TA_OAO

I read a quote today.

 

Quote

Realize that you don't actually want them, you just want what was denied you. Acceptance. Love. Appreciation. And realize that you can find those things in someone much better suited for you.

I know I don't actually like this person. They were an awful friend to me. But I feel so much shame and I don't know how to get over it. It feels like my therapist is running out of ideas of what could really be wrong and how to resolve it. My only hope is DBTherapy which starts Monday luckily, though it takes 9 months to complete 😞

On 5/12/2024 at 6:00 PM, Batya33 said:

Your interactions with Alex didn't sound like a healthy friendship or fun.  Too one sided/caretaker stuff.  Do you think some of them were concerned you were trying to date them or hook up with them?

You're probably right. I find it hard to find the right words to describe this, but there are like two categories of attributes people possess; who they are and what they are.

Who they are might include things they enjoy doing, they're dreams, what they believe in, how funny they are etc.

What they are might include things like being intelligent, organised, how many friends they have, if they're rich etc.

I seem to have focused more on the "what they are" aspects of this friendship, using him for my own emotional actualisation, rather than seeing him as a person (who they are)

Also if anyone knows the words for the two categories I'm looking for, or even the name of the concept please let me know aha

14 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

I get the impression that whatever you expressed in your message made him really uncomfortable and he didn't know how to handle it.  You mentioned you are gay - maybe he thought you were trying to "get together" with him - and if he is straight, he felt uncomfortable.

The message has nothing to indicate any romantic feelings for him, it was strictly about friendships. It was me saying that we don't really feel like actual friends and that he seems not like being around me nowadays in class. His response was that we seem to just want different things and be incompatible. If he really did break off a friendship based on feelings that don't even exist, I'll be extremely upset.

After months of this distressing and depressing tension, I just ended up leaving university and told him that I was leaving and to enjoy his time in the course. Though things were upsetting for both of us, I wanted it to end on an okay note, but he never responded to my goodbye message. Even going on the whole romantic crush hypothetical, I can't imagine not replying to someone leaving university who I was "friends" with for a year

21 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Not everyone is a good fit as a friend. Maybe you became too socially dependent or emotionally taxing for him?

Some friendships diverge, and it's fact of life we all need to learn how to manage with resilience.

So what do you find so devastating about this one guy. Did you have a crush on him?

Oh I definitely  was too emotionally dependent on him. It's just really odd, he kept on insisting that I should be vulnerable with him, and open up and talk to him about anything, which I originally rebuffed because I know not everyone has the emotional bandwidth and depth to support someone emotionally. But eventually, with the friendship breaking down, I decided to do so, writing a message to him expressing how I felt about the friendship. He then proceeded to ghost me for two months after sending that message 😕.

He said he was just busy, but later let it slip that he delayed responding for so long because texting gives him anxiety and me expressing my emotions was stressful for him. My therapists seem to hate that explanation he gave lol.

anyway, I think it hurt so much at the time because I had no support system away from home for university other than him, so when it ended it felt like I had lost everything. I get a lot of advice to diversify my friendships at university, which was good advice but after being rejected so harshly, making friends felt like the last thing I wanted/could do at that point. I'll use that advice for my 2nd time round university though aha.

Also, the rejection seems to hurt so much because I was being supported and cared for in very basic and small ways, which im not used to since I had an neglectful father and a deceased mother growing up. So being rejected must have stirred up some feels of grief and abandonment all over again. It's not Alex's fault, though his behavior, i'm starting to see, might not have been great to begin with..

On 5/13/2024 at 12:20 AM, catfeeder said:

That’s really a shame, and I’m sorry to hear it. They’re not sophisticated enough to appreciate you, and that speaks of their limitations rather than of any deficiency in you.

Shop around for friends at the new school who can resonate with you, and while you can be kind to the ones who don’t, I wouldn’t try to befriend them.

