Have I Lost Her Forever?

[Ant1975]

Hi,

 

I've only just registered to this site and have found the advice to be a godsend. I only wish I had found it sooner.

 

Ok so here is some background to my situation. I met my ex girlfriend at Uni during my first year. We went out all during Uni and for a couple of years after (4 1/2 years in total) and we split 18 months ago just after christmas 2003. I was her first serious boyfriend and am 4 years older than her. I am 29 and shes 25 now but she was only 19 when we met and I was 25. We had a wonderful time together but we mutually agreed to end the realtionship for a number of reasons. The main ones being that after we graduated we lived a good 2 1/2 hours travelling distance between us. Although we managed to keep the relationship going for a couple of years after we ended up not really seeing eachother for weeks on end as the weekends were the only time as we both worked during the week. Also there was the issue of us not having cars or our own places (I was living with a friend and she was at home) so privacy was a bit of a problem. We just ended up going through the motions and the relationship ended up getting stale. Both of us wern't ready for moving in together and marrage etc as she was still young and hadn't really played the field as I was her first love. This I think was the main reason for us going our separate ways. I knew in the back of my mind that she would always be wondering what else was out there if we had stayed together so it was best if I let her do what she needed to do. Otherwise she would only end up resenting me and I would hate that to happen.

 

Anyway, so we split up but remained friends. We never did the no contact thing and I did all the usual things that so many of the people have done on here to try and get her back. I never begged or became obsessive but I did say that I wanted her back on a number of occasions for 4 or 5 months after the split. We used to speak 3 or 4 times a week and sometimes everyday and meet up and go out and do things together. We were always really affectionate with eachother although we never kissed properly. So after trying and trying I decided that enough was enough and I wanted to get on with my life. I met somebody else and ended up going out with her for 5 months up until christmas just gone. All during this new relationship I kept close contact with my ex and we were still good friends and phoned, met up etc. Around 4 months into my new relationship I met up with my ex for a catch up and we had a great evening and the subject came up of meeting new people. Given all my previous attempts at getting back with my ex I thought she'd moved on and was acting like she wasnt bothered and even said that she would be ok if I met somebody. So I decided to tell her. BIG MISTAKE. She broke down in tears and was completely devestated. This came as a complete shock to me as she was giving out the complete opposite signals. She lost a lot of weight and was completely unconsolable. I offered my support and was there for her when she needed to talk. We agreed to meet around christmas to exchange xmas presents and we ended up kissing and she told me she still loved me and I admitted that I felt the same. I realised that I didnt want a realtionship with my current girlfriend as I would often think of my ex and didnt think it was fair on her to string her along. I went out with my ex for New Years and we ended up kissing and I told her that I had finished with my current girlfriend. My ex then sort of said that although she was in love with me she couldnt have a relationship with me as she wasnt ready and felt she was too young to settle down. This of course brought me right back to square one of the healing process and I desperately missed her and wanted to give it another go. Of course I reaslise now that it was a case of her only wanting me so much because I was unavailable.

 

So it all blew over and we have remained friends and have gone back to the way we were before. We ring eachother and go out and meet up and have fun. I am trying to do the whole no contact thing and have been playing it cool and getting on with my life and everytime we speak I keep it light and upbeat. We went to a concert the other week and she held my hand and danced with me all night and said she still fancied me and wished that we had met later rather when she wasnt so young. I agreed and said that I didnt know what the future holds for us. She told me that she never really grieved for us when we split and I totally broke her heart when I told her about the new g/friend. She also asked if I still loved her. I said that I loved her but was not in love with her. I wish I hadn't of told her now about the new relationship as I would do anything for her and it broke my heart to think of what she went through.

 

We still really fancy eachother and the chemistry is still there and we get on brilliantly. I am just wondering if I have lost her forever as I have had a relationship in between and if it has pushed her further away. I desperately would like to give it another go with her as I feel like its unfinished business and we are still really close. I have improved myself as a man in all the areas that I knew she didnt like when we were together and she has noticed. I am also becoming more independent and not showing her I need her and doing my own thing and not being needy like after we first split. We still speak every few days and she always suggests going out and doing stuff together. I know that she needs to play the field and am wondering if she does want me or she knows that I am a comfort zone for her. I am confused as to whether she wants me or just wants to be friends. I am playing it cool but I love her dearly and I make sure I am there for her always and I think she knows that.

 

Any advice on this situation and what to do would be appreciated as I would like her back as I think we are great together. I don't want to lose her but fear I might if she meets someone else. I don't want to push her into it but want her to come to me. But I dont know if she is willing to make that step.

