Clarabelle

Oh, buddy, what a good guy you are to stick by those children, and to stick by her. You are in a difficult situation, there is no doubt about that. Your gf is young and has a lot of things to work out. I truly hope that she finds clarity for her own sake and for the sake of the children and you. It seems to me as I'm re-reading your post that this young woman seeks out male attention when she's going through stress. I've known other women like her; one of my best friends did this consistently until it broke up her marriage. Finally she was able to confront this habit and now she has been with the same cool guy for the past seven years. But it's not easy for these drama queens (I don't say that pejoratively either). You might think about establishing some ground rules for behavior for yourself to help stabilize the situation - no sexual contact, scheduled times per week with her children, limited courteous supportive and non-judgmental interactions. Let her know how much you care, and how much you are committed to helping her find solutions to her issues. You might need to wait a while for this cycle she's in to ease off a bit before you can have productive conversations with her.

Hi Nicholas - I'm a pianist, vocalist and composer.

Muneca (and Beec), I really thought about your previous posts a lot during this holiday weekend. I text-messaged my husband to let him know we were coming back home and he called me right away. Then after I got off the phone with him I thought about all the nice things he has done during the separation just so we could have fun together and the nice things he has done for me during this time and before, I texted him again to say thank you and how much I had appreciated them. We had dinner together as a family and he told me with tears in his eyes how much he appreciated getting my message. He said "I'm not saying this so that you do it all the time to get me to come back, but this is what I really like to hear. "

I had another insight on the way back home which was to LET GO. To be specific, when I felt panicked about wanting a resolution, to acknowledge those thoughts and let go of them; when I felt anger toward him or the fact that he had gotten involved with someone else, to let go of it; and when I started feeling like we had to be together, to LET GO. Everytime I had negative feelings or thoughts about situations over which I had no control, I told myself to let go. Sometimes I felt like bursting into tears. Other times I felt like laughing. And other times it was letting out a long sigh.

Yes, I think I could have been a lot more appreciative. And he has told me a number of times that he needs a lot of affection, and when I became less affectionate toward him, he really lost it. He felt unappreciated. He has been very affectionate toward me lately, even more so since I got stricter about limited contact. Unfortunately, as I've cut off contact, I feel like I've had to cut down on being caring and affectionate. I don't know if it's appropriate to express those things to him now and I don't know how.

I texted my husband and said that I was sorry if had spoken in a grumpy way with him and that it was because of our anniversary. And that it would be better if he didn't come over. I wasn't sure if I'd be able to act in a cool, calm and collected manner. I thought that was that, but he called me shortly thereafter, saying that he understood, and we laughed about the fact that for the past few years we had always forgotten our anniversary, and suddenly now we start remembering it. He said that he loved me and our daughter, and that he hoped we had a great weekend trip. I couldn't react with the same warmth or expressions of love - I just didn't feel like expressing those things now - and said thanks and good bye. Then he called again several hours later to say that he loved us and no one else, that we were his family, and that whatever he was doing now was just a phase. Again, I didn't really know what to say. I felt a bit choked up but also somewhat annoyed (annoyed as in, if that's how you feel, then make up your mind!). I managed to say "we love you too. goodbye." I can see how my husband has treated me with more respect since I became more rigorous about NC. On the one hand, I'd like to believe what he says, on the other hand, I don't want to be jerked around.

It sounds like you both are young. I don't know how much romantic experence you both have had, but sometimes when feelings are new and somewhat unexplored, they can be threatening. She might have gotten scared off and that has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with her own feelings and experiences. It sounds like you see each other frequently in school. Work on being friends for now. Concentrate on your studies and your friends. Have fun.

I agree with Muneca. It's time to let go, and it's probably best to do it without involving his family. It sounds like it might be uncomfortable for everyone concerned, and I question whether it is truly necessary. If this woman treated you like a daughter, I would hope that she would understand your reasons for not staying in touch with her, and be compassionate and non-judgmental.

First love is special, and it does touch our lives in deep and profound ways.

