i am 18 and the girl is 14

[zippyflu]

do u think and 18 year old guy and a 14 year old girl to be going out is okie?? now, lateR? should i wait?

[jakob]

It's illegal where I live. If her parents are against it they can and will press charges, for good reason. There is a biological "puberty"/"adolescence" maturity gap. It is not just 4 years, it is 4 years that represent a milestone in personal growth. During that growth young adults learn by trial and error, sometimes with disasterous results. Don't take advantage of that naivete, that curious and fragile innocence. Be a man and understand the consequences of your actions, it may just save the two of you some serious pain.

[lost88]

Yeah i think thats its okay if your 18 and she is 14. My best friend is 14 and she was goin out with an 18 year old and it lasted a year. If you really love the girl then it shouldnt matter the age. People might not accept that fact of yalls age but they will get over it. So go for it..

[Shy_Guy]

I strongly disagree with lost88. From her previous posts, her worldview is limited to her purported age of 14. The emotional difference between someone 14 and someone 18 is MANY, MANY times greater than two people who are say 36 and 40. I don't care how 'mature acting' the 14 year old is. The 14 year old is still a CHILD, no matter how quickly her body may have developed, or what interpersonal relationships and experiences she's had. You should know better. Have you been involved in any relationships with people your OWN age? What has happened there? If they haven't given you the time of day, I'll guess its due to an inability to relate to someone in a mature manner. If this is the case, then I'd say YOU have the real growing up to do.

[zippyflu]

so u think i should wait a little??

[Daemoniel]

"Love is love no matter what two people it's between."

[will737]

You said,

"My best friend is 14 and she was goin out with an 18 year old and it lasted a year. If you really love the girl then it shouldnt matter the age."

 

Has it occurred to you that if it only lasted a year, that it wasn't love?

 

Hormones yes. Love, oh please.... get serious.

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps when you are older... like an adult... you will have enough experience behind you to understand why the following is true.

 

As an attorney, to me, it also sounds like a crime. [Certainly is in most US states.] In Missouri, it would be a felony. Bye bye go away to prison, now. And be introduced to Bubba who is glad to make this boy his girlfriend.

[Enigmatic]

You said,

Has it occurred to you that if it only lasted a year, that it wasn't love?

 

Hormones yes. Love, oh please.... get serious.

 

Are you saying there is some "rule" which states a relationship that lasts 1 year MUST be hormones? Interesting... can you point out which volume of the encyclopedia this is written?

 

Perhaps when you are older... like an adult... you will have enough experience behind you to understand why the following is true.

 

And at what age does a person become an adult?

 

At 21 when the law provides them with the rights to consume legal drugs?

 

Amazing... the world is full of totally different people and yet we all MAGICALLY turn into adults at some pre-determined age.

 

How DARE you insult another person by saying he isn't an adult simply because he doesn't fit YOUR determination of what an adult constitutes... I know of people TWICE his age who would not even bother thinking about whether they are doing the right thing (as he is) and they would simply use and abuse people... They are adults and they STILL show less maturity or consideration.

 

Obviously being bestowed with this magical "adult" status doesn't make one mature. Your ignorance is appauling.

 

As an attorney, to me, it also sounds like a crime. [Certainly is in most US states.] In Missouri, it would be a felony. Bye bye go away to prison, now. And be introduced to Bubba who is glad to make this boy his girlfriend.

 

Interesting... So this person is committing a crime even though he has said nothing more than he is "going out" with someone younger... no admission of sexual acts, nothing... and you ignorantly and automatically label him as being a criminal...

 

Yet in the same breath you practically condone him being sodomized and raped in jail.... And you are an attourney? No wonder the world is in such a sorry state with people like you throwing their IGNORANT and uninformed views around.

 

If you are an "adult" then I am ashamed to be one of the group, because people like you and your self-centred views of the world make me sick

[Enigmatic]

I strongly disagree with lost88.

 

I disagree even stronger with you.

 

From her previous posts, her worldview is limited to her purported age of 14.

 

And from your previous posts, your world view is severely limited to that of an overprotective, paranoid and controlling "father" who believes anyone under the age of 20 (or is anyone under YOUR age?) is some brainless automaton without the cognitive capacity of a domestic dog.

 

The emotional difference between someone 14 and someone 18 is MANY, MANY times greater than two people who are say 36 and 40.

 

Really? Obviously you did not pay attention in class.

 

Girls physically, hormonally and emotionally mature FASTER than boys, this has been well documented by psychologists the world around. I would hazzard a guess in saying that an "average" 14 year old girl probably has the same emotional and mental capacity as an "average" 18 year old boy. That would put them far closer than someone who is 36 and 40.

 

Also... as is usually your style you completely and totally overlook the history that has gotten these people to this point, who they are, what they have done during their time, etc, etc... Once again your magical line in the sand is showing... as is the ignorance.

 

Imagine the THOUSANDS of 30 year olds in this world who still live with their parents, have never had sex, never had a relationship and possibly never even been on a date... In your obfuscating world, these people would for some strange reason despite their social retardedness be more emotionally able to cope with a relationship and sex than say an 16 year old girl who has experienced several during her life and even had sex.

 

Can you explain how it is that in this instance the age difference goes AGAINST your ignorant rules?

 

I can... It is because EXPERIENCE and LIFE HISTORY means far more than age. Usually these are gained THROUGH age... but that is not the rule (as you seem to think).

 

I don't care how 'mature acting' the 14 year old is. The 14 year old is still a CHILD, no matter how quickly her body may have developed, or what interpersonal relationships and experiences she's had.

 

You may treat your children that way, but please refrain from poisoning everyone else with your ignorant views. You may falsely believe your 14 year old daughter is still a child, but you really should have a look out in the REAL world some time to see that this is not the case.

 

For that matter... please define exactly what being a "CHILD" means? What are the limitations on a child? I know children far younger than 14 who drive (they are legally allowed to drive due to living on a farm), I myself managed a business at age 12 and at age 16 people are required to make decisions about their FUTURE that will effect them for the rest of their life.

