Can he be this dense?

[cassiana]

As i have written before my ex dumped early last april. He sent me a few joke emails and a birthday card but I had immediately begun no contact ( i even walked out when he dumped me and never begged or pleaded). After four months I sent him a joke email. This has been going on since august. At the start I wasn't sure if he wasn't just responding politely. He sent me a few letters that outlined his plans in a polite was but clearly didn't include me. He mentioned travel. I gave a breezy reply where I said it was a good idea. Anyway after a second warmer reply for him there was silence. Ezch time the contact would die until I reignited it then die out again. It was always joke emails that he forwarded. Anyway I decided about three weeks ago that I wasn't going to start up this limited contact with him again. Then about a week ago he started sending joke emails and even though I didn't respond he sent more. Another thing is that the last few haven't been jokes. They have been soppy forwards about love and friendship and that kind of garbage thaT YOU have to send back to the person that sent it to you within the hour.

Its just that I cannot believe that he could be so dense as to send this to an ex he dumped. I could so easily read into it and think that he was sending me a message. If I believed it he would be really leading me on and I could get hurt. I thought he was a fairly intelligent and sensitive chap, I just cannot believe he is so dense even though my gut tells me that he is. What do you guys think.

[idontgetit]

apart from some of the guys on this forum, yes, i'm afraid he probably is pretty dense... have you seen the joke going around recently about a female cell that's gotten stuck in the male brain? she wanders around and then there's all this space, and she keeps looking for other brain cells but there aren't any? finally, she starts calling..

 

hellllo?? heeelllllllo? is there anyone here?

 

a few seconds pass, and very faintly she hears....swim south, we're all down here!!

 

 

 

teeheee...sorry, that one really brightened my morning.

[cassiana]

Yeah I agree with you. Its amazing though isn't it? A few years ago I would have not believed that a man could send stuff this provacative without intending it but now I do believe they can be this dense despite all the self-help books his read and counsellors he has been to. He is 33yrs old, a lawyer and still totally dense.

[Scout]

You know what...email the guy and ask him if you're supposed to be reading something into this, because you find them odd coming from an ex.

 

Just say exactly that.

[highlighter]

i have a similar situation. my ex who dumped me back in august, either completely ignores me for 3 days and then all of a sudden is all over me, this pattern has been going on for 5 weeks...i would always just go with the flow, when he ignored me i wouldn't attempt to make conversation with him and when he flirted with me i flirted back..but recently i decided i had enough because it just made me feel worse, so i've been giving him the cold shoulder,

 

don't let him do that to you, don't send back the sappy emails to him because then he'll eventually stop emailing you for a while and then the pattern will start again

 

[reborn]

I was in a similar situation once and it would make me REALLY upset when I would get those sappy forwards from my ex. I would be doing fine, be getting set to start my day at the office or just be getting ready to go to lunch and feeling good and sassy until I would open up my email and see one of this silly things from my stupid ex. It was really hard for me too. I couldn't understand WHY he would be sending me only forwards if he didn't want to contact me at all. I thought they were like the lowest end of the communication chain, sort of like when you start out with bacteria and at the other end of the chain there is a full blown human being (pardon me for my weird analogies, but I hope it is understandable). I will just ruin my day I had forgotten he existed, then out of the blue would come the sappy email and it will get me thinking if it actually meant something, if he dared not tell me in my face. Sometimes I just felt like I was above this type of impersonal and subhuman communication and found it really fresh of him that he felt he had the liberty of being so casual and funny with me. It bugged me a lot.

 

As it turned out, he just had me in his little name list. It was quite automatic. It is not like he would purposely add me in so that I would get that specific email. He had a ready set list and I just happened to be there. He added me with the rest of his friends and acquantances.

