Coping with a complex situation. (this is rather long)

[owher]

This post has been deleted.

[Locke2121]

She knows she made a horrible mistake by cheating on you. Many cheaters continue to cheat for a long time. Sounds like she sobered up and went "Oh my GOD!" The second guy.....in my opinion she was a little out of her mind and was used...I honestly can't blame her for wanting to be near someone when it seems her world is crashing down.

 

*sigh* LDR's always have one big problem.. communication. Its one thing to talk over a phone, but not having your SO there can put a big strain on a person. I honest feel she loves you and no other...I hope that can blunt your anger a bit right there.

 

How do deal with the guys??? Why should you? They are nothing but self-centered jacka#### that will most likely never have a serious relationship in their lives...your already one up on them, you have her.

[owher]

How do deal with the guys??? Why should you? They are nothing but self-centered jacka####

 

I know. I keep telling myself this. That they aren't worth the mental anguish. Trying to get over what they did is really hard. Am I wrong for looking at the incident with the first guy as sexual assualt? He did threaten her and she was very afraid that he would hurt her or abandon her in the middle of nowhere. I think that if she had known where she was, or she felt that she had someway to escape him, then she would have. I just keep thinking about how much he hurt her, how much he hurt me, and how much I would like to hurt him in return. Then again, I don't really think I would feel better if I did "hurt him."

 

Also, not sure if this is relavent, but both of the guys knew about me before the incidents occurred. I guess this only further shows that they have no respect or decency for anyone.

[Enakmai]

In December I discovered that she cheated on me twice during September. I found out by finding chat logs on her computer detailing two incidents with two different guys. The first guy was her ex and the second was a guy that she has been in contact with via school for about two years.

[/Quote]

 

Twice.

 

First Guy

This was her ex. They only dated a short time and from what I understand the relationship was horrible. She has told me that the guy treated her terribly and pretty much only used her for sexual purposes. He cared nothing for her and quickly dumped her after he was "finished." She always told me that she hated the guy and never wanted anything to do with him...

[/Quote]

 

Emphasizing this before my next point.

 

At some point in September he contacted her via IM. For whatever reason she began talking to him. [/Quote]

 

She "hates" him, and they talk again. A little odd.

 

At this time they attended the same university (he dropped out shortly after September). They had a class in a similar building at the same time, so he would approach her to talk. Eventually the IM conversations turned sexual and they spoke of meeting one day after class. When I questioned my girlfriend about this she told me that up to that point the IM conversations were nothing more than fantasy and that she never had any intention of ever doing anything with him.

 

This is the biggest load of BS I've heard yet.

 

He asked if they could meet after class in the parking lot. She told me that after class she started towards her car and didn't anticipate actually seeing him.[/Quote]

 

And then I read this.

 

As she was getting to her car, he was in the lot waiting for her. Her fantasy was his reality and he was there to meet. She told me that she panicked and didn't know what to do, so she got in his car and they drove to a location unknown to her.[/Quote]

 

To have a nice friendly chat. Between friends. Platonically. And she didn't suspect anything at all.

 

She told me that she was trying to stall so he would have to take her back to campus for her next class and they wouldn't have time to do anything.[/Quote]

 

And if she did have time to do something?

 

Eventually she told him that she wanted to go back for her class. At this point she told me that they hadn't done anything sexual. His reply to her was" "you are going to give me a blow job and you better swallow or else I might not take you back" (I apologize for the crude langauge, but those were his words).[/Quote]

 

Not rape. Coercion.

 

Rape is an act of sexual intercourse carried out:

 

1. "against a person's will by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the person or another."

2. where the victim is unable to resist because of an intoxicating, narcotic, or anesthetic substance that the accused has responsibility for administering.

3. where the victim is unconscious of the nature of the act and the perpetrator knows it.

4. where the victim believes, due to the perpetrator's intentional deceptive acts, that the perpetrator is her spouse.

5. where the perpetrator threatens to retaliate against the victim or any other person, and there is a reasonable possibility the perpetrator will execute the threat -- "threatens to retaliate" means threatens to kidnap, imprison, inflict extreme pain, serious bodily injury, or death.

6. where the victim is incapable of giving consent, and the perpetrator reasonably should know this.

7. where the perpetrator threatens to use public authority to imprison, arrest, or deport the victim or another, and the victim reasonably believes the perpetrator is a public official.

 

From what I know of this guy, he's rather violent and has a large circle of violent friends. He knows where she lives, her class schedule, her phone number, and she had no idea where they were or how to get away. She was afraid.. and he threatened her. So she gave in to his demands and performed oral sex on him. [/Quote]

 

She went there in the first place, he made no threats.

 

After the incident she didn't tell anyone. In my mind, I see this as rape.. or at least sexual assault. Yes, she did place herself in a bad situation with the flirting and then getting into his car. I asked her if she ever told him "No." She said that she was too afraid after he threatened her.

[/Quote]

 

She placed herself in a bad situation intentionally. The threat was nothing she could have anticipated, but look at the story on a whole. She got into a car of a guy who she had a prior-sexual liason with, after talking about sexual fantasies on IM, and speaking of having them in real life.

