have to. Furthermore, any direct pressure you put on now will just make her dig her heels in again.

 

You must leave this situation (silently) BEFORE you end up issuing an ultimatum and BEFORE she realizes how unfair she is being. If you deliver an ultimatum, she will resist out of her pride. If she realizes how unfair she is being, her guilt may ultimately prevent her from trying again, even if she re-discovers her legitimate love for you, simply because she'd inevitably still have *some* fear/doubts. In order to avoid hurting you again (and feeling guilty all over again), she'll wait for a moment that would realistically NEVER come (at least not to someone so easily confused as she was) --> a moment when she is absolutely sure, without havíng even seen you or tried dating again. You must avoid either of those things and just move on.

 

Some people (like your EX) allow themselves to stay in unhappiness, to and be ruled by their own confusion. Don't let her drag you down with her.... you are NOT confused.

 

Stand tall and accept nothing less than what you deserve. You are a kind, giving MAN. Let her prove that she is ready and worthy of you.

[rnorth]

You're in a spiral and this childhood pride will only make you descend further. Do you want it to work out? Well then learn to either trust the situation or not care. Refusing to be the fool shouldn't mean confronting her about every little thing it should mean that you should not make her the center of your universe.

 

She is testing you, IMO. You want to pass the test, you need to be kind of aloof and not let her get to you. get to a place where you don't care. And I might add that if she has concerns about you heading to the pub maybe its because there is a true reason to be concerned. You mentioned earlier in your email about getting messed up when meeting her at a party. Alcohol has a nice stimulating affect when you have a social buzz but its a depressive after the initial feeling. I would limit the alcohol intake. It sounds like that bugs her. But do it for yourself.

[Recovering_Lover]

All I want to say is this:

 

Read Break up Veteran's reply and try to understand what shocked&dismayed is telling you.

 

Everything you need to think and consider and make a decision along with your experiece is all there.

 

Make a wise decision. We can only give you our experiences and insights. You have to decide.

 

I know its very hard to make decision, when your emotions are making you do the opposite etc...but take a piece of paper and write down your thoughs and see if the logic gets you.

 

Take care

[venquessa1607306442]

Thank you to Break Up Vetren, Recovering_Lover, shocked&dismayed and all for your words of advice.

 

I fear the "BEFORE"s in shocked post might be too late. I haven't issued an ultimatum, I have however tried to phone her twice (no answer) and sent her a text saying I just called to see if she would answer, wanted to talk and clear a few things up before i leave her in peace.

 

That on top of my reaction to friday night could as you say, make her think twice about trying "us" again in the fear she will hurt me again, turn me into the desperate fool I am.

 

Thats the problem right there. Even with 2 months of work to get to the place you refer to as "where you dont care", it took 2 short afternoon meetings and one night in the local pub and I did care again, far too much, it showed straight through, I only stopped short of begging to be with her again, I afforded no respect and ... she walked all over me and turned away.

 

I need to recover the situation, I know, I know, anything I can do from here and now will probably be detremental to the situation, coming out of the frustration and self pitty of this week, still desperately melted in a big puddle in front of her.

 

Thing is, if she returns my text, although she hasn't for the last 2 hours (she could be at work). If she returns it, or calls, what do I do?

 

1. Dont answer. Don't reply.

2. Answer and say: "Oh, it's okay, doesn't matter now, I've got to go get ready to go out/work/airport/sea/outer-mongolia..., can't talk. By.. ... Oh, no where special, gotta run."

Reply to a text with: "Nevermind, .give me a ring sometime if you fancy a chat."

 

I like 2. But. It would need to be a well put brush off. Could it counter my earlier mistake of sending the text, if I disregard it and be postitive about going somewhere in my own life. Not a question, just a ponder.

 

Anyway, Im off to bed. All this has had me stuck back in the history dungeon, pulling out all the old ghosts and skeletons, regrets and fears, just so I can rub a bit of salt into my own wounds and remind myself Im an sometimes.

 

My plan of action is to find a distraction that will improve me as the person I want to be and somehow regenerate a social life. Haven't found either yet though. It's a no lose campaign, but not an easy one, finding something to fill my brain and preferable heart with interest long enough to break away from the tow-of-the-past will be difficult..

[shockeddismayed]

Venquessa,

 

It's never too late. You haven't left things in a terrible place.... she did.

 

She is very likely going to say " oh crap, I told him I don't want him anymore, but truthfully I'm confused ". After she gets to that point (it may take a few weeks) she will more than likely call you back up.

 

Now based mostly on my own experience, my thoughts are:

1) If she doesn't call, it is because she either never loved you truly, or because she loves you enough to realize she shouldn't call until she is less confused. In either case, be thankful she doesn't call.

2) If she calls, she is MOST LIKELY still in "selfish, confused mode", and is just calling to minimize the damage she's done, and hope to keep you interested enough to stick around while she is confused. DON'T FALL FOR THIS ANYMORE!!!!!

 

There is a slim possibility that she will call when she is no longer confused and knows what she wants, but if and when that becomes the case, she WILL call again if you don't answer back... or if you delay your answer.

 

Long and short of it... dodge the next call and just see what happens. I think you know in your heart that she is still confused.... there is NOTHING you can do that will be helpful to your relationship while she is in this state.

 

I'd advise against ANY contact right now... but if you really feel you must, then answer the call this once, be aloof, and just say "gotta run, maybe we can chat later" (as you suggested) and then just leave it at that for a few weeks at least.