 

Once again I find your use of the word "child" in such a derogatory and bigotted way very sickening.

 

You should know better. Have you been involved in any relationships with people your OWN age?

 

Over 50% of the world relationships end in divorce... I would hazard a guess that the majority of those are from people who are of similar age... Is that not proof enough that someone your "own age" means nothing?

 

What has happened there? If they haven't given you the time of day, I'll guess its due to an inability to relate to someone in a mature manner. If this is the case, then I'd say YOU have the real growing up to do.

 

Yes daddy.

 

Mr Authoritarian "GodLike" figure once again is showing his true colours...

 

To the person who posted this topic, understand that Shy Guy has a daughter about the age of 14 and that he is lividly terrified by people such as yourself believing everyone is a predator (especially those older), and that anyone under the age of 18 are mentally handicapped and anyone who treats someone "YOUNGER" than themselves as a human being is some socially retarded hunchback who preys upon younger girls because people their own age rebuke them.

 

Also understand that he has never actually stated the age difference between him and his wife, nor when they met.... probably turn out that they met when he was 18 and she was 16 yet he feels it isn't relevant to this discussion.

 

I wish you and your ignorant views would simply "grow up" as you keep suggesting to everyone else.

[will737]

You said, "

Are you saying there is some "rule" which states a relationship that lasts 1 year MUST be hormones? Interesting... can you point out which volume of the encyclopedia this is written?"

 

If the emotion at issue doesn't even last but a year, it is just clearly not love. In fact it may not even be affection, it may be a simple mistake as to who the 18-year-old is; it's just not that tough to fool a 14-year-old-girl. The simple fact is that this is just so obvious to adults that no one has ever considered it necessary to put it in an encyclopedia. To take any other position is to demean the word "love" to a nullity.

 

You asked, "And at what age does a person become an adult?"

 

Good Question. Not that I believe that you will listen, but I'll attempt it. Even there, in South Austrailia, where you live, where children are considerably less sheltered than here in the States, unless I read the age of consent site wrongly, the collective wisdom of the adults in your part of the world is that:

 

No person is an adult for this purpose if they are under 16.

 

 

[it is of no matter how "mature" you personally think they are. Nor does it matter what else they may or may not know about.]

 

This is not my judgement that you really hate; but it is the judgement of the adults in even your relatively unsheltered part of the world. I assure you that many states in the US have higher minimum ages for being an adult for this purpose. Further it is their collective wisdom that anyone violating that rule, should go to jail for an extremely serious crime. They don't do this for fun. It's very expensive and unpleasant to have to lock people up in jail, even if they are worthless child-molesting scumbags. Nor do they do it because they are trying to pick on you. You are not that important. Nor do they do it to be inconvenient for you. You are not that important. They do it because in their considered adult and experienced and knowledgeable view of the world, it is necessary to minimally protect people who are obviously children. Your government picked 16 as a minimum age--an age below which the girl cannot possibly be fairly considered an adult for this purpose. And they are so convinced that this is a bare minimum that they are willing to spend all that time and trouble to lock you up. And the parents of the boys vote for these limits too; so implicitly they are also agreeing.

 

 

You asserted, "How DARE you insult another person by saying he isn't an adult simply because he doesn't fit YOUR determination of what an adult constitutes... I know of people TWICE his age who would not even bother thinking about whether they are doing the right thing (as he is) and they would simply use and abuse people... They are adults and they STILL show less maturity or consideration. Obviously being bestowed with this magical "adult" status doesn't make one mature. Your ignorance is appauling."

 

Your purported logic here is just completely silly. Check it. Your argument is logically equivalent to the following: Because some people, who are 20, drive like morons, it's OK to let 10 year olds drive. That's just silly.

 

And the fact that some people who are older than the age of consent or older than our 18 year old are not good people, means nothing about whether a 14 year old is an adult to be having sex with the 18 year old. The decision of your society is that the 14-year-old should not be having sex with anybody, not even the most holy of persons. They have decided that if the 18 year old is having sex with a 14-year-old, he should be locked up for molesting a child. Further, it is no insult to state the obvious fact that a 14 year old is not an adult for these purposes. It's just obvious. That is the result of well considered, wisdom of your society and government. I think maybe some of them may know more than you. Again, even in your hearty part of the world, 16 is a minimum age for a person to be an adult for these purposes. This is not only my opinion, but the collective wisdom of your government of adults. But hey, you're welcome to try to prove me wrong. You live in a free society. So if you want to run for government on a sex for 14-year-olds platform, you're welcome to it. Frankly, I think they'll laugh you off of your podium as just another nut. I know I would.

 

It would appear to me that you so wish it to be true that having sex with 14-year-olds is OK that you will go to any length to make a purported argument for it no matter how illogical the purported argument is. You try so hard, you make me wonder if you are the 18 year old boy in question. Or if not, whether you selfishly and ignorantly and self-centeredly did such a thing with an underage girl? Has the statute of limitation run? I really do wonder.

 

You said, "Interesting... So this person is committing a crime even though he has said nothing more than he is "going out" with someone younger... no admission of sexual acts, nothing... and you ignorantly and automatically label him as being a criminal... Yet in the same breath you practically condone him being sodomized and raped in jail.... And you are an attourney? No wonder the world is in such a sorry state with people like you throwing their IGNORANT and uninformed views around."

 

I wonder if you, being from South Austrailia, even know what the phrase, "too Okie" in the original post means? I'll give you a hint. It does not mean the innocent holding of hands by two five year olds. But beyond that, assuming the orginal post incorrectly used that phrase to talk about something innocent, why would the question even be necessary? And I also note that everyone else here also came to the same conclusion that this is what we were talking about, and there was no protest from the original poster.

 

And you are just dodging the issues. Making smoke and attacking everyone other than yourself and asserting that you know more than everyone in your whole society simply does not make you right about the issue at hand.