[Ant1975]

Can anyone help with some advice on this situation? Basically I just want to know if its too late to get her back as 18 months is along time. She is the best thing thats ever happened to me and I know that there is something worth fighting for.

[amaranth_04]

Hmmm

 

Well, I think it all comes down to her wanting to play the field. That's the impression I get from you.

 

Fair enough if she feels she's too young to settle down but she can't keep your life on hold. I wonder, why is it so necessary to ''play the field'' if you are satisfied with the one you're with.. Does she feel her ''inexperience'' is inadequate compared to yours?

 

Understandably she was hurt when she found out about your new g/f since she has feelings for you.. but you can't be made to feel guilty over that as it was her choice to break off, and it did not seem like you had set specific terms about what could be/could not be done during that break and when the two of you will get back together. You did say you wanted to be with her yet she resisted. And your break-up was about 6 months prior to you going out with your new g/f ? You can't be blamed for moving on.

 

The two of you need to sit down and have an open talk. If you're really who she wants, there isn't much need for her to keep looking, is there.. Fair enough she wants to experience things before settling down, but surely that can be done with the man she supposedly loves? Learn and grow together? Unless this need, for experience let's call it, is purely in the sexual arena..

 

Well whatever the area she wants to explore further, the two of you need to discuss which can be done together with compromise, meaning for example if it's travelling the world with a group of girlfriends, and you've done that with your buddies, let her have that experience, I'm pretty sure you can fit that in. But some other experiences are a bit more awkward and hurtful to wait for.. if you catch my drift..

 

So since the two of you are still very much interested in one another, you need to be a bit more upfront and specific about expectations. If there's too much conflict there, then it would be time to go your own way.

 

I hope this helps some.

[Ant1975]

Thanks for your advice. Its great to get an outside perspective on things. I think she does want to date other men and experience life on the dating scene as she has never really done that before as I was her first serious relationship. She is also quite young and not ready for the whole moving in together and marrage thing. To be honest I am torn between whether we are still in contact because I am just a comfort zone for her knowing that I am there and if shes just scared of commitment. I know that she had only started dating after I told her about the new relationship had ended. I think that gave her the push to go and date people as I know she didnt do it beforehand. I am going to carry on with my life and accept it's over for the time being whilst still being friends with her although I do still love her and want her back. If she truly loves me she will come back in time right? I just need to give her the time and space she needs to enjoy her life and be single. I am going to try and let her do the majority of the contact and remain confident and upbeat whenever we speak and meet. She contacts me fairly frequently at the moment but its difficult to judge her. One minuite shes quite confident and acts quite informal about things and when I'm confident and upbeat she asks "If I am seeing anyone", or "She still fancies me" etc. Its confusing the hell out of me. Am I doing the right thing for getting her back but at the same time getting on with my life? Please help!!

[shockeddismayed]

I dunno...

 

If this were a few months post breakup, I would think you are doing the right thing..

 

The problem is that you are 18 months out. I think this girl is being EXTREMELY terrible toward you and SELFISH.

 

I would be fine with you being friends with her IF she hadn't essentially asked you to end your relationship (note, she will deny that she had anything to do with it if you want my prediction). The fact that she played a role in that and then DIDN'T follow up on things should have been the last straw.

 

The friend approach works best when you are trying to get a confused person to realize her feelings. I think SHE KNOWS her feelings. She loves you, but your behaviour has helped her realize she doesn't need to COMMIT to you. You've endorsed this behaviour by staying in contact with her... allowing her to control your life (dumping girlfriend) and manipulate you for almost 15% of your adult life (ie 1.5 years of manipulation vs 10 years of adulthood), and perhaps more if things were sketchy during the relationship.

 

If I were you, I would sit her down... tell her how disruptive her behaviour was that it has forced you to wait for so long for something that might NEVER. Tell her that you love her, but that SHE has made it clear to you that nothing will ever happen. Tell her 18 months is more than enough time for her to have figured things out, and if she hasn't put that time to good use, perhaps it is because she doesn't WANT TO (ie what she wants is sitting in front of her).

 

After that I would never call her again.

 

You are right... after that, if she truly loves you, it won't take that long, but at least you will REALLY be moving on with your life.

 

EDIT: I DON'T think for a second that you have lost her forever... however I DO think that if you continue on this path, you will never get what you want from her... and worse yet, you will lose YOURSELF. That is just too much to risk. Things could go either way, but from what you've said, you have a better chance of happiness if you lay it on the line and then cut things off.

 

Sorry to be blunt... but this is WAY too long for her to be treating you like this. It is completely unfair and insensitive.

