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needing advice...please


travo20
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Okay heres the situation..i met this girl on the internet and had been talkin or chatting i should say for a while..she had a boyfriend that treated her like dirt, and she had the ideas that all guys are jerks..so i was just kinda being there for her when she needed someone to talk to..well one night i was in the town she is from which is about an hour from where i live, and she had given me her phone number, so i called her up to see what she was doing.

 

So we met up, and she is gorgeous..im so attracted to her ( i was like must hold drool in mouth) haha..but anyways i asked her if she wanted to go get something to drink..and we were talkin fine. Then she mentioned there was a lake close by and we could go there to talk for a while..well it was kinda cold, so we kinda cuddled a little bit, as we talked..i mean i know it dont sound like much but it was a nice time.

 

Then the next week we had been talkin on the phone and decided id come back up there one night..well i took her out to eat (paid for it of course) and opened the door for her, she acted like no guy had ever done any of that for her...but then we went back out to the lake..i took some blankets and we just layed out there and looked at the stars, then i gave her a massage..i mean it was a great night..it just felt good.

 

well the next week, she emailed me sayin she had broken up with her boyfriend..and so i was there for her cause she needed someone to talk to...so i tried to help cheer her up and how i thought any guy would be lucky to be with her..well a few days later i wanted to show her i cared so i had 4 pink roses with a teddy bear sent to her dorm at school..she thanked me several times and said i was sweet..well sense then i hadnt been able to see her for like 4 weeks, somethin always came up where she said i couldnt come see her..then she mentioned that i scare her because i am nice, but that she likes me..so i didnt know how to take that..and yesterday i got to see her for like 2 hours..so she insisted on driving..so i paid for her dinner..but while we were driving she held my hand..which made me think she likes me..and she said she'd call me later and we might meet back up..well she never called back..and today said her phone was dead..but then she emailed me saying she didnt know how she felt about me..

 

i just dont really know what to do now..so if anyone could help..id appreciate it..( and sorry the story was so long)

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she seems confused...and doesn't really know which way to turn, she does like you and she made that clear, other wise she wouldn't say so.. so your in good shape still, but the contact is what it seems like your stressing, say she will call than she doesn't...well i sort of had the same problem, and what i guess you have to learn is if your treat a girl like she is everything, and give her everything she wants, i.e. being nice... the roses and the bear, even thow it was thoughtful, and she appreciated it..it really doesn't go too far.

 

What i mean is some girls don't like all that attention from the nice guys such as yourself, and me too. and it really does suck, i also noticed she said she was "scared" of getting into a relationship with you, That isn't rejection, she is being honest, because she hasn't had someone like yourself do things for her, like a man should. what i think you should do is lay low for a while, don't call and throw yourself out, it will make her think about "oh maybe he forgot about me" and she will call, especially if she is interested in doing something again. but be cautious, i don't want to see you get hurt over this feeling towards her, because it might make her feel uncomfortable considering she just ended a relationship with another guy, she might not want to start anything back up right away, plus it sounds like those 2 are still trying to work things out, and have been for a while. so i say give her some space...just be cool, calm, and collective about what you say, don't throw yourself out. that isn't healthy.

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so i was just kinda being there for her when she needed someone to talk to..

 

She was not interested in you in this point. She would not have brought up anything about her jerk boyfriend if she liked you at that moment.

 

But then maybe she did not know you enough to feel attracted to you.

 

well one night i was in the town she is from which is about an hour from where i live, and she had given me her phone number, so i called her up to see what she was doing.

 

Hmmmm, well, hmmmm..... Something is missing in your story.. Did she give it to you or did you ask for it?

 

So we met up, and she is gorgeous..im so attracted to her ( i was like must hold drool in mouth) haha..but anyways i asked her if she wanted to go get something to drink..and we were talkin fine. Then she mentioned there was a lake close by and we could go there to talk for a while..well it was kinda cold, so we kinda cuddled a little bit, as we talked..i mean i know it dont sound like much but it was a nice time.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm, interesting.......... You sound like you have some confidence! One of the first few post I have found here with someone who displayed confidence!

 

Then the next week we had been talkin on the phone and decided id come back up there one night..well i took her out to eat (paid for it of course) and opened the door for her, she acted like no guy had ever done any of that for her...but then we went back out to the lake..i took some blankets and we just layed out there and looked at the stars, then i gave her a massage..i mean it was a great night..it just felt good.