Remind yourself of the ugly duckling fable, and embrace your Swan. Ducklings are a dime a dozen. You don’t need their influence unless they are mature enough to be kind.

The other two in my group no, but Alex is very different. It's so odd, if it were as simple as him not being emotionally mature then I'd be able to move on easily, not everyone has the life experience to have it together at 20. But that's not the case. Even in the message "rejected" me, it was put so politely and elegantly with such emotional maturity that I've never seen written by anyone before. It always felt like who he is in text vs in person are two completely different people and it causes so much doubt and confusion within me...

27 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Your interactions with Alex didn't sound like a healthy friendship or fun.  Too one sided/caretaker stuff.  Do you think some of them were concerned you were trying to date them or hook up with them?

This is one of my greatest fears. I don't have romantic feelings for Alex but I can see him thinking that. If he rejected my friendship because of that I'd feel so awful, even though I know that's a reflection on him and not me.

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

I dunno, I like to think that I was lucky when it comes to friends. I was not extroverted by any chance, but my family always encouraged me to meddle with people. So I had extended family and friends of a family. Afterward in elementary, I had friends from school, some of which I did go out in town(you start to do that early here lol). Then in high school I had friends from there. And in faculty, even though it was a different city, had roommates and people from my class. Lots of them I am even friends to this day.

But I do understand that if you introverted(which you probably are), it doesnt go that way. You are probably by definition, not that easy to be friends with. As you dont bond easily and gain new friends. So being rejected by one friend group hit you very bad. While in actuality, its not that tragic. Because there are other people there to hang out with. For example, in my faculty group, I knew multiple cases where people didnt even talked to each other. And yet they were a part of class and hang out with different groups. Even people who were not liked. One of my women friends was a "tattletale". Very unreliable to say something to. And yet she still had various groups of friends. Because its not the end of the world if one group doesnt like you. It could be them, it could be even you, that is all part of life. In your case its probably them. Who even tells their friends that they are "not compatible" lol

Second thing is, you have to be willing to hang out with people. Meaning to show up when you are invited, take an interest in them, maybe even invite them somewhere yourself. If you are introvert, or even if you only complain, people will not be willing to hang out with you. Fortunately for you, you have a chance to start over. So maybe, if you are open to it, you meet some better friend group at different university. Because this one didnt sound really nice at all.

He said it as politely as he could, but I don't understand how he wanted us to be "university friends" after letting me know he's not himself around me and that we don't compliment each other well. So when we did return and I was very cold and uncomfortable (because I felt like I was making him uncomfortable), to the rest of the group I just seemed like an *** for no reason.

He described me as outgoing and bubbly whilst the rest of the group is reserved (computer science students), and thats why he thinks it was hard for me interact with them
 

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's great you're going back to school. Please start looking into campus life there. See what sports, clubs groups events and other extracurricular activities they have available so you can make friends and socialize.

Please also see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health and get some tests done. Ask for a referral to a licensed qualified therapist for ongoing support.  This could help you both with friends and family and adjusting 

 

100%. I think one of the biggest issues was my lake of support system. It made me rely emotionally on anyone I could find, and I think they could sense this desperation. It makes me feel pathetic to think about. But this time I'll try my best to diversify my social life and actually spot red flags this time.

Could you tell me more about these tests to get done? In terms of mental health I've been assessed for certain things, but do you mean blood tests for physical? if so, which ones?

9 hours ago, catfeeder said:

If you could win a million dollars to figure out anything that may have put these people off, what would be your top guesses?

Honestly, I kind of stick of like a sore thumb in terms of identity. They all come from similar backgrounds but i'm Gay and black. A lot of the questions they ask me are really odd questions you'd only ask if you'd never interacted with someone like me, e.g "do you wear makeup", "do you have a Taylor swift twitter account" etc etc. I don't think it was malicious, but you can definitely feel the disconnect.

10 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

Yes, I think we need more context. 

What were your interactions with these people like? And specifically this person Alex? How often did you see and speak to each other? 

