Should NC be applied forever?

[dontknowwhattodo]

I have been here for a while and learnt tremendously about how to heal myself from the break up. Now I have some questions about the NC and would really appreciate if you guys can help answer them. Here they are:

 

1. I am wondering how long the NC should be applied. Should it be forever? Should it be only until I feel better towards the ex? I saw a post advising that the lengh of the NC should be 3 times of the lenght that we pestered our ex's, however what if I only pestered my ex for like 5 minutes when he told me that he wanted to break up on the phone (basically I just cried and asked why he didn't want to work thing out).

 

2. When is it Okay to contact the ex?

 

3. What if I have been so well in not contacting him and all a sudden he calls? Should I take the call or should I ignore it? What if he leaves a message, should I call him back right away? Or should I wait for a day? Or should I not return his call at all?

 

4. What if he calls and wants to hang out (he indicated that he wanted to hang out and would call me up to see when we both were free)? Should I say no to him? Do I have to give any reason? Or should I go and hang out with him?

 

It has been 3 weeks since the break up (he dumped me for the soul searching crap after 6 great months together). In my past relationships, I always begged, nagged, pleaded, tried to contact my ex's because I didn't know what to do. But now I discovered this site and ageed that NC is the only way to go, so I am applying it to my last break up. I am new for it and would appreciate if you guys can give me some guidance.

 

Thank you!

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

1. I am wondering how long the NC should be applied. Should it be forever? Should it be only until I feel better towards the ex?

 

2. When is it Okay to contact the ex?

 

These are really the same question once youu understand NC. NC is for you to heal and for your ex to think about things without your pressure. Most here would say don't contact them until you think you can talk to them with your emotions under control. Also, you shouldn't contact them unless they contact you.

 

3. What if I have been so well in not contacting him and all a sudden he calls? Should I take the call or should I ignore it? What if he leaves a message, should I call him back right away? Or should I wait for a day? Or should I not return his call at all?

 

4. What if he calls and wants to hang out (he indicated that he wanted to hang out and would call me up to see when we both were free)? Should I say no to him? Do I have to give any reason? Or should I go and hang out with him?

 

NC is not ignoring the person. You should read the primer here somewhere. I think it's entitled "So you want..." I think, I can't remember, it has about a bizilion posts.

 

You can pick up right away or you can wait or whatever. You might want to err on the side of doing what makes them more likely to think you've moved on. Same thing with haning out with him.

 

Now it's ok to hang out with him if your emotionally stable. But the other dager is ending up in friend zone. This is always the toughest call. Because sometimes they wouldn't tell you if they had feelings for you anyways. If they don't say so, they can always bail--it's plausable deniability. If they say something, you'll have more power and evidence to use against them.

 

So you'll stradle the border between wondering if they just want to be friends or if they really are still interested in you. Since this line is thin and blurred you'll have to choose one side to err on.

 

You can err on the side of avoidance and have them risk resenting you for avoiding them. BUt this way you KNOW you won't end up in friend zone. Actually this works good because you KNOW that someone that JUST wants to be your friend would rationally approach you one day and say, "I feel as if you're avoiding me, you know I still want to be your friend." If they never have this talk to you, you know they either don't care for you much or they still have feelings for you and are starting to resent you because you're avoidng them. I actually did this. My ex loved the rare times I saw her at school. She saw it as a sign that I still loved her, she smiled and was so happy that I loved her that much. But after enough time she didn't see the avoidance as me trying to heal, to forget my love for her, she saw it as evidence that I hated her. She felt as if I didn't care for her anymore. She really got mad, and although she wanted me to contact her, wanted me to spend time with her, she got more and more disapointed that I didn't contact her, and got more and more resentful.

 

The other choice woudl be to err on the side of too much contact. (Remember you'll have to stay on the line between frienship and avoiding her.) This way you risk ending up in "friend zone." if she is with someone else I would advise against it. (I didn't do this because she was with her ex, so I pretty much ran for the hills.) But it MAY bring you two closer together and give you a chance to try again. But the other person has to be pretty willing to be a friend. I mean they have to be the one doing all the contacting, and you need to go along with that. You can't force your friendhsip on him or it just means that they don't have that romantic atachment to you anymore.

 

Sorry aobu this long winded answer, hope it helps.

[dontknowwhattodo]

Thank you so much for your response. This helps. He said at the break up that he wanted to be friend, so I think I know what direction we are going to if we end up hanging out again. He is not seeing someone right now but I know he is going to. It was what he said at the break up (that he needed to see others and couldn't be my bf now because he didn't want to jump too quick into a serious relationship). So at this point, do you think I should try to make him wonder if I have moved on? I personally think that he doesn't care (because he plans to date others). The reason I try NC is purely for myself to heal and be able to move on. I may sound confused, I am sorry for it but this is what I am going through.