 

That was smooth... You are confident, and not afraid to touch her!

 

well the next week, she emailed me sayin she had broken up with her boyfriend..and so i was there for her cause she needed someone to talk to....

 

NO! NO! NO!, You are not there to talk with her about her problem! If you want to keep her never let yourself into that position. Always change the subject or something. Girls talking about other guys is a sign of low interest; again her interest in you is still rather low...

 

so i tried to help cheer her up and how i thought any guy would be lucky to be with her......

 

STOP NOW! YOU ARE LOSING YOUR EDGE!!!... You are screwing up your chances!!! Never put the girl on the pedestool !!! You are the prize to be won! She is with you you arn't with her!!! Saying things like that will cause a girl to lose interest in you fast!!! You are telling her that she is better than you!!!

 

well a few days later i wanted to show her i cared so i had 4 pink roses with a teddy bear sent to her dorm at school..she thanked me several times and said i was sweet........

 

You were doing so good until you started putting her on the pedestool!

Saying that you are sweet does not mean that she will ever be attracted to you she was meerly thanking you....

 

well sense then i hadnt been able to see her for like 4 weeks, somethin always came up where she said i couldnt come see her.........

 

Probably a good thing...... Atleast you wern't spending TO MUCH time with her....... Big no no by the way.....

 

EDIT: Girls interested in a guy will never make excuses to not be around them.

 

then she mentioned that i scare her because i am nice, but that she likes me...........

 

She doesn't trust you because she is use to being treated like crap and doesn't know what to make of you. This does not mean she is attracted to you.....

 

Like = Toleration of your presense

 

so i didnt know how to take that.............

 

It means nothing... Never get phased from things like that, always remain calm...

 

and yesterday i got to see her for like 2 hours..so she insisted on driving..so i paid for her dinner..but while we were driving she held my hand..which made me think she likes me..and she said she'd call me later and we might meet back up..well she never called back..and today said her phone was dead..but then she emailed me saying she didnt know how she felt about me...

 

Signs of low interest...... Holding hands means nothing.... Not calling back means and meeting up means she is not interested in you. Saying phone was dead was her justification for not calling you. Not knowing how she feels about you means she is not interested in you.

 

A GIRL WILL ALWAYS KNOW WITH 100% POSITIVITY THAT THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO YOU. UNSURITY MEANS LITTLE OR NO INTEREST.

 

i just dont really know what to do now..so if anyone could help..id appreciate it..( and sorry the story was so long)

 

I have to say that you made an honest effort on this one, dude. You acted confident, and you wern't afraid of her and she sensed that. And you were a gentlemen I give you kudos on that one!

 

You made a couple of mistakes though that I would like to point out

 

1. You allowed her to dump her emotions all over you with her boyfriend.

If you want this girl to be yours try your best to avoid hearing about him and do not answer or give advice ever! Always change the subject!

 

2. You are hitting on the wrong type of girl. She sounds to me like a taker type personality who is use to being treated like crap meaning that she will be suspecious of a nice guys intentions. Find a girl that would be more responsive to a nice guys personality. Yes! They do exist and they are the healthier ones emotionally....

 

Edit: try approaching girls that already show signs of interest.

 

3. You put her on the pedestole. Remember that YOU ARE THE PRIZE not her! You came off like she was the special one putting all of the control in her hands and the "ABILITY TO REJECT YOU" you gave to her!!! Never do that ever.....

 

4. There are some things that you didn't do that would have made her more interested in you if in fact you wanted this girl. I personally think you should find another girl besides her, but you should have teased her about things jokingly. Heck, tell her she has cuties or something that works for me and I am in college. Don't run her through the mill though. I have made that mistake and that could backfire. Be strategic about it.

 

5. ALWAYS give off the image that you are the best person that this world has to offer. If you believe that she will believe that and so will others...

 

In summary I would like to note that her interest in you right now is rather nil. She will probably get back with her old jerk of a boyfriend or find another guy similar to him. I would let her go personally and don't go chasing after her!!!

 

Go out and find a nice girl who appreciates you for who you are. It's true that you can become an abusive jerk to win this woman, but is that really worth sacrificing being a man? Hardly! You'll win out in the long run!

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I appreciate all the advice and suggestions...

