Derek

Here is a different thought:

People can become more attractive by having lots of interests.

(hobbies/activities/experience)

and the more experience you get...

(like say parachuting, or horse riding, or skiiing, or roller blading,

or bowling, or reading something new, or martial arts, or taking a night class or going to concerts or mountain biking, wall climbing or whatever)

...the more confident you are, and also the more people(guys) you can

say you have common interests with.

It is attractive to see a person that is growing themselves into a better person. People want to join them...

Ash, I was talking about "The Rules" book for women, I wasn't talking about your comments I was talking generally.

I haven't read all the previous posting history so I cede to your judgement

regarding the original thread.

It is absolutely important to go slow or you can scare people off.

There needs to be some judgement regarding what is receptive

to the other person. Some people won't like an aggressive approach.

My thought process was just about the first few fun light hearted dates,

not about getting married yet.

And if one is wanting a long term relationship, building intimacy slowly is the right approach. People too often jump the gun and both parties pull away because of fear.

going for it quickly does show some confidence and purposefulness

which is attractive for ladies.

Always being a man with a plan is a good thing.

The issue about calling or not calling and when...

Alot of people have "The Rules" about this..

I say screw 'em,

after the "date" before she gets home that same night,

call her answering machine and say you had a great

time and thank her for the good conversation and that's all.

But dont' commit to anything more until another phone

call or whenever you want.

Oh my,

Well, the other hand could be, that if they did a DNA test on you,

you might have a small chance of giving your baby some other

strange anomoly too. Why should he marry you?

Life is weird. Embrace it. Deal with the cards you get.

You gotta ask yourself,

Is she worth the risk of looking the fool to everyone if she rejects me?

There are woman that definitely ARE worth putting your neck out to be chopped off. And so what if you do get rejected? At least you and she

know where you stand and you can go on to other things. It's her loss

if she is too shallow to give you a chance. You are the prize.

Everyone will get rejected during their lifetimes. Even if you get rejected, people respect that you were bold and real with your feelings. The good thing is that if other girls find out, they may want to go out with you because you proved you were gutsy and confident.

You are the prize.

hmm

What else is it that a woman finds so attractive in these guys? I know its not just the "excitement" or the oozingness. Theres something else that was neglected to be said that i wish to know.

I hear ya man. I wonder if it is simply volume. =) The "jerk" puts himself out there 100 times, gets rejected for 60, lukewarm maybies for 30, and accepted for 10 out of 100 times.

The "nice guy" is not thinking about using women for himself, so he doesn't bother with putting himself out there for women he knows he would be merely using if he pursued them.

So a "nice guy" sees 100 women and tries for only the 10, instead of the 100?

I bet the "nice guy" would never consider hitting on and "stealing" another guy's girl, while the "jerk" would think nothing of it. So again the "nice guy" is always limiting himself by his morals and ethics. The girl says

"no thanks" to the "nice guy" and he politely walks away. The "jerk" keeps on coming, doesn't take no for an answer and harasses the women until he gets a direct no, or a slap in the face.

I bet women love that the "jerk" breaks the rules just for them,

thinking they are the One True special girl to tame him from his evil patterns. After a while they realize he breaks the rules on everyone,

even his current girlfriend which is her, and she walks away hurt

and bewildered.

*ponder*

DANG! That was an encyclopedic response JSHRN!

That should be a sticky post. Well done.

I was thinking what TrappedMind said,

There is tons of video "porn" on the internet that would probably

show you the basics in 10 seconds, for educational purposes only of course.

If you want something advanced beyond that,

try doing the what JSHRN said, but with an ice cube in your

mouth or a carbonated drink or wine even.

Oh and look up the word Teabagging.

Here is a little different take:

A guy will be happy when his girl is happy. A girl that can make lots of opportunities for him to make her happy, and then reacts positively and receptively to his solutions for her, makes him happy.

Remember that guys are performance oriented, they like goals

and touchdowns and home base and scoring points. They like "DO"ing

things.

So when he does something that satisfies you, that satisfies him. He scored. He performed. You cheered him for it.