 

It may be the case that your ex means something by it, who knows. I know it is really annoying to be getting those emails cause they start you thinking about your ex and considering things that you were not thinking about before. But if you were the one to always start communication with him and he would stop eventually and things didn't get picked up until you would contact him again; and all you are getting is sappy friendship and love forwarded messages that are still generic and you may not be the only recipient of (even if only your emails appears on the recipient, it could be a hidden list of a bunch of addresses); there may not be that much behind the emails. I know it is hard not to think too much into it, but I think it does you no good to give it too many thoughts in your head. However, Im not in the head of this guy so I don't know for sure. Its just what it seems to me.

 

I know you must still care about the guy. That you feel outraged at his dense mind and stuff but most likely he is not thinking in the same terms you are. Guys tend not too look so much into things as we women do. Also I think that if he meant something by those emails he might also send you some other types of emails once in a while. I think it does show however that he may want you to still keep in him mind somehow and that he doesn't want to cut off contact all together, however painful as it is it that it in self may not necessarily be an indication that we wants to get back or something.

 

If you want to tell him that this aggrevates you and you find it annoying or disrespectful or disconsiderate or whatever, go ahead and do it. If you want to ask him if you are supposed to look something into it go ahead and do it. I really hope that if you decide to do that you get an amazing answer that will make you happy and surprise you, however be ready that it may be that he may be the one to be surprised at how much you looked into things. Another option is just to write him normal emails once in a while. I personally get very annoyed at this very impersonal forwards, but maybe go into it just expecting friendship to be safe, if you think you can handle it. However, I seems to me you are not over this guy completely if you are looking so much into this and harvoring hope. I hope it all works out for you and that you gain the wisdom to do what is right for you and what ultimately will make YOU happy cause you deserve to be happy and be left in peace by this person to let you move on and have a fabulous new life without him in the picture, if he decided to move on himself

 

Hope this wasn't too long.

[cassiana]

Thanks for the great advice everybody. No i'm not over him, I absolutely thought he was the one and I never think that way. There was a click there that i never had before. If you are familiar with my previous whines you will know that he has chronic fatigue syndrome which I attribute as the cause of a relationship that though short (3 months) was great with never a cross word or inconsiderate gesture between us.

This illness has complicated my reaction to his situation. When he originally got sick Cfids was a misunderstood illness and alot of people just thought he was lazy. He lost alot of friend and was at home for 2 yrs. I know from a mutual friend that he is barely hanging on at the moment. He goes to work in his office but stays in every weekend and doesn't even go for lunch. This is why I have cut him more slack than normal. i'm torn between treating him like an ex and worrying that as he is ill I shouldn't just abandon him like his friends did before. I have asked advice on cfids dedicated sites but I have had no response so far.

Because of his illness I suspect I was his first proper girlfriend and the first woman who didn't dump him after a week even though he is 33. I also suspect that it may have been his first sexual experience. I can't be totally sure.

But i have to think of myself so I have been dating other guys since. However I got sick of starting these little communications and then it dying out. This time after I had given up, he started the communication. Again cfids complicates everything. I know how draining it can be so maybe these forwards are his way of keeping in touch without the struggle to write. When a Cfids sufferer is feeling really bad they cannot even concentrate on television programmes.

He is a man and has his pride. He was honest about his illness but also didn't like to appear weak in front of me. if i confront him now and he does have interest he is too ill to act on it and too proud to admit it. Just like he never gave me a good reason for breaking up with me but I know his relapse started then.

I'm sorry for rambling on i'm just really cut up by this.

My plan is to assume its allover, read nothing into this persue my new relationship (date #2 today), keep sending him emails ( i agree with reborn these forwards are the bottom of the communication chain) and see what happens. Interestingly Reborn the last email I sent him was a little funny essay about how I lost my father during a rainstorm, I sent it to him and a good male friend of mine.

None of us can know whats in the mind of anyone. God I miss him though. Thanks again for your advice.

[reborn]

Hi Cassiana,

Sorry to hear about your ex.s condition. It seems like an illness that can really alter a person's way of relating to others. To a normal guy with a busy life and normal energy levels, a forwarded email may be different than to someone with the fatigue sindrome your ex has.

