Ricinus communis beans or hypothermia or Potassium chloride

[tiredofvampires]

Jdoe, this morning I just got word that one of my friend's sons committed suicide last night.

 

As I lay reading a book...the planet lost someone who felt that it was for the best they leave.

 

I never met this man, but I have known his parents for about 20 years. And even though I've never met him, and I'm not even her closest friend...I've been walking around in a stupor of disbelief. The world is dark for me and I didn't even take the direct hit. I can feel it...it's in me, this loss, this pain. Something has been taken from me, too.

 

And this is the beginning of a sorrow and despair that will never end for them. I know that nothing I can say to them will really console them, because there is nothing to say when the ugly truth is before you: the child you carried, and then nursed, and gave life to and wanted to see grow into a man, and did....has done such a thing. There is no consolation, no waking from the nightmare daily, nothing but horror to face that you know will never be cured. My friend is a fighter -- she's made it through cancer, going almost blind in one eye and a host of other near-death experiences but she's somehow managed to come out smiling.

 

This time I don't think I'll see her smile again for.....maybe forever.

 

I can tell from your posts that you really do not want to die. You have said that already. SO RE-READ THAT POST. YOU DO NOT WANT TO DIE, JDOE.

 

Can you think of all the pleasurable and wonderful experiences you've had in your life? And not ever getting to feel or experience them again??

 

People don't "just" get happy -- they must make the conditions right for their happiness to grow. And that's what you need to do.

 

Have you told your therapist that you are suicidal?

 

You must do this. Please do it.

[tiredofvampires]

Oh, and also jdoe -- good, that you've started to take anti-depressants. Those take a few weeks to start taking effect. You may or may not be on the right medication, too, so you must give this treatment time and trial and error.

 

I can tell you as a lover of realism myself that you are not being a "realist" here. You are "under the influence" of a whirlwind of emotions that are being propelled by imbalanced chemicals in your brain that make you see your life like this. Chemicals and wrong beliefs about your circumstances, based on learned beliefs that you can unlearn, and replace with other beliefs.

 

A realist will see that those are incredibly stupid reasons to end it.

 

So keep up the medication as well as my other suggestion.

[jdoe]

I am sorry to hear about this boy. Sounds very sad. I am really sorry about his family. Is this boy had a dog?

 

The guilt is killing me. I have to take responsibility for my actions. I can`t stop thinking what I have done. I am afraid I will do it again one day. I feel like I some kind of monster. And I don`t deserve anything that I have. Everyone thinks me for a jerk. And of course I am. These people was important for me the last 2 years, and thats why I care about their opinion.

When I go home after work, I am going to bed. This is at 20:00. Of course I can`t fall a sleep. My mind did not stop to think... I have no power to do whatever. And when I see everyone else how happy is, how he or she laughs I feel so small and miserable. Everyone of the company where is the ex, having fun and goes out. Like never ever happens I don`t exists.

In the morning I don`t want to go to work. When I am at work - I want to go home. When I go home I want to sleep. Each day goes so fast.

I am trying to make something good for me. I am trying to dating, to go to disco. But I am like mummy. I am not the person, who was the last year at this time.

Yes - I really don`t want to die. But I can`t take it any more. I had the life that I want. And now every day is like a torture.

As I understand - I have to take pills about 1-2 year, and after that eventually I will feel good. And what for - 1-2 year after that I will think for suicide again, but there I will do it for sure. So it is better to do it now. It is not necessary to make some other unhappy.

About my mother - I am really sorry for her. But I am a little restful, because my death will looks like natural. Multiple organ failure. She will not have to live with the shame of suicide son.

[iBroken]

jdoe - I hate to break it to you, but they will know that you committed suicide. Multiple organ failure out of no where will cause some red flags. An autopsy will likely be done and likely a toxicology test which will reveal the toxins from the beans.

 

Please reconsider. I agree with TOV that you dont sound like you want to die. You just need to get past this rut. And you will - with time.

[wolfwithin]

Hey Jdoe, I haven't been around a lot lately or I would have spoke up earlier. I am not a happy person right now hearing you talk this nonsense about being a realist but you are not at all. You are being very pessimistic actually. Why don't you see things in a more positive light. If you want a family then spend sometime with your mom some more and let the doctors help you through this time. People will know no matter what you do. And knowing or not isn't going to help your mother.

 

This girl you did everything for is actually the one you want most because really you were always trying to get what you couldn't have. As the good guy myself I have seen it from both sexes on people just using the one that follows them around like they are the greatest thing ever. Odds are the girl you left is a real b.i.t.c.h and you don't need her. You sound like a great guy and you need to remember that before her you were happy right. Now be happy again as Jdoe 2.0 the cooler and better and smarter Jdoe. Believe me we have all been there and we have all thought the same thing but I bet we are all happy we didn't do it.

 

Let me give you some perspective of what is going on in my life right now to show you that you aren't the only one struggling. I have been without a job of any kind for over 3 years and have tried almost everything to get a job and I am actually a great fit for many jobs but for some reason I guess it just isn't meant for me to do that ones I have applied for so far. I have been with my girlfriend for 3 years and she has been living with me for 2 1/2 years. Most of that time I was happy for the most part but she wasn't happy because she was listening to her crappy horrible family that was just lieing to make themselves feel better. She got really depressed because she believed it and wanted us to move away from my family who is helpful to her family with their false promises. I moved for her. I hate every single second I am here. The house we are forced to stay at has holes in the ceilings from problems 8 years ago. The attic use to have birds living in it from a hole in the roof from almost 20 years ago. Everything in the house has something wrong with it. The jobs I was hoping to get up here since there were a lot have all suddenly disappeared. Most of her family is barely 5 minutes away and won't come see her. In fact if we don't go over to them they don't even talk to us. While there they still don't talk to us.

 

If we need help my family is 6 hours away and sadly are the ones we would call if we needed someone today for help. I keep getting emails and phone interviews for jobs that I basically have to annoy just to get that much out of them. They tell me it looks promising and then because the field I was lead to believe was good is all a bunch of 40+ old people that once they find out my age lie to me. I am having to sell a lot of my things just to afford small things like food. My girlfriend is getting worse as far as depression goes because she fell for the lies. I feel lost, abandoned, and over all cursed to just be around.

 

With all that said, I am still actually really positive. I am starting to have fun by knowing that all the companies that don't want to hire me because of my age aren't going to hire anyone because I make sure their hiring ads are taken down. They have no choice but to either hire me or not have anyone. I know a few companies that are starting to feel it to. They also know the second the job comes back up I am on it so there is no way out other then the just hire me, which honestly is to their benefit since I am a great worker. I am constantly having to make my girlfriend happy to get over her horrible family. My family doesn't talk to me much but when they do it still shows they care. I am actually at a point in my life that I am barely a step above homeless right now and I should feel worse then I do but yet I am still keeping my positive attitude.

 

Jdoe honestly that is the best thing you can do for yourself. Get positive that things will get better and will be better. Join a religion of some kind to meet new people. Be open minded about going out alone to clubs or something to meet people. Call up old friends to talk. Get out and go for a walk at a park or two just to relax and enjoy nature for the greatness that it is. Listen to some music and read a book. Get a hobby that keeps you busy. Join a gym and workout. Get a puppy or a kitty. Challenge yourself to better your own life. Live to proof that the girl you gave up everything for is a complete and utter idiot for letting a catch like you go. In fact make yourself so much better that she feels horrible because she missed out and someone else gets the luxury of being with you.

 

Life is hard but it can always get harder. Take life as a challenge and show it that you are no quitter. Suicide isn't an answer to anything it is quitting because you don't want to fight through it. Stand up and take pride in yourself. Get back up from this large fall you have taken and climb your way back up to a better person. I can tell you about all the bad things suicide does to the people you leave behind but you should know it will crush everyone. You are to nice of a person to do that so keep it up. It is time for you to stop being Jdoe 1.0 who is willing to quit before he really tries. No Jdoe 1.0 already died and is no longer here because some harpy monster killed him. Now it is the time for Jdoe 2.0 who laughs at the struggles and ideas of Jdoe 1.0 because he was willing to quit on the most important gift ever. No Jdoe 2.0 is a winner and never quits. He walks tall with confidence because he is a new person not the old. A girl that is nothing means nothing anymore to him. He goes out to meet new people and he see everything from the positive outlook.

 

Suicide is not an answer it is running away from the problem. You need to stop running Jdoe 1.0 and stand tall and proud as Jdoe 2.0. Come on I know it is hard believe me I have been there but that was when I was Wolfwithin 1.0 and again with Wolfwithin 2.0. Am I either one of those now, no never because I am me, myself, and no one else. I am Wolfwithin 3.0 and no matter how bad life gets it is worth living. Once I stopped trying to be 1.0 who just followed along the popular mean crowd, and then once I stopped being 2.0 who was some weird gothic punk who just did things because it made those popular kids upset, was I ever happy. I am Wolfwithin 3.0 and I am happy now no matter what. I smile more because I am truly myself. I don't care if people hate my music, my clothes, my truck, or anything else about me because it is their lose not mine. People won't hire me then they are gaining an enemy who only has one goal of making the company that hires me the best ever and crush that other one. I prove people wrong all the time because they say I can't do something. I stand up and fight to make life worth living. Suicide is what Jdoe 1.0 would do but what you didn't know is he already died. Jdoe 2.0 is taking his place and is going to fight. NOW Jdoe who are you? Come back as Jdoe 2.0 who is willing to fight no matter the hardships, will prove anyone wrong because they said you weren't good enough, and will make those people feel horrible when they see how they missed out on the greatest thing and that is JDOE 2.0.

[Nadleeh]

tiredofvampires and wolfwithin words are absolutely true.

