Why nice guys finnish last with girls

[ck]

Well I was on this site and even though it was about something else, but it had a statement that stuck out in my head about girls. It's very realistic; now I will expect the same girls to come in here and proclaim that is the minority of girls, and the same old cliche of "Not all girls are the same..yadda yadda yadda"

 

But seriously if you are seen as a nice guy you might want to read this.

 

 

If girls usually refer to you as "a nice guy," (or just internally thinking your one) and despite every girl's wish for a nice guy, they'd sooner be shot than date, let alone bang a guy like this. This type of guy is usually very introverted. And don't expect to be invited; this person is usually even shuned by the average and un attractive girls go figure.

[The Morrigan]

There's also a pointed difference between when a girl is referring to a "nice guy" as a gentle letdown and a "nice guy" to her girlfriends as a guy she'd like to get to know better.

 

It's a struggle to try to explain to a guy who is nice, attractive, and who you think you should be attracted to and aren't WHY, and this is a phrase that often comes out. (and I think leads to a lot of misunderstanding) It's not being nice that's unattractive though - it's a very individual thing, and while jerks with attitude might initially attract some girls, they won't keep any who have any self esteem for long. My first ex started as a "nice guy" (a little geeky in a way, intelligent, shy, sweet) and turned into "Mr Me First Jerk" and the intelligence and personality that attracted me sure wasn't worth the misery of keeping him around. Now, I wouldn't want a doormat either, that's the other extreme, but if I go into a relationship I also expect to be treated well - if a guy can't give me that, he can take his games elsewhere.

 

In short, I don't want someone I can walk all over - but I sure won't take being WALKED all over either. I imagine a lot of girls can relate to that, you want a partner, not a "master," and not a "slave."

[Tom_Bombadil]

That statement cannot be any more true. The saying "Nice guys finish last" is a saying I hear alot. This is something that women will deny in a heartbeat, but us guys know it to be so true. Its usually self-centered, rude, and obnoxious men who are the most successful with women. Unfortunately I was not born with the @#$hole gene that women love and find exciting. For once I just wish I could be the "bad boy".

[estevan_carlos]

Don't worry, it takes time. You'll get there eventually. I've already started myself. I'm 22, a bit of a late bloomer but i'll be taking advantage of women before you know it.

[ck]

@ the Morrigan

 

But we aren't talking about keeping girls are we, we are talking about initially and you just admit it yourself they are attracted to jerks right?

 

In short, I don't want someone I can walk all over - but I sure won't take being WALKED all over either. I imagine a lot of girls can relate to that, you want a partner, not a "master," and not a "slave."

 

Yeah I hear you girls say that a lot, yet I only see yall date jerks anyway. What constitutes inbetween a slave and master? For once I would love for any girl to elaborate I can't work with open ended answers.

 

It's much appreciated.

[vfunkera]

The amount of times guys have come here and complained about this is almost untrackable. You are right ck.

 

What would you guys call an attractive female? Nice curvy body, sweet voice, long gleaming hair, cute face. That is a fact right? Every girl i see walking on the street tries to fit this image because they know its what attracts guys. The majority of girls are going on diets from the age of 12 onwards in order to look good. They pay bucks to straighten their hair, wear make-up and hours trying to find clothes that looks good on them, getting breast and bum implants as well as nose jobs etc.

They do not coming here complaining, 'oh why do overweight girls never do better then slim girls', 'why does it take so much effort being a girl' because its what being a girl is all about, and its also what attracts guys to them.

 

FACT: You are a man. A MAN. A man is supposed to be or at least try to be confident in himself and his ability, thus liking himself and giving himself value: SECURE. A man is someone who goes out and goes for what he wants: AMBITION. He shouldn't take any slack from anyone: POWER. He isn't a boy.

What represents being a man? Big muscles on your body and going to the gym, adopting a male attitude, short cut hair, a bit of facial hair here and there, hanging out with the boys etc. Believe it or not, acting like a man is what attracts girls, and once you realise that then you will always be stuck where you are. Girls are not aliens or unique creatures. They are as human and as sexually motivated as we are, so being a great example of a typical man is as attractive as a girl being a great example of a female to guys.

