This ever happend to you?

[dan_j]

Hi,

Has this ever happened to you? Because it happens to me alot and I am in the middle or this situaiton right now.

 

I really like this girl. I got to know her and start hanging out with her. I never told her how I felt but it seems like she likes me. But... it seems as though everytime I am going after her, and this is happening more and more and when that happens it seems she is losing interest. It sucks because I want something with this girl but I am doing all the actions and all the hints that I want something and am getting very few back. Like seinfeld says I want the upper hand in the relationship but it really seems impossible for me. When I give up on girls in situations like this, they sometimes call later or come talk to me at the bar but any chemistry we had is gone by then. Damn. I wish I was so irrestiable that this girl was just all over me.

[monsieur]

yeah, all the time, you can be the most good looking and nicest guy, but without the 'game' you lose them everytime, whereas the guy with game might not get the first glance, but if he can get in a conversation with the girl he is in....

 

sucks to be shy and not confident, lose the sure things over and over again

[PocoDiablo]

The longer you wait to ask her out, the less likely your chances for success.

 

You don't have to be irresistible, you just have to ask them on a date! See my signature for some articles you should read.

 

Men don't drop hints, they make their intentions clear by asking a woman out. Next time, within 2-3 times of meeting her, ask her out. This one was probably somewhat insulted or hurt that you did not ask her out, which is why she's not interested any more! Get it? Just like you're hurt something did not happen, so is she because she expects the guy to ask the girl out.

 

Once you get that simple concept down, you WILL be irresistible.

[monsieur]

There is also the possibility that she was interested in you as friends only, so when you didn't hit on her right away she felt comfortable to proceed, but when you change all of the sudden and make moves that make it seem like you are there for more than friendship then she will pull away.

 

I think Poco is right, if you are looking for friends only, then continue with that approach, if you are looking for more you have to be upfront right away... the result will be making less friends, but if having a relationship is the important thing for you then you will know very quickly that you will have to move on.

[ShySoul]

Odds are these girls are simple not interested to begin with. It wouldn't matter if you dropped all kinds of clues or if you asked her right away. Chances are you will still get the same reaction, that of uncertainty on how to proceed on her part.

 

The key is to follow your heart. Don't look for signs, don't try to give out signs. Just concentrate on building up the friendship and nothing more. See where things go. When the time is right, just say what you feel. Doesn't have to be right away, can take a long time. Just act on what you feel and things work out as they are suppose to. If she isn't interested, don't beat yourself up over it, realize it wasn't right.

[dan_j]

ShySoul, I agree with you totally.

I really don't think she is interested, but when I do not show interest she starts to become interested. My good friend is not the most amazing looking guy either but he has beautiful girlfriend that just loves him, you know what he did.. just plays it cool, never tells her how amzing she is (but he does show that he cares), or how lucky he is to have her.. and he even avoided the relationship until she liked him enough. He doesn't rush to call her and hes not readily available for her. He also shows confidence and remains cool over every situation, does not get mad at her much. He still shows some game and makes smooths moves on her also. I really have to learn from this because I am basically the oposite or that. Remind me to read this post (mine I just wrote over and over).

[monsieur]

I've got a buddy, he is a little bit portly and not really what you would expect to be called 'handsome', yet his girlfriend is absolutely beautiful, could be in magazines, blonde, perfect face and figure, tall and maybe 110 lbs.... whenever anyone new meets them the comments are always the same "how did he ever manage to land her"...... but the point of my story, he actually went so far as to dump her at one point, and she ended up crying and begging to go back, so he took her back and they have been together ever since..... I noticed that right from the start he seemed to be able to keep her thinking she was expendable, whereas most guys that would be with her would be crazy worried that they were not worthy or would lose her.

 

Weird how psychology works.

[SwimmerBR]

dan_j,

 

I haven´t had time to read the entire post, so what I´m writing, may as well have been written before. I know it´s hard for a shy person to approach, but I´ll be always telling people to do so, because, ultimately it´s better to regret something you´ve done, that something you did not (if only I could listen to my own advice).

 

This last girlfriend of mine told me once, that we hooked up in the last minute, she was almost giving up on us. That´s how long I made her wait (and I almost wussed out on the last minute too -- and she is a gorgeous brunnete... that´s how shy I am ).

 

But if you´re still gathering your strenght to approach her, I think it does not hurt to hint her what a shy person you are. I know I´ve done this before, casually on a conversation, dropping hints that I´m shy, saying things like "if I were not so shy I would do this or that activity... I´d like to have the guts to approach people I like, but I really freeze..." ... I know, it may sound corny and desperate, but it worked for me before. And if the girl is really into you, at least she´ll know what she is dealing with, because shyness sometimes give them the (wrong) impression that you´re not interested at all.

