IS IT WORTH IT?

[ziggystar]

here's my situation: i'm a 37 year old man whose never had a relationship last longer then a few months. i'm currently in a position where i'm in a break/break-up with my current ex. there is not definitive answer. i know that if i push for a definitive answer at this moment in time, i will get a break-up. the relationship was brief but intense on the level that both parties know what is involved (a life-time commitment). the questions that arise in my head at this time is:

 

1) is a relationship that is so brief worth saving?

 

2) but never having a "long" relationship, when does one actually put worth into something?

 

3) or does the length of time even matter?

 

i've been through a few relationship in the past few years that have ultimately come to the same crossroads, where the other person started to have coldfeet. (i also realized that i have certain issues also). maybe it was too fast too soon, but all started to get aloof at the 2-3 month period, a seemingly magic number. while the past few relationships had ended abruptly (me being dumped), i did not pursue them afterwards. this current one, however, i am. partly because of how much we both let each other into each other peripheral world and because i'm tired of coming to the same point in every relationship and decided to take a stand. also, the fact is there is some chance however slim, compared to chances with anybody from the past. so...

 

4) am i kidding myself?

 

also it seems a daunting task to go back out there and try to meet somebody else, when i get the sneaking suspicion that i will encounter the same problem. and my attitude is, why not try to fix the situation that i have now, instead of spending the same amount of energy if not more on something new. i know that i have my particular issues that lead to these situations and i also know the other party have their issues. now this doesn't preclude me from going out there if ultimately i have to, but at my age, there are so many x factors that i have taken care of and am well established in the areas of career, living situation and lifestyle. so really, i'd like to start a family. i do suppose that such a commitment so early on is by nature very scary.

 

5) is patience and understanding the key?

 

6) if so, how long before i'm flogging a dead horse? (it's been 2 months of limbo, and 37 years of dysfunction. )

 

i guess these questions are esoteric and can be only answered by me. but your views (either about my situation and/or yours) are welcome and appreciated.

[Here2Help]

also it seems a daunting task to go back out there and try to meet somebody else, when i get the sneaking suspicion that i will encounter the same problem. and my attitude is, why not try to fix the situation that i have now, instead of spending the same amount of energy if not more on something new.

 

This is a good question, but it's also unanswerable as you pose it, which I think leads to the problem you're encountering. It's usually better to salvage a workable relationship than to cast out into the unknown, but the real question is: what are you looking for? If she doesn't meet your standards, and your standards are sufficienty grounded in reality, then it's your duty to move on. No sense wasting her time or your time, and God forbid, bringing children into a dysfunctional marriage. At 37, you've been through the mill enough times to recognize when problems are brewing, and you already know the likely outcome.

 

I'm a 38 year-old guy, single and never married. Lots of people are surprised no one has hitched me yet, but that's the way it goes. I'm not going to settle. Should I be married with kids now? No, it would be irresponsible to bring kids into the world with a poorly-chosen wife.

 

As you well know, this is 2004, not 1904. It's a whole different world out there in terms of male/female relations. Also, remember that as a guy, you don't have the same biological clock issues, and you can date younger women, whereas women have a harder time dating younger men. So, there's no reason to panic and jump into a bad relationship.

 

Only you know the whole situation here...you haven't provided much detail on the problems. But definitely don't feel there's some kind of abyss out there if you let this one go. You might see a counselor to work out these "issues" you allude to, then look for a more healthy relationship after counseling.

[sachat]

I dont think that the lenght of time of a relationship last should be an indicator of wheter or not a relationship should be saved. You should concentrate more on your feeling toward your ex, and not trying to get back with that person just because you dont want to be with someone, but rather that you want to be with that person. I mean, even if the relationship was brief, if you feel that this relationship could be a long-lasting relationship and that you could be happy together, it is worth fighting for.

 

But i guess, that if you have issues, you need to work on these before trying to be in a relationship.

[ziggystar]

here2help,

 

thanks for the feedback. it's great to here from someone in a relatively same point in life and see a different perspective.