 

Being an insecure guy is about as big a turn-off to a female as being an overweight girl is to a guy. Being Insecure is not sexy and attracting, its a turn off. The fact is that girls do like strong men. If you are insecure and unsure about yourself, she won't think of you as the best response to her biological needs.

 

An over-weight or not a great looking girl has about as much right to complain about her probable low success ratio as you do about nice guys coming last, because both genders have turn offs based on their biological needs and wants. Don't complain about here as if it will change the whole male characteristics upside down, get up and get confidence.

 

No guy is naturally born 'bad boy', just like no girl is naturally born obese (sorry ladies but its the best example i can think of ). You cannot change your genes. But you can change the way how you treat those genes, and if you've mistreated them, then its time for you to stop whinging, and start joining by doing something about it. Represent.

 

Good luck

[The Morrigan]

I said "initially attract some girls" and generally, less experienced ones (no offense) when it's still hard to see what's confidence and what's arrogance. Will some girls be attracted initially by that? Yes. How long does it take most of the ones with a healthy self esteem to be turned off by it? Not very. There's a line between having enough confidence to be able to talk and flirt without being self conscious, and being arrogant "I can have whoever I want" that becomes apparent, and while yes, some girls are attracted by the seemingly unobtainable, so are some guys, it's not a sex limited thing. Look, while you might be initially attracted to a chick who's flirty, cute, and outgoing, how long are you going to STAY attracted if she makes it clear she thinks much more highly of herself than of you, and she thinks she's entitled to special treatment to keep her? That attitude wears thin fast coming from either sex - while they might get initial attention, they're not any more than "fun to flirt with, bad news as a bf/gf" material, and most of us get enough sense to steer clear after getting burned before getting even as far as dating.

 

In between slave and master? Someone who will invest equal effort into a relationship, have their own ideas and opinions regardless of mine, but respect mine as well. I expect to invest effort into a guy if I want it returned - but I don't expect to have to bust my butt for the equivalent of a pat on the head either. I like doing the little things for my guy, I expect him to think of me enough to do the same. And if I'm being particularly snappy, I expect he'll have the brass to tell me I'm being unreasonable and not just say "whatever you say dear..." to avoid conflict. Same in reverse. To me, that's part of respecting not just the person you're in a relationship with, but yourself. How could I respect someone who doesn't respect himself? And I don't expect a guy to respect me if I don't respect myself either.

 

If I want fawning, I'll get a puppy. If a guy expects fawning from me, I'll get HIM a puppy and show him the door.

[Princess777]

I think the "nice guys' aren't thinking about the "nice girls". If the supposedly "nice guys" think that women have it so easy, then think about what it's like to be constantly compared to supermodels and celebrities. Dont' you think it's possible that tons of guys meet girls that they are simply not interested in for their own personal reasons so they call them "a nice girl"?????????? It's merely opinion and personal preference. Whether you finish last or not is totally dependent upon when and if you meet the person with whom you best match up. What if you went out and found some of those "nice girls"????????????? Just my opinion of course.

[Nifty_Swifty1]

The statement that nice guys finish last is right on the money no mater how bad it is. There are exception, but the seem to be one in a couple billion. I've never met one myself, but I'm just assuming that there has to be a couple out there. Women aren't attracted to guys that don't show at least some signs that he's a butt. The only women I've seen that go after the nice guys are the ones that are already married. Now what good does that do us now? Unless you're someone that wants to get in the middle of someone's marriage and that wouldn't make you a very nice guy now would it?

[pchellak]

I will have to agree with Vfunkera on this one. Guys, we need to stop complaining, shed all womenly qualities and learn to be jerks. I'm not sure if we will get more dates or score more points with the ladies, but we will feel good about ourselves for playing them right.

[neva_black_n_white]

I will have to agree with Vfunkera on this one. Guys, we need to stop complaining, shed all womenly qualities and learn to be jerks. I'm not sure if we will get more dates or score more points with the ladies, but we will feel good about ourselves for playing them right.

lol thats one unique way to look at it, so you want to become what you have always complained about? so technically if so, what you have complained about is what you have envied, and in reality have only been jealous. lol. ok then, now i begin to understand.

 

only if i felt so strong i dont reakon id play the tricks that once annoyed me. just a thought.

 

but id like to say great words from princess777!! nicely said girl.

