hi, what's the difference between a woman's male friend and

[sfboi415]

her male lover? If a man wanted to start relating to a woman who has plenty of strictly platonic guy friends, what steps should he do from the very beginning to make sure he doesn't stay as her platonic friend forever?

[Superfreak]

Usualy the difference is honesty. Too many guys play it safe and act like there interested in a simple friendship at first rather than taking a risk and making your attraction to the girl known from the start. A girl can't put you in the "friendzone" if you don't give her the option of being "just friends"

[mystik]

Usualy the difference is honesty. Too many guys play it safe and act like there interested in a simple friendship at first rather than taking a risk and making your attraction to the girl known from the start. A girl can't put you in the "friendzone" if you don't give her the option of being "just friends"

 

Very true. And if she rejects you, at least you know from the start. You don't have to proclaim your love for her, but make it pretty obvious with the flirting. Then see how she responds.

[CamGuy]

Yea, dont get stuck in the friends zone.

[orgasmictofu]

Seeing as I have TONS of guy friends, more so than lady friends, I can tell you that if a guy is interested in more than a friendship to just come out and say something right off the bat. And in my experience that's what has happened. And I let them down easily and we continue to be friends.

[blimpshoes]

I'm not really sure but I think its about establishing from the beginning that you're not like her other male friends. You have to be willing to cut off ties when you start getting the feeling that she's treating you as one of her guy friends. Sometimes it all depends on the girl. They know from the first few seconds the talk to you if they want to be with you or just be a friend. Somehow you have to establish attraction from the very beginning. How to do it? I don't really know but some of my friends are really good with it.

[PocoDiablo]

hi, what's the difference between a woman's male friend and .... her male lover? If a man wanted to start relating to a woman who has plenty of strictly platonic guy friends, what steps should he do from the very beginning to make sure he doesn't stay as her platonic friend forever?

Ask her on a date.

 

I wrote a article on this here:

 

Why you must ask her out on a date:

link removed

 

Has this ever happened to you? You meet a nice woman, you have a good connection (aka "Chemistry") and end up talking to her for a while. Then you run into her a while later, say hi, and still everything seems great. After running into her a few more times you start to get the idea that she may like you. So then a few weeks later you go to ask her out, but she is cold, distant, and won't say hi. Worse, when you do ask her, she says "Oh, let's just be friends."

 

Yeah, you got Friendzoned.

 

But do you know why? Of course, we can all respect the fact that you did not ask her out because you did not want to appear to pushy, too aggressive, or just after sex. But did you realize that there is a good chance your lack of action may have sent a very bad message to her. You in fact may have told her "I am not asking you out because you are too fat, too ugly, or too stupid for me." You could also be sending the message of "I am gay, I am sexually inexperienced, or I am taken." Which is worse? Probably the first one, because it's an insult to her. That's right, you may have actually insulted her by not asking her out!

 

Most men who are confident understand that they must ask a woman out on a date to find out if they have any chemistry with each other. Unless you take that step, you'll never be able to present yourself in the light of being a mature and adult male who is interested in a partner for a mature relationship. And face it, women expect to get hit on by guys. While they may turn you down (by giving excuses or not answering their phone when you call their number) at the same time you did compliment them AND tell them you are a mature and adult male.

 

And face it, women have been expecting men to hit on them, and when a guy doesn't do that ... it's an insult. It leaves the woman wondering what's wrong. She will most likely doubt her appearance (looks, body, weight) and that's just not a good thing.

 

Click the link to read the rest. It's a work in progress, and has a few concepts to think about, but the basis is that a mature man will make his intentions clear from the start.

 

Most immature guys will try to be friends first, come accross as non-sexual - or sexually ambiguant - and then wonder why she's sleeping with some other guy.

 

My rule of thumb is to get her number and ask her on a date within 3-5 times of meeting her or you're most likely going to get friendzoned.

[Tigris]

Don't 'beat about the bush' tell her exactly how you feel and what you want.