 

There were times I could not stand to be in the same room with the girl I liked because I´d be panicking in my head. And she would always think (wrongfully) that I could not stand her company, that she annoyed the hell out of me. So not true

 

It´s almost hilarious a bunch of shy guys telling each other to "go for it". But ultimately it always comes down to that.

[PocoDiablo]

I really don't think she is interested, but when I do not show interest she starts to become interested.

Anyone can build interest. Anyone can make someone interested in them. You're pre-judging her without any valid data here, and it's a big mistake. So long as there is some chemistry between two people, you can always build it. To just say "Oh, she's not interested because she has not asked me out" is a cop-out in my opinion. Until you ask her on a date and she gives you an excuse, you don't know anything and this is all just mentally jerking yourself around. This is like coming up to a green light while you are driving and saying "Oh, this light is going to turn red pretty soon" and stopping at a green light. That's what you are doing here.

 

My good friend is not the most amazing looking guy either but he has beautiful girlfriend that just loves him, you know what he did.. just plays it cool, never tells her how amzing she is (but he does show that he cares), or how lucky he is to have her..

Ah, he's a "Steve." (Go watch "The Tao of Steve" to see what I am talking about.) Personality is king, let me tell you. This is why you see all sorts of amazing women with the most unlikely looking guys. It's the very fact that they act like a man! I know some really good looking guys who are *complete* jerks. They are arrogant, rude, pigs ... and they wonder why women won't stay with them. And I know a lot of normal, average guys who have the most amazing women. It's simply because of who they are - they're mature.

 

and he even avoided the relationship until she liked him enough.

He was a challenge, not a desperate push-over. Plain and simple.

 

He doesn't rush to call her and hes not readily available for her.

Shows that he is independent and confident that she will stay with him.

 

He also shows confidence and remains cool over every situation, does not get mad at her much.

Self-control. A very important trait to master.

 

He still shows some game and makes smooths moves on her also.

He maintains and builds attraction, and is flirty and fun to be with.

 

I really have to learn from this because I am basically the oposite or that.

Dude, this guy is an artist. You need to go talk to HIM about advice, because he can tell you a LOT more about what you need to do than any of us can do typing on the Internet. Offer to buy him dinner, drinks, whatever it takes, and get him alone. Beg HIM for advice. I'd put money that I know the source of his knowledge, too. He's got all the traits of Doc Love, and that's why she's all over him. You nailed them, too, when you talked about him. Down to the Three C's. Go ask him if he's read Doc Love.

 

Remind me to read this post (mine I just wrote over and over).

Hey, read this post over and over!

 

I've got a buddy, he is a little bit portly and not really what you would expect to be called 'handsome', yet his girlfriend is absolutely beautiful, could be in magazines, blonde, perfect face and figure, tall and maybe 110 lbs.... whenever anyone new meets them the comments are always the same "how did he ever manage to land her"...... but the point of my story, he actually went so far as to dump her at one point, and she ended up crying and begging to go back, so he took her back and they have been together ever since..... I noticed that right from the start he seemed to be able to keep her thinking she was expendable, whereas most guys that would be with her would be crazy worried that they were not worthy or would lose her.

Another "Steve." And I'd bet he's done some work as well. Same as above.

 

Weird how psychology works.

Yeah, but it WORKS.

 

I think it does not hurt to hint her what a shy person you are.

I gotta disagree with this one. You need to simply have confidence. Telling her you are child-like is setting the stage to get her to dump you. It's not adult. It's not really attractive in the sense of "Oh, he's a great man." Sure, you may get some results, but what woman is going to tell you "I'd rather have a weak-acting boyfriend instead of a mature and confident man" and really mean it? Sure, there are some, but chances are a woman wants a man who makes her feel like a woman, not a caretaker. Coming accross by dropping hints is putting her in charge of asking you out, and women simply don't do that. (Sure, some do, let's not get into absolutes here, that's not the point.) Women expect the man to be the man and ask her out, open doors, pay for the date, try to kiss her at some point. That is the way the courting process works, has always worked, and probably always will work. To deny that is to wonder why you're single.

 

Just stop thinking about things so much and make the move.

[dan_j]

Poco, I agree with you, but I think you are contridictiing yourself alittle?

My friend "Steve" basically let this beautiful girl come to him, but you are telling me to go ask her on a date? How does this work? If I say "You know, I don't usually ask out many girls, but me and you seem to get along really well, would you want to go out sometime?" It gives her complete control and shows me as a pushover, something you said "steve" was not. He was a challenge.