 

First you are just being silly when you try to suggest I condone criminal sodomy [though admittedly you use the weasel word "practically" to try to escape complete derision on this point.] Though I do admit that I certainly don't feel that sorry for child molesters who have this happen to them any more than I feel particularly sorry for murderers who are put to death by capital punishment. I acknowledge that sometimes evil people get what's coming to them without anyone like me having to do anything. And I'll save my tears for the innocent. And the simple fact is that if this boy is having sex with a 14 year old girl--that is molesting of a child--he will in fact in turn be one of the first to be molested in prison. Prisoners very uniformly hate child molesters. That is a fact. All authorities agree on this. And this 18 year old boy needs to think about that fact. He needs to think about that now. He needs to think about it very very seriously. My warning to him is nothing more than a kindness, in hopes he won't be so stupid. As for you, you protest here way too much. Why?

 

As for me being ignorant, it would appear to me that you think that your whole society is ignorant and you are the only knowledgeable and intelligent one. I personally doubt you are that smart. And you do this is despite your totally obvious gaps in logic, knowledge and experience in your post. How many relevant college degrees do you have, if I may ask? How many hours of the study of the psychology and social-psychology of sexual activity do you have? How many friends do you have who run prisons or prison systems? What qualifications do you have to claim that you are not entirely ignorant on this subject?

 

As for your final personal attack [which I don't mind as it made me laugh at your silliness]. It has nothing to do with the issues here. You claim that I'm being "self-centered", but that is the most pitiful of all of your silly attempts to deflect from the real issues. I have no daughters to protect. [ As if that's a sin. As if that is "selfish."] Quite the contrary. And,in point of fact, I had a very pretty little 14-year-old girl lifeguard hit on me at the local YMCA a couple of years ago. But because I am honest and decent, I knew something that you apparently don't. Just because she was absolutely the most fully "developed" physically of all of the female lifeguards there (even the 18-year olds), does not mean that she is an adult, or that her mind is adequately developed to cope with the fallout from what she was suggesting. Of course I scolded her. Just as her parents should have done. I would certainly pity her though if you were her father. Or even worse, you could be her 18-year-old "boyfriend" using her like a piece of meat. By contrast, to me, your view is obviously the ignorant, self-centered one.

 

You have used illogic, innuendo, personal attacks [which don't even come close to the mark and aren't even relevant], lack of knowledge and a criminal defence attorney mentality--you try to "get them off" no matter how guilty. But you don't have much else. You try to confuse the issues and don't succeed. You have a lot of heat and smoke in your purported arguments, lad, but not much light. You're just wrong here.

 

Will

[Enigmatic]

If the emotion at issue doesn't even last but a year, it is just clearly not

love. In fact it may not even be affection, it may be a simple mistake as to who the 18-year-old is; it's just not that tough to fool a 14-year-old-girl. The simple fact is that this is just so obvious to adults that no one has

ever considered it necessary to put it in an encyclopedia.

 

Wow... you can read all that from the simple statement "it lasted a year".

 

Amazing... So you have absolutely no idea why the relationship ended, if one of them moved state, or if there were other problems involved (psychological problems perhaps), there could have been a 100 reasons for the relationship ending and none of them has anything to do with the fact the emotion did NOT last.

 

I am sure you know many cases where people love each other yet their

relationship doesn't last for various reasons... but to ignorantly and outright dismiss something based on absolutely no information only shows your bigotry.

 

To take any other position is to demean the word "love" to a nullity.

 

Ok, so define for me what time frame is required before you can legally define it as love?

 

If 1 year falls below your imaginary mark, what about a 2 year relationship? 3 years?

 

I am actually interested to hear not only your answers but which reference book you obtained them from.

 

Good Question. Not that I believe that you will listen, but I'll attempt it.

 

How very unadult of you to make assumptions based on emotional bias...

 

Even there, in South Austrailia, where you live, where children are

considerably less sheltered than here in the States,

 

Mind explaining where you have gained this knowledge? Or is it the same source as the rest of your ignorant and bigoted pool of misinformation and personal disallusionment?

 

unless I read the age of consent site wrongly, the collective wisdom of the

adults in your part of the world is that:

 

No person is an adult for this purpose if they are under 16.

 

So at 16 one MAGICALLY becomes an adult... how intersting.

 

I also find it funny however... that the law states a person is not allowed to

view material of a sexual nature until they are 18 (Movies Rated 'R' for

instance). So legally they are allow to perform an act for 2 years before they are actually able to watch it... Don't you find that interesting?

 

Now perhaps I am wrong... but I also thought that one of the tenants of being anadult was being able to do things adults do... yet as you say they are not an adult until age 16, they have only JUST obtained the ability to drive, they cannot vote in an election, they will not be sent to war via conscription and they cannot legally consume alcohol or cigarettes for 2 more years....

 

Wow... So if someone is an "adult" at age 16, then why do so many things only become legal to them at age 18?

 

It is of no matter how "mature" you personally think they are. Nor does it

matter what else they may or may not know about

 

Obviously... you are proving that point extremely well.

 

This is not my judgement that you really hate; but it is the judgement of

the adults in even your relatively unsheltered part of the world. I assure

you that many states in the US have higher minimum ages for being an adult for this purpose.

 

So you are saying that in your part of the world people mature slower and that the law has actually observed this phenomenon and thus increased the minimum age in order to cope with your countries retardedness compared to the rest of the world?

 

I pitty you then... That the two of us may be the same age yet I have been an "adult" longer than you must really grate on your nerves.

 

Further it is their collective wisdom that anyone violating that rule, should go to jail for an extremely serious crime. They don't do this for fun. It's very expensive and unpleasant to have to lock people up in jail, even if they are worthless child-molesting scumbags.

 

Mmmm... now that is interesting. Do you realise that this law only pertains to people above that age? That if a boy of 16 was to have intimacy with a girl of 16 then it is NOT considered as you say so poorly "child molesting"?