 

the situation as it is for me. is that my ex(?) and i both want the same things in life, a mutually committed, monogamous, supportive relationship full of growth. on the peripheral, we both envision children and a family business. we're both artist in our own right. she's more passionate and i'm more rational. she and i both know that if we commit to each other, it is something indefinite. she is scared of taking that step. and i suppose i never really have faced the reality of such a commitment since there was that barrier to get through. as i said, i suppose that it is inherently a scary proposition. my issues (which i am seeing a counselor about) is that i took her own fears and issues personally as if she was afraid of me or found defect in me, which triggered my own anxieties which lead to arguments and the break down of our relationship. and putting this in the context of a few months, it seems much too much too soon to absorb. rationally i see that given some time the tensions might ease off enough to be able to see clearly, but in practice it very hard. i don't want to cut this off, because there is no reason. there are no games being played by either party. it seems as if we both are just holding out and treading lightly, not sure where to go. no talk of any sort about the relationship has happened within the last 2 months, but there is this slim tether of regular communication and some property we each have of each others that hasn't been collected on purpose.

 

i definitely would not want to bring kids into something that is dysfunctional, although as humans i think we all have a bit of dysfunction. that being said, i would not want to bring kids into a marriage that was destined to fail. but the point would be to iron out those issues before marriage and kids.

 

as for this relationship, i suppose i just need to let go of the desired outcome without letting go of the possibility and yet be open to other options. i think this is possible, but entirely difficult.

 

At 37, you've been through the mill enough times to recognize when problems are brewing, and you already know the likely outcome.

 

well, that's problematic, i do recognize certain things but since things are constantly changing and some of my experiences are from a different decade (and shrouded in a different context), it hard to judge what the outcome will be. and to an extent, how much of the outcome is due to my own pattern of behavior, which in all accounts has brought me grief. my current ex is 35 and yes her clock is ticking. especially with an exponential amount of her friends getting hitched and especially since a couple of them have reunited after a break-up. a mental block is hindering her, can it be unblocked? is it a matter of months or years? or is that block permanent when it comes down to me?

[ziggystar]

sachat,

 

well, we both have issues that need to be worked on. and i think ultimately, it isn't a necessity to have all your issues worked out before being in a relationship. after all, my parents have been married for some 60 years and yet they still have issues. but i hear what you are saying. i feel as if we need to resolve this set of issues to be able to get to the next step, but it doesn't seem mutual. at least i do not have any evidence of that.

 

but thank you for your view on valuing a relationship regardless of time spent. i think the same. i feel this relationship can be long-lasting, it has that potential. i just hope we're on the same track and don't squander the opportunity.

[AB38]

I am also in my late 30's, never married and have been through many relationships that ended in heartache. What I have tried to do is ask myself, what is the problem that keeps from a committed relationship?

 

You have to ask yourself the questions while you are not with someone, otherwise you won't be able to fix what is wrong, make sense? Don't worry about your clock ticking, as I am finding out, there are alot of women out there who think I am a catch, and can look past the fact that I have never been married.

 

Good luck and keep in mind, that someone is out there waiting for you.

[GeeCee]

Ziggystar

 

I shall say it again .... I love your questions. Questions should be thought-provoking and yours always are.

 

Is it worth it? Well ... of course, only you can answer that. Of course. I guess tho, in generic terms, it becomes more 'worth it' if you think that it is salvageable. Now that is the difficult thing. I would imagine that most of us on here who want our exes back have some kind of 'gut feeling' that this is the one, otherwise we would not invest the effort and emotional energy in trying to retrieve a lost lover.

 

However, whether it is worth it or not, I think, depends on the outcome of these efforts. If we win the battle, then of course it is worth it, and at some point in the future we look back and 'laugh' at our 'lost weekend'. If we are not successful in our endeavours, inevitably, we shall meet another and the heartbreak of the break-up will be rationalised as 'meant to be'.