It seems there must be more to this story than a bunch of people suddenly deciding to take space from you. Perhaps if you describe your friendships with more detail we can pinpoint what went wrong here. 

Me and Alex spoke every day of university for a year. We both cared and checked up on one another a lot, asking about family life, how well they're sleeping, eating, emotional state, relationships etc. Basically two people with the classic helper/caretaker mentality. The other two people in the group are very very reserved. I've tried talking to them and being friendly but they've been very cold since Day 1. I will admit that after a while I started to become passive aggressive towards one of them, and i totally understand and accept that they don't, and never will like me.

I asked Alex if he would like to hang out, outside of a classroom setting; playing videogames at my university house and he said he'd love to, joking about how he would never lose to me. Nothing came about this however and I asked him about it via text and thats how the conversation about how we don't really feel like real friends started, leading to him saying that we're not compatible. I actually asked him about it at the start of the 2nd year because I didn't know why he agreed if he felt this way and he just said "it was more of a passive yes", which... I don't really get...

15 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

If you have changed universities and are still so hurt/sad after two years, all you are doing is setting yourself up for a repeat scenario (imo).  People will sense the wall you have put up around yourself and not want to approach you. They'll keep their distance (in other words, "reject" you), again.

Consider seeing the on-campus trained counselor to help you navigate your emotions and guide you over the hurdles.  This is a you problem - you're the common denominator - and I think counseling is the only way to go for you to help you work through where it's all coming from and why.

I should have worded it better, this event takes place over the span of two years, not two years ago. We were friends for an entire year, then at the end of the first year they told me they don't want to be friends because they're "not they're real self around me" and that its not my fault, we're just incompatible. The summer holiday was 6 months and I left during the start of 2nd year because being in class was too depressing (5 months ago). It was just very painful to feel so excluded from a group especially when you thought you were getting close with someone you thought was your friend (and confided in emotionally)

I know WHY it hurts the way it does, its a complex mix of being neglected as a child and being rejected from the concept of a group of people i looked up to.

I feel so pathetic for even typing this. This will be a HEAVILY abridged version of events as it would be too long to type, though I may update this post to add context created by comments asking questions/giving advice, so feel free! (because this will seem confusingly simply at first)

I started university 2 years ago and quickly entered a "friendship" group. I thought we got along okay, though I later discovered that none of them really liked me. I was mostly friends with one person in particular, let's call him Alex. We bonded fairly quickly since we both liked to check up on one another, seeing how they're feeling, family life, supporting one another etc. but slowly they started to pull away from me and seemed to dislike being near me. This culminated in them texting me that we're not compatible as friends, but they don't mind talking to me in class. I was extremely heartbroken that someone I considered a friend seemed to not feel themselves around me, but what made it worse is that the rest of the group spent the summer together. I spent that summer feeling extremely rejected and when I came back, i just felt like the odd one out. They're all real friends and i'm just the guy everyone has to tolerate being around.

It got so bad that I had to leave university because of how depressed I was over the way the situation played out. I've described the full scenario to the university's safeguarding team, multiple therapies and my family and keep getting back the same feedback; "these people sound awful", "i know it hurts", "you deserve better", "they sound extremely confusing" etc etc. But it's been a year now and i'm still not over it.

I'm set to go back to university (a different one) in September, but i'm still extremely sad and have no idea what to do anymore. I know WHY i'm sad (a mixture of rejection, emotional neglect and them representing my neglectful parents) but I don't know how to get over it..? any advice will be helpful (and i'll provide more context)

TLDR; I was rejected at university, left and now I don't know how to get over it and be happy with my life.

14 hours ago, AGrPerson said:

Well, I'm sure he has positive parts too, but how he treats you is what matters. Do you feel happy when in his presence? Does he value you? Does he treat you as an equal? That's what matters. A good technique is to get a notebook and write down all his positive and negative qualities and all the positive and negative interactions with him. This will make you understand if he is worthy or not.