 

Depression to me is one of the most difficult disorders out there to deal with. I despise it and I wish I could get rid of it with medicine but anti-depressants can only do so much. The only true cure to your depression is something that comes from within yourself. You have to be willing to move forward, to fight your fate, and to fight your destiny. I say that, but I know it's hard to do. That's why we're here. You can lean on our shoulders, and use us as your crutches to walk with until you can stand on your own and live your life the way you want to. If you think negative thoughts constantly they're going to most likely come true. You can talk to us about anything and we'll help you find a way to beat those negative feelings and thoughts. I know it's hard to stand up time and time again, but there is a happy life awaiting you. Throw your methods of suicide away, the beans, the hypothermia idea, etc. If you use suicide as your comfort tool it just influences your depression. Don't lose to these feelings, you're better than that and you know it.

 

 

 

I could sit there for days on end, telling you a million reasons to not commit suicide. However, we can only do so much for you, if you truly want to get past it, you have to try, and we will be with you 100% of the way.

 

Don't give up, life may seem cruel and terrible, but it's actually one of the most amazing things you could ever imagine. Keep pushing forward, you can do it.

[tiredofvampires]

Hiya, jdoe...it's been a few days. You there?

 

I am sorry to hear about this boy. Sounds very sad. I am really sorry about his family. Is this boy had a dog?

 

Yes, it's VERY sad. The family is in terrible shock and it's sent out waves into the whole community that knows them. Suicide radiates out like ripples in a pond, hurting people.

So why would you ever let yourself do the same kind of sad thing?

 

I don't know if he had a dog...but he did leave behind a wife and a baby (who had health problems from birth).

 

But I'm curious that you ask...do you have a dog? Or any pets?

 

To echo what the other posters have said, there is no way your mother (and everyone else) is going to not know it was a suicide. They WILL know. (Not that your being dead by "natural causes" wouldn't already be horrific for her.) And as iBroken has said, they will do an autopsy on your body and find the poison that killed you, so they'll know about these beans. Having done a little research into death by ricin, the toxin in these beans, it is also quite likely that you won't die right away -- it could be a slow, lingering, terribly painful death taking place over a few days.

 

I want you to think about something, jdoe -- look at all the people who care for you even though we live countries apart and have never seen your face, nor have you seen ours. Look at all the posters who are fighting along with you because they can see you're a good, decent guy who deserves to find his grip on life and stay alive to know it doesn't have to be this way. Look at all the people who have read your thread because they are interested in your story -- over a thousand strong.

 

This means that in this world, people can and DO care about you, and that this is only a small picture of what can happen in your real life. You deserve love and for people to care for you -- you just have to find the right people. If you find the wrong people, that should not determine whether you live or die. That should mean you learn who is healthy for your life and who is not. But anyone can see here that you are a good soul.

 

So why don't you make a few people happy here -- and go throw those beans away, toss them over a high cliff. Stand somewhere that you can throw them hard, and when you do, say to yourself, "I am committed to you. I want to work this out" -- meaning yourself. The way you'd say it to someone you are in love with, but fight with. Then come back here and tell us you got rid of them.

 

Of course, though, it's not about making other people happy in the end. It's about seeing that you have as much reason to be here as anyone else and taking a stand about that. I know you don't believe it, but I have found that sometimes even if I don't believe something, if I feel it would be a good thing to believe in the future, I leave open the possibility that it might well be true. And that is good enough for a start.

 

In the meantime, while you're on the way to discovering that truth, you have to start creating more opportunity for that to grow. As I said before. You said something very significant here: you said you don't have any dreams. This is an important clue as to why you are not happy. You don't have to be some world famous scientist or poet or world leader with huge ambitions to have dreams of your own. What this means is searching for the things you like to do, and making those things play a bigger and bigger part of your life. For example, do you like making things with your hands? If so, can you start to plan projects that would be a fun task to do, maybe even you have enough talent to see if a few people you know might want to buy them? It could even start with something small in your life -- do you like to cook? Well, maybe you like to cook enough that you could go back to school and learn to be a chef. Or just find something that gives you a peaceful feeling. Like planting seeds in a small plot of earth and watching the plants grow. Anyone can create dreams, they don't have to be to save the world, but they start with things you like and you build them from there. I get the feeling that you have spent almost no time kindling your own fire within, and instead you look for all the warmth from others. Have you even spent time saying, "What do I love to do, and can I do more of it until I am absolutely passionately good at this? What do I really love?" There is NO ONE who has NOTHING they are good at -- so what things do you like to do, jdoe? What excites you? Have you and your therapist talked about doing things like this? Because this is a very important part of finding that life has some jewels for you. Understanding yourself is an important part of therapy, but so is exploring doing things you can create some dreams out of.

 

The reason you feel numb, like a mummy, when you go out, is that you're trying to find happiness in the same old places you used to. You need to find different ones. New ones. Going to the disco is good entertainment, but that is all it is, it's not a way to be HAPPY. It's not a good thing to go now, when it reminds you of certain hurts, and you feel the only thing that can make you happy is getting another girlfriend. You know, the way to stay unhappy is to base your happiness on trying to find someone to love you and shopping around for that. That's like you're starving and going around with a begging bowl -- and what if no one has any to offer you? Then you're stuck, and starving. So don't go to places that make you feel like you're a beggar -- go to places where you can do something of your own to enjoy your talents and skills which you might develop more. Then you will find people who like those things too, and you'll make friends and you'll have much better quality friends than people you're just trying to impress at a disco. Those places are a trap for feeling lonely and like you should be partying -- you don't need that now.

 

Now, here are some places where your logic is all wrong:

 

The guilt is killing me. I have to take responsibility for my actions. I can`t stop thinking what I have done. I am afraid I will do it again one day.

 

So what you are saying is that because you feel guilty, you are going to do something which will hurt people 10,000 times more than this? Does that make any sense?

 

And what you are saying is that because you yelled at someone and got angry, you should execute yourself? If everyone who yelled at people or got angry executed themselves, our world would be down to about 3 people, total population.

 

You are not just some wild animal out of control. You have the ability to control your actions, and that's the way to deal with things you want to improve. I wonder if you believe that a person can learn to change their behavior? If yes, then why not you? This is not a death sentence, and guilt is a worthless emotion past a certain point. Guilt is okay at first, to know you did something wrong if you lashed out at someone. And then it's just cruel and punishing. You don't deserve punishment, you need to just know you're not perfect and to keep examining all the ways to get better at the art of living. WE ALL have to work on this, every single one of us. Do you believe it is a good thing to work on?

 

As I understand - I have to take pills about 1-2 year, and after that eventually I will feel good. And what for - 1-2 year after that I will think for suicide again

 

Okay, does this make sense? What if for 1-2 years you are on medication and then you feel good, as you said. Then why would you want to kill yourself again? By the time two years goes by, EVERYTHING you know now will have changed. You will be a different person then. You are making the mistake of thinking that life just continues like a recipe that's made the same way day in and day out. The recipe of your life changes all the time, and in two years, the ingredients will all be different. You will be a different "dish." And by the time you feel better with the medications helping you see more hope and having less depression, you will better be able to find ways of coping, and ways of feeling good about yourself that will continue from there. This is like giving a car a push, and then it starts to roll on its own, so there is no reason to assume that you'll be back to the way you feel now. You are just making up a fairy tale in your head that ends badly, but it's no more than a fairy tale. It's blank pages in a book that you're writing in your mind, when in fact life itself will be nothing like these assumptions and projections you're making. Life hasn't even turned those pages yet. Once you feel your feet planted more firmly in the ground, and all the people in your life today and your friends are changed like a new hand of cards in a card game...suicide will not be an option in your mind at that time. So don't fast forward the movie to a tragic ending that doesn't even exist today. It doesn't make sense that once you feel good, you will want to end it all again.

 

On that note, I'd like to touch on what wolfwithin said, which is related. This is very profound and true:

 

No Jdoe 1.0 already died and is no longer here because some harpy monster killed him.

 

It is good to realize that we are dead to our old lives in every day we live. The jdoe you were yesterday is dead. That seems hard to really believe, but it's true. The cells in your stomach are all new in 5 days. Your skin has been replaced in a week. Your blood, every 4 months. Your liver, 5 months. And after a few years, you have a brand new skeleton. So you see, NATURE LOVES TO KEEP CHANGING AND MAKING THINGS BRAND NEW. That is a natural law!! You get a new you every day, quite literally, and the old one becomes just a thought in your mind.

 

Your mind is what keeps you thinking that you will always be this way, but the facts on the ground show you that in every moment, you are dying and being reborn into the next you. Your body and your life give you a new slate every week -- every day, and every hour of every day.

 

In any given moment, you can say, "I am changing" and it would be completely true. Your mind is even more fluid than your blood. Don't be a slave to the idea that a habit of mind is forever, when even your bones are giving themselves another chance as you read this.

[jdoe]

Hello again guys. Thanks a lot for the worm words

I just come back from my home

 

-

 

I don't know if he had a dog...but he did leave behind a wife and a baby (who had health problems from birth).

 

I am asking about the dog, because recently I med a guy in one side, who wanted to commit suicide. He is 20 and has a loving dog. He was very emotional and sounded very sad. We exchanged two email messages. But I did not hear anything from hem about 1 week.

 

--

 

You all are right. All you say is true. But for me - this all is happening for a second time. I had a fiancee, who lived with in 2 years. She loves me very much. At one time in our joint live, I changed to bad. I was very nervous. After we broke up I spend 2-3 years to change myself. I worked on me a lot. I thought I become a new man - good and decent. Then I med the ex. A loved her so much. Two months after we starts our relation ship - I was the same ugly guy. I began her jealous. I became unbearable. Well the ex gives me reasons, but she doesn`t deserve such attitude. Thats why I as sure that one day it will happen again. I can`t have a good relation ship, because I have too many problems and complexes. Obviously it is impossible for me to be happy. Thats why it is better to end it now.