 

So it is a little like WAR - your perception of whether it is worth it or not depends on whether you win or lose the battle.

 

From a personal point of view. I no longer think it is worth it, at the moment anyway. I think that the damage is too great. But that is just my opinion, and it took me a while to get there!!

 

G xx

[ziggystar]

AB38

 

thanks for the cheer.

 

i hear what you are saying. i know that there are other women out there. i know that for certain. but i think the issues and problems faced in every relationship that reaches a certain point always props up. and i'm just saying in this particular relationship, there seems to be a chance to get to the next level. it seems to be on the verge of it, but the unknown factor is causing me doubt and anxiety sets in to the point where it's overwhelming me and all i want to do is stop the pain. my impulse is to call her up and cut it off. but as i said in the first post, there are no games being played. no manipulating behavior. just cordial and friendly movement. so if i acted on impulse and cut it off, it will do nothing but create drama. it's mostly an internal turmoil-ridden battle.

 

what is the problem that keeps from a committed relationship?

 

we'll for me is first believing that what i am growing through is normal. i have a tendency to believe the issues that prop itself up are specific to me, like some curse. that in itself makes me overreact to any perceived pulling away of my partner, that in turn makes her react, and then i react even more and then she does too. over and over until it's blown out of proportion.

 

i just discovered that a close friend of mine who just recently got married, went through the same issues me and my ex went through. except they managed through it in a rather short period of time (comparatively). if you asked him, he would have said it was worth it. although they never did actually break up to resolve their issues. in my situation there wasn't an offical break up, but definitely suspended operations. and i guess the answer time will tell. it's not so much the actual details of what's happening in the relationship or lack of that is causing me grief. it's my own mind.

 

 

geecee,

 

nice hearing from you!!!

 

yes i do agree to whether it is worth according to outcome. like my example above, my friend would have said yes, but he almost said no in the middle of his relationship. but i guess, where my question was coming from was from the pit of emotional anxiety that i was feeling right at that moment when i posted this thread. which all together is from a different level. it was overwhelming me and it came from the depths of my own mind considering that the last time i saw my ex recently, it was for all intensive purposes good. but since then, it's been a rollercoaster purely driven by my anxiety without any participation from my ex.

[Belle]

Ziggy,

 

Can I ask if you broke up or did she? If it was her, did she get overwhelmed and scared at the prospect? Your rleationship sounds an enormous amount like mine. I got scared, found an excuse and bolted. But I came back 4 days later. Then I got scared again and bolted for 3 weeks. He kind of helped me bolt because he got angry and mean, but I bolted none the less. We went from magic and starry eyed to afraid of the other. I have since gone back and told him I was ready to stand still and stop pushing him away but he doesn't know what he wants. I believe he is not at teh stage in his life that he really wants to try to work through his anxiety for a relationship. He and I had the same problem, I just happened to pull the trigger.

 

If you really want an intimate committed relationship, you will have to work on it. Realize that after a few months people start to look real and that the glow goes away. This is real love. The romantic crap is just chemistry really. The rest is work, communication and standing still. I've learned a lot in a short period of time. I learned that I have to develop better relationship and communciation tools if I want real solid love. Not that crazy swooning "I'll do anything to get you but I won't to keep you" stuff. That's just bs.

 

Anyway, I can't tell from the sound of your post if she's really interested in getting back together or not. I hate being in limbo myself. I almost wish I had stuck to no contact.

 

Belle

[ziggystar]

hey belle,

 

Can I ask if you broke up or did she? If it was her, did she get overwhelmed and scared at the prospect

