To all the guys: What you think of....

[yeawutever]

girls that tend to or say ''YES'' to everything and apologize a lot in the relationship.

 

Reason is because I'm realizing that in my 1 year and 6 months relationship, I was the one apologizing the most out of anything and at times I feel I'm saying ''YES'' to almost everything.

[Snoopy24]

I would think they don't have a backbone.

[Batya33]

Not a gender issue or even a romantic relationship issue. It's an issue in all friendships and relationships when someone does not have enough of a backbone.

[yeawutever]

I guess it works both ways. For some reason if I don't like something (such as him insisting on seeing me exactly at 130 ibs when he comes visits me), I tend to say ok and not be that much of a confrontational person that sets things straight.

 

I don't know if this relates to my childhood experience with a friend in 4th grade (let's called her C). C would say stuff like ''Bring me this, that or I won't be your friend, ''Do this, that or I'm not your friend and I would basically do as I was told.

 

This proceeded all the way till 8th grade when I got suspended for stealing a CD package. This was because a kid told to me steal it, that he would be my friend and give me 2 bucks and he keep insisting so I did it.

[Batya33]

How is saying "no" automatically confrontational? What about "no, I am not comfortable doing that" or "thanks for sharing that you would like me to be a certain weight. I will decide the weight that is healthiest for me and if I need your help with that, I'll let you know, ok?"

 

is it better to lie, like you are and say yes when you feel "no?"

[yeawutever]

Well we did have a talked about it, but he seems to charm me that I end up saying ok. He say that he's only trying to look after me and that if I start gaining more weight that then it would be hard to lose it. And well he gets sweet everytime that in the end I almost always end up feeling guilty and sometimes apologize, then say ok again.

[Lionel Hutz]

After a while it becomes a turn off when somone is completely passive. Learning to say no set boundaries. It is almost dishonest to say yes to something when you really want to say no. Lots of room for resentment is created also. Learn to stand your ground but in a respectful way. This creates a solid foundation and also promotes good communication.

[tiredofvampires]

It seems to me there's been a Catch-22 at play a lot in my past.

 

Men do want a woman, intellectually, who will be their equal and be able to say "No" and have healthy boundaries.

 

But emotionally, it's a different story. The men who applauded my independent spirit the most at first were the very same ones to feel threatened by my challening their point of view (even if I did so without hostility or aggression), by disagreeing, or especially telling them that I had my own way of doing things. In the end, it was about my "displeasing" them, which then turned into an ugly battle of retaliation, stone-walling, resentment, passive aggressive behavior, or outright aiming for some jugular of mine to goad me into feeling guilty/bad/insecure about what I was saying or feeling or wanting.

 

I'm not sure I know how to deal with such a double message, so to speak. Having someone who respects you for standing up for yourself without becoming vindictive or cutthroat or defensive when you are living by your lights and it doesn't suit THEM has been a real conundrum for me. Maybe the answer is just to seek people out who wish to discuss differences and care more for compromises and level discussion than power plays.

[Lionel Hutz]

To put it in short my ex surprised me with alot of emotion and instances where she said yes and really meant no. A good example would be the times i would go out with friends. She acted like she did not mind but she truly was disappointed when I'd go out. Later it all came out in the case she built against me for our break up.

[Batya33]

OK, so it's your choice to give in and not have a backbone. As I wrote on another thread, an adult who cares about another adult would never (ever!) tell the other person she "has to" be a certain weight in order to make him happy. And a person who respected herself would never stand for that or for the excuse that it is because he "cares." If he cared, he would tell you he was worried about your health and he would let you choose what to do about it and then if you asked for his support (if you asked!) he would give it to you.

 

Look, if you want to continue letting him "charm" you with sweet words and it's easier to say yes than to stand up for yourself, go for it. But be prepared to accept the really bad downsides - being in a relationship where your decisions and actions are controlled by someone else, being with someone who believes in manipulating you with sweet words, giving up your freedom to see your friends, go to school, your job etc because if he decides he wants you to do something else - and says it in a sweet way - you will say yes, right?