 

I forgot - about my therapist - I stopped seeing her. I feel so stupid, because - after 3 months seeing her - I am in my worst condition. And this is not her fault. She really tried to help me.

[tiredofvampires]

joe --

 

3 months is NOT enough to get anywhere with therapy. You have been struggling with this set of "complexes" for how long? Probably since you were a little boy?

 

Well, you JUST STARTED therapy and anti-depressants. Please, please give these a chance. Put this plan off for now. Just go back to your therapist and tell her you feel you're beyond help and you're having these thoughts. She needs to know how bad this is for you, and you know why?

 

Because:

 

I really don`t want to die.

 

It doesn't matter if you've had two relationships not work out, you know why? Because you are getting professional help and for the first time are taking medications which will take weeks to take effect.

 

You need to learn much more about what makes you act in ways you don't like and this is a real project. You are not a bad person, a bad man, joe. You just are acting out some things that are bottled up from childhood. I suspect this has something to do with your father. Just a feeling I get. Without knowing you. Chances are, he was not a very good example of a man and you are carrying some of that in your deep unconscious mind. But YOU, joe, want to be good. And you would not feel so guilty if you weren't good.

 

Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better, joe. This might be the "worse" before it gets better.

 

And forget relationships for now. They are a part of life, but many people choose not to have them until a better time, so you don't NEED a relationship now (and in fact you don't ever NEED one, so you can choose to do other things in your life like many of my friends who don't want all the work and mess of a relationship and they do other things they prefer). It's not a necessity to prove yourself now this way -- there are many things for you to focus on right now. So just put the whole love life thing on hold for as long as you need.

 

You say we are all right. So if we are right, and we are talking to you, it means we are right about YOU. Not just any person -- YOU.

 

Call your therapist and tell her that you are worse off than you were. Chances are you have been trying to impress her as well and be a good patient. You have been minding your manners and keeping the worst things to yourself because maybe you fear the things you'll say. Well this is not a time for kidding around and chatting about little things, this is time for your being honest with her. Three months is NOTHING yet -- I've been in therapy for over 10 years and I've grown during this time.

 

Your state of mind is not permanent.

 

Do not do something permanent.

 

You can undo years of damage just like millions of people do. You are not the only one who has a totally screwed up past and they change. You are not some alien from Mars. You are a human being like everyone else, and many terrible things happen to other human beings they think they will not get over, but they do. So can you.

 

The only thing you cannot undo is death.

 

Again, it doesn't matter even if this is the second time. You're very young, so you don't have enough experience with learning how to be in a relationship yet.

 

Don't do this joe, KEEP USING THE CRUTCHES YOU HAVE NOW UNTIL YOU CAN WALK.

 

Buy yourself some time. Dig deep and be a strong man.

 

A strong man stays alive.

[tiredofvampires]

One other thing I'd like to you to consider, joe:

 

If you had a crystal ball to see into the future, and see into the time after you've commited suicide, and could see that your mother had lost her will to live because she feels she failed her son, would you go back to now and UNDO IT? Would you decide not to do it if this is what you saw?

[wolfwithin]

Jdoe well you should have told me that you tried to change before. Jdoe 2.0 didn't take and went back to Jdoe 1.0. Trust me as a twice remade person I can tell you it is so easy to fall back to that first unhealthy person. But lucky for you, you have a resource I never had, enotalone is your ultimate resource for things trust me. I use it to get over things and help people and sometimes ask for help. My life isn't perfect and in fact is kind of getting worse and normally that would send me back to my old self where I try to mimic people to fit in and do what ever it takes to get people to like me except what I should be doing which is be who I truly am.

 

Life isn't perfect and you have made mistakes but you didn't learn from them is the problem. Go back to your therapist and tell her what is wrong and find the problems. Why do you keep going back to this jealous mean person? Tell us why you do and we can help. We are no where near the one on one help you need from the therapist but we can help on small things. Trust me it is all about moving forward not back. If you have trust issues then why do you have them? If you have anger issues then why are you angry? If you have any kind of issue you have to ask why you have it. I have anger issues because I bottle things up till I explode normally on small things but I work hard on keeping it in check. I have plenty of other issues that I have to all the time work on so I keep the self I like. You just need to find the self you like and make sure that the old self you hate is kept in check.

 

When you start feeling something coming back come here and tell us about it. Tell us why you feel that way. Tell us when it started. Sometimes just putting it out for others to read helps. It always helps to have people come in and say you are being stupid for thinking that since your girlfriend isn't with you 24 hours a day that she is being unfaithful. Sometimes it helps to have people tell you that your are overreacting and being mad over something small is just dumb. Also you haven't tried hard enough. You need to take all the demons of your past and face them one by one till they are behind you.

 

Tell me why you have jealousy issues or anger issues. When do you have them? Do you drink at all? If you do then stop because it makes you feel worse. It is time to be proactive on yourself and show the demons of your past that you are stronger then ever. Prove not only to your past but to your future that you are willing to fight. Take all the mistakes and make them positives. You will be happy again and you will be better. But the fact that you aren't working all the time for it, you go back to this old self because it is easier which makes you unhappy. Stop and fight. Go join a religion where you can talk to a pastor, priest, rabbi, or any of the other religious leaders out there that I don't remember the name of right now. Tell you mom how you feel and that you need help because you keep falling back to this old self.

 

It isn't time for you to go yet because you are needed for something better. Believe me all the things of the past are just scars of our souls that make us better people. I have done things that hurt myself but in the end it made me a better and stronger person. It is time to pick you yourself and move forward as a stronger and better person. Stop being the old Jdoe 1.0 or Jdoe 2.0 which you are now. 3.0 is a better model and is happy and fights when things start moving toward the negative jealous mean Jdoe of old. No now you are getting better and wanting to quit is the oldself trying to save itself. Why would you let that side win? It isn't the good side and good has to win. It is time to fight not to lay down.

 

You want to be miserable because you think you have to be but the truth is you don't need to be at all. In fact you will be happy and you will be a better person and you will fight. How do I know this? Because you said yourself, YOU DON'T WANT TO DIE, let me repeat that in case you missed it, YOU DON'T WANT TO DIE, YOU DON'T WANT TO DIE, YOU DON'T WANT TO DIE.

 

I would say if you can move to a new place away from your old life. I know it is expensive and everything but you need to get away from all the negative things you keep putting yourself through. If you can't then you need to stop trying to get your old life back because that is a scar you have to take and move on. It is a battle lost but the war isn't over yet. Take the scar and learn from it. Go get a tattoo of something symbolic that will show that you are moving on from your old life to a new life. I say this because when I was in high school I was going to join the US Marine Corps but sadly things didn't work out for me on that. But my recruiter told me a story of when he was 16. He had a drug and drinking problem. He had an attitude problem, and he almost killed his girlfriend when he got angry because he thought she was cheating on him. He then showed his wrists where we could see scars, where he had tried to kill himself for doing what he did. At 17 he was at school when a Marine walked by and saw he was down. The Marine did something no one else would or wanted to do and actually talked with him. He sat there and talked for hours and in the end my recruiter said that all he could think about was repaying the man that just helped him.

 

So he asked the man why he did that and the man showed him a set of dog tags. The man said it was his brothers. His brother was on his way to being a Marine but because the man had done something stupid his brother had to come home to watch over him. On the way home his brother died in a car crash. The man then vowed to honor is brother. So the man joined the Marines and carries his brothers dog tags to remind himself that his old life is and forever was over. The man started to leave and stopped, gave my recruiter a brochure and said to think about it and if it wasn't for him then to pass it on to a friend. My recruiter went and got his dad to give him permission to get two things. The first was permission to join the Marines early, and the second was a tattoo of some dog tags with the mans brother's name on them on his wrists. That way anytime he felt himself want to go drink again or do drugs or when ever he was angry he could look down and see the dog tags and the scars of his old life that way he would always be reminded that he was a new man a better man.

 

I still think had he not gotten transferred a few months after my signing up that today I would be a Marine. He understood me so much better then the other recruiters and he always listened when I need to talk or I had a concern. It could be 4 in the morning and I knew if I called him that he would be pissed but at the same time would sit there and listen. I will never forget him because it was him that really got through to me that made me a different and better person. We all like to think we can change and be better on our own but the truth is, we need people to help us. We need people to show us that we are not alone and that our problems can be worked through. We can be better and no matter what there are always people around us that can help and make us better. So choose right now to fight and to live and be a better person. We are here to help and there are those around you who will help as well. Go back to your therapist and get help. Tell your mom, tell a friend or someone else that will help you. Trust me they are out there to help you.

[jdoe]

I can`t believe that there are people who do not know me and want to help me. I really appreciate this. Thanks to all you.

 

After all the talks with my therapist I may realize all my problems. Many of them I knew before. But my strategy for fix them was wrong. I thought if I have a girlfriend to love she will be the reason to fix them. But the ex wanted some calm and decent man. I was that at the beginning.

OK, before this, I may have to tell some thing about me and my childhood.

I was born in a not very rich family - maybe in the middle class. We haven`t money, but I never asked for more. I grew up as a modest and sensitive person. Not violence and calm. I learned my lessons in school, played with friends. I tried to make myself resistible to the poorness in my family.

Well, all my problems maybe are because of my sister. She is 5 years older than me. We fight all the time. She always tried to control me, even now. What ever I done - she commented it. I was ignored from my mom because my sister. I was happy when my sister go to college. I was alone in my room and there wasn`t any body to insult me. But my sister comes for 2-3 days each month. These days we have fight all the time. I thought she hates me. Of course a told her ugly words, but never damn her (she did it to me - sometimes she says "I hope you die").

Anyway. I chose a profession that is well paid - a software developer. This was my dream for a long time. When I go to college I was so happy that I will be independent. At this time I had a girlfriend from 1 year. We broke an year later, and now we are very good friends - she cheats me but I know that we was little.