 

And another question is if both sides do the NC, then wouldn't we end up not talking at all? I still want to be friend with him but not for now.

 

Thanks again. This really helps.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Ok if you want him back you have to look at this from two points of view.

 

1) Maybe the reason he gave was real. Maybe he still does have feelings for you and just doesn't want to be in a relationship. How old his he/you? Guys from ~24 and down and be very wishy-washy. Girls are worse, but guys also want to sow their wild oats. But even this line about wanting you as a friend maybe a lie. I mean maybe he has deeper feelings for you. I don't know. It's really hard to tell sometimes unless he's easy for you to read.

 

2) Maybe he said this because he was no longer interested in you, but that doesn't mean all is lost, peoples feelings do change.

 

Now for your plans of action.

 

If he does have feelings for you still friendship might work. if you weren't dating for very long friendship might work. If he is confused about this relationship friendship might work.

 

If you avoid him. See how he reacts. He may become passive-aggressive, he could suppress feelings. The rule is, if he comes on strong in either direction--either he doesn't seem to care at all or he seems really worried that you're not talking much anymore--then he probably still has SOME feeling for you. Of course if he doesn't show any feeling at all then he may really not care at all. But if he genuinely wants to be a friend then he will try to be your friend. If he wants to be a friend and doesn't try to be your friend then something is up. Either he is trying to play some game with you, or is resenting you and the rational choice of just asking ot be your friend wont occur to him (his defenses will be running wild).

 

But in the meantime either way, you should better yourself. Seriously spend lots of time thinking about why you two broke up. Assume that he didn't like you, what was it about you? Can you change it? Was it your looks? weight? personality? Were you too dependent on him? Were you not outgoing enough? smart enough? Does he have any body that you know he dated? What were those people like?

 

Now this bettering of yourself will work better if you do NC, and the more the better. If after 3 months he spots a new you, then it wont be like dating the old you, so you will be aisle reconsidered.

 

Besides, you'll want to better yourself anyways for any future bf.

 

Now it always depends on what kind of guy you're looking for. But in my opinion there are not enough smart, outgoing, professional women out there. The kind of girl that travels accross Costa Rica by herself, the kind of girl that skydives, the kind of girl that volunteers extensively, the kind of girl that becomes an OBGYN, a patent lawyer, a physicist, a creative writer, or a business woman in Pharmecoeconomics. These professional girls, that are the same intelligence as me are the only way to go. We need more of these women in the world. They are such a turn on. But I could be wrong, maybe guys just want ugrads that dress in risque clothes.

 

Now these girls have a hard time finding men like the rest of the girls out there, but it's for a different reason. Suddenly your dealing with a different caliber of guys. You start turning away all the guys because you know you can do much better. Who knows, maybe you're ex will be one of them.

 

Good luck!

[idontgetit]

hi tsc,

 

as one of those women in "high caliber jobs" i was dating someone who, at the time, was not in one of those jobs, and although he was very proud of me and we had a great relationship, i now think that he was slightly intimidated by me because as a former banking head said "i woke up in the morning ready to bite the a.. off a bear" i think for most men, even the ones in high powered jobs, that may be very hard to deal with. i'm in no means advocating women to not strive to be the absolute best in their field, but it brings a whole other set of problems with it. finding men secure enough to deal with that is a job in itself.

[maria219]

You can err on the side of avoidance and have them risk resenting you for avoiding them. BUt this way you KNOW you won't end up in friend zone. Actually this works good because you KNOW that someone that JUST wants to be your friend would rationally approach you one day and say, "I feel as if you're avoiding me, you know I still want to be your friend." If they never have this talk to you, you know they either don't care for you much or they still have feelings for you and are starting to resent you because you're avoidng them.

One of the best unsaid pieces of advice (at least for my present situation..) My ex broke up with me 2 months ago, and I tried the whole try to be friends thing, but all I would get is animosity, distance, and my heart broken every single day (we have some classes together). He would also make random comments about other girls and whatnot (which I didn't understand because of course he knew I still liked him..he didn't have to try to make me more upset!). So, I tried the avoidance for one day and then he would call me because "he thought he'd just call...". I have said those exact words..."Is anything wrong? I'm here for you because I'm your friend.." He hasn't said anything along those lines yet although he suggested we be friends first...so I guess I have to still do the NC thing..