 

Guy Two

A week or so after the first guy, she told me that she was in need of telling someone. She didn't want to tell me because she was afraid of losing me. At that time I had a no tolerance stance on cheating and had told her that I would never stay with anyone who cheated on me. I really never considered an incident like this, or for her to feel like this was "cheating." So instead of talking to me, she turned to the only guy "friend" that she had. I say "friend" because this was a guy that she had been intimate with before we were together but they never actually dated. She didn't like him enough to actually start a relationship, and she really didn't consider him as much of a friend, but she was desperate and needed to talk to someone. This guy had liked her for a long time and had wanted to date her for a very long time...but she always turned him down. When she told him what happened, the only thing he was concerned with was himself. He was jealous/upset that she didn't cheat on me with him instead of the other guy (Yeah. a real "friend"). At this point, she told me that she thought our relationship was over because she thought I would leave her. Apparently, this guy also convinced her that she should just leave me because "obviously she cheated on me because she doesn't really care about me." She admits that she was at a very low point and didn't know where to turn..so she believed in what he was telling her. It's obvious that he had other motives. He just wanted her for himself. She told me that she felt that there was no way to repair our relationship and so she went with him. She told me that they didn't have sex...which she is extremely adamant about. After all of this, I can't really see her lying to me anymore...so I believe her. She performed oral on him.. but stopped before anything more happened. She began crying in the car and yelled at him and herself. Screaming about how she ruined her relationship, how she hurt me, how she felt like the * * * * *, etc. She said the whole time, the guy was mad because she was doing this. Again, he wasn't being a "friend." All he cared about was himself..nothing for her.

 

Man number two. She thought the relationship was over, so she cheated. What happens when you have actual problems instead of imaginary ones? Actual truth instead of imaginary lies?

 

Afterwards

She broke all contact with both guys. I know that she never called them on her cell phone (we share a plan and I have detailed billing) and after September, there were no more IM logs from those two guys. She still felt scared to tell me, because she felt I'd leave her. So she never told me. During all of this, I had no idea.. everything was perfect from my perspective. She never hinted at anything ever being wrong.. she hid it very well. We had known each other for over a year by this point, and I had started falling for her before we actually started dating.. so by December I was madly in love with her. So when I found out... I couldn't uphold my "no tolerance on cheating stance." I was devastated by all of this.. and not really sure how to handle it. I was mad at her for talking to the first guy which started all of this. I was hurt because she felt like she couldn't talk to me. I was full of hatred for both of these guys. I just fell apart. Was completely numb. But I just couldn't end our relationship. I don't think any of this is a lie. We've talked extensively about all of this. She's answered all of my questions..and through all of this we've been very supportive of each other. It's the end of February.. I found out at the beginning of December..so I've had a lot of time to digest everything and am finally getting over the pain. At the same time, though, I don't feel that I can be completely mad at her because of this story.

 

You can. Sounds like she just wanted sex and is a cheater, honestly.

 

Let me sum this all up to justify:

 

She was coerced. It is not rape by any legal definition, either.

 

However, I am not focusing on that. What he did was, well, by common morale standards... disgusting.

 

She put herself in the situation. I'm not talking about the situation of sex coercion. I'm talking about possibility. What if it had gone some other way and they just ended up having sex? Thats what would have probably happened had he not threatened her. They would have had sex anyways.

[treefrogkate]

She put herself in the situation. I'm not talking about the situation of sex coercion. I'm talking about possibility. What if it had gone some other way and they just ended up having sex? Thats what would have probably happened had he not threatened her. They would have had sex anyways.

 

I'm going to try and be as civil and level-headed about this as possible, but it seems from your other posts that you have a poor attitude toward women in general, passing off judgements on women very, very quickly and without very much information (she's bipolar, she's a cheater, etc).

 

1. According to the rape "rules" you posted, doesn't #5 ring a bell? He threatened not to take her back unless he performed oral on him.

 

2. Just because someone talks about a fantasy does not mean that they a) necessarily want to make it real or b) deserve to get sexually assaulted.

 

3. They would have had sex anyways? So you are omniscient, then?!?

 

Speaking as someone who was raped repeatedly by her ex-husband (don't bother responding if you're going to tell me it wasn't rape because I was married to him), you don't always know how to fight back, you go along with it because you are afraid and just want to get the f- out of there.

 

To the OP: This has got to be one of the hardest things you've ever had to deal with. If you are satisfied that she is telling you the truth about both situations, then I'm not going to question that. you know her better than we do. I applaud you for sticking by your girl.

 

I would talk to her and suggest telling the campus police about what happened with her ex. He threatened her unless she provided him with a sexual act, I think she needs to report this.

[Enakmai]

I'm going to try and be as civil and level-headed about this as possible, but it seems from your other posts that you have a poor attitude toward women in general, passing off judgements on women very, very quickly and without very much information (she's bipolar, she's a cheater, etc).

 

No, not really.

 

1. According to the rape "rules" you posted, doesn't #5 ring a bell? He threatened not to take her back unless he performed oral on him.

 

"to kidnap, imprison, inflict extreme pain, serious bodily injury, or death."

 

2. Just because someone talks about a fantasy does not mean that they a) necessarily want to make it real or b) deserve to get sexually assaulted.

 

I did not consider it assault. I consider it disgusting, and morally, I do consider it rape. Legally, it isn't. No one deserves to get raped. Well, I'd pass for someone like Hitler, but you get the point.

 

3. They would have had sex anyways? So you are omniscient, then?!?

 

I said probably. And the evidence supports it.

 

Speaking as someone who was raped repeatedly by her ex-husband (don't bother responding if you're going to tell me it wasn't rape because I was married to him),

 

Not a good assumption. I sure as hell believe Husbands can rape their wives.

 

you don't always know how to fight back, you go along with it because you are afraid and just want to get the f- out of there. [/Quote]

 

Agreed.

 

To the OP: This has got to be one of the hardest things you've ever had to deal with. If you are satisfied that she is telling you the truth about both situations, then I'm not going to question that. you know her better than we do. I applaud you for sticking by your girl.

 

My opinion differs here, I think she is a cheater.

 

I would talk to her and suggest telling the campus police about what happened with her ex. He threatened her unless she provided him with a sexual act, I think she needs to report this.

 

Nothing can be done, but chances are this * * * * * could and has committed rape, and it would be a very good idea to tell them about it.