When I was at college I did not have a work. My parents helped me with money. At my third year in the college I med a girl. For her this a love at first sight I am not sure about me, but I really loved her. Five days after we med, we begin to live together. Well we haven`t very money and it was very difficult for both of us.

We was young. She wanted a child. She wanted this so much... I wasn`t ready. Maybe this starts to make her so anger. She talks a lot for her ex. I hated this.

Imagine this: we are watching movie, and suddenly she says "He arrives after 2 days". I was shocked. I tried to stay calm, but this continue to happens. We begin to fight every week. I knew she loves me, she knew the same. But I already was the mean jdoe.

Well we continue to live together. We talked a lot for the future. We talked about our marriage. And one day I propose her Well it wasn`t very romantic. I imagined the proposal as very special, but I was scared to do it that way. I propose her very simple and maybe very silly.

My jealousy issue come few months after that. We was at a camp with many children. And she cheats me with one 16 boy. I was in the next room. But this happen only because of me. I already had... lets name it - the feel I am neglected. We fight almost every day at this camp. I and was the freak, who yelled to her in-front other people.

Well, we tried to continue, but everything was broken. We wasn`t able to fix it.

Anyway. We broke up when I started my last year in the collage. I was homeless and very alone. I did not know what to do with my life. I rent a room to live there. With the above girl - we had several meetings. I tried to tell her I will change - well this is almost impossible. I had very miserable life for about an year. I wasn`t able to smile. I had a girl friend (we was just friends). We talked a lot. She really helped me. I just took a job as a programmer. But I almost all the time felt terrible.

Anyway. I wasn`t able to move on. I ran away to another city. I began my live from zero. After 5-6 month we began to talk again with this girl. We med. And we was together again. I thought every thing will be fine this time. But she began to flirt with my best friend. This unlock my jealousy issue again. We was together just for 2 months. Two months after that she was pregnant and she get married - good for her. This was what she wants. Now we are friends. I have no problems to talk with her.

Anyway. Little after we broke up I med the ex - the girl because of I write this now. I was in love with her for about year and a half. Every thing what I have done was because of her. I tried to impress her. To see that I am not some bad guy, to see that I may not have many money, but one day I will. I bought an expensive car because of her. Every one my thought was because of her.

And one day it happen. I was with her. I wasn`t able to believe it. She told me so many things about her, about her family ( she has a father issue, who ever beat her ). I tried to give her all my attention and goodness. She wasn`t in love with me.

About her past - she was with many, many guys. Many of them for one night. She had one long relation ship, and this guy even now attract her. He was mean to her. He cheats her a lot. But maybe he was her ideal for a man. He is criminal, good looking and rich. He was very big threat for me. She knew that. But she wanted to see him a lot. One day I heart this conversation. He: We will go to the sea this year, right. She: Yes. He: But you have to make sex with me. She: Well, yes. This was strike one for me.

Before this conversation there was 2 or 3 other strikes.

The first was month after we began our relation ship. At this time I thought I have a change to make her love me. One Saturday I wasn`t able to meet her. She told me that, she waited the whole day and did not make any appointments with other. She yelled to me not because we wasn`t see, but because of me she did not goes out with anybody. I felt stupid, but I did not reacted. On the next day she came home. We talked about this and she promised to go out later just both of us. 2-3 hours after that she made appointment with my roommate and her best girl friend. I felt very stupid. She phoned me, and I did not answer her. I went to bed. On the next day I realize, that the last night she sms one of her ex boyfriend. She was drunk in one disco and called him to join. He did not came. He invited her to his home to watch movie. Her words was "If I come in your home, we will make sex, but I am sic now". She was sic - some vaginal fungus. They continue to talks a lot for the next few months. I don`t know if they made sex.

Anyway. I told myself, that I will forget this, if she shows me, that she loves me. But I already started my ugly behavior. I was always diwane and in bad mood. I told myself "If she says -"I really like you and really appreciate you. Stop acting like a freak"- I will stop to be the mean jdoe and I will show her how much I love her". I was scared to give her a flower. She though I am not a romantic person.

Anyway. There was one more big strike, I want to tell you. One day I saw what she was wrote to other ex boyfriend. "The last night I dreamed you. I am thinking of you a lot." She has a conversation with her girl friend and the girlfriend asked my ex about me if I loved her. The answer was "Offf, hem. Yeah, he loves me. It is nice to be in love, ha-ha I wanted too". I felt terrible. I tried to not give attention to all of this. I wanted to have a good relationship. I tried to talk with her. But I just needed a little more patience.

There is one more strike. One night we went on dinner. I asked is she want to came in my place. She said No. OK, no problem - some other day. The same night she told me, that she will go to bed. She did not go to bed, she went on coffee with a friend.

She never sais anything. She never asked me how I am. I was in bad time when I had to change my job. She did not supports me. She fight with her girl friend about one the ex boyfriends. The same night we was on disco. I was again diwane all the night. The ex did not asked me anything. Her best girlfriend tried to say me, that my ex loves me. But I don`t want to hear this from the friend. I wanted to hear this from my girlfriend. After that night my ex wanted to broke up. Well - we med, and I told her how I feel. Why I am always in bad mood. I did not tell her all what I knew. but I tried to show her, that I really love her and her attitude did not helps me. Well, we did not broke up then. I really tried to not get anger or diwane for some stupid reasons. We went to my home to meet my parents. There was my sister too with her boyfriend. This was a great mistake for me.

I was totaly ignored by my parents because my sister. My mother even did not remember the name of my ex. I started to act ugly to my parents, because their behavior insults me and my girlfriend. As I said - I am from a poor family and our apartment is small. I felt so embarest. I wasn`t able to give anything to my girlfriend. I did not have anything that will make her proud with me.

After the visit in my parents, I felt that my ex is changed. She talks a little strange.

One Saturday we have an appointment. I was always happy and enthusiastic when I drive to her place. This night I had a car accident. One woman stops in my car. She broke my door, and I wasn`t able to drive this car for a while.

One night my ex wanted to go on theater with her mother and one her girlfriend. The ex said me, that she will on dinner. All this made me fell some thing is wrong.

On the next day she wanted to go on coffee. We med. We talked. I wanted to talk about us. And everything was alright. I told about my fears. She told me, that she has no problems with me. I was happy to know that she likes me. This happen in Thursday. On the next day I wanted to see her so much. She was tied from work. Ok, no problem. I will see her on the next day. The next day (Saturday) we couldn`t see, because the whether. The same night the group of friends has a reservation in one club. My ex did not wanted to came home before the club. She wanted to go with her girlfriend to see some guy. Ok, no problem - I will be with her later. I go to the club. I wanted to kiss her, but she did not allowed me because her lipstick. Ok - the night is in front of us. We had bad table and everyone pushes me. I tried to be in a good mood. I talked to every one with a smile. I wanted to show everyone, that I can be the old good and happy jdoe. With the company was the best girlfriend of my ex. This friend was with boy. This boy always make uncomfortable scenes. He began one, and my ex go on the opposite site of the table. She stayed there for a long time. Just sitting and not doing anything. After one hour she saw I was nervous. She comes to me and I said "So, now it is my turn?" She got angry. I realized what I done. I tried to apologize to her, but she did not wanted to hear me. She told me to go to hell. I made second try to apologize, she said the same. This freaked me out.I yelled to her, yelled to my roommate, yelled to the girl friend of my ex. I yelled to my ex to stop acting like a strong woman. After I realize what I have done, I told to my ex that I am sorry. I told her that I love her and I went out. I gone home and I wasn`t able to stop thinking what I have done. I couldn`t sleep for over 40 hours. This wasn`t me. This was some person, who I have never seen...

Because of this night we broke up. She told me on the phone, that she did not want to see me anymore.

Three weeks after that I wanted to see her and told her what happen. She did not accept my story. She says, that I was her ideal for a man. I told her, that she never tried to show me such thing. She said, that she hasn`t anything to apologize for this relationship and she doesn`t do anything wrong.

The bad truth is that, she is right. She doesn`t do anything wrong. I wanted she to love me. I want it so much, that I lost my self. I began to look for a sign of love in every her act. I began to prowl her conversations. I wanted to see how she says something good for me but this never happen. I knew that my behavior will crash this relationship, but I wanted to know she loves me. I think, that this all starts, after the night when she called her ex to the disco.

Well, this is my story. I am not sure if you understand everything I wrote.

 

Few weeks after we broke up, I grab one knife and I made 6 cuts to my arm - one for every month when the ex was with me. I wanted to not forget what I have done.

There was people who tells me that I am overreacting. But I wanted to hear this from my ex.

Maybe the main problem in our relationship was my roommate. He is very good friend of the ex. In facebook they relationship status is "in relationship with....". This wasn`t problem for me. The problem was, that every one asked me, who is the boyfriend of my ex. Even my roommate made jokes about me. When we go to disco - she danced with hem, like I am nobody. Many of her friends did not knew, she has a boyfriend, especially her ex boyfriends. For a while this wasn`t problem for me.

The thing that kills me is that, everything was because of me. She tried to be better woman for me. I did not gave her a chance. She needed more patience. She likes me, but she did not respects me.

I don`t want to go to my therapist, because I don`t want to talk of this any more. I thought that if I go to therapist, she/he will make me feel better. Well - nothing will change if I did not do any thing.

 

The result of my past is that: I am unable to have good relationship. I just make the people unhappy. I cant spend more years fighting for lost cause...

[wolfwithin]

Jdoe thank you so much for telling us that. The ex that you are pining over, guess what, it is her fault and her fault alone. She likely cheated on you a lot and it sounds like she wanted you to just be ok with it. She is a total harpy that is just out to devour men and ruin get gifts and money. That is all she wants is money. You did nothing wrong ok. Trust me. I have seen it a million times.