Like waiting to let him open the car door for you, (sure you could do it, but then that is a missed opportunity for him to "DO" something )

Letting him pick a good restaurent or rock band and then complimenting him on his solution (even if it sucked a little.)

Italian women know how to handle men. I heard this Italian lady say to a man one time,

"I think you should do it this way, but you are the man, so you must know how to do it of course." So even though she was probably right,

she let the man be a man and decide himself, and even make him think

it was his idea and praise him for his "solution" to the problem later on.

Wow. Great post CanadianGirl, you really seem to have it

together and the story of your journey makes the happy ending

even sweeter.

Sweetypie may have thought that the previous posters

were harping on her instead of on the men.

But CanadianGirl said it best, in changing our own attitudes,

we change the outcomes around us.

Self fulfilling prophecies.

As others have said, it is totally normal for women to not get off on just "normal" intercourse.

Especially the missionary position with guy on top which seems to be the default alot of people do, ironically is a poor position for the woman.

There is another way of doing the missionary position which can work,

but it is rather involved. (Coital Alignment Technique is the technical term)

Most people recommend a women learn the orgasm by herself before

expecting it to work in the bedroom.

Adding in other things like oral and foreplay first with other things helps the woman get warmed up before even getting close to the intercourse part. Different positions as well.

BTW, you mentioned feeling like you had to pee, well I am surprised that no one else mentioned that that is a normal feeling for a g-spot orgasm,

(like if you had pee'd just before sex, then get that feeling again so fast, you know it is something else) Women feel like they have to bear down

and burst when they orgasm and it isn't pee at all.

It can take some trust, but for that you just let it all hang out and don't

worry about cleaning the sheets til later on. Read up about G-spot

orgasms.

Is it the mechanics? or is it in the mind?

Even for guys, they can get stimulation and if their minds are distracted or not into it, they lose their arousal etc.

I wonder if you know how to flip into a day dream or fantasy to warm yourself up as well. There is more than just the physical part of it.

Think about your favorite actor or performer attending you while

you try different stimulation.

BTW, others mentioned vibrators, I have also heard of shower head water massagers and the like for external stimulation as well.

Best to talk to her alone.

If the crowd around the girl loves you and is on your side,

you could use that peer pressure on her by making a grand

display. (Often used by people trying to do marriage proposals.)

Most times you have better chances by talking one on one.

Having a crowd of people around is too many variables.

She only needs one dissenter to feel justified in backing out.

Her connections to her "friends" are more important than you...

at first. Only if all her friends approve of you might you have a

chance.

(Discovery channel narration: The hunter must separate the gazelle from the pack, then quickly pounce on the prey with a surprise attack)

Isn't it ironic,

don't you think...

That madcat's post about "being the man" is so true,

while North American society's feminization over the

past 20 years tries to tell men to be more like women and women

to become more like men resulting in neither being happy.

Maybe there was good reasons for some things to

be the way they were before...

Perhaps the message is "not right now"...

pursue until a direct "no" is obtained, then move on.

Don't be desperate, do be funny/light hearted, do act confident even if you are not.

There are lots of other fish in the sea. If this one doesn't have reciprocal interest, then it is her loss and your freedom to go back and make your own life interesting and meet other people.

If you let her go and she doesn't come back to you, you never had her in the first place.

"It was good to get to know you, good luck with everything. Maybe we can talk another time. Good bye."

Most people think life is all about what you accumulate

 

1) a husband

2) a nice home, nice car

3) kids

4) tons of friends

5) tons of money

Yup, that myth is the result of western society's media/advertising consumerism. It is all about "accumulating" as you put it.

(The person who dies with the most toys wins?)

But all those things are ultimately empty, and they don't fulfill the deepest needs of people.

As you said, helping good causes is a much better start.

Influencing the world for good may make a bigger mark on things after we've died than becoming a millionaire for oneself.

Just look at disfunctional Hollywood types to see that riches don't result in happiness.

Don't expect to be able to change other people, it's not up to you.

Do you and he have a trust and safety zone where he can fully express himself?

Use it.

guy,

Don't bother trying for g-spot anything when she hasn't had an orgasm yet, start with the basics of a clitoral orgasm. (fingers)

Also, 30 minutes is not unusual.