But I do have a question...After looking at my previous exs, whether or not they were the dumper or dumpee, there are some common changes....do guys just become more "sexually" oriented...like they're into more crude jokes, talk about girls and sex constantly, become a "metrosexual", etc....I am thinking it's just the way they rebound...any thoughts on common changes by guys or girls after painful breakups?

[dontknowwhattodo]

How old his he/you? It's really hard to tell sometimes unless he's easy for you to read.

We both are in our 30's. He was sometimes hard to read. He always kept things inside and didn't verbally share his feelings. He usually showed them by body language, i.e., hugging, kissing and cuddling.

 

Maybe he said this because he was no longer interested in you, but that doesn't mean all is lost, peoples feelings do change.

What he said at the break up was he still liked me tremendously and had all the respect in me. But he just couldn't be in a relationship right now. He said he didn't know what he was looking for and he didn't want us to date further and one day we got to the point that we had to break up (huh, basically he said we didn't break up this time but stopped dating). I think when he said he wanted to be friend, he really meant it. But for what reason I am not sure. I am trying to figure out the reason because it will determine whether or not I will hang out with him. Still don't know that answer.

 

If you avoid him. See how he reacts.

Hm, as a result that I start the NC with him, he now stops calling me too. I still see him online all the time but I just block him so that he cannot see or talk to me.

 

But in the meantime either way, you should better yourself. Seriously spend lots of time thinking about why you two broke up. Assume that he didn't like you, what was it about you? Can you change it? Was it your looks? weight? personality? Were you too dependent on him? Were you not outgoing enough? smart enough? Does he have any body that you know he dated? What were those people like?

Yes, I have been thinking about reasons we broke up. The main reason is communication. We didn't open up to each other that much and we didn't share our feelings. This is an intrinsic factor that I need to improve in the next relationship. I got all that for those extrinsic factors, i.e., apperance and education. I am working on my Ph.D. degree indeed. I went out on two dates since the break up, I found myself more open up to these two guys I dated but still it was hard to express my feelings. We talked for hours and had fun. They want their next dates with me but I just still trap with the thought of this ex.

 

Now these girls have a hard time finding men like the rest of the girls out there, but it's for a different reason.

I ageee

 

Thank you very much for your advice. I wish you a good luck too.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Ok the whole "let's be friends" thing is really confusing.

 

1) It maybe just thing thing you say. Sometimes people don't mean it. If he doesn't seem to care about you whatsoever this may be a posibilitiy.

2) He does care and wouldn't mind you as a friend but will leave you alone if that's what you want. I have a friend that brokeup with his girl. And I'm sure he still wouldn' tmind being a friend. But he also seems content to not talk to her much ever again. (Hard to tell if you can really call this a friend.)

3) He will do NC also. That this is a defense mechanism that he will employ because you no longer prostrate before his every move. He may want you to contact him, but it may take a long time for him to admit that. He may break down if he's not really stubborn or think you're playing games. But this still says that he's boderline as far as his feelings for you. He can may still hold out indefinitly if you don't contact him and this means--even if he has feelings for you--he's not very passionate about those feelings.

4) A true friend would at least call sometimes, or try to see how things are going.

 

I do worry that if he's using this whole "I don't want to be in a relationship" excuse, that he's actually having a hard time commiting. Were you two about to make any life changes? How about emotionally, did anything change recently?

[dontknowwhattodo]

I do worry that if he's using this whole "I don't want to be in a relationship" excuse, that he's actually having a hard time commiting. Were you two about to make any life changes? How about emotionally, did anything change recently?

 

The reason he came about this excuse was because he seemed to be distancing away from me before the break up (later on, he admitted that it was because he concerned about our communication problem), so I called him up and asked if he was seeing something else (which implied to him that I wanted to know if we were serious). Then it triggered him to think that he couldn't be in a relationship too soon (after we dated for 6 months). His last relationship before me lasted 5 years, he thought he would spend the rest of his life with her but she dumped him for someone else unexpectedly (no warning sign) and she also claimed that it was his false not communicating. As far as I could see, he still had a whole lot of emotions towards me when we had a talk about breaking up. But I don't know how he feels about me for now because we stop everything. Guys are too hard to understand.

[Smusher]

About the question say if both partys do NC then you will never talk again. I wonder this too and I think its simple physics. Right you wont ever talk again. It is the prisoners dillema if two accused and they both keep quiet about the crime they both comitted then neither one will have evidence against them and neither one will go to jail. But the other doesnt really know if you will squeel and you dont know if he will either so when you are offered a lesser sentence by your accusers in return for turning evidence your accomplice will go to jail and you will get the deal.

