He's suicidal, I'm getting there as well. I fell helpless...

[Lidia]

Hello everyone,

It's my first post, I so much need your guidance. I'll try to give you a short view on the situation I'm dealing with. I don't know what to do anymore. Please advise…

 

A man I love is seriously depressed, he feels suicidal. He doesn't keep any contact with real people, he lives within his PC. I think he spends most of his time playing with his smart mobile phone. I think he lost hope. He has cut me off completely, doesn't want to meet or talk. I keep trying to support him, keep asking to get help (don't even know if he reads my emails). I have found therapists who might help him but he constantly rejects any kind of help. I feel hopeless, I care for him so much, he made me happy like no one else but it took me too long to fully understand that. We've been together for nearly two years (long-distance relationship for a year, together since the end of December). We had many problems due to his cheating, distrust, then lack of communication. I've been through emotional hell, on occasions I felt suicidal (once I attempted it and took pills but nothing happened cause I didn't know how to do it properly). I just couldn't deal with his betrayal. We tried again and again, but we couldn't make it work. It was difficult, because it took me about 6 months to forgive him and be able to trust him again. At that time I used to overreact a lot, and react in a self-defensive, very destructive way. I know how much I hurt him, but even today looking back I realise that if I had to go through that again, it would not probably come much easier. Betrayal just hurts so much… At the end he said he wouldn't forgive me for what I've done…

Today, I don't look in the past and I don't feel resentment anymore. I forgave him, and I truly believe that only through forgiving people I can develop as a person, learn from experiences (especially the bad ones) and close the chapters I want to close to move on and live in the now and have a hope for a better future. I have started a therapy, which helps me see things in a different light and I keep working on myself. Sometimes I feel ok, but most of the time I just feel I have no motivation and can't even go to work. My life is falling into pieces slowly. I feel incredible loss, I still have my hope that he will understand that we still have a chance for happiness and will let me be a part of his life again. But so far - after all this pain – he left, cut me off. I worry for him, every coming day is just hell, I don't even know if he's still alive. I feel like the most important part of me is dying, and I know if he does kill himself I'll do the same thing. He still doesn't fully understand what happened between us and keeps thinking I am the one to be blamed for all the failures. And that blame he's put on me attempts to kill me as well.

I just would like him to get help, so after some time he can try to find love and have relationship with someone else, if I can't be the one. He's a wonderful man, he has so much to give. I love him like I've never loved anyone before and his happiness is the only thing that matters to me.

 

I don't know what to do anymore. Is it possible to help someone who does not accept help?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

Best regards

[Gilgamesh]

There is something I dont get, he is the one that cheated and yet he cant forgive you? am I missing something here?

 

whats really bothering him is how he messed up everything, he is the one that blew it and he is living with that guilt, thats the real depression.

 

He had your trust, your love and he cheated on you, you almost killed yourself over this, and even though you tell him you have forgave him, he wont accept that because he hasnt forgiven himself.

 

He keeps his mind active (like I do) in order not to face his thought and pain of what happened.

 

Im not sure if there is something else you did (to get even) but 2 wrongs dont make a right.

 

he is the only one that can help himself, he has to want to get help. he wants so bad that innocense that he had before he cheated, he knows that will never return. yes he did mess up big time, and he deserves to lose you. he knows this, he tries to shift blame to help him cope, but thats not the way to go about it either. he is living in conflict within himself.

 

You are not responsable for what happened or what is happening, he brought this upon himself. you werent responsable for him cheating, and the pain you felt afterwords was justified. you have a big heart, and the bigger they are the more they trust, and like me, can suffer greatly when they get broken.

 

Its his own forgiveness that he needs, it may never come. he knows you will never look at him the way you did before he cheated. thats what he will never be able to forgive himself for.

[Lidia]

Thank you for your response. In answer to your questions, I can only say that I did feel the way you described, especially that we've met when he was divorcing his ex wife who had left him. I have fallen in love deeply, I spent one year visiting him in his country or waiting for him to come to see me. A few months after we met, he was seriously depressed due to divorce and we lost contact for a while. He went skiing with a friend and he met a psychologist who kind of counselled him. Kind of, as she has fallen in love with him as well and wanted him to be (than marry) with her. He didn't say anything about the progress of that relationship, all I knew was she was a good friend. Things were not quite allright, he started to "disappear" for the weekends, and kept telling me he was seeing his friends in his home country – saying goodbye before he leaves and moves to mine. I felt something was wrong, but I only found it out after he came over. We were supposed to live together, we actually did – for a month – cause soon I had my first breakdown. First, he started behaving strangely, very secretively; I felt he was hiding something so I started asking uncomfortable questions. Initially he denied, after a month he kind of told me what was going on. I was so shocked that I couldn't believe I might have been so cheated. I just couldn't believe it, I though she was a friend and someone counselling him. I lost my nerves, lost my balance, checked his email – wanted to know if he was promising her the same things, if he was in touch with her. I have found a hotel reservation in skiing resort – for both of them. He told me he was leaving for two weeks to visit his friend he was doing some business with. You can imagine how nice experience that was.