 

I agree that i prolly shouldnt have put her on a pedastool, but she's a great girl and very attractive..she kept saying she wasnt a sweet person, but i saw her differently. And the whole being there for her when she told me she broke up with her boyfriend was just away that i thought id show i cared about her and was interested in her. But she never really asked me for advice or anything like that, just basically needed a sholder to lean on. Oh and she was the one that gave me her number..i never asked for it, she just wanted to talk to me in person one night.

 

And believe it or not, i really dont have much self confidence, but i just feel comfortable around her..and maybe its the whole idea of her being the gorgeous blonde hair blue eyes girl that i think id be lucky to be with..but yea she has said some things to really confuse me and that have been upsetting..for instance, she called me one night sayin she wanted to see me, so we made plans for me to come see her the next day. she told me to call her at about noon and she'd tell me when a good time for me to come up there would be..so i tried to get ahold of her at that time and couldnt..i tried like 4 times to call her within 2 hours which i didnt think was too bad..well then later on i checked my email..and she had wrote me sayin she couldnt see me that day cause her friends wanted to do something..well i wrote her back saying i understood and was wanting to see her, but maybe some other time..well she wrote me back and said sorry i have a freakin life..which kinda made me mad cause its not that i dont have a life but when she told me she wanted to see me i told my friends i already had plans with her..

 

But yea i just dont understand cause she also emailed me sayin how she had such a good time with me those nights we did hang out and that she liked me as in boyfriend material..and she calls me nearly every night. Plus on those nights that we would make plans to see each other and shed come up with some excuse for me to not see her she would text message my phone asking what i was doing.

 

And she just called me tonight and was talkin about how she was at a football game the other night and some guy asked to sit by her and kept grabbing her but..so im just like umm okay..i dont want to hear stuff like that..i mean maybe im too nice to her, but thats just how i am..i try to treat girls right. I mean i dont know why i like her so much, cause shes not the typical girl i see as being girlfriend material..its just i keep thinkin about those nights we spent together and how nice they were..i do want to see her again soon, and she knows that, but once again theres always something she says she has to do..so i dont know what to do about that either..

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Hmmm, I hate to burst your bubble, but in the light of what you just wrote it sounds like she is playing games with you. Dude, I seriously doubt you will ever get to first base, second, third, or home with this girl 'cause you are barely at bat with her and it's only 'cause she picked you out of the team to throw curve ball out.

 

She is completely and utterly DOMINATING YOU and any efforts you think you are making.

 

You NEED TO TAKE CHARGE OF THE SITUATION. She tells you when to call, what to do, when to do it, and she messes with your head. It's all a game of control and you are losing out, bigtime.

 

The honest truth is that you have screwed up big time with this girl.

 

You might try to post trying to justify what she did to you saying you did your best, blah blah, but you are so clueless...

 

link removed

 

click on the above link ...... You really need it, seriously !

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So im being dominated by her? I mean that one time she told me to call her and she didnt answer cause "she has a freakin life" as she said, is the only time that she has told me when to call her. She is the one that calls me or text messages me, like last night for instance i got onto msn and we started chatting a little bit, and she said im just gonna call you is that okay..so she called me.

 

I just dont know what to do or think of when she starts telling me about guys hitting on her or how she will say she was at a club and guys were talkin to her...i mean is she tryin to make me jealous? cause i sure dont like hearing it. I know she's very attractive so thats gonna happen but still.

 

I do agree that she seems to be playing games, and thats not cool at all. I mean im just so confused cause she told me she likes me as in "boyfriend material" was her exact words, and she mentioned that if she hung out with me more, she would get attached. I mean im not even sure she is girlfriend material for me, im just kinda feeling like id like to spend time with her in person to get to know her better and just take it from there and see what happens, but like i said everytime we plan on meeting up she will change plans at the last minute. I mean of course i get my hopes up cause i think im gonna get to see her, then it doesnt happen, which is a let down.

 

She has even mentioned before when we were supposed to meet up that her plans didnt go through and that she wished i was up there stayin all night with her in her dorm...but it would be like one in the mornin when shed call and tell me this so its too late to do anything...that might be more of the game playing i dont know..

 

and another question...what are some good things to talk about on the phone or on the computer to women? I mean i always ask how her day has been and how she is doing stuff like that, but when she calls me about every night..i run out of things to talk about with her.

 

but i really appreciate all the help ya'll have given me

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So im being dominated by her?