It's been months of going back and fourth like this in my head and in paper... My therapists seem to think he's awful, but i think he's great... he just doesn't like me. Which makes me feel ashamed and low, like if I were to just act "normal" then he would treat me like he used to and treats others (very kindly and nurturing).

28 minutes ago, AGrPerson said:

I have read your story and I have to say that your "friend" doesn't seem like a person worthy to hang out with. I have too been in groups of friends during my university life and I can assure you that the people who wanted to ostracize other people from the group ended up being the worst people I know in terms of their character and personality.

You are really young, you will have the opportunity to make plenty of friends. Have you tried making new friends at your university? I know that a lot of people may already have their groups of friends, but the trick here is to focus on people individually and try to make friends with each one of them. Just be polite, open to having conversations and be the one to suggest going out.

You don't want to spend any more time around a person who doesn't see the value in you. Instead you should invest that time into forging new relationships.

 

Everyone I seem to explain this situation to (including three different therapists) seem to HATE this friend. I just feel like i'm explaining only the negative parts... but maybe they're right and that I do deserve better? I think I just made a normal person exhausted and anxious with my presence...

52 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry you dropped out of school. Do you live with family? It's good you are taking care of yourself and your physical and mental health. Please understand that people may feel suffocated when you rely too much on one person as your friend.  Please consider re-enrolling in university. 

 

You're absolutely right ! I try to keep my personal life/struggles to myself but when they said I could trust them to talk I believed them... I don't want to emotionally rely on anyone beyond myself again because I risk getting very hurt. I am planning to re-enroll on a different course in September, so I have 7 months of time to heal and grow as a person I guess.

I can't learn self-love because of my fear of hurting others

Hello all, I'm a young on the journey of learning self-love.

Recently, I 20m have gone through one of the worst periods of my life. I was a university student who thought they made friends with someone in a group, only to find out that none of them liked being around me. I thought the person I was friends with was really special and I'm very upset that they didn't really like me at all. They think I'm "cool" but not compatible with them.

It felt like we were becoming close. I asked them if they wanted to hang out and they emphatically said yes via text, only for nothing to come about from it (they said it was more of a "passive yes", and they didn't really mean that it would actually happen because they don't really go to anyone's house to hangout...?)

he basically said, in a long paragraph, that he doesn't feel comfortable around me, that he has never himself and that he doesn't want to hang out with me outside of class. This is fair enough, sure the rejection hurts but I don't know how he expected me to go to class every day and talk to him, knowing that he doesn't like being around me. It's like he wanted me to be all normal and happy despite knowing that he's not even himself around me. It hurts so much because I knew the friendship was over and we were already a year into the course, so most of the classes' friendship groups were pretty much set. So I spent that summer feeling extremely depressed.

I later found out they spent the entire summer hanging out with the rest of the group without me and I felt so low and worthless.

When we did return after the summer break, I tried my best to do the whole "friends but not friends" thing but I couldn't do it. I couldn't be in a group where the majority of them didn't like me, and the one person I did like only pitied me.

He even said "I don't mind talking to you... But again I don't think we're compatible... I just don't want you to be alone" which in retrospect is just him saying he feels guilty, not that he wants to spend time with me. The embarrassment of being labelled as "someone I don't really like but talk to out of obligation" compared to the rest of the group who are his actual friends hurt so much.

So, I ended up leaving university, because I was close to ending it all. When I messaged them that I had left because I felt like the situation was too much, they never responded.

I know I've written a lot about how terrible the situation was from my perspective (which is incredibly skewed), but it only hurt because this person was great. I've never met anyone like them, someone who knows themselves and has enough self-esteem and self-actualization to reject someone. Someone who has deep knowledge of his emotions and expresses it. The type of person who can and has cultivated a life of happiness (grades, girlfriend, friends who love him). It hurts to know I'm clearly not a source of happiness for him (as he said).

But that's where my fear lies.