[PocoDiablo]

Poco, I agree with you, but I think you are contridictiing yourself alittle?

I am? Please help me out, I don't quite understand how.

 

My friend "Steve" basically let this beautiful girl come to him, but you are telling me to go ask her on a date?

Sure, but I'd love to know the details. I bet it's not all that simple. I mean ... really, he had to flirt with her, talk to her, or something. I doubt she just walked up and said "Here's my number, call me." did she? This happens to super models and those guys don't need help!

 

How does this work? If I say "You know, I don't usually ask out many girls, but me and you seem to get along really well, would you want to go out sometime?"

Well, THAT won't work at all. No way! You're saying "You know, I am pathetic and I expect to get shot down, but I have talked to you once and now I am going to blow it." Seriously, if I said that, I'd get shot down fast. Show *some* confidence!

 

Just get her number. Be confident, like you're asking for her to pass the salt. Matter of fact. "Hey, pass the salt. Oh, give me your phone number too. Hey, get the ketchup while you're getting the salt, please."

 

Start with Hi. Then talk to her, see if there is any chemistry. Don't talk about cars, computers, the weather, school, political stuff, drugs, guns, religion, death, or anything depressing. Ask what is a cool place to go. If she doesn't know any place, make a joke like "What, you don't have a social life? You can pay me and I'll be your friend. Just $20 a day." FLIRT and see if you get along. If she doesn't laugh, then she's not a cool person. Just be yourself and take a few minutes to get to know her.

 

The point of going on a date is to get to know someone better. It allows you to talk more, one on one, and that's the whole point. It also lets her know you are interested, and gives her a chance to let you know if SHE is interested or not (by giving excuses, see below.)

 

If she DOES seem like an interesting or interested person, then tell her "Hey, you seem like you might be a normal person, give me your number." and tell her you'll call her and ask her on a date. Notice that you are not asking - you are telling. You may want to try by asking if she has email first, and if she does then have her write it down. As she is writing it down, tell her to put her phone number there.

 

Now, you need to wait about 5-7 days to call her back, which is why you don't tell her WHEN you're going to call. You want to create a little anticipation so you can judge how interested she is in you.

 

Call her. Make a little small talk, then ask her out.

 

Him: Hey, how would you like to go on a date with me, say this Thursday to the wonderfully exciting Starbucks at 4th and G streets downtown, say Tuesday at 7:00? I hear they have monster truck racing that night.

 

Now, you will get one of three responses, as follows:

 

1. Acceptance

Her: Oooh, yeah, that would be great. I'll bring my ear plugs.

 

2. Acceptance with a counter offer

Her: Oooh, yeah, that would be great, but I have class that night. Can we do Wednesday instead?

 

3. Excuse (turn down)

Her: Oooh, yeah, that would be great, but I have class that night.

 

Notice the first two are acceptance, and she's going to be there. The third one, however, is an EXCUSE. Most women cannot just flat out say "Hey, you know what, I'm just not that into you, so I can't go on a date." or "No." basically. Instead, they give you EXCUSES.

 

Notice the first two options - a yes and a yes with an excuse BUT also a counter offer. This shows she is interested and wants to see you. But the third one ... no counter offer, just an excuse. Believe me I have heard all sorts of excuses, like...

 

> I have to have an important talk with my brother

> I'm not sure I can make it

> I have to work

> I have plans already

> I have to floss my cat's teeth

 

Now you have two opportunities of what to do here. The first it to accept the fact that she may not quite like you yet, or at all for that matter. If you moved too fast and asked her on a date without making small talk and seeing if there was *any* chemistry there, then you deserve to get shot down. You cannot just walk up to a woman, talk for 30-60 seconds, and ask her on a date. You actually have to get to know her a *little* and see if you guys click. So, in that case, you accept the excuse and move on.

 

The second is to blow through the excuses. This is a show of confidence and may or may not work. In the past, I have heard every stupid excuse and I will totally call her on it. "What? That's the lamest excuse I have ever heard. Is that the best you can do?" or "Come on, I've heard that a million times. You really need to try harder to shoot me down." or "That was really sad. You're not doing anything, and I can tell. What, are you afraid to go out and have a good time? And here I thought you could have been a cool person!" Then you tease her for not being able to have a good time, and see where it goes. If you can do this with confidence you may get a date. But you still have a lot of work to do.

 

This is from my article linked in my signature. You should *really* read the whole thing, it's got a LOT more details.

