Help with interpreting things

[Smirnoff]

Hi -

 

My girlfriend and I have split recently after 3 years of being together. She has a little boy, Tom aged 7, from a previous relationship. I have been with them since his 4th birthday and quickly fell into the role of being his father (he's been officially calling me Daddy for the past 12 months, and has been doing it in school for the past 2 years). They split shortly after Tom was born, other than my father, I am the only male influence in Tom's life.

 

The break-up is my fault, I've neglected both of them, living my life in a bubble for the past 12 months or so. This bubble is all about me, me and only me. Whilst in my bubble I stopped being a partner, father and son and turned into an ogre instead. I've neglected everyone and everything around me, paying no regard to the effect of my words and actions, or to how selfish and lazy I had become. I reached a point where nothing else mattered but me, where it became everybody else's responsibility to tend to my needs and reached a place where only my feelings counted. I became very oppressive and generally not a nice person to be around, all my energy was spent and life was pretty bleak.

 

We stopped doing things together, going places and planning for the future. I've all too often accused her of not trying, when really the fact that she stuck it out for as long as she did is testement to the fact that she did! I would use work as an excuse for letting them down, even to the point that it became an unspoken excuse... its just the way it is kind of thing. Many of the things I've said to her should really have been said in a mirror.

 

The split was the kick in the butt/slap in the face that I've needed for a long time. I'm far more alert, friendly and a whole lot less intense than I was 3 weeks ago. It was inevitable that the split would happen, whatever the outcome will be, I'm incredibly greatful to her for this alone. It would probably have been my job next which would probably have been the straw the broke the camels back.

 

Since splitting we've remained in contact thanks to my parents. They see Tom as their grandson and Jayne as the daughter that they never had (rather than a prospective daughter in law). They wish that things could be different as much as I do. So they've kept their regular routine of taking them both out on a Saturday, to a neighbouring town shopping or a couple of hours on the beach. After they are done for the day they give them the option of coming back here (I'm back at my parents house) for a cup of tea or whatever, so far Jayne has shown no objection to this even though she knows that all she has to do is say no or request that she be dropped back of at her house but still allow Tom to come and see me.

 

When here she is very quiet, very uptight with Tom also. I managed to make her laugh on her last visit so that was nice. She has a monster of a brick wall in front of her (to be expected) and appears to be quite angry still. My opinion is that if she was over me then she would be able to look at me and converse with ease rather than being very subdued, killing conversations left right and center and fearful that we'll reach a conversation who's theme is something like 'lets get back together'.

 

The issue of Tom calling me Daddy has been brought up and it was decided that it would be best for all concerned if we tried to ween him off this, mostly via my parents and Jayne no longer addressing me as Daddy but by name instead. When we first discussed this Jayne was insistant that he should call me Daddy as that is what I am to him. I personally think that if we are to split permanently it should be brought to an end as it will introduce complications in her future relationships and mine (seeing as I'm not his biological father). Throughout it all Jayne has continued to call me Daddy each and every time she needs to address me to him.

 

Converstations between my father and Jayne have seen comments like 'I can't get the bad things out of my head... at the moment' and 'I miss him in so many ways' and more.

 

I desperately want to be with her again, not in the way that we ended up being but as we once were. I have enough energy and drive to give it my very best shot. And my self-esteem has been boosted since switching the unit of self-esteem measuring back from unimportant things like how much I've got in the bank or what car I'm driving back to 'how good a father am I?' and hopefully in the future 'how good a partner am I?... I have since splitting enjoyed Tom in ways I'd forgotten all about, silly chats about nothing, giving the best answer I can to his 7 year old questions and remembering that he is just 7 and that 7 year olds can be difficult.

 

I have no intention of asking her outright to get back with me, indeed the way I'd like to see things go is that it simply happens one day (whether it be in a month or 6 months time). I want to be able to court the girl again, show her that I respect her, love her and that she and Tom are the most important things in my life. I honestly think that telling her this (aka convincing her that things would be different) would drive her further away, I have faith in the saying 'actions are louder than words' and plan to act accordingly.