 

Your fiance cheated as well which gives you trust issues. You feel like you are worthless because of your sister. You feel like everything is your fault but it isn't. This actually is quite easy to fix if you just try. Anger, Jealousy, and everything else is easy to fix. First off the second they cheat you need to drop them. You will never trust them ever again. You will always be paranoid that they are doing it again. If they have the urges to cheat but don't that is one thing because they didn't but because it sounds like both did then you are with the wrong girls. She didn't try to be a better woman at all. In fact she didn't try to have a relationship at all. You are the one that she can dump everything on but really it is all her. You blowing up and yelling is actually normal.

 

You are a loyal wolf ok. As a loyal wolf you want to be around others. You want to be loved by others. You also are not an Alpha wolf so you will try to change to someone you are not just to be with the others. Well guess what. You have been beaten and lied to by all the people you thought where wolves but guess what they were not wolves. Sometimes it takes a different set of eyes to see the truth. You can now know that you are no where near at fault and it was all them. Now you can actually take a breath and take that false burden you put on yourself and throw it off. It is time to be a proud Alpha wolf that doesn't change for others at all. They are loyal to the pack that forms around them. They are loved because of who they are not because they are willing to change to fit.

 

Here is step one of getting over your ex, any pictures that you have of her burn them. Step two anything that she got you that are in anyway special burn it. Why because she was not a good person and you are. You are actually showing that you are a good guy by feeling like this after being with that harpy. Congrats you are not mean, you are not really jealous, and you are not, I repeat, NOT a bad person. Do you have issues yes but everyone does. Get help to control those issues but just remember you are not jealous because you have a right to think she is cheating because I would bet everything I own that she did. You are not mean because you tried to change things and be better but were really thrown aside and kicked when you were down. You are not a bad person you just need to stop trying to be friends with people who only want you to change to fit the group.

 

Jdoe if you kill yourself for that harpy, I am going to very disappointed. You are a great guy and trust me I know this for a fact. I know this because you sound like a few of my friends who just had horrible women in their lives. It is time to say I am Jdoe and I will be myself. I will fight through this depression that some horrible women put me through and I blamed the wrong person, myself. It has never been my fault but theirs and I am not this monster I believe myself to be. I am a great guy and thousands of people I have never met know this because even though most don't speak, they check in on me to make sure I am alive every week. Thousands of people want me to live and the ones that do say anything are the kinds of people I should have in my life because they like me for me. It is time for me to stop feeling like everything in the world is my fault and to accept that I am not a monster but a great guy with horrible friends.

 

I had friends just like yours and honestly it isn't worth it. You were never happy with them because you were not you. They only liked you if you changed for them and did everything for them. It is time for you to say I am myself and there is only one of me. I am unique and if those people don't want to be with me then I am fine with that because I will find plenty to want to be my friends. I will find a girl that doesn't cheat and will want to be with me even if I am poor. Money doesn't bring happiness and neither do objects. It is all about who you are and finding people who like you for you. Start being Jdoe and stop being Eodj because Eodj is not Jdoe ok and Jdoe is actually a cool and nice person. Eodj is a jerk and hangs out with jerks and goes out with evil harpies. Jdoe doesn't because there is only one. Start being yourself for once and not change for them. They aren't changing for you and in fact are using you.

 

You are not a person that stands around asking to be used. You are a person trying to change to fit into a puzzle that you are not apart of. Be yourself and be an Alpha wolf. Don't change for the group. Don't change for a girl because she should like you for being you. In fact the only thing you should change are when to be angry, when to see the signs of when things are going wrong, and when to jump ship when it obviously is sinking. Jdoe I am going to say this on more time, IT IS 10000000000% HER, HER, HER, HER, HER, HER FAULT, NOT YOURS. Trust me on that.

[jdoe]

Thanks again for supporting me

About the girl - she wan`t mercantile. She may not cheated on me, but she would do it one day if your relation ship wasn`t ended.

I went to 3 therapist. I don`t want to go anymore, because every one of them said that, it all was her fault. Nobody can convince me on that. She started this relation ship with one guy, and one month after that this guy was gone. She really tried to be better. Maybe I was her firewall, and she wasn`t ready for serious relationship, but I did not gave her the needed patience.

The problem is that now I want to see her. I want to kiss her. I want to embrace her. In my mind she is like an angel. And always was it. But because of my complexes I forgot this sometimes. I am unable to remember bad memories. I remember only the good. I really miss her.

Now I am the mean person for all of the group.

 

I trashed everything from the ex a long time ago. I can`t run away, because I did this before. And here I am again - on the same position. I must face on this, but I have no power to do it. There is no body to support me except all of you

 

Now I am trying to convince myself to suicide. My body don`t want it, my instincts don`t want it, but my mind want it. This is the only way to stop the pain and guilt. I am telling myself, that this is the way to show every one how much they hurted me - this is so wrong. But I am sure that one day all above will happen and I will be in this position again.

[wolfwithin]

Jdoe listen to me it is her fault. You want it to be your fault because you have made her out to be this perfect person when really she is a harpy, a *itch, and doesn't deserve anyone as good as you are. Stop trying to blame yourself for everything when it is your fault. The reason the therapists are saying that it is her fault is because it is. You are a nice guy who has made this woman who is likely hotter then you think you deserve and because of that no matter what she does it is your fault. But let me tell you a secret it is her fault. She does this to every guy she meets because guys keep doing it. She is a monster that you made into an this goddess when she is not. Trust me on this ok.

 

She did cheat and you are trying to now say she wasn't because that would taint this angelic view that you and you alone put on her. She is the problem not you. It was her and by blaming yourself she still is this thing that she really isn't. She is a demon that uses guys like you and makes you feel worse when really she didn't do anything. She never changed, you did, she never was in the relationship, you were, and she likely had more boyfriends, you only had her. You need to understand this. She was using you to make herself feel better. She is likely a horrible person but since she is likely hot she gets by with just that. Let yourself see what was on her inside which is a horrible demon monster that eats men for breakfast. Don't let this satanic pawn send you where you don't want to go. This is your life test and you need to pass it.

 

That is fine if it is just us here to support you. That is why many of us come here is to help others. Stand proud to know that people who have never met are willing to fight so hard to keep you alive. Just think about that will you. Last I looked there was almost 1,500 people watching and hoping to see you come on here and say the words that I AM GOING TO LIVE AND FIGHT TO BE A BETTER PERSON AND I KNOW IT WAS HER NOT ME. I WILL LIVE AND BE HAPPY AND SUICIDE IS A STUPID IDEA THAT WILL NEVER CROSS MY MIND EVER AGAIN. I know I am hoping for that and I know they are too.

 

Stop trying to convince yourself of suicide when you don't really want to die. Show yourself the truth that what you thought was an angel was a demon here to force you to fail the test of life. This pain and guilt is brought on by yourself. She doesn't care at all because she has never cared about you. She should feel guilty for using you but she doesn't because she is a demon. This is like the Greek tale of the sirens. They had such a beautiful voice and to sailors they were angels and as they sang their songs sailors sailed to them. Only to be killed by running into the sirens island. This is what the girl you are feeling so guilty about is. Trust me.

 

I have had friends like her when I thought that is what I wanted to be with. I was wrong and now I don't look on the outside of any woman. The outside is like the siding on a house. It can be absolutely beautiful on the outside but on the inside it have holes in the ceiling, leaking pipes, a broken ac, the carpet is seafoam green, the tile floors are bright pink, the kitchen is moldy and has no stove. Do you still want that house? NO you don't. This is what you think this girl is because likely on the outside she is the perfect house. On the inside you just want to really take a shower after you leave.

 

Jdoe you need to admit that it is her fault because it is. Stop being guilty over something that was going to happen no matter what you did. It is time for you to walk out of the darkness and see the light. The light says she is a demon in the guise of an angel. The light says the her perfect manner is only seen by her victims who do anything to be with her. The light says that you are one of the many guys to think that he did something but really you didn't do anything wrong. Stand tall and shout at yourself that it isn't your fault and she is not this angel that you made her out to be.

 

Go back to your therapist and apologize for thinking they were wrong because they said it was her fault and it was. They have been right and you know it but you don't want to see it because you want to blame yourself. Stop it. It isn't your fault and never was. She cheated and you need to see that, she never tried to change for you and you need to see that, and she does this to every guy she meets and you need to see that as well. You are a great guy and you need to stop going for the women the look great on the outside but are demons on the inside.

 

The feelings you are having are false and most of your body knows it that is why you are here. You are asking for help and you want help. You want to live and you to be happy. But there is this dark side you listen to that is giving you these false feelings of guilt and lust for her, that no matter what she was perfect, and that it was all you. Honestly if you were right in front of me I would shake you till that dark side of your brain stopped doing that. Listen to your body and it wants to live. It wants you to get over this harpy. It wants you to get over these feelings you are putting on yourself. It wants you to get help and fight. It wants you to be this happy person that you were till you met these girls. If you have not picked up on that yet you should. If they were these perfect angels you want them to be then why were you unhappy? Why were you trying so hard to be with them? Why were you changing so much?

 

Angels don't make you change from happy to unhappy, they enhance your life to a point where even when things go wrong it is ok because they are there. They will want to be around you for you with out you changing. They will want to help you in every way and they will not stand by and watch as you turn down a darker path. I know this because I have my own angel who many have said she wasn't cute to begin with but it only takes 5 minutes with her to see the true angel inside that suddenly radiates outward to this beauty that makes me smile every time I see her. You will find your true angel once you stop being someone else and start being yourself. Don't like music because she does, don't like sports because she does, and don't like things just because she does. I am not a huge art fan but my girlfriend loves art. I will go to a museum but I won't even try to understand why things are art. I am all about sports and she is not. She will watch a game and even listen when I try to tell her things but she won't pretend to understand.

