a religious topic!

[Channy1727]

hey well im bi but im having a few thoughts on like religion and stuff. wher in the bible does it say that its against chrisitanity to be gay?? dont any of you have any doubts about what if we're doing the wrong thing? like im trying to decide if i want to spend the rest of eternity suffering because i was bi, or should i give it up(with great effort may i add).

what do you guys reckon??

[spaggle]

hi there!, I too wondered about how the bible said it's wrong to be gay. There is a strong part of the bible that strictly says its against homosexuality. But even thought the bible is said to be the word of God. It has been changed time and time again, also alot of things in the bible don't add up to contemporary problems. It all depends on why you are judeao or christian. Are you only looking to religion because your scared of death and what will happen after you die. Do you honestly believe that God would give people these feelings and let them suffer if it was wrong to act on the feelings that hes given us? Surely that would imply that the Judao/Christian God in the bible is not Omnibenevolent (all good), he wouldnt let us suffer with these feelins if he wanted his people to be happy.

In my opinion the chapter in the bible that refers to homosexuality was only probably written because alot and i mean alot of people in those times were against any form of same sex activities/relationships, so one way they could stop/make people feel bad is by making it the word of god that homosexuality is wrong.

Never hide who you are, always be yourself, thats the only way you will ever be happy.

Spaggle x

[Channy1727]

but you know, the romans were the ones that brought about homosexuality i think, so it wasnt exactly the will of God to give us these feelings. in the bible it says that Babylon, a city that meant the Roman Empire, and at the back of the bible it says that the city of babylon is the mother of every immoral and filthy thing on earth. so we cant blame our feelings on God, its some thing we got from them Romans. and i do believe in God coming back for his followers and it says out of every one in the world he only takes 144,000 followers up. and thats when he begins his punishment. lol have a made it a lil bit harder? please keep giving me your theory's i really need to know.

[Hiwater]

Hi,

 

I was raised in a very religious family. I am a Christian. I believe in Christ our savior. I fall short more often than I should, but I believe, and I try to do what is right, though I sometimes fail. When I was in Highschool I had a normal life, I considered myself straight, and had lived a straight life. The thought of being "gay" had crossed my mind before, but I always fought it. I dissmised it, becasue I was afraid. I didn't want to disappoint God and ruin my eternity. Then I met this girl. We were friends for more than a year before nything happened. then I fell in love with her. I couldn't help myself. Everything with her just felt so right. One night we both gave in. It was one of the most beautiful expieriences of my life. But that night I cried myself to sleep. I got on my knees and begged for forgiveness for what i had done. But despite how I tried to fight it, it happened again, and again. 5 years later, we are still together, and still in love. We are both getting ready to graduate college. We have lived together for 2 years. I lived with the fear and guilt of being damed to hell for so long. It is the worst feeling. My guilt is still not completetly gone, but it does get better. I can' tell you that I'm positive that I'm not worng, but here's how i look at it now. I used to see it as a handicap, a test in life that I was to overcome, but failed. But I read a letter this minister wrote about it once. It said that love, not lust, is pure and good in any form it comes in. God is love, and for some reason I am supposed to love this woman. I believe that God loves me, and i believe that he does test us, but he doesn't set us up to fail. And no matter how I fought it, i couldn't stop it. God created me, and for some reason that I still do not know, this is how I turned out. Everything happens for a reason,that i know is true. I still consider myself to be a straight woman, I am only physically attracted to men, my girlfriend is the only exception. She is the only person I have ever slept with, we have a commited monogomous relationship, and still practice our religious beliefs. What is sooo wrong about that? I used to be so antigay, and then it happened t me. Whether it is right or wrong, I can't say for sure, i still struggle with it daily, but I just keep remembering what I told you, and I look at my girlfirned and the life we've built together, and I remember that it is worth it to me.

 

Sorry to ramble on, I hope this helped. I just ant you to know that i've been in your postition, and it will get better.

[Channy1727]

yeh i know God wouldnt set us up to fail but satan would, temptation is some thing we're supposed to fight and overcome. Satan is the one who wants us to fail not God. isnt it true the reason religious ppl are against gays is because in the bible there is a section(im not sure im right) about the gays raping the angels, i know it seems far fetched, but its a reason for it. As a test God would give us, is to give up every thing for him. thats what i think. So maybe he wants us to give up some thing we really want and need ( our gfs etc) and follow him instead. im just having a big confused problem at the moment bout if i am making the right choice. i dont want to be damned for eternity! i get one chance for this, and all the answers are in one book. God couldnt have made it easier for us to at least consider. i believe in Christ, i just really love my gf too.

[Channy1727]

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10. nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

im finding more stuff against what we want, and its not looking good.

[Hiwater]

I'm not sure about the raping the angels thing? But that is another thing that suggests that all gays sleep around and are evil and commit grotesque sexual crimes. All gays are not like that. There area large numer of us that are normal peoeple who get up and go to work everyday. Also, Satan tempts us to do evil and to sin, not to love. Pure and true love of someone I've come to believe is never ever evil. Look, I've been where you are, and right now you're in the stage where you're coming up with every contradiction and doing everything in your power to pass this "test". we are supposed to serve God, give up everything for him, But how are we supposed to know what his will for us is. Mabey you are being led in this direction for a reason, but mabey you are right, and it is a test. Everything is how you inturrpret it. Ultimately you have to make a decision that is what you believe to be right. But I prmise, it will get better, and I pray that you find peace with yourself.