 

The fact that she's so keen for Tom to continue calling me Daddy, the 'at the moment' and so on, the willingness to come here on the weekends knowing that I'm here and that Tom would still see me even if she wasn't there and the inability to look at and converse with me suggests to me that she is still wanting to see me and still has feelings for me and that she is still very much seeing the bad and not allowing the good things to come through at the moment. My question after all this is does anyone think that I'm fooling myself thinking like this?

 

Thanks!

[cookies]

no ur not fooling urself at all. Shes fooling herself, becuase after reading all of this, i view you as a well mannered, and well raised respectable guy that has loving parents. It seems that they want the best for you, and do hold a deep love for her and her child even after ur breakup, and are handling it quite well.

 

They take her on shopping sprees, says alot about them...but I can onlly hope that she isnt using that to her advantage, with no intentions of getting back to you. Parents are usuallu quite wise to people's behaviours, and want what they feel is in the best interest of their child, and the things they continue to do for her, shows a great example of the idea that they have accepted her and Tom, as well as have a continued faith and hope that something prospers for u two again in the near future...but...

 

why is she angry tho? u said that she is still angry, but what happened for u two to break up in the first place? She obviously cares about u somewhat, if shes still coming around on the weekends for visits and dinner.

 

I wasnt sure of your entire situation, which disabled me from elaborating any further on my views or solutions...but you seem quite balanced and knowledgeable. IM sure things will work out in ur best interest.

 

cookies

[Smirnoff]

Hi -

 

Thanks for the interest, opinions and nice comments.

 

>> They take her on shopping sprees

 

One of the qualities that I love about her is that she is very independent and proud, it takes a great deal of persuading for her to let anyone buy her anything. My mum insists on paying for lunch, beyond that Jayne gets nothing in terms of material gains from them.

 

>> Parents are usuallu quite wise to people's behaviours

 

I'm not too sure how astute my Mum is in this respect but my Dad is razor sharp. In 3 years they have never once made a negative comment in relation to Jayne, if they thought that something was up then they'd make sure I was aware of it.

 

>> why is she angry tho?

 

The anger is from the hurt that she's feeling as a result of me. To put it plainly, I've treated her badly. I've constantly let her down over the past 12 months, neglected her as a woman, mother and friend. I've either been oppresive or depressed on a daily basis and have become one of the laziest SOBs you could meet... to the point that anything other than work and personal hygene was just too much effort. I would say nasty things to her, expect her to have enough energy to be bright and cheerful around me and at the same time lift me out of my depression and solve my self-esteem problems (things that only I can do). It was almost as though I was in a trance

 

I can only imagine how she has been feeling, being around me must have been pretty soul destroying for her. I reckon words like neglected, unappreciated, unloved and more would come up quite frequently if she were to pour her heart out to someone.

 

I had no tolerance for anything, if something didn't go exactly as planned I would go into a mood. I stopped thinking rationally, became insanely jealous over nothing and the rest. Poor Tom couldn't do a thing right for a while!

 

I'd go as far as to say that I'd almost lost the plot completely. As mentioned earlier, thankfully the slap in the face came before I lost my job too (although I'd trade today).

 

She told me that her feelings have changed since Easter. I'm a contractor so if I'm not working I'm not getting paid, holidays become very expensive when you factor the lost earnings into the cost of the holiday itself. To avoid losing too much money we agree that we would fly out on the same flight, I would stay for a long weekend and return on home on the Monday evening. She and Tom would spend the rest of the week wtih my parents (who'd flown out two weeks earlier). Jayne hates flying so the only way they would get a holiday in the first half of the year would be by me going down with them on the outbound flight. We had an argument the night before the flight and she ended up going without me (something I'm very proud of her for, as she really really hates flying but was willing to overcome her fear, even if only to prove a point to me). I wouldn't answer the phone for the 3 or 4 days after, drunk most of the time. We patched things up on the phone and me being the idiot that I was carried on as normal when they returned.

 

We had an argument 3 weeks Sunday just gone that saw me kicking her out of bed (not physically) and saying lots of bad things like 'I don't love you, I've never loved you'. We'd been out that evening and the alchohol was doing much talking (staying away from the booze from now on). The next day she was extremely quiet with me, I carried on being a fool and she left...