 

I love her for her and she loves me for me. You will find this angel I promise you once you start liking yourself and being yourself. There is the saying that opposites attract and it is so true. Being to much in common leads to boredom and that leads to bad things. Instead have a few things in common and a lot of opposites. There is only 1 Jdoe and it is time for Jdoe to come out and play. Stop being someone you are not and start just being you.

[tiredofvampires]

Hey jdoe -- I'm sorry it's been a few days since I've posted! You've been in my thoughts. I sure hope you are still reading and checking here! Because I've got a bunch of things to say to you.

 

How are you doing? Are you hanging in there?

 

(Hey, is it just me...or it is kind of cool and funny that wolf's posts are making a parallel between "upgrades" of the "jdoe program", and jdoe, you're a software developer, as it turns out? Excuse my smiling about that!)

 

But I am really very, very glad to read your posts, about what's making you feel so horrible that you'd want to take your life. I'm glad to know more about the situation, so thank you for sharing all that. It's good to share it just to get it out of your system, but as far as I'm concerned it's also because of this: that the more you talk, the more I can see just exactly how wrongly you've evaluated your whole situation.

 

And I'm going to say something you don't like...because you've heard it before. And you don't like hearing it. But before I do, I'd like to call up an ancient Chinese saying. I believe there are other versions in other cultures, because wisdom is something that crosses cultural boundaries. But this is the Chinese version:

 

If one person tells you that you have a monkey's tail, forget what they said. If two people tell you that you have a monkey's tail...listen. And if THREE people tell you that you have a monkey's tail...start looking for your tail.

 

You understand the meaning of this, don't you? That sometimes we are the poorest judge of ourselves and can't even see ourselves properly if our lives depended on it.

 

So with that wisdom in mind, re-read what you wrote here:

 

I went to 3 therapist. I don`t want to go anymore, because every one of them said that, it all was her fault.

 

So in other words, you don't want to go to someone who might tell you the TRUTH, because you have your own truth that you want to stick to, even though you have said yourself that you lack self-esteem, that you have self-image problems and low self-worth and that you developed "problems" because of your older sister. So by your own account, your mind is not completely equipped right now to properly judge the situation. It's like a card game set up now in your head, all stacked against you to lose, but it's loaded. It's not a fair game, you can't pull the right cards because it's been arranged in your thinking process to all be against YOURSELF.

 

And it's not just 3 people telling you what they see, people who are professionals at being objective about situations. It's 5 people who are standing from the outside (including me and others here), hearing all you have to say and still all agreeing. So you have a monkey's tail, my friend -- so start looking for it. And that tail is this fact:

 

IT IS 10000000000% HER, HER, HER, HER, HER, HER FAULT, NOT YOURS. (sorry to rip you off, wolf) but you are too clouded in your feelings of inadequacy from a long time ago to see this.

 

Notice that the interesting thing here is you also said this:

 

I thought that if I go to therapist, she/he will make me feel better.

 

How can a therapist make you feel better if you don't LISTEN when they say, "Look, you were NOT the problem here, joe, she was" and stubbornly decide that your view of this is the correct one even with all the problems you are aware of, within yourself?

 

Do you think that if your sister had been loving and caring for you as her little brother, and that your mom had been always showing you the good things you can do and not ignoring you, and both of these women were strong figures in your life showing you that women are SUPPOSED TO TREAT YOU WITH CARE AND LOVE, that you would even seek out women who have lied to you, tried to shame you, disrespected you, and cheated on you and at best treated you like an afterthought? Or would you think, "These women are nothing but a tornado of damage in the world, and I would never date someone that treated a guy this way. And if one of my friends ever wanted to date one of these women, I'd slap his face and say, 'What is wrong with you? Wake up, brother. This is BAD NEWS, this girl." How different do you think your choices and your standards for how you're treated would be if the women in your early life didn't constantly make you feel like dirt?

 

You know, this is such an old idea, but I believe it still carries a lot of weight. There are exceptions of course, but it's generally true. When we are children, our opposite-sex parent teaches us how to relate to the opposite sex when we are grown. So if you are a boy, your mother shapes how you will view women and behave with them, and if you are a girl, your father has this role. Of course, the same-sex parent has a lot to do with how we treat the opposite sex, too. Both parents matter. But the dynamic between son-mother and daughter-father is a primary shaping process that translates later when we're grown into an adult dynamic. What this means is that early on, you were getting the messages that you were a piece of junk to be thrown around and that nothing you did was good enough. So trying, trying, trying to be loved required a lot of pain with no gratification of that desire. Like constantly trying to drink from a glass with no water in it.

 

I had a relationship like that with my father. (And by the way, the reason I thought maybe your father was part of the problem is because...where is he in all of this? You have not ONCE mentioned him directly, as a force or important person in your life and I see that as a problem as well.) And that's why all my life, my relationships had elements like yours. So I can relate to your settling for something so awful and all the while being under the hallucination that YOU are the problem and that YOU are the one to somehow fix everything that went wrong. It's all part of the "training" you went through, but here's the very important thing: you must be willing to see this, and acknowledge that since this is the case, you will have to leave open the possibility that you are mistaken about yourself in these relationships. And that they are in fact very bad not because you are doing something bad to them, but because these women are very unhealthy and unstable, it's not your job to "fix" them (and that's actually quite a lost cause), you deserve better, and that your standards are piss low. And that THIS is what has to change. This is actually the ONLY thing that has to change as I read your account, for you to start becoming happier and more able to have a relationship. You are not ready now, because your self-worth is in the toilet. You are ready to price yourself at 3 cents, when you are worth 3 million. And THIS has to change first -- starting with your rethinking all of this, and questioning things you now believe, and not saying stubborn things like you will not see therapists who tell you the truth.

 

I want to say something about a couple of emotions. Namely, anger and respect. Starting with anger, which is why you feel you want to end it. You feel that your anger has cost you this love, this relationship.

 

There are two kinds of anger:

 

1. Anger that is just an attack on people because the person who is angry has all kinds of things they are not dealing with, and instead they are just lashing out at innocent people and hurting them.

 

2. Anger that is justified. It is provoked by unfairness, by the disrespect of others, by being humiliated. It's a natural and healthy response to someone who is trying to diminish your dignity.

 

The first is inappropriate anger. The second is appropriate anger.

 

But if you doubt your own worth, you will get these two confused. You will not know which is which. When you are taught early on that it's not okay to have your self-respect and dignity, you also learn the wrong message that you have no right to be angry at people who are disrespecting you. If you are not allowed to feel angry at such normal reasons (#2), then you will be angry at yourself for feeling appropriate anger.

 

Is that making sense to you? So that is what's happening to you, joe.

 

With this ex of yours, you yourself said:

She wasn`t in love with me.

 

And that she didn't respect you. Well guess what -- she never did, because she is the kind of person who does not know how to love or respect someone. She was also mistreated in her past, and the way it has expressed itself for her now is to seek the attention of many men, to use you as a punching bag, to treat you like a rag she uses whenever she pleases, knowing that you will go along with anything she says. You see, the problem is not clear to you because you already do not respect yourself enough to see it, so we are pointing it out to you: SHE is TERRIBLY SCARRED AND IN NEED OF HELP...and you are like a piece of metal to her magnet. Your problem fits her problem perfectly well. She needs someone like you to disrespect and then dares to say:

 

She says, that I was her ideal for a man. I told her, that she never tried to show me such thing. She said, that she hasn`t anything to apologize for this relationship and she doesn`t do anything wrong.

 

You are the one who is right here, and for once you did not say, "Okay, no problem." (You said "okay, no problem" many times in your post...even when it was something no one should accept because she is so selfish and inconsiderate of your feelings, let alone deceptive.) So right here, you finally grew a set of balls and told her the truth for once. But because she knew that couldn't last, and knows your weak spot, she told you you made such a terrible mistake and is punishing you for your finally taking a stand and being a man.

 

This kind of humiliation and complete lack of any sort of love is grounds for your being extremely angry.

 

And so it's GOOD for you to be angry about something like this. GOOD TO BE ANGRY!!! You should not feel angry at yourself for having an APPROPRIATE response to hateful behavior!!

 

So you may not have an anger problem as such -- you have a problem with letting people drive a truck over your body, then finally when you scream out in pain, and they tell you to stop your stupid screaming, then you want to die because you think you're the one who made things wrong. When actually, the only wrong thing you did was:

 

lie down on the ground and let a truck roll back and forth over you again and again.

 

This is the only thing you are doing wrong here. All the rest IS her and her truck.

 

I really, really want you to see the difference between "good" anger and "bad." Do you see it?

 

And now -- the catch is, ANY anger is only good for a short period of time if it's the good kind.

 

Because what needs to happen next is to figure out a solution to stop the situation that keeps making you angry. That means getting away from people who make you angry because they themselves are too filled with poison. That means seeing the situation for what it is. That means saying, I do not accept treatment like this -- and since you are so convinced by your family that you still need to seek love with people who will only fuel correct anger in you, it's for you to keep going to a therapist to talk about ways to avoid people like this and recognize the signs in the future.

 

Because I can tell you from personal experience that until you believe that you are loving the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, you will not learn how to see the signs of danger before you even get into a relationship. You need to know where you are like a fish and what "hooks" you in to the wrong situations. And a GOOD therapist can help you understand these kinds of things in your everyday life. Which is not something we are close enough to do here, even though I agree, it's good to have many voices here, voices of people who are just like you, trying to figure out life.

 

After reading through the account of both your relationships, I have determined with the good judgment of someone who isn't too close to the situation (which is you), who can stand back and see the whole picture, that neither of these women were of a quality that you should ever want in your life. Neither of them loved you. Neither of them honored you. Neither of them respected you. They were both just carbon copies of your sister in a way. Or your mom and your sister. And so you have no place to say you can't have relationships.