[amaranth_04]

I agree with shocked&diamayed.

 

I'd just like to comment on the bit I talked before that you should not be made to feel guilty for trying to move on. With your post after, it just seemed even more so that she's stringing you along.

 

I am torn between whether we are still in contact because I am just a comfort zone for her knowing that I am there and if shes just scared of commitment. I know that she had only started dating after I told her about the new relationship had ended. I think that gave her the push to go and date people as I know she didnt do it beforehand.

 

One minuite shes quite confident and acts quite informal about things and when I'm confident and upbeat she asks "If I am seeing anyone", or "She still fancies me" etc. Its confusing the hell out of me.

 

Of course, it's meant to confuse. It's not fair to you that you have to hold back just because you've had your own experience. She doesn't want to stay and experience things with you, she wants you to stall your life while she goes out and gets her esperiences, while at the same time holding you in on a tight leash. I don't think she's afraid of commitment. I think she does not wish to commit 'cos she feels you're not on the same page experience-wise. She seems to be holding that against you, not just wanting her own experience. Insecurity.

 

 

She needs to grow up. She doesn't own your life, she's no right dictating its progress. What are you supposed to do for meeting her at the time you did? You can't be made to feel guilty for living your life w/o her before when she was not there yet.

 

She's out dating but as soon as it sounds that you might be, she questions you. Does that sound fair to you? She wants to keep you there while she gathers her experiences but there's at least half a chance that her experiences will take her elsewhere, leaving you all alone.

 

I suggest carrying on with your life knowing that you're doing the right thing and have nothing to be guilty of. You offered yourself to her, she declined, and so you move on.

 

Whether or not you will get back with her further down the track, time will tell. Keep in mind though the way she holds things like these against you, things that are out of your control. She was with you for over 4 years, surely she was aware fairly early on that you'd have had more experience than her, given your age. If she wants someone with her level of experience, she's better off sticking to someone her age. Hopefully, after a while experience will teach her what she let go of.

[Ant1975]

Thanks for the great advice Shocked & Dismayed & Amaranth its helped me no end.

 

Just a couple of things though. I totally agree that she has been out of order in the fact that she chased me as soon as she knew I was with someone else. But I think it was more of a case of "her not wanting me to be with anyone else" and I know that she was still was an emotional wreck after I told her about the new relationship. I must admit that I wasn't really into my new relationship much and wasnt ready for another serious relationship so soon. It made me think that it wasnt what I wanted so it was unfair to continue but my ex's involvement didnt help matters. Thinking back I shouldnt of let it happen but you live and learn by your mistakes.

 

Your both right about the questioning of my activities with regards to relationships as she always seems to ask when I act confident and like I've moved on. I think that the strategy I am going to adopt is to not let her get to me emotionally anymore and move on and not expect anything of her and get on with my life. I would like her back and I do love her and I know she loves me but I'm not waiting around. Amarath, you made a good point about her not wanting to let me get too far away from her. She seeks reassurance that I am still there for her and I agree that I should change my actions to try and distance myself from her. I need to show her in my actions that I am not always going to be there for her and that she isnt going to have an emotional leish on me.

 

Shock & Dismayed - you said that I should sit her down and explain that I still love her and that she needs to make up her mind about me and cut all contact if she rejects me. I'm not sure that I want to do this as I know that she'll turn round and say "that shes not ready for a relationship with me". Purely for the fact that "she needs to experience other things" You are right about it being purely sexual as I think the same as I was her first lover. I don't want to lose contact with her altogether but I am gonna accept that its over and I dont think she needs to know that I need definite closure on the situation. I am going to let my actions speak for themselves.

 

I am going to emotionally remove myself from her and her actions as I do still want to be friends with her as she is a wonderful person even though you think that she has treated me badly. I don't think her actions were intentional. More of desperation and confusion. I am not going to make contact with her for the rest of the month. We are going to see Usher at the beginning of next month (her suggestion + I got the tickets). I am going to play it cool and treat her like a normal friend with no emotional ties. I know that as soon as I act like this she will start being affectionate with me, holding hands and asking questions etc. What should I do? Should I be affectionate back but emotionally removed from the situation or politely not return her affections without saying anything (so not to ruin the evening by making it an issue).

 

I have got plenty of time to prepare myself as its a month away but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[bitterbear18]

I'm going through a similar sort of ordeal.

 

I'm currently doing the NC thing and it's working. Just thinking about what I need to make sure I'm standing on my own two.

 

I wouldn't go anywhere with her as "friends"; it only creates more confusion when you see the person and although you can say that its out of friendhsip there will always be an underlying thing there.