 

My personal take is that you DON'T need to mend anything right now, but if you feel better, indulge yourself JUST THIS ONCE. After that, go on nearly STRICT NC. Which to me means that you only respond to her calls infrequently, and NEVER right away, until she says something of REAL meaning. ie "I miss you and feel I've made a mistake" or "I'd like to try again".

 

Good luck... above all, don't allow yourself to get roped into her confusion. Stay on the outside of the ring while she beats herself up about this.

[venquessa1607306442]

Thanks shocked&dismayed

 

She replied to the text late last night, said she was sorry for not being intouch or answering but she is working so much (she has a new/better job as of last week), she said she wont be free till Sunday and that we will talk soon.

 

I haven't replied and I don't think I will. If she doesn't phone me on sunday, I will try very hard not to phone her. That will leave her thinking, "But he wanted to talk and now he doesn't phone", she might then wonder why, which might then eat into her resolve. If she wants to talk, she will phone, wont she?

 

The other thought, was to insist that we talk, really talk for as long as it takes. However, I think you are correct that she is confused and a talk like that would possibly make her feel freaked out, under pressure and make her turn away and run further again. It seems that when we get closer she worries and feels pressured, so she puts the wall back up and runs away. "I dont think we can ever be together again."

 

My other worry is that she does want to be together, but something (possibly the same thing she dumped me for, that I never found out), is still there and even if she got back with me, in her eyes it wouldn't work, due to this thing. It could be a friend has taken a stand to say, "Dont you go back with him or I'll never speak to you again." If it's a good friend then she will be caught in a hard place, between me and them. It could be something completely different, but I suspect its something I just dont know about. I've always had that suspision. She wont tell me what it is, maybe in fear I could squash is in an instant with proof it's not true, and that would mean she had made a mamouth mistake.

 

Thanks again.

[venquessa1607306442]

I just read another thread here about getting back together and the learning to trust and it occurred to me that the reason my exe has never told me the reason she broke it off is that she doesn't want me to know, not because it was something I did that made us break up, but, something she did. If I knew that and what it was, should she ever feel like she had made a mistake, I might not trust her again, or I might constantly throw it in her face.

 

When I first came in here and told my breakup story, several people said, "Mate, she has found someone else.", "She's left you for someone else.", "Nobody leaves a good relationship, even a difficult one, without somewhere to go."

 

About 6 months after the break up, I lost a good friend of 10 years, because he told me that he had been out for a drink with my exe and that she told him she had left me for someone else. The reason I lost the friend was because he asked that it remain between me and him. Of course I confornted the X who denied it. My friend hasn't spoken with me much since. I tried to explain that regardless of how he felt, that it should remain between me and him, that once he told me it was "my" business to deal with how I pleased, he should either of stay well out of it, or expected I would use it the way I felt right. We still don't speak.

 

At the start of the recent run of her being open and nice I asked her, "So did you leave me for someone else?" and she said, "No. Well.. there was someone I was interested in." I didn't ask any further, because, well, I don't want to know. It might tear me up inside.

 

Maybe she feels that if she could have left me for someone else, even though our relationship was going through a downturn, that we can't be the ones for each other. I personally think that she might have found the strength in the possibility that this other person could bring her happiness on the short term, to leave our not-having-the-best-of-its-days relationship.

 

Once she had made that desicion, she had to stick to it.

 

She also thinks that she is not the women of my dreams, and that I was just with her because I was with her and that she wants the man she is with to want her for what she is and for her to be the women of his dreams. I have tried to tell her she is the women of my dreams, I have told her that I still dream of her, still talk to her everyday, even though she is not here and that even after all that has happened, all the pain I have went through, that I would go through it all again for her, without question of doubt.

 

Only, I made a mistake in saying, "I feel that if I met the women of my dreams tomorrow, I would sitll only love you.", she jumped on it. "Thats the point, im supposed to be the women of your dreams.", I tried to explain it was just a figure of speech, but the damage was done, yet again I had said something I didn't mean to be interrupted as she interrupted it.

 

Oh well,I'll stop rambling now.

[Cecelius]

Womanese translation? "My ego requires that I know that you would be lost, destroyed, damaged without me -- that I am absolutely critical to your breathing ability."

 

Why would you listen to this nonsense? She doesn't want you, fine. Tell her to leave you alone.

[cassiana]

That woman of your dreams stuff is her fighting you with semantics. It as you say a figure of speech. Shes only looking for something in what you say to blame you for all this. Did she not catch the first half of that sentence. One great thing about NC is that they can't twist your words.

[shockeddismayed]

venquessa,

 

I wise man told me this (and I am sure it could be reversed for the other sex):

 

"Every great man has to learn to deal with a crazy woman once.... Only once."

 

Right now she is laying traps for you left, right and centre. They are borne out of her own insecurity and immaturity.

 

If she loves you, she will make OVERT efforts to win you back. Period. Stop imagining excuses for her.

 

If she cannot overcome her own insecurities and fears, then she isn't ready to love. And she will never truly be happy. Do not allow yourself to make excuses for her and be her crutch.

 

Let her prove that she is not crazy. If she can't, you are better off with someone who knows what they want.

 

Life is NOT this complicated.

 

Stand tall, and proud (but not foolish pride). Continue to move on. If she chases you down, give her the time of day and nothing else until she PROVES that she is ready to give you the level of love and committment you were ready to give to her.

 

But whatever you do, keep walking. She either meets your pace, or she doesn't.