 

You actually seem like the kind of guy who would be a dream come true for the right lady. This kind of lady though would be the opposite kind of lady from those you have been desperately trying to prove yourself to. A lady who respects you doesn't ask you to get on all fours and beg for a bit of respect. A lady who loves you won't text someone else that she will have sex with them if she doesn't have a fungal infection. A lady who cherishes you will not sleep with someone else, or embarrass you in front of all your "friends", or even call you names like "mollusk" when angry. When someone loves you, they don't care if you have a flashy car, that does not win their heart. You are already on the wrong track if doing such things is the kind of thing "required." When someone loves you, it doesn't matter if your family home is poor and if you can or can't give them gifts of all sorts. The lady that will be good for you will be GRATEFUL for your love and NOT TAKE YOU OR IT FOR GRANTED, and you won't constantly have to win her approval. It will just be there. She will think, "this jdoe, he's the kind of romantic who will do anything for a girl." She will not abuse that.

 

BUT -- it's also not good to make her the center of your universe in the sense that you breathe for her, and the sun rises and sets on her every move, and want to be with her 24/7. Women want a man who respects himself as much as he respects her. He has to be able to stand on his own two feet and love her at the time. This is what a healthy relationship looks like.

 

And so what your duty is now, is to seek out the healing you must do to make the changes in yourself to throw away what are hazardous materials (like your exes type of people -- and even your friends, because your roomate doesn't sound like a good friend to dance like an idiot on the dancefloor with your ex when he knows you are feeling so bad). First: discard the hazardous materials. Second: learn over time, with effort and guidance, to recognize good healthy fertilizer for your heart instead. Right now, you look at hazardous waste and think, "Oh, I just love it so much! I'll do anything to keep it around."

 

But it's toxic.

 

So that is what needs to happen for you. You do not need to get rid of justified anger. You don't need to get rid of feeling terrible when terrible people make you feel terrible -- that is what they do in the world.

 

You just need to be in places and with people who will protect your heart from such things and not do them.

 

You should actually be very much looking forward to life now, jdoe. Because it is a good day when a person learns where the real problem lies. And life is meant to be learnt, one lesson at a time. You can fix this, and the good news is that it doesn't mean your having to get rid of some "mean jdoe". It's that you want to put yourself in situations where jdoe honors himself and expects no less from others he gets close to.

 

Read this forum in other sections like "relationships" and "dating" or "healing from breakup" and see just how many people are in the EXACT same situation as you, only they haven't taken it so far as to be acquiring a bunch of deadly beans. I suggest you start posting in "Healing from Breakup" because you will find many friends there who have also dated scumbags and suddenly woke up from the dream to say -- "You know what? I was DATING a SCUMBAG, why did I not see that before?" Or better yet, post some threads in "Personal Growth" to get more advice on working through your self-esteem problems. Lots more people go to those forums than Suicide. You are definitely in EXTREMELY good company with the issues you have, and I can tell you from personal experience that these things can and do really get better when you become willing to work on them.

 

You have a lot of healing to do, but it's entirely do-able and I can tell from your writing you have the capacity to be a loving, generous, kind, sensitive, loyal, devoted partner -- which is more than I can say of your exes. They are broken people. You can't give such people a "chance" to "get better" while they roll trucks over you. That is not your job. You have to find the people you can give your love to and have it actually reciprocated properly.

 

It's not a "lost cause." You've just been looking west thinking that is how you need to change. But you have to look east instead. You're about 180 degrees off and just need to turn around.

 

So the prognosis is very good here, joe. I hope you will seriously think about what we’ve talked about here with you, not just toss it off.

 

 

I hope you'll come and update.

 

P.S. How refreshing it is to see someone else posting nearly as long ones as me, for once. Ha ha. Cheers!

[jdoe]

Hello all

The last days I am feeling much more better. And this also is because of all of you. I will never stop reading this thread, because here I learned a lot. Not just about me, and about the live and the people - it seems, that not all of the people are shelfish.

I can not believe how many I have told you about myself. I don`t like to talk about me, because all what I say may be used one day against me

 

tiredofvampires, I did not say anything about my father, because he was not very involved in my upbringing. He always was on work, and when he came home he was very tired. He only gave money. But I respect him a lot.

 

I want to tell you about the last weekend. On Friday I felt so bad. I got in the car and wanted to drive a bit. I felt really bad. I stopped on one gas station and fill the tank. Then I got to the highway and drive to my home town. I wanted to be alone. I turned off my phones. My roommate get very worried. He thought that I had car accident. He called my ex for asking some about phone number of my sister. On the next day I turned on my phones. At one moment my ex called me. Of course I did not answer her. Then she sms me and said that my roommate was worried about me. I sms him, and I said I am OK. When I came back, he was very diwane. Well, now I am trying to fix my friendship with him. He also wanted, but we both can not talk about personal issues.

In the group there is one very nice girl. We wasn`t very good friends, but in the past, when we went to a disco, we danced a lot. She was worried about me too. One night we go out. She asked me about everything - about the ex, about the above trip... I felt very good, after this conversation. She is really good. We are just friends, and I don`t anything from her. She has a boyfriend, and they want to get married. As a friend she is wonderful, and when we go out we have very good times.

After the conversation with this girl, I read the tiredofvampires`s post. I may realized many things. But I also realized, that there is much work to do, to fix myself.

About the ex - it is not important who is to blame. The therapist also said, that my problem fits her problem perfectly. Yesterday I watched some movie. I am not sure what we talked about with my roommate, but at one moment he said where the ex works. I felt bad. I don`t know why... Anyway.

 

Ok, the suicide is very stupid act, what ever the reason is. This was my opinion since ever. But sometimes this is the best exit. I don`t want to do it. (You all helped me for this)

It doesn`t worth it. But I will not trash the beans. They have to remind me for the past 6 months, and also if one day I decide to do it - they will help me.

I feel terrible, knowing that there is no love. I just wanted to have a girlfriend, who is in love with me. But his will not happen. It seems, that if I want successful relationship - love should be forgotten.

 

I have read a lot of the posts in this forum. There are so many stories like mines. The truth is - If there isn`t a friend to supports you, you can lost yourself very easy.

Thanks a lot for your support. I will not stop to came here, but for now I will not give any advice.

I am not sure if I will go to therapist, because this will remind me about my bad times.

 

Once again I want to thank to tiredofvampires and wolfwithin

[wolfwithin]

First off Jdoe let me tell you about my weekend in my own personal hell. My girlfriends sister broke our stove. The furnace here is broken and is actually so expensive to fix it would be cheaper to just put a new one in but that too is expensive. With out the money we have had to make due and while it is horrible and I freaked out the day it happened I took a breath, and figured out the most effective to solve these problems. For about 60 bucks I fixed both my problems of stove top and heating. The reason I am telling you this is that these are the small problems that need to be fixed first before working on the bigger problems. My reward for solving the small problems was a warm delicious bowl of what was going to be beef stew but we didn't have flour so it was really soup. It was a great reward.

 

You have problems and you are trying to solve them all in a matter of weeks and with a very harsh punishment on yourself. It isn't about punishing yourself because failing is punishment enough. Reward yourself with things. You accomplish a small goal then have some ice cream. Accomplish a large goal then get yourself a game or movie. Rewards also don't have to be anything that actually cost money. A reward can be simply going to the park to take in nature.

 

But right now you are trying to fix everything in your life on a deadline where if you fail then it truly is a deadline for you. That is a bad way to go about things. Take the beans and flush them, throw them off a cliff, or something but get rid of them. Make getting rid of them your symbol of true change. You don't need something like that as a reminder. Get something that is a symbol of life, not one that is a symbol of death. There is keeping an object for it to be symbolic and then there is keeping it because it reminds you of your old life. Those beans are your old life.

 

Remember that your old life is gone and it is for the better. You haven't been yourself with your old life and it is time to change that. If you don't want to go to a therapist then that is fine but make sure you are doing that for the right reason. I don't go to a therapist because my problems I am in control of my damaging problems so going to them wouldn't bring me that much help. You need to find an outlet for your depression and anger. Once suicide is an option that you think of for this long then it does mean that a professional is more than advised.

 

I also want to give you a story that comes from a show that I love to watch. There was a young guy who actually liked what he was doing and had just achieved a dream of his. He tried to commit suicide and failed. A week later he died from what ever he did to himself. This guy effected more people than he likely realized and by all accounts he never told those around him that he was in trouble. Telling us is one thing but tell someone face to face is very different. Tell someone close to you because while we are doing our best to help you here, others close to to you will help if they know what is going on.

 

Reading here is not always the best of ideas since most of us, myself included, have come here for help. With that said don't look at the problems on the first page but at the solutions at the end. See how many overcome their problems. See how many get brought back in trying to repeat everything they did the first time. If you touch the stove and it is hot, why would you touch it again a minute later and expect it to be cold? It is about knowing your mistakes and not repeating them. It is about taking the effort to make sure that you fix the small problems and work your way to the bigger ones. It is about taking each step one at a time till you reach the top of the mountain. You are trying to jump to the top where everything is perfect, when you need to take the steps slowly.

 

A girlfriend will come, love will come, and happiness will come. The thing is that you have to let your ex go, you have to let the idea of suicide go forever, you have to take a breath and decide that you don't like what you see and change to what YOU want. Love works trust me because I found it but only when I stopped looking. Successful relationships happen and I have plenty of proof of that. The thing is that you have to stop looking to see what is around you. When I stopped looking for love or a girlfriend or friends in general it was like suddenly there were all these people that I knew that liked me for me and enjoyed being with me. Had I not stopped looking I never would have saw them. I met my girlfriend because I was doing homework in the school cafe. I wasn't looking and honestly I had already planned on trying for couple of different girls and then I saw her.

 

Sometimes you have to let life lead you and not you control everything. You are at a path that breaks into many separate paths but you will only see them when you stop trying to find the perfect path. You think you need these friends and these girls and if you don't have them then life is a failure but you are wrong. Instead you need to see the chances you are giving up by narrowing your life to a small group. You need to expand your mind and stop looking for everything to go back to how they were. You are limiting yourself to something your really didn't like. Open up and stop trying to find what you think you want because it is blinding you from what you need.