 

well, it wasn't so clean cut. we went from that starry-eyed blissful place to this other place. it started when she started to resist the relationship, i got resentful of her resistance and got mad at her. this went back and forth in this fashion with each time getting worse and worse on both sides to the point where i suggested we take a break, but meanwhile in my own head i had decided i had enough. she must had sensed that, and came running the next day to make sure we were taking a break. at that moment in time, i changed my mind. after 2 weeks had gone by, i decided to call her up and go for dinner. she agreed but wanted to have dinner at her place because she had something she wanted to tell me. it turned out she wanted to break up. during the dinner she has told me all of her fears of the future. and that she was scared of the commitment, because then it would be indefinite. on one hand she was afraid of losing her independence and on the other she was afraid of losing me. at that point, i was so tired of fighting with her. i agreed on the breakup. but somehow after that point she began to be unsure. we cried in front of each other for a while, hugged, kissed, it was a mess. we stated, i love you's to each other for the first time too. it was quite bizarre, because it felt so loving, yet we we're breaking up. at the end of the night, she asked for a few days to think as if she wasn't final about the break up. i left feeling dejected. a few days later, i couldn't let it go and came over to her house unexpectedly and told her that i couldn't not have her in my life and wanted to work things out. she told me she still had reservations and still needed to think things over. a couple of days after that she called and left a message saying she still didn't have any news and had no direction. i emailed her that night, saying, why don't we start from scratch with no heavyness and expectations and get to know each other more. she replied with a rather rude message saying she thinks it's a good idea, but she needs some time, that i need to give her time, and if i continue on this path it will only push her off further. i wrote back nothing more then i understand. she called me a few days after that and sort of apologized for the rude email. i told her that was okay. i realized that for all this stuff to stop swaying, i had to do my part and that was to stop and stand still. and show her that i wasn't running.

 

and since then we've been in sparse contact weekly with no talks of relationship. she has her clothes still at my place and i'm sure she hasn't forgotten about them since they're of sentimental value. i haven't asked for her to take it back and she hasn't asked for them. recently we had a flurry of contact. i had initiated a possibility of getting some breakfast together. and she has kept up with the idea of the plan since my initiation, although we haven't yet done that. she did however recently stop by my place on her way home and we took a brief walk to the train station together. this was the first time i had seen her in 7 weeks. i do sense however she might have after that contact pulled back into her shell a little as i have not heard from her since, although she told me she would call me after the weekend. today being wednesday.

 

i'm ready to accept her back wholeheartedly. i know she's scared. i understand why. and i understand that my own issues and getting mad at her made it worst. even if she wanted to come back tomorrow, i beileve however it should go slower so that we can build solid trust and intimacy. yes, it's lots of work, but i want it and i do anything for it. i love her truly.

 

that being said, although i don't act on my anxieties, they still wreak havoc internally. i'm working on it. but sometimes it's so overwhelming, all i want to do is cut free. now i understand the feeling of being overwhelm as she was and you (belle). so i feel, if i want her to beat her anxieties, so must i. i must be willing to go through it myself if i ever to hope that she will. so here i am.

 

anyway, sorry for the long story. i would really like to get your sense of things, since i do see and sense similarity between your situation and mine, but in opposite roles. maybe you can possess my girlfriend and i'll possess your boyfriend and trigger what we need to happen.

 

 

[Belle]

I'm glad to have read your post Ziggy. yes, it does seem a little like I'm your ex. I got super scared and I pushed him away twice. But things were highly charged, and I've had time to think about things. About whether or not he was worth changing for. About whether I'm capable of letting go and living in the moment and standing still. And I am. I'm strong. I've done it before. I can do it again.

 

I think that the difference is that both our exes are now unsure for different reasons. he is unsure that I won't do the same thing and hurt him again. She's unsure that she is capable of letting go. This you can't change. I'm in my 30's and I had a recent event that hurt me pretty badly and at that time I made a commitment that I would work on building stronger relationships. She may not have come to the epiphany that the old defenses aren't going to work if she wants to get the most out of life. This will be the determining factor for both your ex and mine.