I agree with Azure Phoenix. You haven't been together very long, and he doesn't seem like he wants to offer you a commitment (exclusive). Why not concentrate on your friendship with this person, if you think you really like him? that would be the best way to find out what is there between the two of you. When you are on more stable terms with him, then you can express how you feel.

Cassiana, I hope that his reply is thoughtful and caring, whenever it arrives. That will be better for you, don't you think? Remember, if you don't want to, you don't have to respond right away to his messages.

Muneca, you bring up an interesting point, and not an easy one to answer. I'm a musician with some degree of success, but certainly with many, many goals to achieve still. My husband used to throw it in my face that I haven't achieved more professionally. It was very hurtful. He is an aspiring musician (in his living room) and hasn't accomplished anything, but is quick to say "when I'm ready, I can have it all in the palm of my hand. What's wrong with you?" He was stuck in a dead end job but I really encouraged him to go back to his first love, personal training and bodybuilding. Consequently, he developed a very successful practice - another thing he loves to lord over me: "I'm a success story. Why can't you accomplish your goals?" As I've mentioned, one of our core issues is about power and control. I think he IS threatened by me. I always tried to give him lots of encouragement to do whatever he wanted to do, but he is determined to one-up me.

Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary. My husband wants to come over tonight, I'm not sure why, maybe because my daughter and I are headed out of town for the weekend. I had sort of an unpleasant day with him today so for that reason alone I don't want to see him, and I don't want to "celebrate" our anniversary.

CJZ, not much time has passed if you 2 broke up in July. You need to trust yourself and trust the process. Keep yourself busy doing things you like to do, or used to like to do, get out of the house, see your friends, go to the movies, whatever. Then one day - and it doesn't matter when - you'll realize that you're feeling better.

I really understand your situation about the living arrangements, and how destructive that can be. When my daughter was 15 months old, she became lead poisoned from inhaling old paint residue, which unfortunately is common with people who live in historic homes. At the same time, our landlord raised the rent substantially, even though he was not dealing with lead situation responsibly. We were essentially forced to move and the only thing we found was a small, dingy apartment in a rough section of town. We had very little privacy in the apartment - it was just a studio (one room). Plus it had a serious mouse problem. That was really the beginning of the end for us. It was so depressing living there, and it created many problems between us.

Hi herewegoagain, as far as when do you contact her again, you'll know when you know. I don't think it's helpful to use NC while thinking about when it's going to be over - it defeats the purpose. You just take care of you. It's for your healing, and it will take you where you need to go. My ex-BF waited over a year to contact me after I broke up with him. I think he wanted to wait until he felt strong and confident and wouldn't care one way or another about the result of our conversation. It worked in his favor, because I heard recently that he got married, had gotten into fantastic shape, and bought a house. So while we did not reconcile, as he had initially wanted, his life moved forward in rich and unexpected ways.

Dr. Nick, your post was on point and appreciated, as are the other posts to this thread. The more I restrict my interactions with him to limited courteous contact, the better I feel and the better I can work with the situation. I have moments of panic and anxiety where I really just want the situation to be resolved, like I've been having over the past few days, but when those feelings subside, I'm able to see the forest for the trees again. I can recognize that I'm happier and more free than I've been in months, my professional life is progressing, and my daughter is thriving from not having an angry, unpredictable person in the house. My husband also has his ups and downs and cycles of negativity, but he is doing better as well. Individual counseling is helping a lot for both of us. Interestingly enough, I realized yesterday that some of this anxiety and panic was brought about by the fact that my therapist is on vacation. A classic New Yorker in August! I used to think it was just a cliche! In my moments of clarity, I'm not so desperate for resolution and I feel at peace. It's very clear to me that, like Dr. Nick says, if my husband and I are to reconcile, my husband needs to feel like he is worthy of me again, which he said to me recently. The separation has allowed him to see ways in which he does not act in a loving, cooperative and responsible manner. My question to myself lately has been: how do I pinpoint when these feelings of anxiety and panic are coming on? What triggers them? What are helpful ways to work with them? How do I maintain a positive attitude? It's becoming more clear to me all the time that my husband is not the one with who I should discuss these matters, because he is grappling with them as well.