 

It's easier in some ways to be in a prison like environment - you never have to make your own decisions. But you also never grow or learn how to be in a healthy relationship.

 

It's your choice.

[tiredofvampires]

After a while it becomes a turn off when somone is completely passive. Learning to say no set boundaries

 

See, exactly -- I have taken chances to set boundaries, and as soon as I do, thinking my partner will appreciate them (since usually I am with guys who are pretty good at their own boundaries, while I tend to be the "softie" who accommodates a lot), I am shown great disrespect. Not that being a doormat gets respect. It's kind of like pick your poison with some guys. Not all, but the ones I tend to have been with.

 

I think some people (not just guys), but in this case guys, prefer to feel they have control and disrespect a woman than to have her being respectably contrary. They feel threatened more than they'd like to believe.

[Batya33]

I think the best way is to show that you are a person who has boundaries and requires respectful treatment from the first meeting/date.

[Purple1]

Well we did have a talked about it, but he seems to charm me that I end up saying ok. He say that he's only trying to look after me and that if I start gaining more weight that then it would be hard to lose it. And well he gets sweet everytime that in the end I almost always end up feeling guilty and sometimes apologize, then say ok again.

 

Ok your only 130lbs and thats not heavy for a start! From the way you are talking (I don't know you so I can only guess here!) It sounds like he might be bullying you slightly. If you put on weight it shouldn't matter to him. Love should be unconditional. Even if he says its because he's trying to look after you. You should be the only one to decide if putting on weight is a problem. I wouldn't let it carry on because it will start to affect your self esteem. If you put on weight naturally and couldn't lose it you would worry how he felt about you. He should support you no matter what and if and when you feel that your weight is an issue then he should be supportive and encouraging of your decision to stay fit and slim but he should let you decide! Hope that makes sense!

[Lionel Hutz]

I think some people (not just guys), but in this case guys, prefer to feel they have control and disrespect a woman than to have her being respectably contrary.

 

The word contol sounds so brash. Me personally I do not want to control my s/o but i'd most definatley want to have an influence. It shows some level of repsect I realised and its a two way street. Any other way would be a double standard. One should be able to agree and be inlfuenced by their S/O without feeling threatened. Its healthy and helps two people grow together. I learned this with my selfish behavior, after a while she felt disrespected that I would not take into consideration that i would not stay home some nights. In return she would do the same and give a dose of my own medicine. Clear communication and compormise is key. Non threatening boundaries must be discussed or else someone is going to feel run over.

[Superfreak]

I tend to appreciate a girl that apologizes when she makes mistakes and is generally agreeable. I'm not perfect but in relationships I tend to never really do anything that warrants making my partner angry so I find that some partners might just invent stuff to get angry at and I appreciate when they apologize for making something out of nothing.

 

I think the line is when you start saying "Yes" to things that don't make you happy. If I'm doing something that you don't want to do or don't agree with etc. I want to know about it and a partner that just goes along with whatever I say I'd always start to wonder if she's secretely despising me for it.

[yeawutever]

Nice to hear what you guys think. Interesting how it works vice-versa too, one guy did mentioned being a turn-off being too passive. I guess guys do get turn off if we're too nice, kinda like a doormat.

[tiredofvampires]

I think the best way is to show that you are a person who has boundaries and requires respectful treatment from the first meeting/date.

 

But lots of pretenses go on, on the first date. People are on their best behavior until about 6 months in, intuitively knowing that you can't just diss your partner. You've got to wait for a while until they really have a lot invested in you to start feeling comfortable enough to start making demands on them and dissing them when they don't feel right about those demands.