 

and yeah your intial saying could be true but i dont really see it like that, i guess i am one of those girls who says, yeah but, but i never said minority, i can see majority and then minority good. i know my man isnt bad, or a jerk, or something pathetic, he is what you say women hate and i dont, i love him and ive had more respect for him than any man!

to date im sticking to it and thats all i can offer!

 

kel

[dasbin]

This is so dumb.

 

What happened to just being who you are?

I'm a 'nice guy' and I always try to do the right thing and I think I'm very unselfish. And maybe that means I don't score as many chicks - whatever. I'm not going to change myself just because I have some plan to get with as many girls as possible - I wouldn't feel like they truly loved me for who I was in that case, anyway.

This is who I am - I'm a nice guy, I'm geeky, I have low self confidence, I have image issues - and no amount of rejection is going to make me pretend to be something I'm not. I was loved - true love, the best most amazing love there is - by a girl purely for who I am for 3 years of my life, so I know that there are girls (or at least a girl) out there who don't need me to put on a facade to be attracted to me.

 

And even if there weren't any girls like that... I'm not going to compromise who I am just to get some. That is so wrong.

True love isn't some 'game' that so many people around here seem to think it is. It's about sharing yourself with someone - the whole you, and nothing but you - and getting the same in return.

[neva_black_n_white]

god dasbin that must be one of the most inspiring things ive heard for a while, related to this subject and good on you for that thought. see if your honest to yourself, dont complain and appreciate what you DO have you'll get somewhere!

 

nicely said, and i wouldnt change myself for someone again, i did one, and all they do is appreciate they ''you'' before. just eb you and enjoy it!

 

kel

 

p.s. youve got a great head on your shoulder,s and your not influenced byu the majority!

[dasbin]

well i must admit that, if i hadn't been as lucky as i have with having the most amazing girl in the universe to tell me that's how i should see myself, then i might be as bitter as most of the other guys here.

 

 

in fact, i AM bitter, because she broke up with me 4 months ago because she's not sure what she wants, and i admit i've had some 'nice guys finish last' kind of thoughts. but i do remember what she told me. and every time i've seen her since we broke up she's told me the same stuff, to keep looking at myself like that regardless of what happened to our relationship, and to always just do what's best for me. that's why when i told her no-contact yesterday (for myself, NOT as a plan to get back with her, though i would love that), she completely understood and was even supportive of me, even if she didn't want to lose me as her best friend (and i'm really sad at losing her as a friend too... i'm sure this won't be forever, even if it means i have to wait until i can look at her as only being a friend).

 

i guess that kind of girl does that to you. this attitude will hopefully be with me the rest of my life as a result, regardless of what happens.

 

eh, sorry for blabbering. that's my story.

[pchellak]

Neva,

I am beginning to believe in change, if becoming a jerk gets me what i want then, so be it. I think of it as evolution of a nice guy to a jerk. If women want to be treated like s***, thats what they will get. You see, this way i get what i want(i am hoping here ) and they get what they deserve.

[doorik]

As long as nice guys continue to get burned, there will always be a healthy supply of new jerks on the horizon to provide the dose of misery that women seem to yearn for. Eventually (often quite quickly), these nice guys will realize what type of man women actually want. The result is something that snaps inside of them as they begin to mimic the jerks that most women seem to pursue incessantly.

 

To become that kind of man, the charade must be taken to the extreme, which involves acting like a selfish person that has no regard for other people's feelings. This amounts to a jerk that will say anything to get a woman into bed. The jerk will furnish her with tons of roller coaster emotions and once he has sex with her, he'll dump her. Why? Because he feels vengeful and wants to burn women the same way he was burned. Remember; once you get burned, don't STOP playing with fire -- you TAME the flame.

 

So when women inadvertently give life to these jerks, they are really shooting themselves in the feet. That's the life and legacy of jerks everywhere

[vfunkera]

I maybe should have pointed out that confidence isn't something you should put on. Its not about changing yourself. Its about upgrading yourself to a better more attractable person.

 

Putting on a certain behaviour is not an upgrade, its a mask. Sooner or later that mask will come off and the insecure face will be seen or eventually exposed. And like Morrigan said, a relationship won't last long if this is the case. Instead you need to gain and increase that confidence to a level that it is natural, and the jerk that is inside ALL OF US should be begging to come out. By being a more secure person you won't be changing who you are as a result.