 

I think the best thing you did in this situation is to ask to start over. When things get too intense too quickly, backing up is natural. I've heard several of my friends that have done the same thing. One such couple got back together, got married and have a baby boy now. It does happen but both have to be willing to live with the uncertainty of the future. You sound like you're ready. I'm not so sure she is. If she really cares about you, as I did for my ex, she'll do what it takes. But give her some time. It took me 3 weeks to realize. When I did contact him, he was upset that it took me so long and he asked me if I was sure I was at a place where I could stop running. I said "I do now". 3 weeks prior I couldn't have said that. So his claim that I waited too long was silly. If you give her time and she comes back, I think she'll come back because she thinks you're worth making the effort. But honestly, if she doesn't, she's NOT. If I can do it, as emotionally sterile as I've lead my life and unable to get really close to anyone, she can. I've found that since my friend's death I cry more than anyone can expect me to cry. Friends who thought I was a cold unemotional person saw and are seeing a side to me that they were shocked existed. But again, this took a crisis to bring out. Without which, I'd still be back in teh land of arms length.

 

Give it time. Don't push. Move forward. If she wants to try again, she will let you know. If she doesn't, you would never have had a rewarding relationship with her. I can say that having been in her shoes. If she doesn't change you'll never get to know the real person and she'll always be too guarded to really love you. Do you want that for yourself?

 

Belle

[shockeddismayed]

Belle

 

That is some really good and tough advice.

 

Ziggy. You and I are in such similar situations. Both of us know what is up (or at least part of what is up) with our ex (inability to give in to the relationship), and both of us appear to be the type of person that wants to help them work through things. We're giving.

 

I'm really flip-flopping on your situation, as I am on my own. Part of me really likes your "strategic nudges" idea, but part of me says that it might not be the best course of action. Putting aside our own feelings, is it really a good idea to keep reminding our EX that we are out here waiting? Do we need to do that in order for her to "open up" to the idea of the relationship?

 

What if it is more like what Belle describes, and that part of the reason our EXes aren't willing to try again, is that they sense that we are more ready for the relationship than they are and they know that it isn't fair to us. If this is the case, any strategic nudges could simply remind them of that guilty conscience.

 

You see... the way I look at it Ziggy... you are in the situation I was in when my EX and I STARTED. She talked to me about her fear of loss... she even admitted that she wished she wasn't romantically interested in me, cuz then we could "just be friends and I'd(she) never have to lose you(me)". Nevertheless, we tried to work through it together. It took 7 months of patiently building up the intimacy (including one week long break) but the end result was great... she'd fallen completely in love with me. Unfortunately, the truth is (and she is realizing it now) that although she did fall head over heals in love, she still couldn't let herself completely "give in" to the relationship. I could feel it, and it built resentment inside me... which led to all sorts of cyclical problems. Now SEVEN YEARS later, I am back in the same place... having to be patient and supportive of this girl. Except this time I feel like I can't be as giving as last time... that my giving last time allowed her to fall into the shelter and love of the relationship WITHOUT completely exorcising her demons.

 

I guess my worry for you is that if you are too supportive, you end up in the situation I am in... her issues coming back up once you have both invested years into something that started with the two of you on unequal ground.

 

I'm sorry if this advice isn't all that clear... I don't know what to do myself. My EX and I completed our series of relationship chats 14 days ago... we left it on a very optimistic note and she claimed she'd need to keep calling me cuz she wasn't going to let me go. I sent a card and CD for her birthday 9 days ago..... and I haven't heard a peep. Strange.... I can't decide if she is grieving my loss (I did say I needed to move on), trying to move on herself, realized it isn't fair to contact me, halfway through the epiphany that Belle speaks of, or just plain confused!??!

[ziggystar]

i've decided to move on. i realized i went above and beyond the call of duty to let her know that i was there and what i wanted to counteract any of my perceived wrong-doing when we we're still together. at ths point, i need to let it go. it's not so much an action i need to do, like calling her up and telling her anything. it isn't like she breaking down my door or anything. my decision is just to let her go internally and move on. there is no point in staying around. i'll accept calls, since they are only cordial and friendly. no sense in being rude. but her inability to break after 2 months, just means, enough is enough. time to move on.

 

thanks everybody!!!