[Batya33]

I think you should stop thinking of it in terms of gender - as you said, you behaved this way as a child in a friendship. And, it doesn't matter whether it's a turn off because the important issue is - if it doesn't turn you off to be a doormat and continuously lying to him (yes when you feel "no") then you have a bigger issue than whether he is turned on or off. Just like I recommended on the other thread please go talk to a counselor at your college.

[tiredofvampires]

I agree with everything you've said here, especially the bolded part. I was using the word "control" because I do think some people DO tend to see agreement/disagreement in almost adversarial ways -- like my ex. It got to a point where I couldn't express an opinion without him getting on his high horse, or say that I needed something or wanted to do something other than what he envisioned, without a long argument ending in my apologizing for at very least making him unhappy, if not agreeing to the thing itself. People have ways of subtley making you think you owe this to them, to make them satisfied and happy.

 

I do think that some people just have a greater need to control others, instead of give up a little for the good of the whole. And in cases like the OP's situation, this reeks of "control" in the sense that he wants something in the abstact with a gf, even if she doesn't possess it, so he's going to try to make this situation into what he desires. That's selfish if you want to use that terminology, and controlling by my view. He wants her to be a certain way so that she's what he wants, not what she wants to be.

[Batya33]

And, worse, he's cloaking it with the manipulative - and cliche "it's because I care" and whispering sweet nothings.

 

The real problem here is the OP who is choosing to participate in this behavior and enable it.

[Lionel Hutz]

I agree with everything you've said here, especially the bolded part. I was using the word "control" because I do think some people DO tend to see agreement/disagreement in almost adversarial ways -- like my ex. It got to a point where I couldn't express an opinion without him getting on his high horse, or say that I needed something or wanted to do something other than what he envisioned, without a long argument ending in my apologizing for at very least making him unhappy, if not agreeing to the thing itself. People have ways of subtley making you think you owe this to them, to make them satisfied and happy.

 

I do think that some people just have a greater need to control others, instead of give up a little for the good of the whole. And in cases like the OP's situation, this reeks of "control" in the sense that he wants something in the abstact with a gf, even if she doesn't possess it, so he's going to try to make this situation into what he desires. That's selfish if you want to use that terminology, and controlling by my view. He wants her to be a certain way so that she's what he wants, not what she wants to be.

 

Agreed (and I mean it, im not being submissive. Honest). LOL!

[Batya33]

But lots of pretenses go on, on the first date. People are on their best behavior until about 6 months in, intuitively knowing that you can't just diss your partner. You've got to wait for a while until they really have a lot invested in you to start feeling comfortable enough to start making demands on them and dissing them when they don't feel right about those demands.

 

I am not sure what dissing has to do with not being a doormat. I mean carrying yourself and behaving like a person who feels entitled to be treated appropriately and with respect. For example, a man who wanted to take me on a first date wanted to meet on a street corner at night. I said, nicely "i don't meet men on street corners at night, please pick a restaurant and call me with the details." Or, if the man is overly critical of me I stand up for myself - nicely but firmly.

 

I also don't know what it has to do with making demands. I don't make demands and I am no doormat. I communicate with people to let them know if I feel uncomfortable with something that was said or done.

[tiredofvampires]

I guess the best way for me to explain would be by examples. These are two real ones from my last relationship: (I hope this isn't too far off topic, OP, but I think it's in the same family):

 