 

Its not about some smooth manuevers and methods but of your own outlook on the world and on women. ANYONE can memorize 'techniques', but FEW can change the way HOW they think. Women will be able to sniff out the former. But with the latter, women will be clawing at each other for you, because you will simply be an attractive man. What you need to do on a personal note on this level is to be assertive. Have total respect for yourself, but also respect the females of this world.

 

Dasbin is right in that its sad that we simply can't be ourselves and hope to attract on a regular basis. But then that would defeat the whole purpose of competition, challenge and chase which women love, eh? After all, if we think we can someone better, we will. This holds true for both men and women. The last thing we want to settle for is a mate when we could have gotten better, and that is what has led us to the 21st century finding out ways to be better.

 

I mean you can say, "Well, that is just who I am." That then only leaves you as the common denominator in your pattern of crash and burn in terms of dating (and of course if your happy to settle for that and happy in the position you are in, then its all good- you are unique and a quality minority in this world mate! ).

 

good luck guys

[pchellak]

Well said, Doorik. I consider it evolution of the nice guys. I guess its win-win for both the guys and the girls. Although i must admit it is quite tough to be a jerk if you are a natural nice guy. Any suggestions ?

[ck]

I'm going to start off by saying man some of you girls are full of it, most of yall don't know what yall want.

 

@ the morrigan

 

I'm talking about getting a attraction the initial thing, I don't know where your going with the long run, but I am not talking about the long run.

 

To the one who said it's not easy being a girl, let me tell you it is easier being a girl then a guy due to all of the laundry-list of things you have to add up to, while all women have to do is look good and your in.

 

You think fellas could just look good and that would be that...Hell no, you got to be good looking, smart, have a certian amount of money, have muscles, ect. I'm telling you I don't have to be a girl to figure that out, or ^ 5's for approval.

 

to the rest

 

Who talk about stop complaining, let me start off by first saying who on this site doesn't complain?? I wasn't even complaing first of all I was trying to help all of the "good guys" out, if your a good guy and don't need this advice, or your not a good guy hoorah for you; ignore me.

 

I'm however not just going to shut up because yall don't want to hear it.

[ck]

Pchellak I forgot to answer your question.

 

you really don't have to be a A-hole to get your point accross, just don't let these girls order you around, or have you doing stuff for her all of the time. It's about standing your ground, if you tell me what kind of nice guy things you do maybe I can help you out a little bit more.

 

Peace.

[pchellak]

Here are some of the nice things i do,

1.) pick a girl up from her house on a date. (even if her house is like 1 hour drive from my place)

2.) When i get a girls phone number i call her up promptly the next day.

3.) I open the door at restaurants for a date,at least most times .

4.) If a girl blabbers on the phone, i used to listen to her even if she went on and on for like an hour. (I have stopped doing this )

5.) I dont speak foul language in front of a girl.

6.) I rarely get into a physical fight with the guys. Mostly because i cant physically win fights.

7.) If and when i play Video Games, I let her win sometimes even though i could have kicked her butt.

 

These are some of the things i probably shouldnt do. What are your thoughts ?

[doorik]

A lot of guys hear ladies complaining about how their boyfriends are so bad and how they "hate them" for not doing (fill in the blank here) for her. When impressionable young men hear this they immediately come to the conclusion that if they treat women how they say they want to be treated they will be successful with women. Then these young men find it strange to hear comments like "your such a sweet and perfect guy", "any girl would be lucky to have you", "you're sincere and honest and would make the perfect boyfriend".....for some OTHER woman.

 

Does this make any sense? I believe it does.

 

I ask that all the fellas reading this just observe women's actions rather than what they say. For example;

 

Let's say a young lady tells you her favourite breakfast is a nice healthy grapefruit. She complains over and over again about how pancakes with butter and maple syrup with a side of sausage is really bad for her as it makes her fat and so on. However, you notice that she orders pancakes with butter and lots of sausages on a normal basis even though she complains about how bad that breakfast is and that she much prefers the wholesome grapefruit. Would you not conclude that she prefers the breakfast that she so passionately complains about?

 

Discuss...