 

It gives her complete control and shows me as a pushover, something you said "steve" was not. He was a challenge.

Now if you say "Give me your phone number. And the salt." How does that give her control?

[PocoDiablo]

I shuodl add...

 

How does this work?

 

Of course, we can all respect the fact that you did not ask her out because you did not want to appear to pushy, too aggressive, or just after sex. But did you realize that there is a good chance your lack of action may have sent a very bad message to her. You in fact may have told her "I am not asking you out because you are too fat, too ugly, or too stupid for me." You could also be sending the message of "I am gay, I am sexually inexperienced, or I am taken." Which is worse? Probably the first one, because it's an insult to her. That's right, you may have actually insulted her by not asking her out!

 

Most men who are confident understand that they must ask a woman out on a date to find out if they have any chemistry with each other. Unless you take that step, you'll never be able to present yourself in the light of being a mature and adult male who is interested in a partner for a mature relationship. And face it, women expect to get hit on by guys. While they may turn you down (by giving excuses or not answering their phone when you call their number) at the same time you did compliment them AND tell them you are a mature and adult male.

 

(Also from my article.) See, all your questions answered!

 

No, seriously, give me more details and we can take it from there.

[SwimmerBR]

I think it does not hurt to hint her what a shy person you are.

 

I gotta disagree with this one. You need to simply have confidence. Telling her you are child-like is setting the stage to get her to dump you. It's not adult. It's not really attractive in the sense of "Oh, he's a great man." Sure, you may get some results, but what woman is going to tell you "I'd rather have a weak-acting boyfriend instead of a mature and confident man" and really mean it? Sure, there are some, but chances are a woman wants a man who makes her feel like a woman, not a caretaker. Coming accross by dropping hints is putting her in charge of asking you out, and women simply don't do that. (Sure, some do, let's not get into absolutes here, that's not the point.) Women expect the man to be the man and ask her out, open doors, pay for the date, try to kiss her at some point. That is the way the courting process works, has always worked, and probably always will work. To deny that is to wonder why you're single.

 

I see where you´re coming from Poco, and I agree to an extent. But the thing is, it is my belief that it´s better to make some move, than no move at all.

 

Say, if this girl is already into him, and now she realises he is a shy person, will she change her mind all of a sudden?

 

"oh, I was so into him, he is [quality], [quality], [quality] and [great quality], but now I realize he is shy. That makes him so flawed I´m gonna flirt with someone else..." ?

 

I can´t really say I see that happening. A girl may have a first impression that a guy is not into her, when in fact he is just shy. She may even be one of those girls that find shyness endearing, who knows? Do american girls get that bad of an impression from a guy if they need to make the first move? I know brazilian girls don´t. Then again, it may be a cultural thing.

 

I agree wholeheartdly that confidence in yourself is always the best way to go, but I for one don´t think that a shy person can build that kind of confidence overnight. It´s a work in progress. In the mean time, why don´t use other tools at his disposal? He might be setting himself for failure? He might, who knows? But what good comes from sitting still, doing nothing?

 

But once again, kudos to you for being so confident. You´re an older guy and it seems you speak from personal experience and have waaaay more experience in your jacket than most.

 

I wish and I´m working on getting on that level, not just regarding girls, but in everyday life.

 

edit -- this reply sounds like I´ve been personally offended. It´s not, in fact it might as well be just the opposite. I´m here to learn!

[dan_j]

poco, great advice friend.

I have a quetion for you though. It has always been my nature to wnat to ask, or I have actually asked if a girl likes me or is actually interested in me. I know this is a bad idea but can you explain to me why it is? If she is interested why would htis do any harm?

[PocoDiablo]

I see where you´re coming from Poco, and I agree to an extent. But the thing is, it is my belief that it´s better to make some move, than no move at all.

Same here.

 

Say, if this girl is already into him, and now she realises he is a shy person, will she change her mind all of a sudden?

 

"oh, I was so into him, he is [quality], [quality], [quality] and [great quality], but now I realize he is shy. That makes him so flawed I´m gonna flirt with someone else..." ?

I don't see *that* happening as much as her thinking "Why hasn't he made a move? What's wrong with me? He must not like me. He probably thinks I am too fat, too ugly, or something." You know that happens to you, too, when someone won't talk to you. Right?

 

I can´t really say I see that happening. A girl may have a first impression that a guy is not into her, when in fact he is just shy. She may even be one of those girls that find shyness endearing, who knows? Do american girls get that bad of an impression from a guy if they need to make the first move? I know brazilian girls don´t. Then again, it may be a cultural thing.