 

Another interesting fact... Someone who was born on the 1st of january who is intimate with a person who is only ONE DAY younger than him is "suddenly" committing a serious crime because of the chronology of his birth? And that at some point during 2 magical years in which a person goes from being 16 to 18 he "suddenly" develops the mentality or ability to become a child molesterer where only 2 years prior he was incapable (as far as the law is concerned)

 

They do it because in their considered adult and experienced and knowledgeable view of the world, it is necessary to minimally protect people who are obviously children.

 

Are these the same wise people who say you can HAVE sex at 16 but you cannot WATCH set until you are 18... These are the "wise" people whom you follow and as an attourney whom you look up to.

 

I think we are getting to the crux of the situation here... you follow a bunch of idiots who design and develop laws with the intention to protect people but end up doing nothing more than wasting the money of everyone else in the courts... You call an innocent, caring and loving 18 year old boy who falls in love with a mature, consciencious and strong 14 year old girl (without ANY mention of sex) a scumbag? I think attourneys are the scumbags, at least these 2 are not taking money from other people, they are not hurting other people and what they do is with the conscent of all involved... You on the other hand take money from people, vast quantitied way beyond their ability to afford or any

"fair" measure and you have the audacity to pass judgement on other people!?

 

Your government picked 16 as a minimum age--an age below which the girl cannot possibly be fairly considered an adult for this purpose. And they are so convinced that thisis a bare minimum that they are willing to spend all that time and trouble to lock you up.And the parents of the boys vote for these limits too; so implicitly they are alsoagreeing.

 

I find that interesting. A person is not able to legally make their OWN choice to consent to sex at this age because the government considers them "sub-human"... yet they happily put them behind the wheel of a motor vehicle,make them fully responsible for anything that happens and trusts in their judgement and mental faculties NOT to kill other people in the process.

 

Ahhh... sorry... I forgot... this is these same "wise" people you were talking about earlier wasn't it?

 

My mistake... I must get a manual on how to obfuscate the law as badly as has been done, I may understand better.

 

Your purported logic here is just completely silly. Check it. Your argument

is logically equivalent to the following: Because some people, who are 20,

drive like morons, it's OK to let 10 year olds drive. That's just silly.

 

I am not surprised that is how you read what I wrote, considering how poorly you have understood anything this is only to be expected.

 

The point you have made above is the absolute reverse of what I am saying. Just because a person is of a certain age does not mean they should have a license to drive. It is not simply the "age" which determines a persons validity but a determination by the authorities that they pass all the requirements.

 

To prove that point I gave you the example of a 14 year old boy who can

LEGALLY drive, thus dismissing the fact of "age" being the factor. To try and illustrate this further I showed that people who ARE over this age drive WORSE than some of those that are under, highlighting even further the fact that determination based purely on AGE has no meaning and is pure ignorance.

 

Would you like it explained a 3rd time? Or can you cope with this one?

 

That is the result of well considered, wisdom of your society and government. I

think maybe some of them may know more than you.

 

Yes... alas I MUST know less than them because their laws are so clear and precise, so clear in fact that no lawyers are needed to try and muddle their way through them, there are no appeals because everything is just so wise and so well laid out that nobody ever finds loopholes or ways around it.

 

May I ask which world you live in?

 

It would appear to me that you so wish it to be true that having sex with

14-year-olds is OK that you will go to any length to make a purported

argument for it no matter how illogical the purported argument is.

 

Does this come from the same mental source as the one who condones sodomy and rape in prison?

 

All I am saying is that it isn't as clear cut as age, I have proved with several examples (and all you have to quote is "wise" people whose laws I have also proved are NOT wise) this is the case. What I would "wish" (if you had even bothered asking) is that situations like these should be made on a case-by-case basis by truly wise people (not these people you talk of), by psychologists and social workers who actually UNDERSTAND the society we live in instead of politicians who have never seen the real world in their life.

If it turns out that it isn't in the best interests of the girl then by all

means stop them... but to automatically assume without any information or knowledge is pure ignorance.

 

You try so hard, you make me wonder if you are the 18 year old boy in question. Or if not, whether you selfishly and ignorantly and self-centeredly did such a thing with an underage girl? Has the statute of limitation run? I really do wonder.

 

Ah of course... Commies under the bed, Terrorists in the cupboard... I

MUST be some evil creature, a predator that preys on people... It is

totally beyond all perception and reason that someone could actually have a different view to yours... and if someone did have a different view then it must be one derrived in pure selfish hedonism.

 

It is ignorant assumptions like that which is why the world of the 20th century NEEDS to grow up, it is views like yours which have brought our world to the point it is, where kids are shooting each other in schools, why NY has a murder every how many seconds?, and why the "politically correct" yet "mentally retarded" people such as yourself are in positions where they can cause the most damage.

 

If you are an attourney you should be utterly and absolutely ashamed of

yourself, to make such assumptions and to be so ignorant only makes me feel very sad for the people who waste their money believing you can help them.

 

First you are just being silly when you try to suggest I condone criminal

sodomy [though admittedly you use the weasel word "practically" to try to

escape complete derision on this point.]

 

Ahh I see... and am I just being silly you now accusing ME of molesting a child? I do believe that is "slander" in your part of the world... and you being anattourney and all (And do not attempt to get out of it by saying you were just "wondering" out aloud)

 

Though I do admit that I certainly don't feel that sorry for child molesters who have this happen to them any more than I feel particularly sorry for murderers who are put to death by capital punishment.

 

That is the problem... You see 2 people who are in love, one of which falls

below this "magic marker" and you label him with the same repugnance as some 40 year old man who preys on children and forces them to do things. Do you honestly believe the two to be the same? You obviously believe so.