With-holding sex and stating give me what I want to do not work with my husband, even with a sexy smile and bedroom eyes. He has a belief that others are there to accommodate him and cater to his demands, but he doesn't have to follow anyone else's rules, and people holding out on him, even in a sexy, confident way, makes him angry. One of the things that he said several times about his gf (who he also admitted not being very attracted to) was that she does whatever he wants without making any demands. This is one of our core issues - that I am the one responsible for making this work and if only I would just see that everything he's doing is already perfect, I would do whatever I could. In short, I'm the one who has to make everything work and he doesn't have to compromise or negotiate or work together. Believe me, I tried. I think that this issue has less to do with sex than with power and control. I'm older than he is, I have a lot more experience sexually than he does, and the thought that I've had other bfs before who might have pleased me more is very threatening to him, even though I let him know over and over again that they don't compare to him at all and that he was the one I chose. We became intimate again back in july and continued until very recently, and he told me that he regretted being so selfish in the past. I noticed a change in him, more willingness to please me, more willingness to share, and to be equal. It was great for a while, but after over six weeks of sex with no change in our status, I felt uncomfortable about it, particularly since he continued to be with his gf, as far as I know. He didn't say anything to the contrary. So I've cut off sexual contact. I'm losing respect for this man when I look at what's happened in the past, and when I look at drinking and drug use now, and his willingness to deceive his new gf. I sent him a message on Monday saying that I was going to pursue a separation agreement, which he finds very threatening, and that the only other alternative I saw to that would be him coming back to his family and doing the necessary work. He didn't respond - no surprise there - and later that night he babysat for our daughter and when I came home, told me he was going to bring me a computer on tuesday (which he never did). Monday and Tuesday he was friendly and chatty. I was friendly and a little less forthcoming, just kind of neutral, and while it's less fulfilling than the "dates" we were having just about every day during the week, it feels safer.

It wasn't that we stopped having sex - far from it! What happened was typical of a lot of our power and control struggles. He only wanted to have sex "his way" and would become very impatient with anything he thought took too long. Remember too, we had a baby, so things change. The focus shifted - my center of attention shifted to the child - so at times he would get very annoyed and even punitive if we couldn't have sex whenever and however he wanted. When you have to beg and plead someone to pay attention to your needs, it takes it out of you, and it doesn't do much for ones self-esteem. Plus his idea of a response to "you need to know you're sexy?" was wanting to have sex. He wanted to be pursued sexually and have attention paid to him but was not willing to pay that kind of attention, frequently saying, "it takes too long. We don't have much time before the baby wakes up. let's just take advantage of this moment. But yeah, blow me for 20 minutes before we do that!" Very frustrating, esp. since in the beginning he had been much more responsive and into sharing.

I think so, too, Carthiana. I don't think it's by any means "THE END", although as I've mentioned before, I'm becoming less inclined to want to stay in the marriage. When I've brought up separation agreements before, he becomes very upsey and says that he wants to come back to his family, but he doesn't feel ready. It occurs to me that if I want that, it will need to be on his terms, because I was the dumper.

Beec and Muneca, thank you both for your messages. They were both well-taken. It's certainly true that the two of us played a part in this breakup taking place. I've been taking stock of those things during the time of this separation, and the "NC-for-parents" i.e. limited courteous contact focused primarily on the child has been helpful. I'm at a turning point right now, because as time goes on, I feel less inclined to stay together, and that a separation agreement would be helpful in reinforcing that limited courteous contact (as opposed to him showing up and wanting to have Sunday breakfast with us - probably nice for him, since he has the gf to fall back on, but confusing for me). I'm at a point where we either should probably decide to stay together once and for all, or get the separation agreement, so I can move on with life. If we stay together, we are going to have to do a lot of work to get back on track.

That's cool, but don't over analyze something you heard, especially third hand. If you grab on too hard to that glimmer of hope, you can snuff it out! Enjoy it and let it go.

