My ex went too far and now other people want to punish him.

[Cynder]

I'm a business owner.  I work at festivals as an artist/vendor.  I've been doing this since 2014 and it's been pretty lucrative for me.  From 2016 to 2019 I was in a relationship with another vendor who is a career vendor.  Like, most people in this line of work have other jobs.  He doesn't.  He also has a trust fund and his house is paid for, though, which makes it a lot easier.  He grew up in a wealthy family and doesn't really understand financial hardship or even what it's like to be an average person living within their means.  Like, when him and I were together he couldn't understand why I can't just go on a shopping spree when I get my paycheck.  He also couldn't understand why I can't just set my own hours at my day job.  He had never held down an actual W2 job in his life. 

As a vendor, he is an absolute pain in the ass to deal with.  Festival organizers hate him.  Other vendors hate him.  Etc.  He thinks he is special and exceptions to the rules should be made for him.  An average space at a festival is 10x10.  He will show up with his 12x12 tent and expect everyone around him to move over a little to accommodate his too-large tent.  And then he just doesn't understand why he can't do that.  Now most of the organizers have given him a special spot in a corner somewhere by himself where he doesn't have neighbors, just to shut him up and avoid the drama.  He also calls animal control on vendors who bring their pets to shows.  My current BF isn't a vendor but he works security at festivals and is a performer at some, also.  He has an exotic pet that he brings with him and my ex has called animal control on him twice since he found out we are dating. 

He has ruined a few people's reputations, too.  This girl he was obsessed with a while back (before we ever were together) is a vendor too and he has gotten her booted from every show in our area and she had to move her business elsewhere.  He is currently targeting me.  He has gotten me kicked out of multiple shows since 2019.  Last August he told a straight up lie about me and almost got me kicked out of the biggest show I do.  Fortunately I had several witnesses willing to back me up and I had proof that I didn't do what he said I did.  And the backlash from a lot of the other vendors was massive in this situation.  Since my ex is a known troublemaker and they had a meeting about this after the fact, a lot of other vendors showed up at the meeting to defend me and talk about what crap this is that he just gets to lie and get people kicked out who didn't do anything wrong.  In some cases it was because people know me and don't want to see their friend get screwed.  In other cases it was people who don't know me that well but don't want to be his next target.  

The festival scene is like a big awesome yet dysfunctional and incestuous family.  Everyone looks out for everyone.  My ex is like that one family member no one wants around but has to tolerate.  So, next summer at that same festival, a lot of the vendors are planning to pull somewhat of a stunt on my ex.  I can't really call it a prank because pranks are generally pulled on people we like.  This is something that will embarrass him in front of a lot of people.  And the goal is to get him to throw one of his legendary tantrums so he will get kicked out.  He is known for doing that.  He just has never done it at this event.  The organizers see him as a golden boy. 

As much as I think he deserves it, I don't want any part of this.  I feel like that is lowering ourselves to his level, for one.  But I also know he will try to say I set it up.  I've been told about it, and I already feel like that incriminates me.  But I wasn't the one who thought of it and I am not the one planning it.  And so far all the conversations about it have been face to face so there's no written proof that I didn't initiate it.  A lot of the same vendors were at a show a few weeks ago and that's when it was being talked about.  I was really careful what I said during any of the conversations because I don't want to be lumped in with this.  The people doing it could all get themselves kicked out also if they don't cover their tracks well enough.  

I know it's a long time between now and August.  It might not even happen.  I am a firm believer in karma.  Eventually he will get his anyway.  So I've never tried anything.  He already has a reputation for being a troublemaker and a liar.  I think he gets away with it because he probably is paying organizers off.  He has the money to do that. 

Anyway, is there anything I can do in this situation to protect myself?  I think I'm probably going down with the ship no matter what I do, unfortunately. 

[moodindigo91]

31 minutes ago, Cynder said:

The festival scene is like a big awesome yet dysfunctional and incestuous family.  Everyone looks out for everyone.

Honestly this all sounds super toxic. Is being a vendor something that's super important to you? Is there some other way you can do what you're doing now that doesn't necessarily require being part of festivals, etc.? I just think all of this sounds like a weird toxic bubble of an environment that isn't going to end well for most of the people involved. 

What does this stunt involve? Could there be legal ramifications for the people pulling the stunt? If this guy has lots of money, he has the money to commence lawsuits against all of you and use up your time, money and mental sanity dragging them on. Don't get involved with the planning in any way. You should not even be talking about it with anyone. Distance yourself from those involved in the planning. Tread carefully. 

If I were you, I would honestly be looking for different outlets to pursue your art. This is not healthy. 

[Cynder]

2 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

Honestly this all sounds super toxic. Is being a vendor something that's super important to you? Is there some other way you can do what you're doing now that doesn't necessarily require being part of festivals, etc.? I just think all of this sounds like a weird toxic bubble of an environment that isn't going to end well for most of the people involved. 