 

I acknowledge that sometimes evil people get what's coming to them without anyone like me having to do anything. And I'll save my tears for the innocent. And the simple fact is that if this boy is having sex with a 14 year old girl--that is molesting of a child--he will in fact in turn be one of the first to be molested in prison. Prisoners very uniformly hate child molesters. That is a fact. All authorities agree on this.

 

And what of the people who meet girls who say they are 18, who have fake IDs to prove it and yet it turns out later they were under 16? Is the man a child molesterer and should be sent to prison to be raped simply because he unknowingly made a mistake? After all... fact is fact, she was under age and he wasn't so once again he is a child molesterer in your world.

 

What I am trying to say (and what your blinded by the law eyes cannot see) is that there are always CIRCUMSTANCES, and that to blindly take limited information that you see and use that in the way you are doing so is pure bigotry.

 

And this 18 year old boy needs to think about that fact. He needs to

think about that now. He needs to think about it very very seriously. My

warning to him is nothing more than a kindness, in hopes he won't be so stupid.

 

Well I would warn him also, but I would do so because chances are those people around him are like you... ignorant, bigoted and will not take the time to understand anything and will simply make things worse if he did choose that path.

 

As for you, you protest here way too much. Why?

 

Would you believe me if I told you? Or would you instantly assume there was an ulterior motive?

 

I protest because I hate injustice, I hate ignorant people, I hate those who

judge other people and especially those who believe their own personal beliefs should be shared by the world. Your response, the fact you categorized this boy in the same way as a raper of children, that you almost laugh with glee at the prospect of him being sodomised and raped in prison, made me realise that another point of view was required here.

 

As for me being ignorant, it would appear to me that you think that your

whole society is ignorant and you are the only knowledgeable and intelligent one. I personally doubt you are that smart. And you do this is despite your totally obvious gaps in logic, knowledge and experience in your post.

 

Ahhh.. but of course you know more. "gaps in logic"? Interesting. You point out "wise" people whose laws are proved to be contradictory yet I am not smart enough?

 

How many relevant college degrees do you have, if I may ask? How many hours of the study of the psychology and social-psychology of sexual activity do you have? How many friends do you have who run prisons or prison systems? What qualifications do you have to claim that you are not entirely ignorant on this subject?

 

LOL!!!

 

I never thought i would see this here... but here we are... its a Pi$$ing

contest is it? Whip it out and lets compare size so we can put it to rest the

"old fashioned" way?

 

I was wondering when it would come down to point scoring... when people start to fail to make a good case they resort to alternative methods of achieving their goals.

 

As for your final personal attack [which I don't mind as it made me laugh at your silliness]. It has nothing to do with the issues here. You claim that

I'm being "self-centered", but that is the most pitiful of all of your silly

attempts to deflect from the real issues. I have no daughters to protect. [

As if that's a sin. As if that is "selfish."] Quite the contrary.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the fact you are an attourney and thus the law is your "crutch" and is never wrong. The self-centered comment relates to the fact you would never admit nor even acknowledge that perhaps your beloved law system could be at fault, or that the people who write those laws would ever make a mistake or misjudge society in any way...

 

Hence I believe it is very relevant... Of course you wouldn't have seen this, I was being far too cerebral for you to pick up on the association

 

And,in point of fact, I had a very pretty little 14-year-old girl lifeguard hit

on me at the local YMCA a couple of years ago. But because I am honest and decent, I knew something that you apparently don't. Just because she wasabsolutely the most fully "developed" physically of all of the female lifeguards there (even the 18-year olds), does not mean that she is an adult, or that her mind is adequately developed to cope with the fallout from what she was suggesting.

 

Interesting... do you often look at young girls like that? And take note of how fully developed they are? "very pretty", "absolutely the most fully developed".. An interesting use of words... anyone would think you were attracted to someone so young. Are you often attracted to girls so young? Perhaps we SHOULD inform the police if you are finding yourself attracted to people so young.

 

you try to "get them off" no matter how guilty.

 

Interesting... I dont believe I ever said anything like that, in fact all I was

saying is that based on the original post there isn't much information to go on, we dont know their history, we dont know who they are as people. I ask for more information and scold you for being so judgemental and you believe I am trying to work it so that this boy can "get it".

 

You have a lot of heat and smoke in your purported arguments,

lad, but not much light. You're just wrong here.

 

"lad"... interesting, have you already placed yourself in a position of

authority or superiority? I haven't been called "lad" for years, then again, Iguess it does show the level fo disrespect you have for people in general.

 

Someone writes "Me 18, her 14, should we wait?" and you go "Get raped in jail you scumbag child-molesterer".

 

I say "Hang on, don't judge, lets find out more first"

 

But I am wrong?

 

Let me know when you have joined the "real" world.

[will737]

an enigma at all, but just not sufficiently well adjusted to your world to understand that laws exist for a purpose. That no law can be perfect at all times does in no way negate a need for law. That is also something you need to learn. Those purposes go well beyond what you can learn by merely sitting with a computer. But to understand those things, you will have to do some actual study, not just spout silly ideas about what you think based on your lack of study.

 

As for me, I joined the real world at the age of twelve, when I read my first law book. And unlike you, I have some real knowledge of this subject as I, unlike you, have studied it. I notice you shy way far away from actual comparisons of our relative knowledge on the subject in question, and instead prefer to whine about the law not being perfect. The young people reading will note this too.

 

It remains a fact that some are too young for some things. They need protection. And some others need to know that in the real world that there are real punishments, sometimes very very harsh, for violating those protections and rules. Thankfully, if the 18-year-old in question listened, he now knows that if he didn't before. And he knows that there are limits that go beyond just disaffectedly whining about what a person would like the rules to be or whining that a person would like to have no rules.

 

And I don't really care whether you like the real world. I don't really care whether you acknowledge the importance of governments of laws. I know, you whine that you know so much more than all of the rest of us. But that is what makes me, and should make others, so sure that you don't know much. Sitting in front of a computer screen is not contact with the real world. And you have proven by your posts that you are just not so brilliant that based on the small amount of contact with the real world you've apparently had, that anyone, much less these young and tender persons, need to listen to your ill informed opinions.

