distrustful

I was not asking for advice but really wanted to get some other opinions on my situation. Now I have done that, I'm beginning to agree with you all to be honest - the truth is really hard to take sometimes. I feel low and wish this had never happened. I wish things could go back to the way they were but I know this is foolish. I feel my happy future has been stolen from me and there is nothing I can do to get it back. I know I will move on but I really really loved her and had high hopes for our future together. Life can be so painful

But she found it in her heart to forgive me for my indiscretion at the beginning of the relationship. I think that if the lie detector proved her story, surely I should forgive her and give her a second chance? Have you never made a mistake and wanted forgiveness knowing truly that you will never do it again?

That really isn't good enough for me. The kind of trust I need is total trust. That means if she walked into a room full of model guys and no one would be any the wiser if she cheated, she would still not do anything. Even if no one would find out. I know I need this because that is the level trust I would expect from my partner. I thought I had this and I was actually prepared to believe her when she said nothing happened. I feel like a fool. I like what you say about giving everyone a second chance because that is forgiving and if they fail a second time then it is time to call it a day. If I could get into this mindset, I might be able to save a happy future for us both.

Let's put it this way, if you insist she goes for this lie detector test and she passes and you know for certain she was telling the truth, could she forgive you for not trusting her. It's something to think about. Personally, I think she would fail the test. Her story changed from the original version to something that sounded better after she had some time to think about it. Ultimately, I do believe that forgiveness and regaining trust again is possible. You need to start asking yourself what both of you need to do to get that trust back. You may find it's easier to let go. I have experience on this. Not quite like your situation, but I do know in order for me to trust my gf at the time again, I needed to know where, what and who she was doing things with all the time. I know that's crazy now, even if she agreed to it, I guarantee that she would have just left me from all the restictions. My thoughts are with you. That is how I feel too - I want to know where, who, what with everything she does. How did it turn out for you? Did your relationship survive it and did you manage to get less suspicious and more trusting over time?

Thanks for everyone's support... I'm sorry for playing devil's advocate here but I obviously want to make a wise decision. There has been some confusion over the story. She claims that she kissed him 3 times in the club and that his hand was down her pants in the club but she knew this was too far and stopped it. When they came back, she claims he was on his way out and that he pulled her into the bathroom probably to try and continue with what happened in the club. She claims nothing happened in the bathroom because by then she realised what she had done. She didn't call out because of how it looked (!) and lied to me because she was afraid of how I would react and that I would ditch her immediately. The lie detector idea is to validate this story and will prove to me that she is now telling the truth and nothing else happened. My question is, if this is the truth, can I forgive her. I know if the situation was reversed and it was me who cheated, I would be devastated to have hurt her so badly. I also believe that I would be sincerely apologetic and take steps to make sure it never happened again (she claims she won't drink anymore when I'm not there). All I know is that I would want her to forgive me and I believe she would. I'm still haunted by what she did and I'm continually suspicious and at the moment, I'm just not sure I will ever trust her again. I guess I can forgive but can I trust again? I don't want to be part of a relationship where I have these feelings but it was so good before that I think maybe I should fight for it and try to be strong. I'm pretty depressed at the moment and I'm concerned that very few people have empathised with her side of the story... Shorty20 story of forgiveness gives me a little hope but I'm just not sure I can get the damn images out of my head...

This story really worries me. Would you mind expanding on the circumstances of the first incident when you forgave her. How long had you been together? Were you in love? Did you trust her again? Was she drunk when she first cheated and was it just a kiss?

Being a fool in this situation is my worst nightmare - I don't want to waste my time. I'm concerned that everyone's advice is very similar and I want to double check that I have presented the situation fairly. She did kiss another guy and she did lie. However, she was very very drunk/paralytic and she lied to save the relationship. I believe she is sorry and does love me. By the way, she claims he pulled her into the bathroom on the way out the apartment (it is by the door) and that he was probably going to try and make a move on her but by then she was more conscious of what she had done and that is why nothing happened... I'm going to bed now but thanks for all the replies and I will be back on tomorrow. I would like to know other people's background when they post advice - I know that if someone had asked my advice 6 months ago, I'd have said just end it. But you don't know what you will do until you are in a situation and I'm particularly interested in people who have been through this kind of thing and whether it worked or not, how they coped emotionally?

OK I know it is not what you mean to do but it is what you are doing. OK think of two scenarios. One she is lying about the extent of what happened. What are you going to do? Second she is not lying. What do you think will be the residual impact on her psyche of being asked by someone she loves to take a lie test (no matter your intentions). Look once a relationship gets to a point where people are taking lie detector tests or hiring personal detectives or getting DNA samples, it is over. May last for a bit after the event but the residual damage is too great. I only want to resort to a lie detector to resolve this one situation. I would not resort to things like this in every day arguments and hope that once the test has been done, we could put the situation to bed. If she fails the test, it is definitely over because she is still lying. However, if she passes the test, I know it will have an impact on her psyche but she will have to put that in context. She lied and betrayed my trust and the lie detector was a logical and reasonable request in the circumstances. I really don't see it as a big deal and if anything, it is a good thing because it can validate what she is actually saying. I can then think that the only lie she told me was the one to save our relationship and that she did not hold anything else back

I guess what I want to know is if she kissed him 3 times like she said or if something more happened. If she slept with him or had some kind of sex, then I will not be able to forgive that. If it was just a kiss and the lie detector proves that, then I can put it in context. I think all the factors should be considered and drink was a very big factor for that night. Again, I have been in situations where I have been extremely drunk and it can be difficult to make a judgement if you are not used to the loss of control. I always made the right judgement but I know that Jane is not very good with alcohol and I need to take this into consideration. If it was just 3 kisses and she was really drunk, it is a very different situation to 3 kisses sober or having sex and being drunk. I would agree with you all if it was either of the latter two...