[neva_black_n_white]

dasbin, i like your honest and i can see your bitterness, i have believed that men want to become something bad because of a womans treatment and possibly women with men. i mean we all act upon what we have felt.I like how you see both sides of the coin, I mean you seem to have both a positive and negative yet see through it and then apply it to what you want. Its pretty cool.

I'm glad you view it like that.

 

Pchellak I know what you mean when you responded, I guess that's like saying it's the only option or route you can take where you gain. But what if a girl doesn't deserve it and the roles reverse where you're the player and she isn't? maybe one time you will miss out. But still I can completely see where your coming from and why.

 

kel

[Princess777]

Greetings again,

 

I hope I can help some of the "nice guys"..... I don't wish to create trouble at all. Not to discount your despair, but I gather that a lot of the bitterness from you gentlemen (and I've met plenty of you) boils down to the statement that "you women don't know what you want". Well, Good God, can you blame us, a lot of guys don't know what they want either.........One minute you guys are hot, then you're cold. One minute you're all over us and tell us you love us, etc, then you don't call for days or move into the "silent mode"... it's very confusing, who wouldn't be confused???? (I'm married now but I went through this)......We females, strictly by nature are searching for a strong, dominant male to multiply with us (it's ingrained in us whether we admit it or not). We are mammals and that is a fact that no one can deny. And with those genetics come certain traits. We only want the strongest to make strong offspring, it's a survival thing.... it's in our genetic makeup.... it's something that we cannot deny or get away from, no matter how hard we try.

We want to feel protected and safe, we want something from a man that we cannot provide for ourselves. So when we see the "jerk" as you put it, or the "bad boy".... it's an unfair judgment to make that we only go for the a-holes... we only go for the guys who are stronger than US..... that's why I suggested you "nice guys" go for "nice girls" who are a little less dominant than most girls. The fit, as a couple, would be better. It's just like your average girl competing against the supermodel type woman who appears to crap on every guy walking and they still come running. Yes, we women run after the guys who treat us like crap but can you guys honestly say that you don't run after the women who treat you like crap????? I think not. Being beautiful doesn't just get a female "in". Many beautiful women cannot hook up with the right guy.... know why? Cause they can't find one strong enough in every aspect to match up to HER. It's the challenge and the ACCEPTANCE that we all want, and when we don't instantly get it, we'll do anything to get it. And that's all there is to it, male or female. Hope this helps some.... thank you for listening to my opinion.

[sckoobs]

The whole 'nice guy' argument is a real pile of. I reckon it comes from society's ideas of how men and women should act, personally I'm turned off by the woman who wants to look like the 'in' actress or supermodel - where is the individuality in that?

 

Is there not such a thing as a relationship based on equality? Biologically speaking we have animal instincts to satisfy, thats fine, but; quote: 'We only want the strongest to make strong offspring, it's a survival thing' - we all want a healthy partner - for sure, but if we went to extremes of finding the 'strongest' and were that driven by our animal instincts, all girls would be chasing 30 year old male athletes and all guys would be chasing full-bodied, wide-hipped women i.e: natural child-bearers, slim girls; the social norm today, wouldn't even get a look in, so how can you say at our level of evolution and by the society that we have nurtured that we are so dependant on cave-man ethics?

 

Women want men who are stronger than them??? Does being a nice guy mean you are physically or mentally/emotionally weak!?

 

I completely agree with dasbin; 'What happened to just being who you are?', the fact that you follow trends in society in an attempt to fit in is brainless, if you have no individuality you are just a headless chicken. Subscribing to stereotypical fascinations is delusional, life is not so black and white, how can you go through life lying to yourself so much!?

 

Personally, what I look for in a woman is a quality that I also posess, someone who has enough confidence in themself to, basically not care what anyone else thinks.

 

I am who I am for me and no one else, I will not adapt to societies norms because; sure I might be a 'bad boy' and 'score more chicks' or whatever, but I'd still have to answer to my conscience. I do what I feel is right, I respect others feelings and needs, I do to others as I would have them do to me - if that warrants me the label 'nice guy' then what the f**k do I care? I feel very passionately about this, because in my opinion I was pretty much a social recluse throughout my school days, but I have no regrets because I am happy with who I am today.

 

I change for nobody except me; THATS survival.