 

Perhaps if I and the rest of the world is so wrong, and you do turn out to know so much, you will run for office and teach all the rest of us from your great knowledge of the real world. But I doubt it.

 

Will

[Enigmatic]

That no law can be perfect at all times does in no way negate a need for law.That is also something you need to learn. Those purposes go well beyond what you can learn by merely sitting with a computer. But to understand those things, you will have to do some actual study, not just spout silly ideas about what you think based on your lack of study.

 

Will...

 

At no point have I ever stated that a law should be negated, and despite your poor assumptions as to my eduction or understanding of the law the point I was making has obviously failed you.

 

What I was saying is that "because" our laws are not perfect at all times, and "because" we understand there is still a need for them, we need to TEMPER those laws with knowledge, understanding and a complete assessment of the situation.

 

That is why I am picking you up on it... because you simply read "he 18, she 14, she under age thereforeeeeeee crime committed".

 

You have taken the law at face value, without any knowledge of their situation, without any tempering based on the situation itself... you have given "blind justice" and found him guilty outright and with no reason.

 

Sure it is against the law, and the laws MUST be there (Where you

believed I said they shouldn't is beyond me)... but you cannot apply the law with so little information.

 

If it turns out the girl is being pressured into it, or if the boy doesn't have

good intentions, or if there are a multitude of reasons why it "should" be

considered a crime then by all means (and I fully support it) stop it from

happening and charge the person with committing a crime.

 

BUT

 

You cannot determine this with so little information, and to do so is a crime in itself.

 

If after gaining more facts, more knowledge, more "wisdom" (a word you seem to like in your previous post that has suddenly disappeared. Do you now admit they are not that wise?), it is found that these two people knowingly and willingly conscent, love each other to the capacity they can, understand the implications of what they are doing and have had fair and honest council by those around them... Then is it a crime?

 

What crime has been committed?

 

The purpose of laws are to protect those who cannot protect themselves, it is there to provide "reason for pause" for those who have the power to dominate or abuse others. How can someone be abused if it is mutually consentual?

 

Now you may say "She doesn't truly understand and thereforeeeeeee cannot give conscent", but who are we to judge what she can or cannot understand? I am not a 14 year old girl and I have absolutely no idea what she is or is not capable of... neither do you, neither does some fat cat politician in his late 60's sitting in some beaurocrats office know.

 

Yet you and these "wise people" somehow feel you have the right to force upon them choices that they may not want.. So who is being abused here? who is being dominated and subjegated into something against their will? A 14 year old girl who wants to express her love for a boyfriend that cares greatly for her? (if this is the case) or some "last century" politician out of touch with the world forcing HER to do thing the way HE believes she should.

 

It doesn't take anyone of intelligence to see who is being victomized here.

 

(Having said that, I dont know if the original poster is in this position, he

may in fact not have good itentions, and she may in fact not be mature and responsible enough to decide... BUT WE DONT KNOW THAT!. You have taken the worst view and I have provided an "alternative" view to show that it isn't so cut and dried)

 

As for me, I joined the real world at the age of twelve, when I read my

first law book. And unlike you, I have some real knowledge of this subject

as I, unlike you, have studied it. I notice you shy way far away from actual comparisons of our relative knowledge on the subject in question, and instead prefer to whine about the law not being perfect. The young people reading will note this too.

 

I have absolutely no qualms in admitting that you are FAR more

knowledgable about the law than I am, and in fact I am happy to "defer" on all counts to your understanding of it completely and totally overshadows mine...

 

But what does "law" have to do with what is right and wrong? You yourself admit they are not perfect and that laws are created NOT by people but by beaurocrats who often have no touch with the real world.

 

Take my example for instance... The "law" says you can have sex at 16... yet you cannot "watch" people having sex (or see an erect penis) until you are 18. That is the law (and I am sure you can tell me exactly which paragraphs it is, whatm chapter it comes under etc, etc) but you don't have to know the law to see that this is preposterous, that there is clearly a hole in the system.

 

(PLEASE ANSWER THIS ONE, YOU MISSED IT PURPOSELY IN THE PREVIOUS POST)

 

It remains a fact that some are too young for some things. They need

protection. And some others need to know that in the real world that there

are real punishments, sometimes very very harsh, for violating those

protections and rules.

 

I agree whole heartedly... and I would be the first person standing up there to make sure that these people are protected...

 

BUT

 

The determination for what is "too young" should not SOLELY rest upon the chronological age of the person. To have so clear cut and dried a line will cause innocent people to be punished for things they didn't do, it will cause them to be considered and treated as people THOUSANDS of times worse than them for no other reason than people like you cannot understand that there needs to be perspicacity within the legal system... not globally mathematical statements like "

 

I repeat again (and I am not talking about the poster here), why is an 18 year old boy, in a stable, encouraging and loving relationship with a 14 year old girl, who is mature and knowledgable enough to freely consent to intimacy, considered the SAME as a 40 year old man who serially rapes and abuses children?

 

Clearly you believe they are exactly the same... clearly they are not.

 

THAT is the point I am making here. I am not condoning it happening, I am not saying laws should not be there, I am not trying to "get him off"... I am simply saying that you need to look at things a bit more openly and with more thirst for knowing the FACTS, rather than wading in with you law books saying "Clearly it breaks the law, go get raped in prison"... That makes YOU worse than them.

 

Thankfully, if the 18-year-old in question listened, he now knows that if he

didn't before. And he knows that there are limits that go beyond just disaffectedly whining about what a person would like the rules to be or whining that a person would like to have no rules.

 

And who is that person? I have never said that... that was your own bigotry and your own pre-determined bias that ignored what I wrote and made several assumptions based not on fact but on their own emotional state.