 

Thanks again,

Lee.

[Smirnoff]

The first week saw me thinking that this was just a temporary break, one where she was using the time apart to punish me. We spoke one afternoon and I fool heartedly decided to ask her to take me back... this made her clam up even more.

 

The second and third week saw me come to the realization that I'd messed things up badly, I began to see what I had done to her and just how far I had pushed things. I wrote her a letter explaining that I could see the mistakes that I'd made and apologized for all the past and present hurt I had inflicted on her. I did not make any attempt to reconcile things, I just wanted to let her know that I knew what I had done wrong.

 

This past weekend has seen me plotting and planning our getting back together, I fear that this is me fooling myself (hence the post). But today and yesterday I am feeling very quilty about things. I feel that I'm also beginning to grieve now, something that I haven't been able to do so far.

 

I just wish I could interpret the signals if you like:

 

Is her coming her when she doesn't need to her way of getting her 'Lee' fix?

 

Is she doing it to try and prove that she has moved on? (I doubt this as her unwillingness to talk suggests that she hasn't).

 

What does her unwillingness to talk suggest to you?

 

What's the signifigance of her wanting Tom to call me Daddy still? My parents and I agree that this is not a good thing if we aren't to be together. And I strongly believe that Jayne is wise enough to see the pitfalls for herself.

 

She's made no effort to collect her stuff from here, nor to return mine. It hasn't been mentioned at all.

 

Man, I just want my baby back, to know that she still would like to be with me if things were different and then I can get on with showing her how things could be... (which I am trying to do but seeing her for a limited period of time with minimal interaction is pretty difficult).

 

Cheers all,

Lee

[cookies]

Dont worry big guy...ull get ur baby back...u seem to be trying to put forth all the right energies into the relationship, that she longed for,...b4 you pushed her away. Shes probably loving the way you ar being such a wonderful gentleman, and by her sitting back and taking her time...she may want to be cautious to make sure that if she gets back wth you, will be the ri ght thing and in the best interest of her and Tom, as it will be painful to her and especially to the child if you revert back to you old hurtful ways... she wants to avoid any more heartache by being cautious.

 

I wouldnt think that if she had completely given up on you, that she would be hanging out with ur parents like that...and bringing Tom around to spend time with you, when she has the option to do other things..she has chosen to hang out with u guys..and its definitely for a good reason...a reason that i believe is that she still loves you...

 

im sure u wanted to hear a bit of positive news resulting from this..so all i can say now is...keep it up..and dont revert back to the old you that she fell out of love with...keep being this sweet, loving, man and father that she not only wants in her and Toms life...but the man they NEED...

 

just as you realize you NEED them...

 

good luck...

 

cookies

[Smirnoff]

Hi Cookies, there's nothing like a bit of positive news first thing in the morning. Thank you for that.

 

I had my father call Jayne up earlier in the week to see if she would be okay with me making a regular thing of taking Tom swimming. She agreed. I picked him up yesterday afternoon (finishing work an hour earlier than normal, hope she picked up on that one). Whilst collecting him she was very VERY quiet with me, once again not being able to look at me at all.

 

While swimming we had a good time, it felt nice to be feeling fatherly again, one who took everything in his stride and didn't let Tom's little quirks result in an argument (such as him asking 'why haven't they got the inflatable shark out Daddy?' around 8 times in 40 minutes).

 

Dropping Tom off saw her being quite brusk still but able to look at me when she was speaking, albeit briefly (eye contact was a definate no no). I also got the sense that she was blocking or guarding the back door (heh, nothing new there) as if to say 'you're not coming in, this is my space so you've got to keep out'. I take this as a good sign.

 

What's worrying me now is that time is creeping by, its going to be a month on Sunday. The concern being that the more time goes by the less her desire to be with me will be as she'll have done her missing and so on and will just say 'I've gone this far, I might as well carrying on like this now'. Any thoughts?

[Smirnoff]

Well things are really confusing me now. I've spoken at length with my parents, it would appear that I have indeed been fooling myself with regards to her visits on a Saturday and that they are not her way of seeing me (I personally get a great deal of pleasure from just being sat in the same room as her at the moment, even if she doesn't speak to me). They are just ????