maggie18 - thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm really quite interested in your opinion because it seems you share similar values to myself and you have been through the situation before. I believe you may be wrong to say that her actions can't be justified because she was drunk. I have been in situations where I have been really out of it and would not really know right from wrong and could easily have cheated on her if the situation had gone that way. It is still really had to forgive but I do feel it is a factor to consider. Again, the real issue is the lie. If she had come clean it would have been a lot easier to get through but she never really did as I tricked a confession from her. I really believe she is sorry but I just don't trust her. I don't know if the reason for my lack of trust is because this only happened recently and it may get better with time or for something inside me that says once I have been betrayed, there is no way I could make the same mistake twice. How did you cope with forgiving your boyfriend the first time? Did you get over it? I know he cheated on you again but if you were able to give him a second chance, I would be interested to hear how you felt about it all...

I'm confused as to why you would say this? The reason for the test is to establish whether what she has now told me is really the truth. If it is not, then obviously it will be over. However, if it is the truth then I can start thinking how people do silly things when they are drunk and how they will lie to save something they care about. The test is not to humilate her and I have even offered to pay for one for me too to show that I am not asking her to do something I would not be prepared to do. I just want the truth and then I can put it in context. I guess the real problem is going to be able to trust her again after she was so convincing...

Ok - where to begin. I have read a few of the posts in this forum and my story probably pales in comparison to most but I am still in a very bad way and would really like to bounce my thoughts off some people. I will try and present a completely unbiased account of the story so that I can get some balanced opinion. So... I have been with this girl for about 18 months and let's call her Jane. I fell completely in love with her and have been ludicrously happy for the last year. I had quite serious thoughts that she would mother my children and that we would grow old together. I recently paid for us to take a two week holiday to Tokyo - she is only a student and can't contribute anything. I support her financially but I do not have a problem with this as I am fortunate enough to not have big money worries and I wanted her to concentrate on her studies and work for our furture. Anyway, while we were there, I arranged for us to meet up with a friend of a friend - let's call him John. John showed us round some of the sights and we got a bit drunk along the way and all ended up in a night club together. I couldn't really be bothered to stay so I decided to head home. Jane wanted to stay out and I didn't have a problem with this as I trusted her completely. I went back to our apartment and dozed for a while and then heard Jane and John come in. They chatted for a while whilst they thought I was sleeping and then suddenly everything went quiet in the other room. I got out of bed and there was no one there but the toilet door was closed. I went to open it and it was locked. Jane said she was just using the bathroom and that she didn't want to let me in because she had tummy trouble and was embarrassed. I left it a bit and tried again a few minutes later once my mind was a bit more suspicious. I forced the door and she was in there stood up whilst John was sat on the toilet. They both claimed it wasn't what it looked like... I didn't flip and said that John should go and then I calmly want to bed alone. Once I had had time to chew the situation over, I decided it probably was what it looked like and told Jane that we were splitting up once we got home. She was completely devastated and denied that anything had happened and that if I trusted her, I would believe her. She maintained this for the whole of the following awkward week in Japan and cried/felt suicidal etc saying that I must believe her and that nothing had happened. She was so convincing that eventually, I started to think that maybe she was telling the truth and that nothing had happened and that it wa just one of those situations. In the meantime, I decided to write an email to John pretending to be Jane to see if I could prove her story that way. I got to the point where I was not finding much out and decided that I would believe Jane if she could pass a truth test. I confronted her and told her I had been writing to John pretending to be her and that I now knew everything. I told her that I wanted to hear everyting from her mouth for my dignity. At this point, I thought if she still said nothing had happened, I would believe her and the situation could then be put behind us. Instead, she dropped her eyes and said she had lied to prevent hurting me. She eventually admitted to kissing him approximately 3 times in the club and still maintained nothing happened in the toilet at the flat. She also said that he put his hand down her pants but did not place a finger inside her. After all this, I felt pretty bad - for the act itself but more for the loss of trust. She never really admitted it to me - I feel I tricked a confession from her. Anyway, I felt that I was still not comfortable with her story and asked her to take a lie detector test. After arguing for the last 6 weeks that I want her to take the test, she has finally conceded and agreed to be tested to prove that her story is now the whole truth. The problem is, even if what she now says is the whole truth, I'm not sure I can forgive her... I guess if I think hard about it, when people are really really drunk, they can do stupid things. And when they care about something so much, they will do anything including telling lies to their partner. When I think like this, it is easier to understand. However, the real issue is trust. For me honesty is the cornerstone of a relationship and because she was so convincing with her lies and never really admitted anything despite clear and obvious proof, I'm not sure I will ever trust her again. I'm still really hurt and I find it difficult not to think about the event all the time. Before I finish I should tell you about an event in our early relationship. Before I met Jane, I was a bit of a playboy and slept with women regularly. About one week after I met Jane, I slept with a girl because I hadn't really separated my old life from my new one. I felt really bad and admitted what I had done to her a few days later. I said that honesty was important to me and that I didn''t want any secrets from her. She forgave me and it was never mentioned again especially as it was within the first week of meeting. I have never cheated on her since despite numerous opportunities to do so and get away with it. That's it - what do you think then? Will I be able to get over this, forgive and forget or has too much damage been done and she will never appear the same in my eyes again? Will I ever trust her again? Do we have a future?