[Smusher]

About the question say if both partys do NC then you will never talk again. I wonder this too and I think its simple physics. Right you wont ever talk again. It is the prisoners dillema if two accused and they both keep quiet about the crime they both comitted then neither one will have evidence against them and neither one will go to jail. But the other doesnt really know if you will squeel and you dont know if he will either so when you are offered a lesser sentence by your accusers in return for turning evidence your accomplice will go to jail and you will get the deal.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

People don't just leave all the sudden. And good communication is a precondition to a good relationship. But bad communication sparks something else. Her leaving all the sudden could be due to the fact that they fought all the time, that he would never commit, that he didn't seem to love her, or maybe a deeper psychological reason. When women leave men after being together for so long it is because they are fed up with something. I bet the warning signs were there and he didn't see them. The fact that she found someone else just seems to say that he was looking for a way out. If you met someone better for you and you were in love with your bf, would you leave your boyfriend? Of course not. So it's obvious the feeling wasn't really there. Does he still talk to his ex? Is he still emotionally attached to her? Do you think he might try again with her? How long before breaking up with him before he started to date you? Also did he breakup with his ex more than once before, and if so, who did the breaking up. Either way, he will never be able to start a real relationship with you unless he gets over this old flame, so you got that going for you (as weird as that sounds). BTW If a guy had even ONE long term relationship in the past there is a good chance he has problems with commitment:

 

We ran accross at least fifty men we could identify as stringers. They can be very dangerous. I estimate each one is responsible for at least two women remaining single. They are destructive because they con women into wasting their time during the years when they are most attractive and most likely to get a proposal. They stay with women, live with women, promise them marriage, and string them on and on indefinitely.

 

There is one surefire way to identify these men-they are usually repeat offenders. If a man had even one long-term relationship with someone else, he's very likely to be a stringer. If he does not set a firm date, be on your guard.

source: link removed

 

Do you think he has problems with commitment? The only reason I keep pushing for this commitment thing is because several signs point to it.

 

-History of long-term relationship that ended without proposal (after 5 years either you know or you move on)

-He brokeup after you asked about exclusivity

-He's in his 30's

-What are his relationships with his mom/dad like? Was he raised by his father? Or if his parents stayed together was his father more emotionally distant towards his mother?

-Any chance he has a hard time making major purchases?

 

But we should be open minded, maybe there is another explanation. But people just don't breakup simply because of communication problems--although this may be the root of the problem. People breakup because of arguments, incompatibility, or more deep seated issues. Did you two argue often? Are you more compatible than his ex? Can he suffer from any of the common personality disorders:

 

link removed

 

 

 

Oh and believe me, women are just as hard to understand, and can be worse .

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

i think for most men' date=' even the ones in high powered jobs, that may be very hard to deal with. i'm in no means advocating women to not strive to be the absolute best in their field, but it brings a whole other set of problems with it. finding men secure enough to deal with that is a job in itself.[/quote']

 

Men who can't live with the idea that their wife as a better paying/better job have a skewed sense of gender roles. It's true, that a successful woman almost has a stigma on her though.

 

Now we should be sympathetic to some degree. Guys have this idea, from society or childhood, that they should pay for the woman, protect the woman, and want the woman to be weak sometimes so they can feel needed enough to protect her. For whatever reason, most guys want this.

 

 

I won't place a value judgement on it, but I too want a girl that I can spoon up with, that I can open doors for, that is gentle and emotional enough to let me be her protector. Guys need to feel needed, and most women need to feel nurtured and wanted. So usually it works out ok. The successful businesswoman can be seemed as intimidating because the guy will think that she doesn't need him. I don't care what she does for a living, or how strong she is in the business world, at the end of the day I just want to wrap my body around her and shield her from the world, and I want her to desire me to do that. So the women who say, "I don't need a man," just end up shooting themselves in the foot. Men feel so good when they feel they are needed, and if a woman doesn't need them, then why should he bother with her--she's not his type.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

About the question say if both partys do NC then you will never talk again. I wonder this too and I think its simple physics. Right you wont ever talk again. It is the prisoners dillema if two accused and they both keep quiet about the crime they both comitted then neither one will have evidence against them and neither one will go to jail. But the other doesnt really know if you will squeel and you dont know if he will either so when you are offered a lesser sentence by your accusers in return for turning evidence your accomplice will go to jail and you will get the deal.

 

I NEVER THOUGHT OF IT THAT WAY!!!

 

link removed

 

Just change:

 

Two suspects are arrested by the police. The police have insufficient evidence for a conviction, and having separated them, visit each of them and offer the same deal: If you confess and your accomplice remains silent, he gets the full 10-year sentence and you go free. If he confesses and you remain silent, you get the full 10-year sentence and he goes free. If you both stay silent, all we can do is give you both 6 months for a minor charge. If you both confess, you each get 6 years.