 

Good luck

[sfboi415]

Hey everyone, these are excellent replies. To add my two cents to it, I believe that I should throw the initial phone conversations out of the window because it communicates to her: "I like talking to you from a distance because I don't feel comfortable yet talking to you in person". I made alot of phone conversations with the girls that I wanted to like and thereforeeee my approaches were passive. Never do that anymore..

 

But let's say I've already suggested to her about hanging out at a coffee shop within the 3rd or 4th time that I've met her, and so we hang out. She notices that I'm not the passive type and is impressed that I'm taking action sooner than later. HOWEVER at the end of our coffee outing, she finally judges me as a friend instead of someone she could date now. Was it because I didn't flirt with her enough or in the right way that pushed her romantic buttons?

[Tigris]

It's because you never said you'd like to date her and she thinks you only want to be her friend.

 

Go and get her!

 

Good luck

[monsieur]

Mystik (or any other girls) could you give some exact examples of "flirting" that actually worked on you before? I don't even know where to start, and I am hopeless in always getting friendzoned, even with girls that I found out later were crazy about me at first, but then I blow it and they lose that 'crazy for me' feeling.

 

so what are some exact examples of flirting? please

[PocoDiablo]

Here's a motto for you that you should try: "Never be serious."

 

If she asks how old you are, say "Guess." Make her guess at least twice, and then *maybe* tell her. Maybe not.

 

If she asks what you do for a living, tell her you're a rock star.

 

Make fun of her (gently!) for her ... taste in drinks ("Do you want some coffee in that sugar?"), a hole in her clothing ("Went all out for our date, huh?"), or a bad joke she made ("Flunked the stand-up comedy class, huh?")

 

Flirting is nothing more than NOT being serious.

 

Lean back, look her in the eye, don't talk about other women, don't talk about cars, computers, sex, drugs, guns, the WEATHER , politics, religion, the news, tools, your ex, her ex, or anything that could be depressing. Don't talk about anything offensive.

 

Talk about stuff that is upbeat, and if you can't think of anything make something up.

 

Don't touch her first, let her make 99% of physical contact on your first date.

 

Don't look at any other women. Stand up straight, lean back and relax. Don't fidgit. Move slowly. Look good, smell good, brush your teeth (I've got Halitosis, didn't know it ... oops!) and floss and use mouthwash.

 

Be yourself. Chill out.

 

Don't take crap. Don't be a "Yes man" and agree with everything she says. Make fun of her.

 

Listen for double meanings in conversation and work it if you can. Think. Talk slowly so you can think more.

 

Stuff like that.

[PocoDiablo]

I believe that I should throw the initial phone conversations out of the window because it communicates to her: "I like talking to you from a distance because I don't feel comfortable yet talking to you in person".

So it says you lack confidence? That's a bad thing.

 

I made alot of phone conversations with the girls that I wanted to like and thereforeeee my approaches were passive. Never do that anymore..

Right. The phone is a tool to be used to ask her out on a date, not communicate. Limit phone calls to 5 minutes maximum. Me? 2-3 minutes max.

 

But let's say I've already suggested to her about hanging out at a coffee shop within the 3rd or 4th time that I've met her, and so we hang out.

It's because you never said you'd like to date her and she thinks you only want to be her friend.

Bingo.

 

She notices that I'm not the passive type and is impressed that I'm taking action sooner than later. HOWEVER at the end of our coffee outing, she finally judges me as a friend instead of someone she could date now. Was it because I didn't flirt with her enough or in the right way that pushed her romantic buttons?

Yeah. You were boring. Think about her body language. Was she looking around, acting bored? What were you doing to keep her involved in the conversation? In fact, was she talking 90% of the time? The point of the date is to get to know her. You want to walk out knowing 10 times as much about her as she knows about you. Ask her lots of questions and make fun of her, and give her flirting/funny answers to stuff she asks you.

 

Think of it like this: You're a book. Every time you tell her something she gets closer to the end of the book. As soon as the book is read, she's going to toss you and find another book. So ... tell her LESS about yourself. We all read books to get to the end, right? Well, what's the point of reading a book that says "This book will end with everyone living happily ever after." That's boring! Some of the best books don't even have endings!