I know I need to live a life of self-love rather than fear and living to be liked by others, but every time I try I feel like *him*. I don't want to hurt someone like I was hurt, just because I love myself. I don't want to reject someone like I was rejected, even if it was the best thing to do. It's a block I can't shake.

And yes, I have a therapist and I'm on antidepressants.

TL;DR : I don't want to hurt someone like I was hurt, just because I love myself.

10 hours ago, Jaunty said:

Are you sure?  In your original post, you described yourself this way:

 

Yes, prior to university I was actually quite the social butterfly, quite easy to get along with according to others. The first day of university, I will admit, was quite bad at the start aha. I can easily see why people avoided me at the time, but after the first day those feelings quickly went away, until around Cyrus asking me that question which really flipped a switch in my mind (in a terrible way)

9 hours ago, catfeeder said:

That’s great that you’re working on the trauma stuff. I’d suggest still working with a campus counselor on the social stuff. Consider it part of your job training. Do some research on how companies view soft skills as increasingly important, and often even more so than technical skills.

Plus, the tools and techniques you can learn can be applied immediately in your classroom environment as well as with clubs and activities. The goal is to become well rounded and more confident in your social skills.

Think of your therapist as psychology and your school counselor as sociology. The combo plate is fantastic.

@catfeederThis is a fantastic idea! My university does have a dedicated "future careers" team that deals with soft skills, so I'll definitely give that a try, thank you 

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

While you are the one who turned this into an emotional landmine for yourself, the good news is, whenever we take full responsibility for what we do, we also own the power to change the course of our behavior--along with our perceptions, which were the cause of it.

@catfeeder
Ohh, sorry there might have been some miscommunication in my original post, or rather it was poorly explained. I wasn't the original person becoming personable or emotional at the start, it was Cyrus. I was actually quite closed off, but he did insist in wanting to talk more and tell him about deeper stuff which I did find odd at the time, but I thought it was just heading in the direction of a friendship. So we both naturally acted like, well, friends.

That's why it was so odd that he all of a sudden didn't seem comfortable with being "actual friends". I'm usually fine just having the work colleague thing, but doing the whole friendship dance and then walking it back just felt so odd? I spoke to someone about the entire situation today and they also found it bizarre.

Also I just want to say thank you to every you wrote to me in this thread, it gave me a lot to think about and I have a greater idea of what I want to do now 💚

3 hours ago, Andrina said:

How about not going into an emotionally packed discussion about the past and just have a lighthearted mindset of being happy for good company? Fake it until you make it. Show you're happy he's your buddy. Talk about your plans for the year. Ask what he's been doing for fun. Try to have a more welcoming expression on your face, as who wants to approach someone who looks like he'll bite their heads off? You need to read up on building your self esteem to get it out of your mind that people are only being nice because of pity. And, or, seek therapy.

I'm sorry for your brutal home life, but now you're an adult and you're going to have to work on building the life you want despite your past. And don't ever have all your eggs in one basket, such as only having one or two friends, because friendships often evolve. Some do grow and last a lifetime, but in other instances, they can lessen or end. 

Yes, it's a good plan to join some groups. In college, I was in the ski club. Besides fun skip trips, we also had a few fun parties. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

I don't really see the point in trying to be friends with someone who doesn't want to be actual friends? I feel like that only serves to hurt me, like the past couples of months slowly has. Also I don't think people are only nice to me out of pity, and I do actually already have a therapist but we're currently doing childhood trauma work. Thank you for the advice on the clubs though.

@Andrina

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

Think of the place as your job and the people as your colleagues. This is not a therapeutic environment.

This is exact mindset I want to have going forward on this course, thank you. I get that i'm meant to be friendly towards them still but it's really hard to interact with someone with "remember, you are not actual friends" at the back of your mind. It's like being friendly but not too friendly since you still have to act professional and guarded but not too much that it comes across as cold or hostile. I know this might be annoying to read from a third party perspective but everything just hurts and is really confusing for me. I feely genuinely heartbroken but I have to get over it and it feels so difficult.