 

TO:

Two people breakup. They are separated, so they have a choice to make.

If you confess your love to (or contact) your ex and your ex remains quiet you lose big. If the reverse happens, you win big. If neither of you confess (or break NC) you both lose, if you both confess, you both win.

 

The only problem is that the prisoner's dilemma gives each person a choice without the knowledge of the other person's choice. In our love case, the person will know immediately from the person choice once that person admits feelings. So the person can change choice once they have that knowledge. It's not quite the same, but it's very close. But it shows that it's really hard to win in cases like these.

[dontknowwhattodo]

I totally agree that people just don't leave all a sudden. They must have something going on during 5 years together. The worst part for him was she left him for a girl and she is now living with her girlfriend, so I don't think he wants to try her again. I don't really know deeply what happened to them and I don't know to know. I only know that they jumped into a relationship so quick and moved in together after dating for 2 years. He and his ex don't talk anymore even though he knows where she lives and works but he ran into her accidentally on the street the night before he broke up with me. I asked him was that the reason why he crashed and wanted to break up with me, he said no.

 

We started dating 1 year after he was dumped. He seemed to be fine and over his ex at first when we met. However, when I was dating him I sometimes found that he was depressed and confused about his life.

 

I am not convinced that he has problem with commitment though. They lived together for 3 years and he planned to marry her. She was confused about sexual identity and left him for a girl. He has a loving family. I can see that his parents love each other so much and he was raised as a happy child. However, he always mentioned about a big move like buying a house or moving closer to me (we live one hour apart) but those didn't happen. I can see that he always says something but they don't really happen.

 

We never had any argument when we were together for 6 months. And I guess his ex was more compatible than me, otherwise he wouldn't be with her for 5 years and with me for only 6 months. And even before you brought the personality disorder up, I kind of thought that he might have depression problem and seemed to not know he wanted in his life and also couldn't get over his ex yet. I will read more about personality disorder and find out.

 

I wish I met someone who can share the thoughts like you.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

I am not convinced that he has problem with commitment though. They lived together for 3 years and he planned to marry her. She was confused about sexual identity and left him for a girl. He has a loving family. I can see that his parents love each other so much and he was raised as a happy child. However, he always mentioned about a big move like buying a house or moving closer to me (we live one hour apart) but those didn't happen. I can see that he always says something but they don't really happen.

 

Well actually the guys who stay with girls, or live with them for years and years are the one's with commitment issues. Browse the commitment forum here and you'll see things about "we have been together for 6 years and he won't marry me." I mean, that post was just last week. And as far as his family, often it's the guys from intact families (whose mom/dad wasn't an example of a caring relationship) that have commitment problems. It's the guys that were raised by their mothers who are more emotional and want to marry right away. There are a lot of symptoms of someone who is affraid of commitment (broken promises are also a bad sign and the fact he ran into his ex also seems like a point of contention). But like I said, maybe it's not commitment. You can read, "Men who can't love" to find out more if it is.

 

 

And about the fact that he was with her for 5 years, let me tell you something. Love doesn't always get a chance. I met my ex, we were happy, but her ex came begging for her back when he found out about us. I couldn't compete with the 4 years she knew him (we dated for 4.5 months) and I couldn't compete with the fact that he was her "first love". So basically it was bad timing. The same could of happened to you. Who knows, if you met him first, you two could of been together for 5 years.

 

But it may have been something as simple as he still has feelings for her. He might need to get her out of his system before he can move on. If he sees her sometimes this can be very difficult. I mean your 6 months could never compete with te 5 year relationship they had together. It may take lots of time. You don't need to give up hope, but you should also prepare for the worst too. But either way, I'm sure he's stupid for leaving you!

[dontknowwhattodo]

I read that article (link removed and yeah now I think he is a classic stringer according to the research!

 

1. He has had one long-term relationships with a girl and didn't marry her.

2. He didn't commit and gave some excuses to me.

3. Indeed, he told me that we hadn't been going together long enough, that he didn't know, that he hadn't made up his mind.

4. And he told me to stick around as friend without his needing to make a commitment.

 

Oh well...Poor me.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Well I don't want to sell you too eaisly. There's a book called "Men who can't love." You should read it. If anything, just to recognize the warning signs and not fall for these guys. This book says that he will come crawling back after his fears die down. I guess we'll see about that. But then it will be you're choice whether to try again with him.

 

Maybe your school has a speed dating function. I'm also in a Ph.D program and when the quarter starts I plan on trying it out. It gets one requirement of mine, intellegence, out of the way. Might be a great place to meet guys.