 

Get it?

[monsieur]

Girls: is what Poco says true? You respond to guys that that are annoyingly indirect and argue or disagree with you? I'm feeling more hopeless than before because all of that stuff is so not me. I hate the game playing that goes along with all this stress.

[NJRon]

The trick is to not play games. It's not playing a game to be upfront about your intentions with a woman. While Poco's advice is good, if you can't act that way naturally, then it won't work. You need to be yourself. If you are insincere, it will shine through like a big red light.

 

However, that said, acting the way that Poco describes is flirtatious and comes from a natural place with confidence. I know that it is often how I act when I *don't* care about whether or not a girl likes me that results in the greatest chance that she will be interested? Why? Because I am free ot be my total and complete self. To be completely sincere, to joke and flirt freely without fear of how they will react, and, in general, to treat them like a real human being and not some goal.

[mystik]

Poco and NJRon are completely right. All those things are awesome...yet if you are completely forcing it, and are obviously uncomfortable, it's not going to work. There is nothing worse than a guy trying to act chill when you can tell he has rehearsed his lines and is so awkward. If you can't feel comfortable doing it, just be yourself.

 

It's not that a guy is being annoyingly indirect, it's just cute when they make fun of you. You can also tell that a girl likes you if she is making fun of you. It just brings a smile to everyone's face. So long as you're not saying MEAN things, but just joking around.

 

It's not like we like men who say no to everything we say. We don't like men who have to disagree with EVERYTHING we say, nor do we like other women who do that lol. BUT, someone who is willing to stick up for his opinions, is going to argue with you about something smart, is going to jokingly be like "nah you're wrong" is much better than a "yes, yes, yes" man. It's not attractive if you're going to just agree with everything we say. There is nothing with disagreeing. It's just how you choose to disagree (difference between an jerk or someone who is up to discussing). Don't agree with us just for the sake of us liking you - that will only backfire on you.

[heythere1234]

That's simple. One's getting some and ones not!

[monsieur]

heythere, I'm assuming you are female

 

Is that really true? the whole thing comes down to sex???? So if a woman wants sex from you, you are in for all the rest of the benefits, but if a woman doesn't want sex with you then forget about the deep connection and emotional bonding too??

 

How disappointing.

[PocoDiablo]

You're missing the point - the woman wants a HUSBAND (sex) or a CHILD (no sex). If she won't have sex with you, how are you going to father children? Sex means you are mature enough to consider having a long term relationship with.

[Dating Coach]

Sex means you are mature enough to consider having a long term relationship with.

 

From a clinically sane (datable) woman.

[heythere1234]

heythere, I'm assuming you are female

 

Is that really true? the whole thing comes down to sex???? So if a woman wants sex from you, you are in for all the rest of the benefits, but if a woman doesn't want sex with you then forget about the deep connection and emotional bonding too??

 

How disappointing.

 

Geez, Monsuer, I didn't say anything remotely like that (?).

[monsieur]

quote: That's simple. One's getting some and ones not!

 

 

Maybe I'm being over sensitive, but your above comment made it sound like the whole thing is about sex or no sex.

[heythere1234]

Difference between a male friend and a male LOVER, monsuer, it IS simple, and it is about sex or no sex, duh!

[NJRon]

Yeah, I'd have to agree that that is the basic difference.

[monsieur]

So you are saying there is no such thing as no sex before marriage?

 

I think you guys are really disappointing.

 

I know for me I could be totally in love with a girl, a total lover of that girl, and want to cuddle and hold and be with her all the time, more than just a friend, and no sex has to be involved.... sex could come later, and it would be great, but it shouldn't be the defining thing involved.

 

It sickens me because I see slimy guys get a girl to have sex right off the bat, and instantly it is a 'lover' relationship, whereas a good guy might court and develop a quality quality relationship with a girl and fall deeply in love with her for many many months and not have to have sex involved. Which relationship is better may I ask?