 

Notice how I have repeatedly stated that I do not talk of having laws removed yet you continue to believe I do... Notice that more than once I have reiterated my views yet you continue to ignore them, instead believing what YOU want to believe and not what I write. If that is not ignorant blindness I dont know what is... Even if I ask you if you now understand you will ignore the line of the reply completely... why? Because admitting it means you have to drop your preconceptions, you would have to lose your bias and it is my belief that you will refuse to do this until the day you die...

 

I know, you whine that you know so much more than all of the rest of us.

But that is what makes me, and should make others, so sure that you don't know much.

 

Again your assumptions are false and based on your own bias.

 

Do I know mor than the rest of us? No... But I can clearly see the faults that are there and have pointed them out CLEARLY yet you refuse to acknowledge them.

 

You "want" to believe that I dont know much, it sits better with you... it

"galls" you to think that someone else may have found things that you have not... But guess who is making clear points and guess who has conveniently ignored them?

 

You wont even respond on my point of the disparity between age of conscent and censorship of visual material... yet you call ME without knowledge?!?!

 

that anyone, much less these young and tender persons, need to listen

to your ill informed opinions.

 

Ahhh.. but of course they should listen to yours shoudln't they... YOU are right and I am wrong because you are the lawyer and I am not... So simple in your world isn't it?

 

We have 2 possibilities here :

 

Possibility 1

Two people who truly love each other, know what they are doing, know the risks and the responsibilities and wish to express their love for one another.

 

If that is the case then your "knowledge" will make them feel like they are

criminals, that their feelings for one another are wrong and that they are some how "scum" for even contemplating it. Your knowledge will tell him that he should be raped and sodomized in prison for what he is thinking. There he is wanting to express his love for his partner, and you are saying that it is a crime, that he should suffer greivously, with his own rights and body violated horribly simply because he is in a situation where she is under age.

 

Thats good advice you give there...

 

My advice? My advice is that he needs to be sure he is doing the right thing, that she knows what she is getting into, that they are doing it for the right reasons, that she isn't being pressured into it, and that they need to understand the gravity of what are doing and be absolutely sure that nobody will get hurt as a result. As the older person he needs to be MORE vigilant, he need to make sure that she isn't doing it for the wrong reasons, he needs to protect her and make sure she isn't deceiving herself and that she truly does understand.

 

The advice I give if this "IS" the situation would be far more helpful and less destructive than yours.

 

Possibility 2

He just wants sex, for some crazy reason he decided to come to a forum to ask other peoples opinions (which is strange if he is the predator you say he is), and he will do everything he can to get them.

 

Your advice may or may not have an effect on him. If this is the case and he is a predator then he deserves what he gets and I would be the first to acknowledge it. People who prey on others are totally despicable, people who force others into things against their will are the true scum of the earth. Your advice may hopefully shock him and he may not do it. If it does stop him it will stop him out of fear of being caught, but I cannot understand why a person who is a predator (and knows it) would enter a forum like this and post his intentions.

 

My advice? If this is the situation then my advice might be as useless as yours, obviously it isn't as strong and "fear of god" as yours is but you have already stated yours so I dont need to cover that angle... instead, if it doesn't deter him out of "fear" then my advice may deter him out of compassion... by realising that what he is doing may hurt her, or that it isn't a good thing he may choose not to do it or these reasons.

 

Conclusion

The whole purpose for me offering an alternative was that your solution didn't cover all bases, it simply did the typical athoritarian thing of "You Bad, Suffer and Die!" which rarely gets through to people... his post needed an alternative view, not one that says "Hey go and do it" but one that is intelligent and open enough to say "Make sure its right if you do decide, because it could really hurt her if it isn't right".

 

Yours talks about LAW and about RIGHT/WRONG and mine talks about PEOPLE... about LIVES. Your head is so up in the sky you forget that we are talking about real people here... You are so interested in the establishment of laws to protect some "unkown" quantity, while REAL people are getting hurt regardless of those laws.

 

Perhaps if I and the rest of the world is so wrong, and you do turn out to

know so much, you will run for office and teach all the rest of us from your great knowledge of the real world. But I doubt it.

 

Run for office? Hehehe... join the "boys club".

 

Obviously you know very little about politics. It isn't the one with the "best" answers who gets into power... it is the one that can play their games, who can beat them at their own games, the one with the least "mud" stuck to them.

 

I wouldn't last 5 minutes in "office" because I dont fight dirty like other

people, I dont compromise my morals and some fo the answers I come up with wouldn't be viewed well by the politically correct "minority" who are so far removed from the world they wouldn't know a human being if it robbed their beverley hills appartment.

 

To give you an example of what I am talking about, a high court judge recently said during a spousal abuse case... "As a wife it is sometimes her duty to have sex with her husband if he wants it, there is nothing wrong with a husband taking something that is rightfully his through marriage".

 

THAT is the kind of "wise" person you are talking about, THAT is the kind of blind ignorance and out of touch nature I mean.

 

Also, a very respected, very responsible and incredibly good high court judge recently disclosed his homosexuality. Certain factions of the community were up in arms about it and got him sacked... For what reason? Was he bad at his job? Did he do anything to compromise his office? ABSOLUTELY NOT, he had a steady partner who he had been with for decades... and his only "crime"... was not fitting into the small minded views of the vocal minority who are so mentally challenged it amazes me.

 

Yet once again these things are happening in the "real world"... the one which you believe you are a part of but seem to fail to understand so well.

[jessr06]

Im not even going to read this, age aint nothing but a number, if you like you like, if both of you are wililng to put ur all into a relationship, go ahead, but treat her with respect! but if you think your just in it for the virgin or the sex, than i think you shouldnt, really think about this, you may be hurting yourself, and even worse...hurting her! because remember, at her age... crushes mean DEEP crushes!

[Danielle26]

To tell the truth age shouldnt really matter if u care about the person. my best friend is in the same sort of predicament. If u love her u love her if u dont then thats a problem. Do wut u feel is right.