 

*nods*

 

You are not acting out the proper male role required for her to feel an attraction to you.

 

For example SHE should be the one doing the things you like to do; not her getting the ideas on what to do and vice-versa..

 

I could be wrong if I misunderstood you somehow, since you are writting it, but that is what I see..

 

I mean that one time she told me to call her and she didnt answer cause "she has a freakin life" as she said, is the only time that she has told me when to call her. She is the one that calls me or text messages me, like last night for instance i got onto msn and we started chatting a little bit, and she said im just gonna call you is that okay..so she called me.

 

That doesn't mean she is attracted to you at all.

 

I just dont know what to do or think of when she starts telling me about guys hitting on her or how she will say she was at a club and guys were talkin to her...i mean is she tryin to make me jealous? cause i sure dont like hearing it. I know she's very attractive so thats gonna happen but still.

 

Well, she isn't really attracted to you. She sees you as a nice guy she can come to for emotional support, but you sure arn't going to be getting laid any time soon. Atleast not by her...

 

I do agree that she seems to be playing games, and thats not cool at all.

 

Then don't put up with it... Lose her, seriously.. She is obviously immature...

 

I mean im just so confused cause she told me she likes me as in "boyfriend material" was her exact words, and she mentioned that if she hung out with me more, she would get attached.

 

Lol, do you really buy that? Don't go by what girls say go by their actions.

 

By the way you don't want to be hanging around with her every waking second.

 

I mean im not even sure she is girlfriend material for me, im just kinda feeling like id like to spend time with her in person to get to know her better and just take it from there and see what happens, but like i said everytime we plan on meeting up she will change plans at the last minute. I mean of course i get my hopes up cause i think im gonna get to see her, then it doesnt happen, which is a let down.

 

Yeah, she's doing that intentionally because she isn't really interested in you. She just is playing with you.

 

She has even mentioned before when we were supposed to meet up that her plans didnt go through and that she wished i was up there stayin all night with her in her dorm..

 

That's just cruel.....

 

but it would be like one in the mornin when shed call and tell me this so its too late to do anything...that might be more of the game playing i dont know

 

So is that....

 

and another question...what are some good things to talk about on the phone or on the computer to women?

 

You don't have to say anything. Healthy girls will talk about all sorts of nonsense and all you will have to do is agree, disagree, comment, or nod occasionally..

 

Other than that just be sure to have a personality.. You know like a sense of humour, smart, witty, interesting... That sort of thing.....

 

I mean i always ask how her day has been and how she is doing stuff like that, but when she calls me about every night..i run out of things to talk about with her.

 

Don't talk with her every night and end the conversation before you run out of things to say!!!! Always end the conversation first!!!

 

but i really appreciate all the help ya'll have given me

 

You're welcome, but I think you should forget about this girl and start seeking out others. Ones that appreciate you and are actually interested in you.

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I hate to say it, but you're being played, big time. Look at this from an outsider's view - she makes plans with you, then ditches them when something with her friends comes up, and acts as if you're at fault for expecting her to follow through. Regardless of what her words say - she's basically keeping you there because she's figured out even if she does something like that, you'll find a way to accept her actions and continue to accept whatever she's willing to give you. She's doing just enough to ensure you'll stay interested, and leave all her own options open, from the sounds of it. No matter how nice she is to talk to, or how pretty, you deserve more than being kept on a string while she figures out what she wants. You want to find out if she could be interested? Stop being so available for her. She suggests meeting up? Tell her you don't know, it depends what comes up before that time, you'll have to get back to her on it. The last thing that will give her any incentive to think you're not going to be a doormat is being able to have you subject to her whims. She needs to have the idea she has to make an EFFORT to get some of your time, not to have you there at HER convenience.

 

Personally, I don't think people who need this much "playing the game" are worth pursuing... but if you want to get anywhere with her, realize now the chivalrous and nice rules are out, and the sometimes crude and arrogant is in. She seems used to dealing with "players," and all bets on being nice are off. Where you see you're being considerate, she sees OWNED.

 

She says something about a guy grabbing her butt? You've got options, but none are being sympathetic or "yeah, guys like that just tick me off." She can get that from her girlfriends. What she's probably USED to is more like "Well babe, what you expect when you shake that fine thing around?" or "If I'm gonna hear about butt grabbing, I'd better be the one grabbing it hehe!" You get the idea.