What does this stunt involve? Could there be legal ramifications for the people pulling the stunt? If this guy has lots of money, he has the money to commence lawsuits against all of you and use up your time, money and mental sanity dragging them on. Don't get involved with the planning in any way. You should not even be talking about it with anyone. Distance yourself from those involved in the planning. Tread carefully. 

If I were you, I would honestly be looking for different outlets to pursue your art. This is not healthy. 

My business is the most important thing in my life.  It's the only thing I have to be proud of.  I went to art school on a full ride.  I won't waste my degree sitting in an office somewhere at some regular 9-5 job that is, to be honest, more toxic than this could ever be.  And I've worked in that environment too.  So it's not like I have no experience.  So no, I'm not stopping.  I love what I do and I built my business up from nothing.  I have an amazing team of employees.  I have mentored other vendors.  I have a following in this community.  I'm not stopping.  I don't fit in anywhere else and I've found my tribe. 

I'm not going to go into all the details but what they are doing isn't illegal.  I don't plan on getting involved with the planning.  I'm asking how I can avoid it not whether or not I should help.  There are a handful of people planning on doing things that will just really annoy him.  Like, he flips his crap if anyone smokes in his tent.  Even though this is an outdoor venue and smoking is allowed.  So a bunch of people are planning on going into his tent while smoking just to get on his nerves.  He also flips crap if anyone near him burns incense.  The lady next to him hates him and plans on burning incense all weekend long just to get on his nerves.  It's stuff like that.  But then there is one big thing that some people are working on that will most likely make him snap and throw a fit.  He has a really bad temper.  I'm not saying I think any of this is right.  I mean, karma will get him.  But this is something they are planning to do.  You can't sue someone for burning incense, etc.  Even the big thing they are planning isn't illegal.  It's more like psychological torment. 

Ok... just for the sake of discussion, other than a person like my ex who likes to start drama and cause trouble (And I think just about every work place has one of those) and people trying to get back at him, tell me what's so toxic about the work I do?  I know this situation is toxic.  But what else makes this line of work toxic in your opinion?  I am wondering how much of it is based in reality and how much of it is based on stereotypes that I might be able to debunk. 

[MissCanuck]

These people sound no better than him. Extraordinarily immature and unprofessional. 

Good that you don't plan to be part of this. Have no part in any discussion in it. Make it clear you are not going to indulge in conversations about it, and walk away from any conversation about it. 

That's all you can do. 

[catfeeder]

I would just speak to the peeps and raise my concern that you fear getting blamed for anything they do, and you're asking for them to reconsider because of the harm that this could otherwise bring to you.

Lots of people like to just vent and brainstorm their way through things that they wouldn't actually do. Once you speak your mind, go peaceful about it. Shoot for a tent as far from the guy as possible, and focus on your art.

 

 

 

[moodindigo91]

19 hours ago, Cynder said:

My business is the most important thing in my life.  It's the only thing I have to be proud of.  I went to art school on a full ride.  I won't waste my degree sitting in an office somewhere at some regular 9-5 job that is, to be honest, more toxic than this could ever be.  And I've worked in that environment too.  So it's not like I have no experience.  So no, I'm not stopping.  I love what I do and I built my business up from nothing.  I have an amazing team of employees.  I have mentored other vendors.  I have a following in this community.  I'm not stopping.  I don't fit in anywhere else and I've found my tribe. 

I'm not going to go into all the details but what they are doing isn't illegal.  I don't plan on getting involved with the planning.  I'm asking how I can avoid it not whether or not I should help.  There are a handful of people planning on doing things that will just really annoy him.  Like, he flips his crap if anyone smokes in his tent.  Even though this is an outdoor venue and smoking is allowed.  So a bunch of people are planning on going into his tent while smoking just to get on his nerves.  He also flips crap if anyone near him burns incense.  The lady next to him hates him and plans on burning incense all weekend long just to get on his nerves.  It's stuff like that.  But then there is one big thing that some people are working on that will most likely make him snap and throw a fit.  He has a really bad temper.  I'm not saying I think any of this is right.  I mean, karma will get him.  But this is something they are planning to do.  You can't sue someone for burning incense, etc.  Even the big thing they are planning isn't illegal.  It's more like psychological torment. 

Ok... just for the sake of discussion, other than a person like my ex who likes to start drama and cause trouble (And I think just about every work place has one of those) and people trying to get back at him, tell me what's so toxic about the work I do?  I know this situation is toxic.  But what else makes this line of work toxic in your opinion?  I am wondering how much of it is based in reality and how much of it is based on stereotypes that I might be able to debunk. 

Your points are well taken about your business. I figured it was something extremely important to you, but was simply trying to suggest some alternatives. There's nothing toxic about your line of work or what you do, it's the work environment that's toxic. Your ex being who he is, and all the other people plotting some elaborate scheme to get back at him. It sounds more akin to a sitcom than real life. It just doesn't seem worth the stress and possible trouble unless what you're doing as a vendor is something that's extremely important to you and that cannot be easily translated into something just as rewarding if not more so. 