 

When he came back the "let's try again" cycle started. In the meantime he went to see her again. He thought I was stupid and I wouldn't know...

We tried to communicate, explain things. He said she help him so much that he wouldn't tell her the truth, that he wouldn't hurt her, so I felt unimportant, like everything happened at my cost. Today I know he never understood what I've been through and probably he never will even though I spent hours explaining my emotions. I just had an "excuse" for my childish behaviour, he had to deal with real problems... He wanted me to live in the "now".

 

I know that might sound weird but I just loved (and love) the guy, even though my (or even his) friends kept telling me I deserved much more from a man.

But I forgave him, although it took me a long time to understand that maybe that woman really was someone who saved his life and maybe without her I wouldn't have a chance for that love. I felt guilty for kind of what "I did to her" as well, although I wasn't responsible for making that threesome. At the end of April I asked him to make his choices and finish the other relationship definitely – I doubt he would do it otherwise, and I couldn't bear the responsibility of knowing that another woman might be waiting for him. I've been there, when he was grieving for his ex-wife and I know how it's like. So maybe I pushed him to wrong choices and he regrets that.

 

So, we kept trying, but I was never good enough, never smart enough for him to communicate with me, no matter what I did I just couldn't make him happy. Things were becoming even more difficult, and we hurt each other. He was trying, but when he was ready to give I wasn't ready to accept what he tried to give me. I felt frustrated, lonely and unhappy. I also started to see how much his drinking was taking away all the chances for open communication. He didn't admit that too.

 

The worst thing is that we really loved each other, but we couldn't manage to make our relationship work. And I feel guilty that I there were opportunities that we lost, even though at that time I couldn't react in a different way, I wasn't ready to take them. I feel guilty for not being able to make this man happy, I wasn't able to make him feel secure with me, trust me, communicate.

 

He said I should have told him I couldn't forgive him – but it's not that easy to work out when you really forgive, when you love someone as much as I loved him. I feel incredible guilt for not being able to react in a more mature way, controlling my emotions – in particular the anger I felt.

So maybe he blames me for his wrong choices, I don't understand anymore, I feel lost, I keep blaming myself.

I just tend to blame myself for everything even though be both made mistakes and you're right to large degree.

Reading your answer and writing these posts make me see all these things in a different light, I'll think about what had happened again.

 

So, that was my side of the story - in a brief. Maybe some day I'll write a book…

Thanks for being with me.

L

[Mar]

Gilgamesh is absolutely right. What is he forgiving you for? Why do you feel the need to apologize? No relationship is perfect-yes, you have said and done things that may have been wrong in response to the things he's done to YOU.

 

Let me ask you something: have you heard of the term "codependent"? That's this man, I think. For all that he's cut himself off from everyone, even from you, it would seem, he's still keeping you chained to his side by your fear that he'll do something rash if you leave him, and using your love for him against you. What kind of man is that? You've offered every possible form of help to him and he's rejected it all. My thought is that he's enjoying his misery and the attention you're pouring on him and doesn't want the help because he has his own emotional slave right there. NOT to say he doesn't love you....but he's not taking your feelings on this and what he's doing to you into consideration whatsoever, only using you.

 

I wish I could make this clearer, but I truly can't. Bottom line: you're letting him do this to you. And I think that, as long as you stay there and be this crutch for him, he's going to continue what he's doing, it's not going to improve. Only when you finally step away and leave will it be up to him to stand on his own two feet if he chooses to. And if he chooses NOT to, there's not a thing anyone, you or anyone else, can do to help him. HE HAS TO WANT HELP FOR HIMSELF.

 

At this point, you're in a very unhealthy, destructive relationship for both of you. As painful as it seems, I would break the ties. You can't help this man, and, from the sound of it, despite whatever issues he has, he's very clearly turned the tables on you somehow and gotten you to feel guilty for his indescretions. How is that possible? He's keeping you there, locked to him, by fear and by the love he knows you have for him. That's not love on his part, if he can lay guilt at your feet when HE should be apologizing, and, more to the point, seeing how his behavior is affecting you overall. He's selfish.

 

Get out of this relationship for YOUR happiness. I'm worried that the longer you stay, the less you'll be able to objectively see what's going on, and how you're being treated. This is a grown man....you're NOT responsible for his actions or how he deals with things. At this point, you obviously see that something's wrong, or you wouldn't have come here, and I'm very glad you did. Maybe this will help you put things into perspective a little better and see that you're not to blame, and just what's being done to you. But don't let him take you down the same path he's on, you're stronger than that! Good luck, and please come back if you need to talk, we're always here for you.