 

There are plenty of girls who appreciate nice guys, but she sounds like she likes the games, so use your judgement. If you're not the type to enjoy playing, someone who lives by those rules will bring nothing but grief.

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Thanks so much, ya'll have a lot of good points..i definitely dont want to play any games, and have her thinking she is controlling me. I just cant make myself not be nice to her. I know she may not truly like me or nothing might never happen, but id even just like to hang out with her more and just see what happens. And i do want to see her, but i know i shouldnt tell her that all the time..so is playing the hard to get role a good way to get her wanting to see me or hang out with me? Or will she just not care and forget about me all together?

 

I basically dont know how to put it...i realize she isnt really girlfriend material or someone that would treat me right in the long run, but i am attracted to her so i kinda just want to see what happens..so should i talk to her every night if she calls? If she's on msn messenger, should i write her? And i see what you mean by how she should have to put some effort into it if she wants to see me, so what will help make her do that?

 

i hope some of that made sense

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Thanks so much, ya'll have a lot of good points..i definitely dont want to play any games, and have her thinking she is controlling me.

 

She isn't worth your time.. She is trash and below your standards..

 

 

I just cant make myself not be nice to her.

 

Just don't do everything she says. If she tells you to do something then just ignore her and continue to do what you were doing. That is if she is trying to use you as a doormat of course, and she probably is.....

 

I know she may not truly like me or nothing might never happen, but id even just like to hang out with her more and just see what happens.

 

Avoid negitive influences in your life. She is a negitive influence.

 

And i do want to see her, but i know i shouldnt tell her that all the time..so is playing the hard to get role a good way to get her wanting to see me or hang out with me?

 

Do you even know what playing hard to get is?

 

Playing hard to get IS NOT something you think about or analyze it just happens.....

 

Basically if you have a life you are already playing hard to get...

Do you have a job? Do you have friends? Do you have homework?

 

Well, those are things that compete for your time right? Well, girls can compete with you against those things.....

 

Or will she just not care and forget about me all together?

 

Yeah, that is a always a great possibility...

 

I basically dont know how to put it...i realize she isnt really girlfriend material or someone that would treat me right in the long run, but i am attracted to her so i kinda just want to see what happens..

 

You are attracted to looks; she is a horrible person don't bother with her anymore...

 

so should i talk to her every night if she calls?

 

Talk for 2 minutes then tell her you have something to attend to like homework or something...

 

If she's on msn messenger, should i write her?

 

Get a new screen name and don't tell her what it is.....

 

And i see what you mean by how she should have to put some effort into it if she wants to see me, so what will help make her do that?

 

By being a challenge.. Make her compete for your attention...

 

If she is not interested in you she will not bother to compete for you...

 

If she doesn't compete for you then do not bother with her...

 

i hope some of that made sense

 

I keep telling you that you should lose this girl, but I think you would feel happier if you had some other girls as options.

Strive to be the attractor and not the attractee.....

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Thanks so much, ya'll have a lot of good points..i definitely dont want to play any games, and have her thinking she is controlling me. I just cant make myself not be nice to her. I know she may not truly like me or nothing might never happen, but id even just like to hang out with her more and just see what happens. And i do want to see her, but i know i shouldnt tell her that all the time..so is playing the hard to get role a good way to get her wanting to see me or hang out with me? Or will she just not care and forget about me all together?

 

You don't want her hanging out with you at all if you're nothing more than the last defense against being bored and sitting home, do you? You're better than being someone's fallback plan or puppet on a string. So you have NOTHING to lose by expecting a little effort here. If she's interested in keeping your company - she'll make a bit of an effort to show it, it's that simple. There's plenty of other pretty girls out there; next time you're tempted to be "nice" to the point of always answering to her convenience picture a spaniel puppy panting at her feet - because that's what she's gonna see if you don't show you put some things before her. You can still be NICE, just don't be always AVAILABLE to be nice!

 

I basically dont know how to put it...i realize she isnt really girlfriend material or someone that would treat me right in the long run, but i am attracted to her so i kinda just want to see what happens..so should i talk to her every night if she calls? If she's on msn messenger, should i write her? And i see what you mean by how she should have to put some effort into it if she wants to see me, so what will help make her do that?