Friends with benefits seems appealing, because the person is familiar and safe. You don't have the stress and aggravation of starting all over again with a new partner who you might have to commit to. I've had several friends with benefits, but they weren't exes. I recently cut off having sex with my ex, because I realized I was doing it to get him back and it wasn't really working. He wanted to spend time with me, but wasn't willing to break up with his new gf or tell her that he was still sexually involved with me, and I didn't want to be a part of that.

Orex, I an also going thru a separation with kids, so the first thing I thought as I was reading the first posts is that your wife is acting this way for your children's well-being. Her hesitancy and seeming mixed signals is her wanting to remain friendly with you so that your children see you acting friendly with eachother and aren't upset by the break-up. When I got to your last post, my suspicions were confirmed. I have been going through something similar with my husband and have asked him (today) for a separation agreement so that we don't have this ambiguity hanging over us. I would rather have set rules than have him calling me all the time to supposedly make arrangements, because he only takes care of our daughter at my place 3x a week and only til 9pm - doesn't leave much room for a fulfilling newly single life, does it? I know if there is any chance of reconciliation (which for me seems unlikely), a separation agreement is easily overturned. Why don't you ask for one too, and get on with your life? She has let you know very clearly she cannot continue with you. I know it hurts, but your children need you to be happy, strong and self-reliant.

Wanderer, when I read your post, I was reminded of a relationship that I had about seven years ago. we were doing fine, saying I love you, making plans to get engaged, when one day I realized very suddenly that I did not love this person. I felt very guilty about this realization and our break up was difficult, because I knew that I had told him many things to the contrary. I had a hard time articulating my reasons to him because I didn't want to hurt him and didn't want him to start fighting with me, so I think that I was a little vague with him. We even went to a couples counselor, even when I knew that it was not right for me. I'm not saying that this is the case with you. The human heart does not process things rationally, as we all know. You have to be strong and let time do its work. When you feel ready, really ready, you can initiate contact with her, then you can see what she does. Good luck.

I think you got all those calls from him in one day either because he was feeling guilty or because he wanted to see if you would give him a response, for the ego gratification.

Here's an update. I told the ex that I didn't want to be part of his deception - he has a gf that he refuses to stop seeing, even though he says that we are reconciling - and that it was making me lose respect for him. He said "fine, I never told you what to do with your life, I just want to be able to see my little daughter" to which I responded, let's get a legal separation agreement so that everyone knows what to expect, either that or you come back to your family. No response to that one, which I could have predicted. He has an issue about power and control with me. He wants to be the one who decides how and when we reconcile, esp. since I was the dumper. What he doesn't recognize is that he still can decide what he wants to do, no one is power tripping him. I simply told him I didn't want to be part of his complicated drama anymore - no more sex, in other words, while the gf is in the picture - and that every day that passes with us apart makes it seem more unlikely that we should be together.

I'm in agreement with Mike and La Sirena. Sounds like you want him to be a good guy, but the facts speak for themselves. YOu are doing great. One day soon I'm sure it's going to hit that you feel good, better than you have in a long time, and that your life is moving forward.

Probably better for you to send something a little lighter and more neutral, like all the best to you on your special day, and that's it.

Luciana, I read yr story in the past and I'm happy for you on the one hand. On the other hand, if this thing is going to work, you have to take stock of the things that you can do for yourself. You need to manage your anxiety which is causing you to put pressure on yourself and on him. The better you feel about yourself, the better you will be able to conduct yourself in this relationship which will need a lot of love and care to get back on its feet. It can be difficult to decide if you really want this person in your life if you live together, but you need to decide if this person treats you with kindness and respect and love. If yes, and you want to keep him in your life, then great. But you will have to decide what you want regarding the marriage issue which I know has been the source of contention in the past. Don't shortchange yourself if marriage is what you want and if not having it is going to cause you stress. But if you can enjoy what your bf has to offer, choose that happiness. Good luck! Boa sorte, menina!