Oh one more thing I just want to say; I'm not usually like this ! I'm usually very easy to get a long with, this feels like such an anomaly, but I suppose we all end up having this awkward-cringe phrase with someone in our lives.

Quote

You have a chance to reverse this in your favor. Don’t invent reasons for choosing not to do so.

Do you mean by doing that small apology talk I was recommended before, and then just act like I'm with work colleagues? Or another thing, sorry?
@catfeeder

9 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I think you put too much emotional investment in this friendship.

Yes and no... I understand from a third party perspective it seems very strange that i've been thinking about this for months and this intensely, but at the time my home situation was very brutal so having someone like Cyrus around me really helped. And I might have developed a small crush on them... which is probably why it feels like a heavier rejection. It might be illogical but that's how I feel.

Quote

If you try to avoid these people you will carry on with the awkward imbalance.  Try to be friendly and keep things light.   I'm pretty sure you will interact with them more going forward since you're all in the same course, so making an effort to ease things will be helpful for you.

I think you're right. I think I'll try to at least have a small talk with the other two to hash out any awkwardness/hostility I might have presented last year. I honestly just want to get on with my work, I can't believe I let my "social life" get in the way of my academics.
 

@Jaunty

I just realised I mixed up the comments! so sorry aha

14 hours ago, catfeeder said:

You may want to rethink trying to avoid Cyrus and the other two next term, because nobody said that they consider you an enemy. I’d gather from Cyrus’ question that they viewed you as being hostile toward them, not the other way around. And that made Cyrus uncomfortable with you as well.

Oh this is almost certainly the case. I was definitely the major problem, but I also don't think they hate me or anything, they just don't feel comfortable around me, which makes me just want to avoid them because I can't STAND feeling like a burden or actively making people uncomfortable with my presence. 

15 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Well, that IS in your power to correct. I would greet each of them warmly when you see them. I’d find an appropriate time to ask each of them, either separately or together, for a quick word. Then tell them that you realize you behaved badly last year and you are sorry for that. Let them respond with no interruption, then just thank them for hearing you out.

It's so hard to explain my thinking, but I feel like this only adds more burden? I know they're going to respond with "It's okay, no need to apologize, no hard feeling" because they're nice/passive people who don't really care about me. Not in a mean way, they just don't know me enough to care, at least for Scott and Luigi.

I can really see him sitting next to me on the first day back out of kindness, but I'm thinking about just saying to Cyrus "Hey, sorry I had you feel so uncomfortable last year. I want you feel like yourself at university and I want you to thrive on this course, whether that's with me around you or not.", just to give him the option to sit and interact with others excluding me, whilst letting him know there are no hard feelings.

15 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Everybody has some cringeworthy experiences they look back on and wish they could have handled better. Well, you have the opportunity to make your next term better than you are imagining now. You’ll just need to step up to do that.

Aha, that's true. Thank you so much for your comment, it's given me a lot to think about, and i'm thinking what would be the best way to return for me that I can feel comfortable doing, though I know i'll have to be a little brave. @boltnrun

18 hours ago, boltnrun said:

One thing I regret is when I was in college I didn't take advantage of all the groups, events and activities the college had to offer. I limited myself to a small group of friends (and a boyfriend in my second year). I feel I missed out on so much.

I recommend you look into clubs, activities, events and groups you can get involved in. Surely there are other people who share your interests besides these three. If you get involved with others you will soon find you don't even miss these people.

And just so you know, I had a completely different friend group the second year. I seldom saw any of my friends from the first year. And it was fine, although again I regret not getting more involved with clubs and activities. If I could go back in time that's what I would do.

@catfeeder I think that makes a lot of sense, thank you! My university does have a lot of societies, so I think i'll make it a priority in my second year to join as many of the ones that interest me as I can, even if only a little, and see which ones stick.