But, since it seems like it's something very important to you, I defer to my advice that you should not participate in planning any stunt to get back at your ex in any way. You should make it clear that you do not want to plan/participate to everyone involved. Maybe even suggest that they abandon the idea. If you truly believe karma will get him, let karma do its job. 

What you think is legal and illegal is not really relevant. A civil lawsuit does not necessarily require breaking any laws and deliberately intentionally causing someone "psychological torment" may be grounds for a lawsuit (where I reside the legal action is called intentional infliction of emotional distress). If you plan to cause someone emotional distress with others deliberately over a period of time, it's called a conspiracy. You can be sued for that, too, if participate in the planning, and even if you drop out of the process before the actual act is committed or don't participate in the actual stunt itself. That's why I would advise you to stay away from any planning and make it clear you do not wish to participate.

[Cynder]

41 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

Your points are well taken about your business. I figured it was something extremely important to you, but was simply trying to suggest some alternatives. There's nothing toxic about your line of work or what you do, it's the work environment that's toxic. Your ex being who he is, and all the other people plotting some elaborate scheme to get back at him. It sounds more akin to a sitcom than real life. It just doesn't seem worth the stress and possible trouble unless what you're doing as a vendor is something that's extremely important to you and that cannot be easily translated into something just as rewarding if not more so. 

But, since it seems like it's something very important to you, I defer to my advice that you should not participate in planning any stunt to get back at your ex in any way. You should make it clear that you do not want to plan/participate to everyone involved. Maybe even suggest that they abandon the idea. If you truly believe karma will get him, let karma do its job. 

What you think is legal and illegal is not really relevant. A civil lawsuit does not necessarily require breaking any laws and deliberately intentionally causing someone "psychological torment" may be grounds for a lawsuit (where I reside the legal action is called intentional infliction of emotional distress). If you plan to cause someone emotional distress with others deliberately over a period of time, it's called a conspiracy. You can be sued for that, too, if participate in the planning, and even if you drop out of the process before the actual act is committed or don't participate in the actual stunt itself. That's why I would advise you to stay away from any planning and make it clear you do not wish to participate.

Do you really think any lawyer would take a case where someone was suing someone else for burning incense or smoking outdoors?  My ex has been trying to sue me for years and I haven't been served with any papers.  He has money but he's not a millionaire.  Clearly the money he has can't buy a dream team of lawyers that could spin things like that into a real case.  Even if they do those things, how could he prove it was being done simply to annoy him?  He would have to prove that in court.  I'm not saying your whole point is invalid.  But I'm really not worried about being sued by him.  It's just not realistic. 

I'm already not participating in any of it.  I just don't want it all blamed on me.   

[moodindigo91]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

Even if they do those things, how could he prove it was being done simply to annoy him?  He would have to prove that in court.  I'm not saying your whole point is invalid. 

Haha I think it's entirely realistic. I work in civil litigation, and I have to defend bullsh*t cases without merit all the time. Perhaps since I work in the legal field I am a little more wary than you may be but I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility. 

Anyway, all of this is kind of a non-starter anyway if you're not planning to participate in the stunts. I would also tend to believe/hope that the planning of this stunt would probably fall by the wayside over the coming months. On the flip side, maybe you can sue your ex haha

Or, perhaps you can gather with your people who are making the plans and attempt to convince them to address the issue in another way, such as, by confronting your ex as a group intervention style or maybe there's a body/agency/entity you can report him to, something more kosher like that. I just highly doubt that annoying your ex even more is going to make the problems better. 

[Cynder]

16 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

Haha I think it's entirely realistic. I work in civil litigation, and I have to defend bullsh*t cases without merit all the time. Perhaps since I work in the legal field I am a little more wary than you may be but I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility. 

Anyway, all of this is kind of a non-starter anyway if you're not planning to participate in the stunts. I would also tend to believe/hope that the planning of this stunt would probably fall by the wayside over the coming months. On the flip side, maybe you can sue your ex haha

Or, perhaps you can gather with your people who are making the plans and attempt to convince them to address the issue in another way, such as, by confronting your ex as a group intervention style or maybe there's a body/agency/entity you can report him to, something more kosher like that. I just highly doubt that annoying your ex even more is going to make the problems better. 

Yea, I know there are some really dumb lawsuits filed every day.  It's certainly possible. 

He tried to sue me for Defamation in 2020.  According to him, he had a lawyer and he was actually going around talking to people we know asking them to be witnesses, etc.  Obviously it never went anywhere.  I could be wrong (and feel free to correct me if I am, since you know more about this stuff than I do) but doesn't a defamation lawsuit have to involve some loss of income?  Like you have to prove that the things that were said about you hurt your career in some way to win it? 

Well, he was trying to prove that me ending the relationship hurt his income, etc... during a pandemic.  And we do a job that relies on large gatherings of people.  If festivals aren't happening, of course, people who work at them aren't making money.  So, there was no way he was going to convince anyone that me ending our relationship was what caused him to take a loss in 2020 and not the pandemic.