 

If she calls - at least half of the time, you're busy. No, I don't care if you were setting up dominoes in a pattern because you were bored, or the most exciting plan you had was giving your dog a flea bath - you are BUSY. "Sorry, can you call me back in an hour or two? I'm really tied up now, sorry, catch you later!" Note - you're telling her she can call YOU back here - breaking the normal rules, right? Not polite normally, right? But in this case, you don't want to sound like you're rushing through what you're "busy" with and dying to speak to her - she needs the impression of "glad you called, bad time though - hey, feel free to try again!" Don't get too specific on what you've got to do either - a little wondering never hurt anyone, since she's not your gf, let her wonder what else you're doing with your time. And if this goes against your "nice guy" instincts - you can mix it up a little and be the one to call her back SOMETIMES. But don't make a habit of it.

 

MSN - this is the first point I'd differ with Hero_99 (we same to have much the same views on this girl), I'd treat the SAME as the phone at least. Answer her, but don't pursue her, and half the time she messages - you're sorry, but you're in a chat/writing a paper/playing an online game/talking to a cool chick from your math class... you get the idea. Want to keep her off balance? Once a week TOPS message her, and sound very happy and outgoing "HEY!! Good to see ya, I've been busy, so, how's things there? Catch me up!" And at least the majority of the time - make sure YOU are the one to "have to go," both on the phone and MSN, and leave with a bang, a little flirty comment to keep her thinking. "Hey, sorry to cut ya short, but my friend's gonna be here any minute, gimme a cute smile and think of me -I'll be thinking of ya, ciao babe!" Think about it - a sentence like that can say a bunch of things at once, 1) your time isn't her exclusive property, 2) you DO have other friends you can spend that time with, 3) you think she's attractive, 4) you're leaving on a "I'm a fun guy" note, and 4) she WILL end up thinking of you.

 

You're not ignoring her completely, you're not blowing her off, you're simply making it clear the sun does NOT rise and set by her wishes, you have this thing called a life as well, and if she wants a part in it, she has to MAKE her place, not have the red carpet rolled out for her if she breathes a word.

 

Yeah, some girls simply appreciate a guy making time for them, though it's never good to be so available you end up taken for granted, but some really will NOT get that you're not a sad eyed puppy unless you make the POINT of having a life beyond her - and she seems like one of them.

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MSN - this is the first point I'd differ with Hero_99 (we same to have much the same views on this girl), I'd treat the SAME as the phone at least.

 

Well, I didn't say he couldn't sign into the one she knows about. I ment to infer that if he stays on-line alot he will need to have some variety to make it look like he isn't sitting in front of his computer 24/7. Maybe only sign into the one she knows about every so often like every other day or something, but sporatic enough so there doesn't appear to be a trend.

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Ok, then basically we still are on the same page And just had different ideas to go about giving the same impression.

 

(This is pretty amusing, cause if I'm remembering right from your posts, you're a guy, I'm a girl, and we're seeing this pretty much identically!)

 

Uhhh? You're a girl? I thought you were a guy?

 

Lol, that is funny...

 

Well, I am a self proclaimed nice guy and have had similar experiences to trevo20 with girls when I was younger.

 

I began as a really nice guy like trevo here... I actually avoided girls for years because they treated me like crap for so long... I just wasn't interested...

 

Then I turned into a jerk for a while, it wasn't until I got into college that I learned that girls wern't all that bad afterall. I realized most of them by that time actually appreciate nice guys and prefer them over jerks.

 

But I was also run through the mill with bad experiences; confused and not knowing what to do...

 

I didn't trust girls and refused to date them, although by that time I was actually beginning to attract them.

 

Then I realized where I was going wrong and found that it was a mixture between the two...

 

Now I am ASSERTIVE...

 

heh, took me that long to realize being assertive really ment.....

 

Now I don't worry about girls 'cause they compete FOR MY attention.

 

Some day I think trevo here will be in my shoes... I just hope he doesn't make the same mistakes and learns from trial and error like I did....

 

But then there is always help like on this board.....

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I just wanted to say i really appreciate all of your advice..it has definitely made me look at this situation differently. This girl had me so confused, so im gonna try a lot of yalls advice..and let her make a lot of effort cause so far it had been all me, it does seem like she likes me, but i'll soon find out by whether or not she puts any effort out. I mean i do agree that most of this is physical attraction and there are a lot of hott girls out there, but none of them are worth being walked all over. so once again i appreciate the advice and i can always use it...seems like ive got a lot to learn

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