Ex-boyfriend, with whom I've maintained friendship, coming out - some challenges

[moving]

Hi all --

 

I have a slightly unusual twist on the issue of communication/friendship with my ex-boyfriend. (I'm a woman in my 20s.) I'd like any thoughts on whether it's a good thing for me to maintain the friendship at this point, a year after our breakup. He and I were together for one year. Our relationship grew out of our excitement at our many shared interests, our feeling that we "got" each other at a level that few of our friends did, and our ability to talk about anything forever. We quickly became best friends. There were only two problems in paradise.

 

The first was the disparity in our feelings and wants. I ended up feeling more for him, and wanting more from him, than the converse. Standing alone, this would have been enough to end the relationship, and was the chief reason he cited when he broke up with me last year. After two months of no-contact, we reconnected and agreed to remain friends, chiefly because there was no toxicity in our breakup and there remained a lot of affection on both sides. Our friendship was still initially distant and strained, but quickly regained the comfortable, high-spirited dynamic of the relationship. There was never any confusion about the fact that our relationship was over - no physical contact, no flirting, and a significant drop in how often we saw each other. (As boyfriend and girlfriend, we'd seen each other every weekend, but as friends, I estimate that we've seen each other every 4-6 weeks and talked on the phone every 4-10 days.) Although I continued to have feelings for him, I felt that they were increasingly fading over time, and that I'd accepted the "new normal" of a friendship rather than a relationship.

 

The second reason that we broke up has now come into play, in a way that may affect how and whether our friendship continues. While we dated, we both identified as bisexuals (each seeking a monogamous relationship). I had been with both men and women before, and was fairly secure in this aspect of my identity. In contrast, the issue of his sexuality had swirled around our relationship in a number of ways. First, to my knowledge, I am the only woman he has dated (and certainly the only he has dated seriously, or more than very briefly) since turning 18. He has dated several guys (at least three that I know of) in the same period of time. Second, he rarely if ever expressed any physical interest in women - didn't refer to them (or me) as cute or attractive, look at them/us physically, etc. Third and most importantly, our relationship was not very physically intimate, due to his reticence rather than mine. He stated that he was not comfortable with any intimacy involving climax unless he was in love, and he wasn't even sure whether he was looking for that level of emotional intimacy with anyone, let alone me specifically. He stated, with some discomfort, that the most he would be comfortable with was "touching". So our physical relationship was limited to hugging, kissing, hand-holding, cuddling/spooning, and occasional hesitant touching (hesitant on my end because I didn't want to inadvertently cross any of his boundaries, and on his end because honestly, I don't think he was very into it.) It was a head-trip - very painful for me to be in love with my boyfriend and yet not be able to share very much with him physically - to feel that I had to suppress my own sexuality around him rather than to make him uncomfortable. By the time our relationship ended, I'd concluded that his sexuality certainly did not include me, and perhaps did not include women more generally. Fourth, eight months into our relationship, I (completely accidentally) discovered that he had maintained a profile on a gay personals site to which he was still signing in - I asked him about it, and he claimed it was an old profile where he only signed in when he received an alert that someone had messaged him; he deleted the profile as soon as I asked him about it.

 

Recently, my ex came to me with two pieces of news. First, he is dating again - specifically, he had been seeing another guy, who recently called things off, much to my ex's disappointment. Second, he has just come out to his parents, and (putting things together from what he's shared) appears to have told them that he is gay rather than bisexual - though he told me that he did this because they would struggle to understand bisexuality and (particularly from their religious standpoint) would insist that if he is bisexual, he should just marry a woman and have kids anyway.

 

Although I'm ashamed this happened a year after our breakup, I had a strong, negative emotional reaction to hearing about my ex dating someone new and being really excited about that person. It stirred up a lot of feelings that I thought had faded, and hearing his excitement for someone new left me feeling very inadequate. At a time when these feelings were particularly intense, I ended up sharing with him what was going on with me, which may ultimately lead to some probably-healthy new distance and boundaries in our friendship. His news made for a chaotic week last week for me, as I freaked out emotionally. But I think I'm over the worst of it, and I know that because I shared what I did with him, I won't have to encounter the things that are most painful (i.e., he understands that he shouldn't talk about dating with me, and if there turns out to be "someone new", I probably wouldn't meet that person for a good long while - we will just continue to share the things that we've always shared with each other, talking about our common interests and updating each other on other aspects of our lives.)