Work on arousing her mind, not just the mechanics of her body.

The brain is the most important sexual organ, for women and men.

(atmosphere, anticipation, intimacy, assurance, safety, privacy)

If the subtleties above seem to take too long to bother with,

Powertools are a man's best friend... get a Jack Rabbit or

small pocket rocket vibrator + lube as a gift for you to try on her.

??? its all about power?

I disagree.

Could be in some cases, but I think that statement is too general and

it is definitely not just about men. (men are the root of all evil of course)

If that was the case, why do lesbians do it too? And I understand

some women like and ask for it too.

In any case, I would think it is more about exploring taboo.

Physically, there are many millions of nerve endings there that

can offer new and interesting sensations for both sexes. People

like finger stimulation there too, of both sexes.

Also men have their A-spot available through there, (the prostrate).

(Google the "A-spot")

Why not try for new and different pleasures with your partners?

2 words: lube and vibrator.

You sound like you have pretty good communication and trust, so

I find it odd that you can't communicate about trying lubricants or a vibrator for fun. Why can't lovemaking have some jokes and a few laughs

involved? Variety.

Lube is not only for people that have problems, I would say

it is for an added enjoyment, its not evidence for "a problem".

It gives a whole different feeling to things.

I heard of people that apply lotsa lube and have orgasms through "outercourse" (basically rubbing externally)

It gives added dimensions to love making.

Vibrators can be good for both sexes too, not just solo.

And there is nothing wrong with stimulating oneself while doing

other things, in some ways a women controls her own orgasm that way.

Mix it up.

Hello fellow canadian,

I am so sorry that you've had to go down the road you painted in your life. I want to tell you that many other people are where you are. Many folks go through the same thing, where they married a "nice" person and made a nice life, worked hard, got all the material things, then after all that they raise their heads, look around and wonder why they bothered.

You sound like you tried your best to reach your dreams and on the surface you did, but you still feel something is lacking. In particular, your relationship with your husband is lacking intimacy. (not even sex)

Though it may be hard, I think the family unit you've committed to is too important to throw away on a mere affair. The statistics about relationships that started as affairs show they rarely amount to much.

You don't have to like your husband for now, but perhaps stick with the relationship for the family's sake until all options are exhausted.

I have some thoughts to think about...

Have you considered that a husband cannot fulfill your life. A marriage partner is a human being with human failings. Though they may help

us grow by being a foil and sharpening each other, they can't fulfill our lives truly. You didn't mention if you had any spiritual outlets such as local community church, meditation or other things. Sometimes life's practicalities make us forget about that part of ourselves.

I suspect you are looking for intimacy rather than merely sex. True intimacy is very difficult for folks to maintain especially after a few years of uprearing children. It is "work" to maintain that aspect of marriage. As the previous poster said, now that things have deteriorated, the relationship may be able to start from the beginning again (getting to know each other) and forget about the sex part.

Another aspect I have heard of is women that become isolated in marriage when the children come along and even before.

Do you have girlfriends or a community of support beyond your husband?

A man simply cannot replace that part of a woman's experience. This kind of thing could ease you through this time, perhaps a church connection, or community group or even a reading, cooking or yoga class.

I think it would be wise to try marriage/couples counseling for the sake of the family you've made. (The children and extended family including your children's children) Perhaps some counseling can be found through priests, pastors or community centers. Hopefully your husband would be willing to participate for the sake of the family you've made together.

Don't give up just yet.

P.S. With true intimacy (conversation) then comes the sharing of needs and the submitting of each other to one another so that the other's needs are more important than one's self. The best sex comes from that kind of intimacy where you can feel safe together.

One of the sexiest things to a guy, is a woman interested in being sexy.

(i.e. just the idea that she is trying is a turn on)

So you are already on the road with that post.

I dunno what you've tried, but perhaps try costum roleplay,

(schoolgirl, cheerleader, etc.) , toys, food, music, candle wax, lights,

baths, surprise visits, locations,

etc. etc.

Let me start out saying I have never done the cyber relationship thing.