 

Also I will come here and do my best to help you for as long as I can.

[wolfwithin]

Hey Jdoe how about a post or something man. Would love to know how you are doing. It has been awhile and I want to make sure you are still around. Send me a message if you don't want to post anymore or something I just want to make sure you are here.

[jdoe]

Hello all

I am happy, that I can name you as my friends.

Sorry that I did not write for a while. I wanted to draw my attention to the work.

 

I want to tell you about last 2-3 weeks, but I am afraid, that you will not understand me very well.

I told you, that I had meeting with one girl friend and I told her all. She was very supported to me. I ran away for 2 days, and she and my room mate were very worried about me. After these two moments and after reading all your posts, I sat down, because I had the need to think about every think. I realized how wrong I was, and right you are.

I needed a few glasses of whiskey to relax my brain. I really can not describe what I felt. Two days after the talk with that girl, I was like a reborn. I was so happy. I realized all my life, all the bad thinks that happened to me. All the bad thinks was necessary to happened, so I could realize who I am, and what I have to do. I felt like I am reborn. Like non of this was happened to me. The live is complicated, but this is challenge, this is the interesting.

As a software developer, I always say "We do not see a problem, we see a possible solution". Of course these are not my words, but that is the way I tried to live before...

Yeah jdoe 1.0 and jdoy 2.0 was a failure. But jdoe 3.0+ is better, and every day I will try to show myself this.

 

A week ago, I had skype conversation with one ex girl friend - my first long relation ship. She was so depressed, because she divorced with her husband, and she is in love with a guy, who loves her, but he is very hurt, because her lies. I tried to tell her what I learned here. That all the bad things in our live is a message or a lessen. After 2-3 yours and about 1000 rows of messages, she was better. She told me that she feels better. I was happy about her, because she is a nice person, and we are good friends.

 

 

Now the main problem is to change myself, to be the person I want to be. I think I know who I want to be, now it is time to make that guy.

 

wolfwithin - you wrote about a symbol if life - it is one silver cross.

 

I hope every one here will be happy because the life mean to be lived

[wolfwithin]

Great news Jdoe. I am happy you are finding peace within yourself and you found your symbol to remind you that no matter what just because things seem bad it is really for your own good. There will be times when things get rough but as long as you remember that you have made a commitment to living then you will be fine. Use your symbol when times go bad. Know now that you wear the armor of protection from your old life and it can not come in unless you lose faith in yourself and you don't have to worry about that anymore.

 

Life is all about overcoming the hurdles before us and crossing over the bridges we build to get us to the end. We will always be here to help you if you need us. You can always send me a private message and I will respond if you need me too. I have traveled through the same dark paths as you have and I have walked out a different person because of it. I am better for it and even though right now my path is dim I am seeing the light at the end to make the struggles worth it. If you find yourself back in the darkness and your symbol isn't bright enough to give you the light to get through it, know you always will have a friend here in me to help guide you through.

[tiredofvampires]

It is so wonderful to hear from you, jdoe! And to hear of your amazing and courageous, fast progress!

 

I read your last post before this one, and it made me very, very happy.

 

I wanted to reply (it's been hard because lately I've had some pretty difficult problems of my own)...but I have to say, wolfwithin said ALL the right things, things I would have said myself. Especially the bit about the symbol of life. And how you don't and shouldn't hang onto the past in the form of these beans, or anything else that reminds you of the delusion that you can't have a better life, a full and meaningful life filled with healthy relationships that build you up, not tear you down.

 

A lot of this is learning how to see other people for what they are, clearly. And protecting yourself instead of directing all that unhealthy, polluted energy into yourself and taking it on. It's very exciting to see you catch on to this, and to run with this ball now, continuing!

 

I had hoped that the reason you were not posting was because you've been out there doing what needs to be done to work on all that we've talked about. And I'm very gratified to know that it was the case! That you have been busy doing good things for yourself, and really grabbing onto the realizations that you have had.

 

Because they are not some phase, some fleeting moment. They are the seeds of real self-understanding and happiness that can grow. But it won't be overnight, just as a tree takes its time. Now that you have a taste...remember, always remember to be patient as well with yourself. The tree takes a while to grow new branches, to spread more leaves accross the sky, and to bear fruit.

 

There is something I've learned, and it's been a very painful learning process...that there are many paths to happiness, but the one that is least likely to topple over in a storm is the one the recognizes pain as part of the entity we call happiness. You cannot experience full joy without its opposite, and to the degree you experience one, you will learn to feel the other in all its intensity. That way, you are prepared for a happiness that includes sadness sometimes, disappointment sometimes, even heartbreak. It seems nonsensical, and completely absurd...but happiness that includes all the other emotions, that allows them to be, to arise, to happen, and then to change, is more enduring and unshakable. It is a myth that anyone lives "happily ever after." Life is always a challenge and new things will always present. And each time, you are given another tool, or another piece of the puzzle to work out and master. Some are relatively minor to deal with, and some can nearly kill a person...but the principle is the same. You take the situation as a chance to learn a new lesson, to find your weak spot and give it strength. But happiness, mature happiness, is not a pure state, or an unbroken line. And a good deal of happiness you get through the door of wisdom...and wisdom requires suffering, or it wouldn't be wise.

 

And everything that has happened to you shapes the new person emerging that you are becoming. It's very, very good that you're interested to see how this is going to shape up. Always stay interested, stay curious. It's an exciting story, isn't it, jdoe? Your own life. If you were the hero of your own movie, you wouldn't want to watch the movie if he was not at times in peril, would you? A hero has to face danger and grief...or else his life may actually have little meaning, and little learned, in the end.

 

One thing that's kept me alive again and again is that I am curious. I've never completely lost that, even though I've come very close to not caring anymore. Even when things have been dark...BLACK...I held out the idea that...something comes next. And that "NEXT" is anyone's guess. I am not a fortune-teller, and neither are you. None of us know what is going to happen NEXT. What happened before is the reason many people kill themselves, but the falsehood of that is that no one's past, however awful, can tell you what is next. No one's past has the power to damn a whole future. Even when I've lost hope or faith, I've clung to this, because you can't lose this. You can't LOSE the FACT that the future is unwritten and unknown. It simply is the fact, and facts (unlike perceptions and interpretations) are undeniable, no matter what and who you are and where you stand and what's gone on. Only "God" knows what's next...and even then...maybe not. It depends on your belief system (and I'm not religious myself). But whether you believe in god or not, one thing no one can disprove: none of us mortals know what lies in the future, ever, EVER -- and especially if we decide, really DECIDE, "I know where the changes must take place inside me, and I will make them."

 

A new jdoe = a new life. You can't evolve and not have life evolve along with you.

 

And remember...nothing can escape change, even if we believed in things being the same.

 

I'm feeling proud of you for taking the drive that night, instead of doing something drastic to harm yourself. Or staying indoors and feeling horrible and left out. (Also, good for ignoring the ex's texts. I hope you just cut her out of your life, totally.) That's what you should also do in the future, just exactly like that. When you feel you're hurting, don't hurt yourself -- but take yourself away from the people and the environment so you can clear your mind and think rationally. It's an act of self-care. You can always get a new perspective when you do this. I do it often...I go out for a walk. The longer, the better. Or if I can't walk far, I just sit, away from the places that remind me of what's not working. And then often, all by itself, I find new courage to go on, to make a plan, to see it in a new light. There is always a larger view than the tiny window we see things through when we're extremely depressed. By nature, depression makes the window smaller and smaller until you're only looking through a tiny pinhole, and that's where it gets dangerous. So that was great you did that, and keep that in mind as one of your tools. Open, open, open. Keep the space open...and if your living space is closed, go find a space outside that IS open. Because that will open your heart to yourself more, just by letting life flow through you.

 

Almost like magic, this has mysteriously worked for me...I'm in such a low place and think nothing will help me out of it...and then I do something very simple like this for myself, to let the world touch me...and then...something soon after rewards me with a little surprise, something good. Just like that phone call with your friend. Sometimes I even joke with myself when it's super awful and say, "Well, since it's this rotten, that must mean something good is about to happen." It's always UP from the lowest place, and that's the good news!

 

And I'm also very glad you had this very productive discussion with your lady friend. You see? Many people care for you, and also with this online conversation of yours, you see that you are a good friend and someone who can help others. People value you and want you to be here! You will gain in wisdom and be able to help others see clearly when they're blinded by their pain, and show them that this is not a permanent state in the mind. You can be a healing person to others, and because you have been there yourself and know what it took to get well.

 

Having a friend, BEING a friend, means you will never be alone in this world, and love will come naturally without your ever having to go on a mission to find it.

 

I have also found that friendship is just about the best kind of love there can be. Romantic love is of course wonderful. But friendship is still the foundation of it all. And if you have that with people, there is never a moment that love is out of reach.

 

On the note of therapy -- it sounds like right now, you're doing so well that you don't need it. But if it ever comes down to it again...if you hit a rough patch, it's good to remember that sometimes it gets worse before it gets better, with therapy. And that therapy isn't supposed to feel "good" for a while, at least and especially at the beginning. The process of talking about painful things is no one's idea of a good time, but sometimes you have to go through to get over. So that's not a reason to give up on it.

 

I'm feeling very invigorated hearing about you now, though, and breathing sighs of relief.

 

I don't post as much here as I used to, but I'm keeping an eye out for you, my friend.

 

If I miss a new post or thread if you're having another bad time, drop me PM to let me know you've posted.

 

Just know that you're someone who really has every chance of being the man you want to be, because you are putting all your heart into it. I love your determination. And also know that the man you are now is already a pretty good man already.

 

Cheers to you on your journey. Keep your symbol of life close at hand.