 

How does your gf feel about it?? how long have you been together?

[Hiwater]

about corinthians. I believe in the bible and its contents, but I believe that yes it is te word of God, but some may have been distorted by man. Also, that verse describes something that almost everyone on earth has been at some point in their lives. "Whoever believeth in me shall not perish, but have eternal life." I believe.

[Channy1727]

ive been with my gf for almost 3 years, and ive mentioned it and she thinks this isnt going to help our relationship(obviously). but this is not something you just push over your shoulder.i was a christian before i met her and it kinda slowly got weaker, but now im having stronger thoughts on this.

like if i had to ask someone if they believed that God will come and take his followers away, most of them would probably agree that he is going to do that, but i asked them if its possible thats its going to happen in our generation? they would say no, not in our life time. like honestly, thats what i thought, but then, the only reason you would think that is cause 'your' not ready to face it cause that would like signal our doom. (is that like denial) like whats stopping God from returning? this is the last major event on his schedule isnt it?

we have a chance to abandon our selves from satan and follow jesus, but we dont. i mean whats more important to us? to me im torn....

[Channy1727]

of course we are going to choose love over giving it up, isnt that us being looking for an easier way out???

[Hiwater]

look, I don't want you to think that I take this all lightly. I still deal with it everyday. Every day I have a long talk with God about it. I keep asking him to lead me in the direction that I should go, and to give me the courage to do what he asks of me, and here I am still. I don't just sit around and try to find ways to rationalize my actions. I take responsibility for them. I used to think so much like you do right now. Nomatter what anyone said, I had a comeback. guess what, you can do it forever, go back and forth, back and forth. but at the end of the day, you have a decison to make. Also, I don't know what God's schedual is, noone does. That is a good way of putting it though, i like that. But i do think that it is very possible that it could be our generation. My dad and i were just talking about it the other night actually. When we sin, and do wrong. we have this thing inside us that sets off this red flag that says "this is wrong". Sometimes we stop, but sometimes we continue, but always we know it is wrong and terrible. We have a built in sense of right and wrong. Ask yourself, if qhen you are with your girlfriend do you truly get that red flag, or is it years of being brought up to believe it was wrong. In your heart, if none ever told you either way,do you feel like it is wrong.

[Luciana]

Religion=ignorance, illusion, fantasy.

If you are an atheist, like me, you will get rif of all rhe foolishness of someone out there watching you. You will know that only outselves can take control of our lives, and that morals have nothing to do with religion.

Religion is the cause or more death in the history of mankind then disease and wars combined.

I have two teenagers that are secular like me and they are the kindest, polite, good students, keep out of touble and respect others. And I know so many people who are religious and do terrible things.

The freedom of mind you have when you are not religious is fantastic.

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[Laconic]

The story that was mentioned of the gays raping the angels in the story of Lot, Abraham's nephew. Lot lived in the city of Sodom (as in, Sodom and Gomorrah), and according to the Bible it was a very degenerate place. Lot was the only righteous man in the city. God was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, so he sent two angels in human form to Lot to tell him to leave the city. The angels stayed with Lot for a little while, and the citizens found out about the two strange men and came to Lot's door and said, quote, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

 

Lot, aghast, offered them instead his two virgin daughters as a matter of appeasement. But the angels being angels, nothing bad happened to anyone except for the evil men, who were "struck blind" according to the Bible.

 

Unfortunately that became the archetype for homosexuals; lewd, degenerate, evil. Personally, I believe that homosexuality is a sin. It's hard to pin down in the Bible exactly where it says this, as I generally discount the Old Testament in matters of law (do we still kill our children if they are rebellious, as it says to?), and the New Testament is open to many interpretations. However, the answer I was just given by God was that extramarital union is very clearly wrong, as per the Bible, and only a man and a woman can be married in the religious sense (for the record, I am all for civil unions that would give gay couples the same rights as straight couples).

 

That is not to say I condemn gays, either. Homosexuality is a sin, yes, but so are countless other acts that everyone on Earth is guilty of. In the Bible it states that no sin is worse than any other, they all hurt God equally (the only exception is blasphemy, for which there is no forgiveness). There is no reason to condemn gays or hate them or judge them; I am a sinner just as they are, just as everyone is. We are all given temptations to overcome, and I would be lying if I said I've failed to overcome many myself. It's my job to love my fellow human beings, all of them, as Christ loves me..not to cast stones.

 

Edited for typos.