 

Anyways, I've been told this evening that she is off out with her friends on Saturday (no problem with this). This suggests to me that she is picking up the pieces and progressing in the moving on stage of things (personally I couldn't handle a night out with my friends at this stage). However, this is all well and good for her, she's made the decision that she doesn't want to be with me right now. I do feel that I cannot move on so good as it appears to me that I've been left with the ultimate responsibility of determining just how much Tom is affected by this...

 

In order for me to really move on I strongly feel that I need to make a clean break. By a clean break I mean make the decision that there will be no getting back together, period! If I choose this path then I think its imperative that Tom stops the Daddy thing now and I really stop playing the Daddy role as this will just drag out the pain for all. This ultimately means no contact with them whatsoever. I do not like this feeling of being made responsible for denying Tom his father as to me it is she is the one who's turning her back on things.

 

Just how long do you women take to get things straight in your heads?!?!?

 

Major frustration, anger and resentment are creeping in tonight!!!

 

To me you either do or you don't. I'm starting to feel like she's doing the usual woman thing of leaving little seeds of doubt her and there, dangling little carrots. I really didn't expect her to be like this, she's totally different to all the women I've known or been involved with in the past.

 

Help!!!

[Smirnoff]

Its now into its seventh week and things haven't progressed at all.

 

Shortly after my last post I had Tom over here for a morning, he let slip about Jayne going out one night and being sick when she got home and in the morning. She'd been to my local pub and gotten trashed with an older female colleague, the people in the pub told me about it shortly afterwards, 'all men are b******s' and plenty more drunken swearing too.

 

I decided that it was time to get in touch with some old friends, we went out and got extremely drunk. I then got angry and sent her a text message saying that I was disgusted by her leaving Tom with this woman's husband and kids while she went out and got drunk. This woman has offered her husband's baby sitting services several times for Jayne to go out with her but Jayne has always refused point blank, criticising her for asking when telling me about the offers, 'I could never do that' kind of thing. This act is most out of character for Jayne, as is drinking to the point of being ill. She took massive offence at this and rang me and a horrible argument pursued, the next day she came over to my house and told my parents that she never wanted anything to do with me again, I guess the truth really does hurt.

 

A few days after I went to my local to meet my friends. Upon walking in one said 'your ex is here, her company is having a leaving do for someone'. Next thing Jayne storms up to me asking 'how long are you staying her for', 'all night' was my reply. She stormed off, returning 20 seconds later saying 'I'm not comfortable with you being here' and walked out. A little later I called my parents just to let them know what had happened, she'd already rang them to indirectly ask for their support in the form of them coming to fetch me, they obviously refused as I had done nothing wrong and that pub has been my local for 10 years+, its where all my friends drink and she's probably been in there 10 times period.

 

I decided at that point that I would not contact her at all, doing everything possible to not be mentioned to her by anyone and so on, really trying to give her some space. Two weeks went by with no contact and then she called my mom asking could she come and collect Tom's bike as one of his friends was over for the day and had brought his bike. My mom told her that I was here and if it was a problem she would take the bike over to them, she said that it wasn't a problem. When she arrived I talked with Tom while my mother talked to her. It turns out that she has had tonselitus twice in the last month, she is still sounding very down and looking withdrawn... she is obviously not happy.

 

I decided that I would send her a text message a few days later, 'I just wanted to say hi and that I hope your throat is better. I hope you don't mind too much.'. No pressure, no questions or anything like that. I got no response at all.

 

My parents took them out on the weekend, Jayne didn't ask anything about me or how I'm doing. She is still referring to me as Daddy when it comes to Tom, he is still calling me Daddy.

 

I really don't understand what is going on here. If she was happy in her decision to walk then she should surely be happier in general, she isn't though, she's as down as can be, trying very hard to occupy their time. I've even been told that she is the same in work. She has still made no effort to give my stuff back, she still refers to me as Daddy.

 

Do people really walk away from a relationship that was great for a long time? We had a very close, loving relationship. Things went wrong, she knows that I wasn't myself towards the end but yet she doesn't want to deal with it?!?!? It just seems plain crazy to me to not sit down and talk things through!!!

 

Any advice?