 

Mar

[Lidia]

Mar,

While reading your post I cried again, it seems like for some reasons I couldn't admit these things and say them loud by myself. I know too well what co-dependency means. I have an alcoholic father and I'm during a therapy for people "classified" as adult children of alcoholics. I've been reading a lot, also met a term of "symbiotic personality". I do know what you mean.

 

I seem to understand my tendencies and fears – ironically - this man initiated my healing process, mainly because I've just never been put through situations leading me to such insecurity. But my two previous relationships were happy and I didn't even have one argument, we remain friends, I had no problems with insecurity earlier…

 

I thought that when someone you love leaves you, because they couldn't forgive your infidelity and cheating (like his ex wife) you should learn from that experience and wouldn't do such a thing again. I knew how much he wanted to make a home, have children – and I wanted the same thing, I believed he learnt from his experience. After a while I understood that he never managed to get why she left, he spent months trying to rationalise that…

 

You are probably right - I couldn't and cannot see objectively all the aspects of being involved in this relationship. So many times I've learnt he's much stronger person then I am. Maybe I'm blind, maybe he's really trying to manipulate me – he tried before, mainly through his control and jealousy. Everyone who I have honestly spoken about it gave me a similar advice to yours – get out as soon as you can, close the door and if he sleeps on your doormat just move to a different place. He is the only person thinking that I screw it up, while my friends who I talk to keep asking me when I will give up on someone who's just using me and dragging into depression, wasting my time (I'll be 28 in April, some of my friends suggest it's time to find someone normal and start heading towards the normal things you do in life – marriage, kids, etc, although I think I'm too young and I'm sure I'm not ready yet to do this).

 

I know I care for this man too much. If I didn't try, we wouldn't ever be where we are and I think that is the problem. I somehow cannot set up the boundaries of my "responsibility" for him, and his life. I still feel responsible for the way he feels and I know if he ever uses the rope that he bought. I think I should finally understand that the choices he makes are not within my control and whatever happens I did what I could. Last night I went to his place to give him a list of therapists, to ask him to get help only to end up waiting for half an hour in cold, ringing to let me in - unsuccessfully. I know it's becoming too humiliating.

 

I think the problem is that he doesn't take responsibility for his actions ach choices. He doesn't communicate, doesn't know what real intimacy is yet. He's been with his ex wife for 8 years, he always used to drink a lot so there's just not been a chance for a real intimacy, I do know what I'm saying. How can you plan family living like that... That must have been all a lie he lived for a long time. So I think it's very probable that I just made him look in a mirror and admit that what he sees is not that "rosy" as he believed he was. Maybe I also wasn't a "therapist" trying to keep him in a good mood telling him how great everything is, when it wasn't. I think the person who's been "counselling" him did more damage then the good, pushing him away from the causes (roots) of his problems, only teaching him how to deal with symptoms. Isn't is because the "blindness" of love ? Huh…

 

So, all I can see today are two quite hurt and a bit dysfunctional people who might use their difficulties to work on personal growth, to overcome fears, support each other while working on themselves, to then become capable of creating a truly intimate relationship.

 

Not the "normal" people only deserve to be loved.

 

The truth of your words is, that I cannot make him see things he cannot see and I cannot push someone to get help.

Does this mean I've done everything I could do?

 

Thank you for being with me and apologies for language mistakes (English is not my mother tongue)

 

I'll try to be stronger.

L

[Mar]

Hey, don't take it all on at once, I didn't mean to make you CRY! Relax....this isn't something that's going to solve itself in a day, or a week, or even a month. The repercussions of what each of you has gone through, with other people and with each other, is large. There's a lot of sorting out of feelings to be done, priorities to be made, and most of all, (to my mind, anyway) choices on where you want to be 2 or 5 or 10 years from now. And the way it's going, you're NOT heading towards the future you want for yourself right now.

 

You know the problems. Now it's a matter of working on solving them, a step at a time. I suppose what I would do in this situation (and mind you, this is just me, take it or leave it) is sit down with him ONE more time. Tell him exactly how you feel-the wrongs in the relationship, both his and yours, and what you'd like to see done about them. (What those are is up to you and him.) Let him know that this is an unhealthy, unhappy relationship for you and that you're retreating emotionally the more you're around the destructive behavior, and won't tolerate it anymore.

 

At this point, he may get angry and try to turn it around and place it on you again. DON'T LET HIM. Be strong-strength is the biggest trait you're going to need throughout this. Explain that if he can't discuss this rationally and like the adult he is, the conversation is over and that he's exemplifying the exact behavior you want to get away from. If he continues to avoid a calm, rational discussion like an adult, then I would state right there that it's over and that, while you love him, you're not going to put yourself through this anymore because you value yourself more than that, even if he doesn't.