I don't know what to tell you, other that if you really love this person and care for him let him know, or think about doing it. It has been my personal experience and perhaps the experience of others that through email sometimes things get misinterpreted, or that we cannot truly grasp the real intention and emotion that someone intends as what we get is just words in a computer screen, no gestures, no looking into someones eyes to see what they are feeling, no tone of the voice.

It seems like you are torn between love and guilt. I do not know by your post if you love this guy a lot and think he is the one and still have hope cause you love him, or if you are afraid that you were so very special to him and now you are turning your back on him like all others. Maybe you are in love with him, but the possibility of living with someone with that desease really scares you. No matter what it seems as if you are very concerned for him as you have been educating your self about his desease, etc.

Why don't you consider being his friend. Why don't you call him instead of emailing him and ask him how he is or call him to see if you can go visit him and bring over some coffee and just talk to him as a friend. I think this would be a way to be there for him, not to turn your back on him as the others did and still not be involved in a relationship. This doesn't imply rejection on either side. It is just being friends, showing that you care for a person, telling them that even if you are no longer bf and gf you deeply care about them and what happens to them. It doesn't have to be all sappy but casual. And instead of asking him if you are supposed to look something into his emails, you can send him one that says you like them and think they are sweet or whatever.

I don't know if what Im saying makes any sense. I just think it is sad to completely break apart from someone you really care that maybe you feel in your heart may need you. Look inside of you and see what you really feel. It seems like you are a very nice, sweet, caring and considerate person. See if you can find a way to let that shine on him without compromising your heart, if you don't want to, and not giving him hope, if you don't want to.

Sometimes things are very simple and we just complicate them beyond believe by looking too much into them. Pick up the phone one day and call him as a friend. See how he is, ask him what he thought of your email story and if you feel comfy and think it is ok for your relationship ask him how he is doing. Or just tell him about you guys having a coffee sometimes. Just because people were once lovers doesn't mean they have to be enemies. I think it most important for you to really look inside your self, to be very honest with you as to how you feel about this guy, love, guilt, responsability, whatever. And if you really want to go back with him, don't put so many mind obstacles on your path, don't think so much remember things are simpler. You don't have to be all agresive or blunt oranything, but with someone with his condition you may need to be the initiator. Youy can do that in a subtle way. I wish you the best of luck girl.

[evy38]

Joke emails are easy for men to send, it tells you nothing of their feelings, but accomplishes their ends, which is to keep them on your mind.

Sappy emails go even further because they imply emotional connection without the man having to take credit for that connection. They have your feelings without taking responsibility for wanting them. It has always been implied that women are the game players, but I believe men can play with the best of them sometimes. You say to him, well you must care, you email all the time, and his response? I never promised you anything.

I guess I feel that if a man wants my feelings then he needs to be willing to share his own. He also needs to be able to take responsibility for wanting my feelings.

Men who send these types of emails are either terminally afraid of their feelings or they are players and they have a list of address in their book and guess what ladies? We're all getting the same emails.

[cassiana]

Well I know hes not a player. If hasn't got the energy to go out for lunch hes hardly chasing the babes. Besides my sources concur. I'm the last woman he dated and the most significant relationship he had. He sent me another forward today. This time it included the sentiment that it takes years to meet the right person, a minute to realise it and years to forget it. Heady stuff indeed and very significant except that his sister sent him it an hour before he forwarded it on to me and a male friend of his. The guy of course could be a buffer and i am first on a very small list. He can't maintain alot of friends because of his health. However the emails are becoming more frequent. I have been replying with a couple of newsy emails of my own which I send to a few people but are actually designed to target him. Like yesterday I emailed a jokey poem I wrote about going to a spa for the weekend (a spa where we once meesed around in in the car one night but never went in) for my first ever massage (he gets one weekly for his illness and was always recommending I do it) I mentioned how I would get my body covered in mud and would be even more gorgeous than ever next week (which he won't see but I wanted him to imagine) and that my trip to see Bridget Jones would have to wait (we used to go to the movies alot and I wanted to show we still do). I didn't teel him I was going with a group of girls though. If hes trying to keep himself in my head then two can play at that game.