[GeeCee]

Ziggystar

 

Sometimes there is no thunderbolt, no epiphany and no revelation. But somehow or other the mist clears and you see what you have to do. Doing it is not easy. But you know that you have to do it.

 

Good luck to you.

 

G xx

[AB38]

Ziggy:

 

I am glad to see that you were able to move on. I think there is something about the late 30's that causes us to re-evaluate our lives and relationships.

 

For me, I came to the conclusion that I am a serial monogamist. I have always sought affirmation from my partners. And I have developed an underlying guilt about not being married at 38. So I did a lot of thinking after this last break and asked myself why I keep failing in relationships? In all of about 1 or 2, I have been the dumpee.

 

For me, it all boils down to my insecurites. Insecurites that developed as a result of so many failed relationships. So what I have to do is try and approach future relationships with some self confidence. Confidence that I know there is nothing wrong with me, that my mate is ok that I am 38 and not married and that she is with me because she wants to be with me.

Easier said than done, but I must in order to find the true soul mate.

 

So now I have met someone, a little nervous because it's only been a few weeks since my ex and I broke up. I like her, but I will not allow myself to slip into another unhealthy relationship. I told her I want to take things nice and slow, which is uncharted waters for me. Once again, easier said than done.

 

I don't know if this is the case for you and I am certainly not assuming that, I just wanted you to know my reasons.

 

Good luck to you.

[ziggystar]

AB38,

 

i'm in the same exact boat as you with one extra tick. my relationships have all been short never passing a year. but i am a serial monagomist too. i've decided not to even think about a relationship right now and work on pulling my life together and reinventing myself. i also realized that my issues with romantic relationships are the same issues i have with my other relationship, such a with family and friends. but why i never saw it was that they were of less intensity compared to a romantic relationship. issues like such as my lack of healthy boundaries affect all my relationships.

 

i told my ex to come and get the rest of her clothes tomorrow. it will be final tomorrow. she lead me on to believe there might be a chance of getting back together to let's be friends. i hate that line. it never works out, so why say things like that. she tried to blame me for misinterpeting her actions. whatever. either way it's done.

[Here2Help]

i've decided not to even think about a relationship right now and work on pulling my life together and reinventing myself.

 

Ziggy, congratulations on your decision and new attitude. I made the same decision about a year ago, and have since started a business and done a lot of other self-improvement stuff, and the net effect is that people are all telling me how great I look. Women are literally coming up to me on the street, checking me out, etc!? It will be cool to see "where you are" a year from now.

 

As for the guilt and self-blame you're feeling...while it sounds healthy overall, don't fall into the trap of beating up on yourself. It's a fine line between being honest about your shortcomings and piling on with all your "critics." The main thing is I see no reason for you to feel guilty or wrong about your heretofore lack of finding a life mate. Here's some stuff to consider:

 

* More than 1/2 of all American marriages end in divorce. So, even if someone beat you to the alter, it doesn't mean they were in any way wiser.

 

* Many marriages that last are not happy ones.

 

* Your feeling that you have "rushed" too much is in fact culturally biased. For example, I have an aunt and uncle who are now married for 45 years, and they met and married in 3 DAYS!! I know of another married couple that eloped when they were juniors in high school, and that was in the 1950s!! No, women in our age group had this post-feminist aversion, and even comtempt, about men, and often made us feel like idiots for even suggeesting there should be honest, real feelings and expression. It was a big game, and a game devised in an era when people had it too good and didn't know what life is really all about. There are people in other cultures around the world today who actually marry the first person they ever date, and women consider it strange to NOT want to have a man.

 

* As much as you feel you've been the dumpee, consider for a second how many women you haven't even asked out. Next, ask yourself how many of these women who coldly dumped you you wish you were married to today? Do any of them fit the description of the kind of loving person you REALLY want to share your life with? Maybe something inside them knew you were too real, or they were scared, or they wanted something so ideal that it's nothing more than a fantasy?

 

Sure, I'm sure you made lots of mistakes. We all do. Just don't feel these women had the answers, because they don't.