 

YOU know the positive qualities you have, and you've shown them here. You have the ability to admit your wrongs, you can see the problems manifest in the relationship you're having, you know what you want and what you don't want out of this.....so far, you're doing a wonderful job! Don't beat yourself up over this and past mistakes. You can only learn from them, and know what NOT to do and what wrongs to look for in future relationships. If you don't want to date right now, that's fine, you don't have to. But overall, take care of this first.....you see what's wrong with the entire thing, the backlash from previous relationships that's causing problems in this one, and it's a tangled mess. If he's not willing to sort it out like you are, and take responsibility for his part in it, then there's NO need for you to continue to support him. And he also needs to support you as well! Definitely keep this in mind.

 

You're going to have bad days and good ones......but your life is worth so much more than you're getting out of it right now. Don't let that continue. You're too intelligent and caring to waste it on someone who can't or won't appreciate what a gift you're giving them.

 

Mar

[meanlady]

Hi

I read all the posts of your issue , what I can tell you now is that you must leave this very destructive relationship, Mar's first post is absolutely right. Tell you . i was there before and I know how hurt you are feeling now.

 

My ex-BF is maniac depressive. sex additicon, cheatings. I , myself was in a co-dependent relationship with him , the on and off relationship eventally drained me, I ended up seeing the doctor, see the psychologist and "almost" took medication fro becoming depression . The relatioship made me really miserable more than a year but you know where the problem is? I wasn't unable to "LET GO "..what is wronge with me??? I think i am a healthy, happy and active and attractive person but now i know i probably have childhood issue as well.

 

Hey, don't be scared of letting go, at this moment, i am still feeling pain of losing this man I love but deep in my heart I know I am doing the very right thing for my own sanity. All my friends long ago knew i was in this kind of relatioship, they had been really worry about me, wanted me to leave this man and should not contact him anymore. my counsellors said the same thing to me, they knew exactly what was going on and knew this is abusive cycle, if i won't stop now, it will be more difficult of letting go. Now I regreted i did not listen to what my friends and counsellors have told me, I let it go on and off,on and off, it took a great deal of me to let go , that hurts so so much. I was so scared my life will be in dark forever

 

When your boy friend know you are no longer "useful" for his emotional crotch, they usually will move on to find other vicitims to fullfill their co-dependent cycle. before they find other one, they will keep drag you in, until they find one to manipulate , they possibly will dump you.

 

Have you read "Co-dependent no more" by Melody Beattie, the book is so so wonderful, she has another book called "language of letting go" These books can help you.

 

I want to tell you that you have to prepare your own healing process, you are dealing with a guy with depression and co-dependent issue, it is extremely difficult, you will never be albe to change him, the only perosn you can change is yourself. If you love him, let him take responsibility for himself. Let go, let god, if one day he becomes a better person and find he truly loves you, and if things are meant to be, he will be back. If not, please try to rescuse yourself, not him.

 

I was in your story before (for 2 years) and i am still licking my own wounds now, I can tell you these 2 years were full of tension and confusion, fear and pain. I was so unhappy in the relationship and lost myself and my direction, i was so scared of losing him. But, has you asked yourself, you want to be with him based on what reason? Is it out of love or out of your own fear? Fear of feeling unworthy ?Fear of been lonely and abandement?

 

The cheating is the most difficult part for me to overcome, he kept doing it and will blame his cheatings on me.. you will never realise what is in his brain, he can be sweet but also can be very evil, they only way to make yourself in peace is forgive him and let it go.

 

take care, my friend, you are not alone

 

Hugs

 

 

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[Mar]

Ahhh, the book she talks about, "Codependent No More", was SUCH a lifesaver for me........listen to her, she knows of what she speaks........lol

[Lidia]

Thanks again for being with me when I was so low.

 

Just reporting in.

 

Didn't read the book you adviced at the end, couldn't get it here in Poland but I found a good one - Learning to Say No: Establishing Healthy Boundaries by Carla Wills-Brandon. It seems to have helped me.

 

I reckon that I have tried everything I could, I've put many hours \ days \months into saving this relationship while giving it a chance to become a healthy one - starting from long letters explaining who I am, asking him to start therapy, offering therapy for couples - if easier toghether. Talking doesn't work anymore, my level of frustration is too high, I have hot been listened out and respected for too long.

 

Now I'm on the point of giving up.

I can't live in co-dependent relationship any longer. I feel like I have done everything I could. Nothing works, it's even getting worse, I feel like I'm trying to communicate with a wall.

 

I'm doing ok. I look after myself finally. I've been taking antidepressant for nearly two months, when I felt suicidal I went to a doctor to get help. I understood that I have pretty much to give, just need to find myself someone who is interested in that "offer".

 

Thank you guys.

Good luck and take care,

Lidia