I'm still going on dates too.

[evy38]

I think he still fits into my theory though. He wants to communicate with you, but he's afraid to say what he really feels, so he sends you someone elses thoughts that happen to mirror his own. In the end he can say what he wants without taking responsibility for the words. I don't mean to give you hope or crush your hopes. I just think that is why men send these kinds of emails.

[cassiana]

Funnily what you say is more hopeful than what I was thinking. I was thinking he was just sending on stuff to me unthinkingly and that hes too sick at the moment to write proper emails or deal with me anyway.

The idea that he might actually have feelings for me scares me in case it isn't so.

If he has feelings then its something I can work on. I can keep things ticking until his health improves and then finesse a situation where he can manouvre without embarrassment. Meanwhile i'll keep my options open by dating away as I am now.

[evy38]

Funnily what you say is more hopeful than what I was thinking. I was thinking he was just sending on stuff to me unthinkingly and that hes too sick at the moment to write proper emails or deal with me anyway.

The idea that he might actually have feelings for me scares me in case it isn't so.

If he has feelings then its something I can work on. I can keep things ticking until his health improves and then finesse a situation where he can manouvre without embarrassment. Meanwhile i'll keep my options open by dating away as I am now.

 

Maybe, but sometimes we make a decision not to pursue someone. We don't want to loose touch, but we don't intend to committ either, so we enter the chain mail neather world. If that is the case, he will eventually get tired of it or there will be a misunderstanding and it will end. This response is very hard on you, you know. Every new email gives you new hope, you overthink everything about them. Today he sent me more, so he must really care, today he sent less, so he must be getting over me. Don't go there babe. Too hard on you.

[cassiana]

I made up my mind again not to contact him if he didn't contact me. I would never waver from this as I'm very very stubborn and have done similar things in the past to men who have been hard on me but here I'm not so sure if its the right thing. I can't judge because I don't fully understaND HIS ILLNESS. Anyway almost a week goes by and then yet another forwarded email. It was a joke about the perfect couple in a car who pick up santa and crash in the snow and only one survives. You have to guess who. The joke is the woman because theres no such thing as santa or the perfect man. Anywway I reponded with a one line email. Dear ???? how did you know that I was in a car accident?

This elicited within ten minutes the first personal email since september. He replied like quasie modo I had a hunch. Then he thanked me for my emails and said what I wrote should be published. He asked after me and it was a warm and pleasant reply. I felt dissatisfied after it. I really don't know. I didn't reply yet. I will send him stuff for the next four weeks. Then he will be finished his job and will be offline. He cannot contact me by email anymore. So he will either have to go one step up the foodchain to texts and phonecalls or leave me behind forever. What do you think he will do?

As it happens I do write extremely funny letters and emails and am very witty in person. However I don't think men find that attractiver. I don't know. I made him laugh alot. He used to say that it was good to laugh.

 

I know its not much of an update but I just wanted to tell someone. I find all this a bit humiliating and frustrating and pointless.

[evy38]

I find all this a bit humiliating and frustrating and pointless.

 

That is exactly why I stopped my "game" with a man. It's the best reason to stop. Also, I think you are feeling some guilt about his illness. This is not unusual. Well people often feel guilt in their associations will ill people or people they believe to be ill. It will color your judgement. Don't let it.

[cassiana]

After another week of emailing jokes and notes back and forth I have decided to do about 11 days of NC. After that I will email him again but it will only be for about two weeks before he is finished his job. Then all contact will cease. It will be up to him. Meanwhile I'm a month and a hlaf with a new guy who i'm just starting to warm a little to. That's usually when they dump me. You reallly have to keep it cold or they lose interest. I must master that before its too late.