 

Here is my question. I know that everyone has to deal with exes moving on to new relationships, and this certainly isn't the first time I've dealt with the issue, either. But this is the first time I've tried to maintain a friendship (against conventional wisdom, I realize), and this is the first time I've been the one who was more emotionally involved in our former relationship. I think it would be much easier for me to continue with this friendship if I could safely conclude that my ex is a gay man in the process of coming out as such, and choose to view that as the overriding reason that things didn't work out between us. That would help me to view him as having always been completely romantically/sexually unavailable/inaccessible to me; it would really help to eliminate the feeling of inadequacy at the thought of his being excited about a new guy. Do you guys think that I am justified in viewing my ex as gay, despite his not having explicitly told me that that's what he considers himself? (Keep in mind that I myself am a product of the LGBT world, which really emphasizes respecting everyone's self-identification above all, so it's difficult for me to say that he "must" be gay due to the "evidence" above unless he himself says it. But it would help me to conclude that he is gay.) Has anyone else dealt with the issue of an ex coming out as gay or lesbian, and found that fact helpful in remaining friends?

 

To me, the danger in doing this is that he hasn't identified himself as gay *to me*. When we dated, he insisted that he was bisexual and could be with a man or a woman -- just that sex wasn't really important to him regardless of the gender of his partner. He does now seem to be focused on dating guys, seems to have come out to his parents as gay, and has obliquely implied that there may have been "a shift strongly in one direction" in his sexuality. However, if I was to feel better about the situation by convincing myself that he is in fact gay, and then he next announces that he's dating a woman, then that could throw me again, and I don't want to deal with that.

 

As I said, I know it defies conventional wisdom to try to retain a friendship with an ex, particularly when there are still feelings on one side. I have considered leaving this friendship behind for that reason, after the flareup in my feelings this past week, and am still open to doing so. At the same time, though, I feel as though we're "most of the way" towards making this friendship work - we really had adjusted to a "new normal", he's dating again, and just before this all happened, I met someone new and promising myself, so I'm thinking about someone new, too, for the first time in a year. Plus, I am about to move internationally for professional reasons for a year, and I think that by the time I come back, my feelings for him will likely have subsided. While I'm overseas, I think our contact (if we choose to continue it) will consist of no more than occasional Skype calls and IM sessions.

 

Given this rather unusual set of facts, I'm just hoping for some thoughts. If you were in a similar situation, would you try to continue the friendship at this point? Or would you let it go?

[Paulhasitall]

Friend 1st then become lovers. Friend make the best lover the saying goes. However only you can decide this and what is best for you.

[brazilgirl21]

Your ex is obviously gay. Sorry. It just seems like he's pretty certain of his sexual orientation.

 

Do you really want to pine over something that could never give you what you want?

 

Dating a bisexual would be a complete turnoff for me because even though I believe some woman can be a little more "flexibel", man who like other man are gay, IMO.

[moving]

Your ex is obviously gay. Sorry. It just seems like he's pretty certain of his sexual orientation.

 

--> No need to apologize! This is actually exactly what I want to hear, if that's people's reaction. As for his being "pretty certain" about his sexual orientation - lucky for him if he is now. He certainly wasn't when he dragged me through a rather painful, yearlong relationship while insisting that he was bisexual and would eventually be ready for sex with a woman. In retrospect, I should have known better and left earlier, when a friendship would have been much easier. We were/are both pretty young (mid-20s) and inexperienced (both got started on dating pretty late due to being academic nerds focused on school/career). So we just didn't deal with ending the relationship as quickly as we probably should have. And since I fell for him as things went along, I'm the one who got hurt this time. Live and learn.