Brazilian women are a creature all their own, lemme tell you! Nothing like American women in my experience. American women, in my experience, do not make the first move unless they are *really* attracted to a guy.

 

I agree wholeheartdly that confidence in yourself is always the best way to go, but I for one don´t think that a shy person can build that kind of confidence overnight.

Maybe you should read this ... thread ... over ... here ....

 

He did it. (Ran out of smilies, ugh!)

 

It´s a work in progress. In the mean time, why don´t use other tools at his disposal? He might be setting himself for failure? He might, who knows? But what good comes from sitting still, doing nothing?

I think we agree. You gotta do something!

 

But once again, kudos to you for being so confident. You´re an older guy and it seems you speak from personal experience and have waaaay more experience in your jacket than most.

 

I wish and I´m working on getting on that level, not just regarding girls, but in everyday life.

 

edit -- this reply sounds like I´ve been personally offended. It´s not, in fact it might as well be just the opposite. I´m here to learn!

Well, we all learn as we go. And I don't take things personally, so good luck trying to offend me!!! I happen to run a few web sites myself with some real jerk offs, so you'll have to try a lot harder to upset me next time. Come on, give it your best shot! Heh heh. (Just kidding! Dont hurt me!)

[PocoDiablo]

poco, great advice friend.

I have a quetion for you though. It has always been my nature to wnat to ask, or I have actually asked if a girl likes me or is actually interested in me. I know this is a bad idea but can you explain to me why it is? If she is interested why would htis do any harm?

It shows you lack confidence and are coming from a position of insecurity. It's basically saying "I am ill equipped to be in a relationship." in many ways. You are looking for validation from the woman, like a child asking their mother "Am I ugly?" and it's not something a mature and adult guy does. When was the last time you heard some guy tell you that, as a friend? Probably never. But children ask all the time ... ala, "So and so said I was dumb. I'm not dumb, am I?" or whatever. You, as an adult, are supposed to be in control of your emotions to some extent. The whole "boys don't cry" mentality goes a long way when you're with a woman, believe it or not.

 

All you have to do is avoid serious topics like that whenever possible. Flirt, joke, etc. but don't act like you're insecure. It's interesting - you don't have to act confident as much as you *can't* act insecure and a woman will enjoy your company. I find most women don't want a guy to be their friend, holding their head when they cry, as much as a guy who is exciting, fun to be with, and confident.

 

What can I say? Women want mature men. Why do you think so many younger women date older men?

[ShySoul]

What can I say? Women want mature men. Why do you think so many younger women date older men?

 

Age does not equate to maturity though. I know plenty of older men who are far from mature and many younger guys who are light years ahead in that department. And there are plenty of girls who like younger guys. Even more who honestly, don't give a darn and will go out with someone not for the age, not for the maturity or way he approaches things, but simple for the person.

[Markers]

I don't see *that* happening as much as her thinking "Why hasn't he made a move? What's wrong with me? He must not like me. He probably thinks I am too fat, too ugly, or something." You know that happens to you, too, when someone won't talk to you. Right?

I don't see that helping her to stop liking you. The attraction is gonna remain there. It might be insulting to some but most girls I know have enough brain not to get offended by the fact that someone is not attracted them. Of course it feels bad if your feelings are not returned but there you are.. Also, like I said, the attraction is not gonna just vanish immediately. If you make your move in time, before the attraction wears out, you still have your chance: would YOU say "get lost" to a girl who you're attracted to and asks you out? Of course some people are better at getting over someone than others. For some it takes weeks, for some it takes days, but for some it takes months.

[dan_j]

I think I figured it out... I have what you call "Nice guy syndrome". At first the girls are really into me. I am pretty attractive, successful with school and have a good job. I have lots of friends and at first impression I am probably a charming, funny young man. After we start talking I become the nice guy. The guy that is always calling back, or is really needy. This is how I lost my last girlfriend. I was too needy and clingy. At the time she could probably cheat on me and I would be right back there saying "oh, I know you won't do it again"." Due to myself being so nice, I have tons of friends and am very popular, but alot of people do take advantage of me. I need to start standing up for myself. As matter of fact, my ex was the opposite of Mr. Nice guy... she broke off plans, did what was best for her, and even acted like a * * * * * sometimes. And you know what? I was totally whipped on her.

[PocoDiablo]

Yeah, you need to act more like her. And Markers is right, women will not lose interest right away, but you *do* need to make a move sooner rather than later. My rule is within 2-3 times of meeting her I'll ask for her number - if I am interested.

 

Dan, your last post said it all. Re-read it over and over until you figure it out. That's the gold right there.