 

No doubt that you love this person, but you have to protect yourself first mate!

[shockeddismayed]

Ant,

 

I'm sorry.... I am going through a very similar situation, so my own protective mechanism is kicking in here.

 

My girl left me after 7 years. I was her first, but we are the same age. There were times when she held my experience over my head... and told me so. But we were also having other problems, so these were the larger trigger in her leaving (her lack of experience was less the reason).

 

Anyway... she went out the first month and tried to start something with someone else, but couldn't cuz her feelings for me were too strong. Now we are in the confusing process of trying to figure out whether she is ready to try again (she's scared of being hurt, and scared of hurting me). I'm sure the experience issue is still somewhat there, but it doesn't take centre stage at all, cuz she saw that she just wasn't capable of putting her feelings for me aside.

 

So I play the supportive ex-boyfriend... we're even considering counselling.

 

BUT and this is a BIG BUT.... if I find that the progress is not sufficient, I've told her I am outta here. I WILL NOT help her grieve my loss, and I WILL NOT allow her to possess me without any committment.

 

I think you are making things WAY too easy on your girl. I wouldn't go to the concert with her b/c you asked this question "What should I do? Should I be affectionate back but emotionally removed from the situation or politely not return her affections without saying anything"

 

Let me ask you.... since you love this girl, how on earth are you going to be affectionate back without any emotion? How would that work?

 

I stand by my earlier advice. I think you are on a road to repeated heartache with this girl if you don't stand up and make your needs known.

[Ant1975]

I think I am going to accept that we are over forever and distance myself from her. I have to goto the concert with her as I've already got the tickets and can't refund them unfortunately. But I agree that I shouldnt initiate contact with her at all and not meet up with her in the future.

 

I am getting to the stage where I feel that I am finally moving on and that will allow me to manage to be friendly with her when I see her. I will know within myself that I am confident and have moved on and will be strong enough emotionally to deal with her being affectionate towards me. I have also thought about sitting her down and having the "talk" about our future. I am going to wait until after the concert to make that decision as it will depend on her actions on the night.

 

Shocked & Dismayed - I know where your coming from as we seem to be in the same boat with our ex's "wandering what else is out there" due to their reletive inexperience with relationships compared to ours. How long have you been split from your ex? I think its better to let them go or remain in minimal contact and move on and if they realise that your the one they want they will come back. I think by not breaking contact altogether it leaves that door open for them not to feel either too worried or proud to make contact. It doesnt stop you from getting on with your life but allows you to still make contact every so often.

[bitterbear18]

I've always wondered about not contacting someone...

 

If you don't call, does it look like a case of sour grapes?

 

And if you do, is it perceived as softness?

[Ant1975]

This is the first time that I am going to try the no contact rule but am confused about what to do if she rings me. Do I ignore it and wait until she contacts again making it seem like I'm busy? Or do I answer straight away and make sure the conversation is light and upbeat?

 

I am also wondering about when she calls as well. As sometime she has only rang when she is on a train home or she needs my advice or support. I think that she may be just using me as a comfort zone for her. I am going to start not being so readily available to her and show to her in my actions that I have my own life and don't need her. Its only been 3 days now and I am determined not to make contact. I'm just wondering about what strategies to enforce to let her know that she isnt in control of me anymore. Any advice would be appreciated as I know many people on here believe the NC is the way forward in determining how the other person really feels about you.

[bitterbear18]

First time I tried NC it took about 5 days for her to call...

 

And a weird one at that...

 

She was telling me how much fun she was having and how it's all about "her happiness".... she told me that she'd met new people and was going out and not worrying about anything. There was a lot of facetious comments and underlying sniping from her, it was siumply a weird conversation.

 

She then called again later that evening to tell me how much she missed me "in a friends capacity", wishing that "we could be friends forever, at least in this lifetime" and that she wished "the door to friendship would always be open." Well, obviously to the latter comment replied with a flat "no" and I admit it was good to hear her, the vibe was simply awkward.

 

We hadn't heard from one another until a couple of days ago, when I text messaged her to wish her good luck on her exams (I didn't know this breached NC!!) and she called back later in the evening. I didn't pick up as I had the phone on silent. I text meassaged her the next day to ask how she went to be polite, and she called to tell me how she went. So now I'm back to Day 1 of NC!

 

I hope to go at least a month of NC before I decide to truly move on or look at our relationship as a long term option.