:smilecolros:

[pilotguy123]

I enjoyed reading that argument until it bored me silly, so I skipped a lot of it. I personally do not believe you have to be a certain age to love someone or that loving someone not your age is somehow morally wrong.

 

If you love each other I wish you both the best of luck. The guy should think very carefully about whether or not he loves this girl.

 

I want anyone reading this to pay very close attention to what I am about to post: The closest definition I have been able to find of true love is when one cares more about his or her love's happiness than their own.

 

If you truly believe you will do everything you can to make her happy, not just superficially but on all levels, then I can't see any reason why the two of you cannot be together. If deep down you know that you want her because you think this is the only way you can get a virgin, or because you think a 14 year old will be less likely to break up with you, or something else along those lines you need to not only reconsider having a relationship with this girl, but you should be careful about having one with any girl until you meet one who you love using the definition I gave you.

 

If you decide that your reasons for wanting to go out with her are not true love then that is nothing against you, it shows that you can take a step back and examine yourself and your motives, which is impressive for anyone of any age.

 

If, on the other hand, you examine your motives and discover that you truly are in love with this girl and those feelings are returned then my heart goes out to both of you. Good luck!

[Mischivo]

My advice is this. If she's of the legal age of sexual consent (and if you plan this eventually), do it. However, don't do it just for the sex. If you like her, and she shares your feelings, then it is alright. To the guys complaining against this: why bother?

 

If she doesn't date him, she'll just end up dating some 14 year old idiot. How is that any better? So she'll fall in "love" with the 14 year old, is it any better? No! Anywho...

 

I can assure you that if you live in Canada, it is fully legal for you to engage in vaginal sex with anyone at or above 14 years of age. For more references about age of consent in different political systems go to link removed

[SlightlyConfussed]

yes, i think it is completely acceptable, my boyfriend is 17 and I am 13...and hes turning 18 in like 3 months, and then 2 months after that im 14...and i mean if you love/like...or however it is you feel about her, then age should mean nothing...

[Guyute]

There is no way an 18 year old should be with a 14 year old.

It is wrong.

A lot of growing up goes on between 14 and 18, you should know better, and that's that.

 

It seems to me that everyone who doesn't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing is under the age of 15. It's tough to do, but listen to those who are older than you. With age and experience comes wisdom.

[Vanilla_Wishing_Starz1607306451]

Okay, for all of you who are so against younger girls dating older guys, my question is why? Saying that the guy is going to take advantage of the girl is just an excuse that doesn't work anymore. Not in these days. Being a 15 year old girl who has dated 18 year olds, I can tell you that young girls know alot more about sex and things then you may think. I consider myself a clean cut person...honor roll student, athlete, goal-oriented...but I have had alot of experience with sexual acts and I'm not ashamed of it. BUT in no situation was I ever pressured into anything...either I wanted it just as much as the guy or I told him to stop and he did. Actually, I felt safer with an older guy than I did with someone my own age, because by then, they have matured past the whole "experimentation" phase. Also, since they have a car and alot more freedom, we could go places to really date, unlike with the guys my age where you couldn't go anywhere so you just made out and got into trouble. I see no problem in the age gap dating...unless the girl is irresponsible or already heading down some destructive paths. And my parents would rather me date older guys also, because they realize that I act more mature when I am around a more mature guy. Don't trash it till ya try it.

[Wildncrazzy4u172]

Okay well my boyfriend is 18.. and I'm 15. Not much difference from you and your girl. It is illegal where I live too. But i see it as you love who you love, and it shouldn't matter how old or young they are.. just like it shouldn't matter if they are taller or shorter than you. I understand what one person said about the emotional difference between a 18 yr old and a 14 yr old, but than again you can't judge someone by how old they are. I'm very mature for my age but thats because of all the things that have happened in my life made me have to grow up, its not that i wanted to. I know people would and do disagree with me, but I would have to say to go for it. If you like the girl and aren't just taking advantage of her, then it should be fine.

 

~Jenn

[Rachelle_19]

I don't know if anyone will ever read this, because there have already been so many posts, but incase someone does.....here's what I have to say.

 

Let's look at this from the opposite point of view.

I supose it happens, but how may girls that are 18 do you think go out with guys that are 14?

 

I don't know about any of you, but I think that sounds weird!

I know I'd never be caught going out with some 15 year old guy (i'm 19)

 

In the end, I think it's wrong...mostly cuz it's illegal.

But what can anybody do about it? not much. do whatever you want

[geyser92]

listen, i really don't think it's all that bad for you to like a 14 year old girl, no matter what other people say. Im in a similar situation, not such a big gap, but it's close. When i asked adults i know about my problem, they all thought it would be ok, and a guy i really look up to and respect told me about his friends son, who at 19 was dating a 13 year old girl. The families of both parties had absolutely no prob with it, because they were familiar with the each of the guys. My advice to you would be to get to know the family of the girl too, so that you don't run into problems. As to the basic idea of it, i think its fine.

[Enigmatic]

Rachelle

 

What you are basically saying is that you are a slave to societal forces and the fact that our society has ingrained into us that men must be older in order to be acceptable is ok with you.

 

Yes it would seem weird for an 18 year old girl to go out with a 14 year old boy... not because it IS weird, but because you have been very neatly programmed by society to see it this way.

 

It isn't a problem with young people, nor is it a concept strictly associated with age-gap relationships.... An older man being with a younger woman is seen in society as being acceptable, while an older woman with a younger man is seen as dispicable for no good reason.

 

Well done Rachelle... the world would be proud of how easy you fell into line and accepted their thousand year old rhetoric.

[Rachelle_19]

alrighty then, and you can say this about me because you know me sooo well...eh? oh, wait a minute.....YOU DON'T KNOW ME AT ALL!

 

thereforeeeeeee what you said about me being programmed and falling inline is very, invalid.

 

thank you very much.

 

nuff said. I'm never going to this section again, so don't waste your breath!