where does experimentation end?

[murrayfaces]

I was wondering if anyone has any insight into this issue.

I have known this particular guy for almost 15 years. He is 4 years younger than me, and we've always been friends. He was actually my younger brother's best friend for a long time. For a while he tended to disappear on and off, and we wouldn't hear from him. Well, almost 2 years ago, he came back into my life. He said he had been a heroine addict/crack addict, living in motels, dating a stripper....needless to say now he was trying to clean up. Well, out of the blue we started sleeping together. One night it just happened, and then it continued to happen. I had been with other men before, but never long-term. In fact, he used to party with me and my ex-girlfriend. I don't know if he'd ever been with a man before. Well, we spared nothing in the bedroom, (I don't know what I can get away with saying on this forum?). It went way beyond groping, touching, etc....it was all the way. We did this for a couple of months, when we met this girl. I started sleeping with her, and eventually he wanted to join in. So, he and I having sex tapered off, as we were with this chic more. When we slept with her, it was like we were actually just sleeping with each other, and she just happened to be there. Well, eventually the 3-way thing went south, and it was back to he and I. We didn't have sex as much anymore, but we still did. Then, out of the blue one day, he decides that he doesn't want to do it anymore. He says that he was having sexual disfunction anyway(problems from being a recovering heroin addict), plus he said that he wanted our friendship together to last. He said that anytime he slept with anyone in the past, the relationship went sour. So, we stopped having sex.

 

Well, we recently split up, under less than good terms. I saw him not that long ago, and he tried to pretend that what happened between us only happened a few times, which we both know is false. He insisted that I was just a fag, and even went so far as to telling my friends about his new "girlfriend" who he'd known for like 2 days, in order to alleviate any questions about the nature of our relationship which were sure to happen as soon as we split up. As it turns out, everyone knew what was going on with us, but no one wanted to say anything, because it was an extremely negative relationship, filled with violence and anger at times. While we were together(after we stopped having sex), and even after we split, he insisted that he wasn't gay, and was just trying it out. Although one time I do remember him telling me that he didn't imagine that he was going to love as much as he did, and I think the whole thing just scared him.

 

I guess my question is this: where does experimentation stop, and where does an actual gay relationship begin. I know we had a relationship....we couldn't be apart for two seconds. We did everything together. People rarely asked us anything about it, but we would always deny it if it was a straight friend(mutual friends of ours). But, straight men don't tell each other every night that they love each other before laying down to sleep. Straight men don't do the things we did in bed. Again, I don't want to get this post censored, so I can't go into heavy deatils, but suffice it to say that it's stuff that would make anybody blush.

 

The reason why I ask all of this is because in our split, it's really made me analyze the type of people I'm attracted to, and I just wonder if I elicit these sexual feelings from straight men, or if I just attract all of the closet cases(like I'm one to talk

[russia]

an experiment is when 2 persons decide to try something out. a relationship is when they stop experimenting and really start planning and living together. did you 2 talk about your feelings, hopes, dreams, and plan your short term goals and long term future together?

 

if you didn't, it's just an extended fling. and if he hasn't been with gays in the past and none after you, then he was just sucked into a comfortable place for a while. when it became uncomfortable, he got out, as he always did.

 

when sex is just an act and not a component of a loving relationship, it's hard to define it as gay. just physical satisfaction. that would be the equivalent of eating a good bar of chocolate.

[niet]

and if he hasn't been with gays in the past and none after you, then he was just sucked into a comfortable place for a while.

 

hehe..

 

it was a relationship. but issues got in the way. i reckon..

[murrayfaces]

I actually don't know 100% for sure if he had ever been with another man before. If so, it may have been for less than stellar reasons, meaning, when you're a drug addict, you'll do anything for a hit. But, again, not absolutely certain of that. But, there's something about being able to tell when something is unfamiliar to someone, and he was way too comfortable, and knew his way around with men too much.

I don't really care if he's gay or not, because there is absolutely no way we could ever be together, because he has severe emotional/psychological problems, and he's really abusive. As far as the nature of our relationship before the ship sank, it was like any other romantic relationship. We did have plans for our future, which included him going to college/trade school, and I guess me supporting us. When we were together, we had "our" house, we had "our" cars, we had "our" cats. He rode to work with me every morning, sometimes come to lunch with me, pick me up from work, because we were so inseparable. After threatening to leave one time, we realized how hard that would be for both of us, and he promised to never leave me. So, I'm thinking, OK, so are we going to be a couple, or live in this sexless marriage(this was after we stopped having sex).

I don't want to think I lost a friend/ruined a friendship because of sex. But, we were way in too deep(no pun intended) when we both realized that we actually had feelings and cared alot about each other. I think. So we went from sex with a great friendship, to eventually a committed loving relationship but with no sex. The best I can see it is that when he realized how much he liked having sex with me(which he told me on numerous occasions), and he realized how much we meant to each other, he shut down. Putting those two together was just too much for him.