 

Do you really want to pine over something that could never give you what you want?

 

--> No. I feel like I've wasted enough pining over this, and I'm posting here in the hopes of wrapping up my thoughts and moving on. Moving on for me being both literal and figurative - I'm moving 5,000 miles away from this situation soon, and I also want to be mentally over it yesterday, if you will. I've done my share of pining, angsting, insisting that these were feelings that I could never get over. Enough already.

 

Dating a bisexual would be a complete turnoff for me because even though I believe some woman can be a little more "flexibel", man who like other man are gay, IMO.

 

--> Ah. You're definitely entitled to your views, not to mention to date whomever you want. As I mentioned, I'm a bisexual woman myself, and several of my female friends are also bi - some in same-sex LTRs, some in opposite-sex ones. So I "get" bisexuality, and I am comfortable that it's a possibility for some women.

 

However, my ex is the only guy I've ever known who identifies as bisexual. This experience hasn't necessarily convinced me that male bisexuality exists, but it's something that I don't plan to worry about until/unless I meet other people I identify that way. For now, I'll certainly agree with you that all of the men I've ever met, including him, who like other men - seem to like ONLY men.

[Sunny1607307996]

Well, based on what you've said about the sexual part of your relationship I would conclude that he is gay. In my experience, unless he is extremely religious, he would want to go further with his partner (male or female) and would be comfortable doing so. We are sexual creatures at heart, and I would have a hard time believing that a male who is attracted to both sexes would hold himself back that much in the bedroom, without good reason to. And even if he was extremely religious and holding back for that reason....he would still WANT to go further sexually. That leads me to believe that what was holding him back was the fact that he wasn't attracted to you because of your gender. And if you know if he's doing sexual things with this new guy...well, there's your answer.

 

Now, would it be ok for you to ask him if he's gay? I'm not sure of the level of friendship and if that would be "ok" or not, but if you are close, why don't you just ask him? Tell him that it seems that his gender preference has changed considerably and ask him if he still retains his identity as bisexual? I would phrase it as "if you ever need to talk" rather than "because I need to know".

 

And for your own well-being...I think that it's fine to label him as "gay" in your mind if that will help you get over him. It's not like you're going to treat him any differently, it'll just help you see the relationship for what it really was and allow you to gain some closure. But the problem with this mentality is that if he's NOT gay, or still undecided, or whatever, and he starts to date a woman again...well, that would be devastating to you.

 

If you are going to continue this friendship, then you're going to need to set clear boundaries of what he can talk to you about via his relationships.

 

But if you are still in love with him and you were still holding out for him to go back the healthiest thing may be to let this friendship go.

[moving]

Well, based on what you've said about the sexual part of your relationship I would conclude that he is gay. In my experience, unless he is extremely religious, he would want to go further with his partner (male or female) and would be comfortable doing so. We are sexual creatures at heart, and I would have a hard time believing that a male who is attracted to both sexes would hold himself back that much in the bedroom, without good reason to. And even if he was extremely religious and holding back for that reason....he would still WANT to go further sexually. That leads me to believe that what was holding him back was the fact that he wasn't attracted to you because of your gender. And if you know if he's doing sexual things with this new guy...well, there's your answer.

 

He definitely wasn't attracted to me (though he once insisted that he was - "Of course I'm attracted to you! Why would I date someone that I wasn't attracted to?") But there just wasn't any desire there. The one thing that makes me think that he may be asexual rather than gay is that he held back with his male exes as well, to the point where one asked my ex if he was sure he wasn't *straight*. Or, he may just be sexually inhibited in general and not really comfortable doing anything with anyone. Whatever the case may be, he's probably gay and/or otherwise not interested in women, and he certainly isn't interested in me. Since I don't want to be in an asexual relationship (and already suffered through one for a year, thanks to him), I just hope that any future love interest of his is on the same page as he is from the get-go. It's a very painful thing to figure out over time, especially once you're emotionally invested.