[Ant1975]

Bitterbear - Sounds to me like she was trying to get a reaction out of you by trying to give the impression that she doesnt care by saying that shes having fun, going out etc. But the truth showed about how she really felt as she rang back saying all the "friends" stuff. Not quite sure what to make of what she means by being "friends" and leaving the "door to friendship always being open" though. Is she just using you as a friend until someone else comes along and its a good comfort zone for her.

 

I think your doing the right thing about having some time for yourself to help gain a better understanding about what you really want and what your true feelings are. I have found that all the while you have contact you never really get your true feelings towards the other person clear as your forever wondering about them instead of concentrating on your needs. I am in the same situation with the no contact as you and want to try and not initiate contact for a while. But I find it hard when after a few days or week they contact you and you can't really just not respond as I feel like I'm being rude as I wouldnt do this to any other friend. The strategy i am employing is to answer their calls but not contact them myself. Play it cool and confident and like you are moving on and try not to get drawn into their emotional stanglehold games over you.

 

I sometimes wonder if ex's just call you to make themselves feel better and wanted even if they don't really want you. They just want that emotional reassurance that you are there "living in hope" and not getting on with your life. Maybe I'm being synical but I believe if they truley love you and its meant to be they will soon show their true colours as soon as you show that your "moving on" and not under their emotional spell anymore, they will either want you back or be gone from your life altogether. Its a test that needs to be conducted otherwise you'll be forever playing games and end up getting hurt over and over as they know they have you but dont need to commit to you. Just look at my first post to see how complicated its been for me only to realise this is what I need to finally do for myself now. Wish I'd found this site 18 months ago ;-)

 

Any further advice from more experienced members would be greatly appreciated as I need guidance and any further help is always welcome.

[Ant1975]

Just an update to my situation really and some advice about what to do. I broke the NC rule with the ex yesterday and decided to tell her how I really felt about her (i.e. want us to try again and that I still love her). I basically did this as I need to know where i stand & taking advice from othe members in previous posts.

 

She was quite shocked as she had no idea how I felt. So anyway we had this long converstation about how we felt about eachother and I asked her what she wanted to do. She replied "She didnt know" and she admitted that she was "scared of commiting herself to me" after going through so much hurt before. I understood this and we both admitted that we still have feelings for eachother and I said that if we were to give it a go we should take it slowly. The conversation was sort of left open as to what to do as she had'nt said that she didnt want me back but simply "she didnt know".

 

So I got a mail this morning and the gist of it went like this:

 

"I won't write to much about what you said

last night as I think we probably need to meet face to face at some point.

I don't know what to say really about what you said. I am thinking about

it but I am a bit surprised. I appreciate you telling me tho only because

it helps me understand that it is effecting you more than I was aware of.

Maybe it is a good idea that after Usher we don't stay in contact. I'm not

sure if this will help matters. I don't want to lose contact with you, but

I know you are finding it really hard and to be honest I do know how you

feel and it completely killed me. So for your own peace of mind maybe you shouldn't have anything to do with me. Before we come to such a final decision tho, lets meet at some point."

 

I replied and agreed that we should meet and discuss it and got another reply:

 

"The only thing I ask is that you don't go weird on me. I couldn't take that and to be honest it would destroy anything between us. You probably needed to say those things to me because you owuld have regretted it if oyu didn't. I do think we need to meet up tho. Where? I don't know. When? I don't know either.... If we were to give it a go I would probably still want to see other people, but I'm just thinking out loud right now. I don't know how you would feel about this and to be honest it probably wouldn't be fair either...."

 

I said that I wouldnt be comfortable with her doing this but wasnt sure if she really meant it. I am not getting my hopes up but just need some advice on what to do and say when we "meet up" for this talk. I want to make this work but at the same time be able to walk away if she rejects me but still stay friends. Any advice please as I'm really confused about what to do. I think I have done the right thing in getting some closure on this situation and feel better for it.

[Ant1975]

Can somebody please give some advice on what to do with the above post. I love this girl dearly and don't want to lose her as a friend if things dont work out. Am really confused and need to know how to play it.

[breeny_uk]

Hello Ant

 

Not in a position to give you advice too much as I'm having a hell of a time getting over my girlfriend. No contact seems to be the order of the day but how hard is that!! Anyway I've found something that seems to be helping me rather well. Have you ever heard of a band called the streets? I should think you have living in London. Anyway they have a new album called 'a grand don't come for free' on there is a song called 'dry your eyes mate' have a listen, I hope it helps

[stinkyFlower]

I have read your topic and replies, very interesting I must say.

Now, Ive noticed it is dated June 2004, so I wonder is there any update on your situation

Are you still in contact with your ex, how do you feel now about her, do you have another g/f that you're close with...

just curious, as time heals everything

Ciao