But I have met new friends online and met them in real life later too.

Sounds like I made the right choices so far compared to the first bitter post.

I think the Internet can be useful to get people together that have similar interests, and things in common can build out of that.

But it is bad news if you are just trolling chat rooms because of boredom.

Chat rooms seem like a waste of time. Motives are unknown. People

could just be playing games for the fun of the game.

Seems to me that moving from the Internet virtual world to the real world (phone/meet) quickly and safely would be in the best interests of the persons involved. Quickly they can be "real" and either accept or reject and not waste time. Don't waste time on people that aren't relatively local.

BTW, why do we bother to regress from the 2 way technology of the phone to a primitive serial chat interface? Anonymity? Cost as well

if not local I assume. (Though there is video and internet voice chat now)

If chatters talked on a phone like thing, it wouldn't take long to know you are talking to a 12 year old instead of a 25 year old etc. )

(BTW, about phones, Ladies don't give out your home numbers/emails until you are sure you are safe.)

This isn't my cup of tea,

but I wonder what part of the fantasy the appeal is?

Is it being worshipped by many men? (attractiveness)

Is it the anonymous part of it? (its mysterious)

Is it the deviant part of it? (its "wrong")

Is it the surrendering part of it? (being broken to become free)

Is it the dangerous part of it? (bungee-jumping anyone?)

Couldn't the core of the fantasy be role played instead of actually played out? (dangerous)

Like say using masks and blindfolds over people you trust?

Or say making a deal to have your man anonymously take you at

some point that you didn't know exactly when.

(A particular day, with stop words agreed ahead of time?)

I wonder if all those other possibilities have been tried, before

having to go "whole-hog" into it.

One thing I would think is you need a partner or two that are on your side. Like a girlfriend or guy friend who has your interests in mind too.

Then you could plot out how to do it together. Maybe a dinner party

to weed out the crazy ones and come up with something fun from there.

Isn't that what swingers do?

Just some thoughts...

The Rules....

Goodness,

I think they may be good rules of thumb, but I'd rather a woman that knows herself and is honest with her feelings rather than trying to live

up to some ideal that may not be her.

If she knows she likes the guy, and he sincerely likes her,

why all the pretense, not calling, waiting 3 dates, waiting 5 days

for this and that. Why risk the head games to blow off a good

thing?

I'd be curious about a lady's own rules and why she has them because it tells me about her, rather than the book's Rules. Following a book's rules makes me wonder if she has an opinion of her own that she's thought about for other things.

24 years old and you are worried about your relationship future eh?

Girlfriend, fuggettabootit.

I know people just like you. They buckled down, did all the things

that society expects. They got their career in order. They got

the cars and houses and material crap. Then they stick their

heads out from behind the plow and wonder: What is all this for?

(I also spent 8 years on school and career and not much else.)

Be glad you are thinking about this now instead of when you are 40.

So the same intensity you have done your career so far, you should

start to live life too. Don't let your work BE your life.

Instead of living to work, work to live! Some people even intentionally

demote themselves or move to a less intense job or start a home business

to enable their dreams. What did you want to do as a young girl?

Now you have the means. Make like Nike and do it.

Life your life to the fullest. Get lots of interests.

Become a pilot. Take martial arts. Sail a sail boat.

Go skiing (water or snow). Renovations. Cooking.

Trying creative writing. Books. Learn an instrument. Music.

Movies. Travel with girlfriends. Whatever floats your boat.

As you make yourself a more diverse person with lots of

experience, you become more interesting and have alot more

in common with alot more people. i.e men.

I think it is appealing to get to know a women who would

be a partner in a journey of life experiences rather than

a dependent who just follows, or a manager who (s)Mothers.

I have to say something to d'amour about The Rules that

perhaps should be in another thread:

Ok, I am trying to understand what the point of Feminism

was if it was not to give women the choices to do what they

will in life, including capturing a man any way they please?

I see nothing wrong with a little up front aggression to get

the ball rolling, then use The Rules to snag him the rest of

the way. Men need to be hit upside the head to snap them out of

their normally pig-headed one-dimensional binders-on view of

things at the start.