Dissing: I have a habit of taking out doggie bags when I haven't finished my meal at a restaurant, unless there are only two bites or so left of my dish. If it could be even a small part of lunch the next day, I don't like to waste food and find that often it saves me from having to prepare a snack the next day, if it's just a little bit of food. Well, I started noticing a pattern with my bf when we were out somewhere and with a group of people that when I indicated I might have to get a doggie bag, I sensed he was uncomfortable in some way. A couple of times he laughed nervously at the end of a meal when I asked the wait help for a takeout of my leftovers, and said, "Honey! You want to save that?" and I felt a little patronized. Finally, we went out just the two of us to a fine dim sum restaurant, and I'd taken more dumplings than I was able to finish, I'd misjudged my appetite. So, I told him that I wanted to wrap up what was left. He said, "It's really not worth it, is it?" And I said, "Well, being on the very low, tight fixed income I have, I feel really bad to waste food when there are people starving in the world, who would kill someone to be able to eat just these few morsels." And he shot back, "Oh? So if you're so grateful, is that why you are always complaining about how little assistance you get?" (I have a disability.) What I realized after this blow, which destroyed my entire day, was that he didn't respect that I was being so frugal -- he didn't want to look that "desperate" and somehow my habits offended him in some way. So what does this have to do with being a doomat? I simply was so burnt by that, I just didn't even ask for my doggie bag next time, because I felt so judged by him. So at that point, I was COMPLYING. It was his tastes/method of operation over mine, because he'd just poisoned my choices enough to make them completely distasteful to me to want to do in his presense.

 

Demands: We were at a doctors' appointment of mine, and I told him that he could go off and do something else he wanted to do. He and I both figured this appointment wouldn't take long, but I didn't know for sure. So I told him I didn't want him to have to wait. He told me galantly that he'd be fine waiting in the waiting room. Well, I took almost an hour talking to the doctor, as the night was slow and he was giving a lot of thought to my problem, which I appreciated. When I got out, my bf was no where to be found. I waited for about 20 minutes and he came back into the clinic, some snacks in hand, looking stormy. We got into the car, and he proceeded to tell me that I had no respect for his time, taking that long. I told him promptly, "But I TOLD YOU to go off and do something else!!" and he said he had no idea I'd be "so oblivious" to the fact that he had said he'd be waiting for me outside. I said, "This was an important discussion I was having with a doctor, not a social hour, I wasn't just killing time in there! Doesn't my health matter to you?" He backed down, but not before saying, "Listen, I wouldn't make someone wait like that, knowing they WERE waiting, but that's just me [implying I am a demanding person and inconsiderate too]." He topped it off with, "Nevermind, I'll live. I don't want to be selfish. But you don't understand how this wasn't right. You don't get it, you don't get me, but that's okay." I begged him to explain what part of this I wasn't getting, but he just shut it down there, leaving me with the weight of my "demands" to hang myself.

 

These are not things that can be assessed on a first date. On a first date, he'd be asking the waitress charmingly for a take-out bag for me, and sitting up with me late at that 24-hour clinic showing what a knight he is. That's what I mean by things taking time to come out and show themselves, and being easily hidden on a first date, when someone can be the most marvelous gentleman. That continues for months.

[Batya33]

To me being assertive and not allowing yourself to be controlled has as much to do with the little things as the big things and the general way you carry yourself. No, I am probably not going to send something back at a restaurant on the first date because I want things to go smoothly, but if a man is very late to meet me with no apology you can bet I will make it clear that I don't tolerate that kind of behavior. Same if a man makes an inappropriate sexual remark or any kind of offensive remark.

 

Just because I don't show a man all my quirky habits on the first date and expect him to accept them doesn't mean he doesn't get the clear impression that I treat myself with respect and expect that from others. He does and I've heard feedback several times from people to that effect. And I do that without demanding or dissing.

 

When I was dating I was pretty good at seeing the signs of someone controlling. One way was to watch how he interacted with waitstaff and others (other than me, that is).

[tiredofvampires]

I think I was not clear in one of my posts, because I was using the word "you" in an ambiguous way.

 

What I meant to say is that it takes some time for a controlling or domineering person to start making demands upon a partner or dissing them for their "quirks" or habits or personal choices. It won't show up on the first date, or the second. And like the OP, it might start as criticism that is sweetly framed, but it's criticism nonetheless (not that I don't think we should remove constructive criticism and input/influence from a relationship, as Lionel says). I'm just saying that it degrades slowly from there into a partner who is demanding you be what they want you to be and dissing you if you aren't.

 

I wasn't saying that YOU do things in a dissing or demanding way.