 

Now, would it be ok for you to ask him if he's gay? I'm not sure of the level of friendship and if that would be "ok" or not, but if you are close, why don't you just ask him? Tell him that it seems that his gender preference has changed considerably and ask him if he still retains his identity as bisexual? I would phrase it as "if you ever need to talk" rather than "because I need to know".

 

It may have been possible before our recent conversation, in which we agreed there needed to be boundaries on our friendship following my rather emotional reaction to his talking about his interest in someone new. At this point, I think the question would cross a personal line/feel too intrusive to him. The level of friendship is strange. I've spent more time with him one-on-one than anyone else in my adult life. The same, or close, is probably true for him. We can talk forever - but nonetheless, he isn't really emotionally "available" (even as a friend), and personal topics are difficult for him to discuss, whether with me or anyone else. He's shared that his other exes have complained about this too - that they found him impossible to "get close to" emotionally (or physically, for that matter).

 

And for your own well-being...I think that it's fine to label him as "gay" in your mind if that will help you get over him. It's not like you're going to treat him any differently, it'll just help you see the relationship for what it really was and allow you to gain some closure. But the problem with this mentality is that if he's NOT gay, or still undecided, or whatever, and he starts to date a woman again...well, that would be devastating to you.

 

True. As I said, my hope is to "wrap things up" mentally, so that whomever he dates in the future is not of concern to me. Since he's agreed not to share details with me, I wouldn't have to know for a good long while, even if he WAS dating another woman. And of course, his dating another woman wouldn't be "proof" that he was really bisexual or heterosexual, any more than his dating me proved those things. He could easily put another woman through the same ringer if he was still "confused". Contrary to my earlier post, I think that rather than viewing him as gay (which could set me up for future angst), perhaps I should simply resolve that - as he certainly wasn't physically into me - WHOMEVER he might decide he is into in future, man or woman, is simply not my concern. He may not know the answers himself yet, and whatever answers he ultimately reaches will only need to concern him and his future partner(s).

 

But if you are still in love with him and you were still holding out for him to go back the healthiest thing may be to let this friendship go.

 

I'll be honest: until this latest debacle, I was still in love with him, and I was still hoping that he would come back (even if I didn't fully appreciate these things consciously). The experience of sharing with him how I felt has helped on a couple of levels. First, I shared enough with him that he would have had the opportunity to reconnect if he DID want to revisit anything, even though I didn't ask him to get back together with me. His response clearly indicated that he wasn't interested in that -- so, closure. Second, much though I have been fond of him, my ex can be very ... emotionally dense. I've spent the past two years - half as his girlfriend and half as his friend - trying to get emotionally close to him at any level, whether romantically or platonically. I feel as though both attempts failed - and his response this week to what I shared with him made me realize: he's really not emotionally available to me (or his other friends - based on my observations of their interactions), even as a close platonic friend. He tends to be friends with people who share his academic or extracurricular interests - being friends with him is more about an intellectual sharing than an emotional sharing, if that makes sense.

 

So I have a sense that his role in my life must be much more limited: someone with whom I can occasionally exchange updates about our shared interests. (That seems to be the approach most of his other friends take, too.) I think that two years has taught me the futility of wanting anything else from him - whether an emotionally caring/platonic friendship, or an emotionally and physically fulfilling romantic relationship. I understand better now, that he is who he is - and much of the hurt that I've felt throughout our friend-/relation-ship has been caused by my wanting him to be other/different than he actually is. That seems unproductive, and I feel ready to stop.

[Sunny1607307996]

I think that's a great idea. Keep your friendship "boundaries" as such so you don't know who he's dating or any details, or even their gender. And you're right, if he's as confused as his actions reveal he could very well put another woman through what you went through.

 

He sounds very confused about his sexuality and very sexually inhibited. On top of that he doesn't sound like a very good friend. He sounds emotionally unavailable in the friendship arena as well.

 

I think you can keep the friendship for what it is -- someone to have fun with occasionally. But I wouldn't rely on him for anything meaningful.

 

He sounds like he has a lot to sort out.