[Channy1727]

of course, im not against gays in the slightest, as im bi. but just because humans do other sins and all that stuff... thats nothing to do with us, we have our own sin to handle. one of the ppl on here said it was a thing about right and wrong and we had to figure out if it was right or wrong at the time i was with my gf. but is it really like that, shouldnt i know before i have to do it(sex etc) homosexuality is wrong in Gods laws, no doubt about it, i have looked over a few quotes that say it is. i posted one yesterday.

by the way, i dont think religion is a fantasy or illusion, its more a belief. i know some remarkable ppl who are religious. im christian and i dont think i control my life, God does. it may be fantastic when you are on earth having freedom of mind, but ppl are probably going to pay for that later. I just have to decide what side of the fence im on....

[chblueguy]

people have to pay for having a free will?? didn't God give us that? I think people don't like to take responsibility for there own actions so they blame the devil or whoever works for evil. Tell me, how do you know God said homosexuality was wrong, did he tell you or did someone tell you that God told someone else that it was wrong. There are plenty of things in the Bible that are ok. Let's see, there's incest (Lot and his daughters), murder, and kinds of things that are outrageous. Like a woman having to be secluded during her period, and after having a baby (longer seclusion if she has a girl). Ask yourself if the God you know to be loving and caring for all people, and who created would feel this way. You said yourself you don't have control over your life, God does, and I'm sure you feel God had everything to do with creating you, so why would he hate what he created? And why would he let Satan interfere?? so he'll have something to do. Take some time to access religion for yourself and don't rely so much on what others tell you what they thing God wants, b/c they know just as much as you do.

[Channy1727]

ive posted a verse from the bible saying who will not go to heaven, look up there or some thing. God doesnt let Satan interfere, God gave us a choice, we either follow him and be saved or follow Satan and be damned for ever. Homosexuality is wrong in the bible no doubts about it. God didnt create us to feel this way, this homosexuality, is something that we got over time, apparently from the romans, which the roman empire is referred to as Babylon, the city of everything that is immoral and filthy. so its something humans evolved to do and it wasnt in Gods intention at all.

does this mean that most homosexual people have chosen to be gay and taken the risk to suffer forever? im not so much listening to every one on what God thinks he wants us to do, cause i know what God wants us to do, i want to know who chose what and how they get by on making that decision.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

As far as I am aware, the Bible never mentions being gay. It simply says that homosexuality is wrong, but it never mentions lesbianism or gayness. If you you that category, just don't act on your desires and you will be fine!!!! I have lots of desires I would like to act on...but I choose not to. Same for you. Don't worry.

[chblueguy]

How do you figure "we" got homosexuality from the romans?? You think the romans invented homosexuality? Then what was sodom and gomorrah about? I think that was before rome. I think you've contradicted yourself a couple of times. I think you've said we don't have control over our lives, God does. And then you've said Satan influences us. And now you've stated that God gave us a choice. Which is it?

 

Also, how in the world do you come up with the notion that homosexuality came from the romans. What about us who have no roman blood in us?? It's also interesting that you said humans evolved homosexuality. Homosexuality also exists in animals such as primates and penguins and all sorts. Now, did they choose to defy God?? Let me share an experiment with you I conducted...

 

In my animal behavior lab, we experimented with rats. We castrated males 1 day after birth and let them grow up to adulthood, and when they were approached by males, they behaved like females sexually. Now, for females, we injected them with testosterone after 1 day of birth, everyday until adulthood, and when they were injected with high levels of testosterone, they tried to mount other females as to mate. Now, the conclusion from this experiment was that embryological hormones greatly affected the orientation of the brain. Now, we can't do human experiments b/c of ethics, but i wonder if we'd get the same results...

 

I have the feeling that you're going to try to supress your feelings and it's going to be a long time before you realize that all that stuff isn't going to work and you can't change who you are. And that people who claim to know what God knows and thinks are secondary and your relationship with God is the only one that should matter. Hopefully you'll realize that sooner than later.

[Channy1727]

man i dont think i know what im doing anymore... sorry about writing all that stuff. i spoke about this with a friend of mine, she is straight and stuff, but even she said i should just be me and do whatever makes me happy. so i guess ill just do that.

[singingwolf]

There is a really good book called "Homosexuality in History" by Colin Spencer. It's an incredibly well researched book that covers history in many cultures, including Christianity. It covers the Sodom and Gomorrah story, which most Biblical scholars agree was a warning against breaking hospitality laws regarding the sacrosanct status of a guest, rather than an anti-gay rant.

 

It also covers Leviticus, which does talk about homosexuality as an "abomination", but correctly points out that the Hebrew word that is used "toevah" means something ritually unclean such as a menstruating woman. This same chapter also condemns the eating of shellfish and wearing clothes made of two kinds of thread. If you're not going to hell for your poly-cotton blend t-shirt, you're probably not going to be damned for loving someone, regardless of gender.

 

There's no doubt that early Jews and Christians had homophobic beliefs. One theory that makes a lot of sense is that the reason was that they were attempting to distance themselves from other religions of the time, "pagan" religions, such as that of Rome and Greece, who viewed bisexuality as normal human behavior.

 

Also, nearly every species of animal on the planet has a certain percentage of the population that is involved in same-sex pairings. If God created the animals as innocents without sin, how can the same behavior in humans be wrong? It was men who wrote the Bible and men who translated each new writing. And not all modern Christians or Jews feel the same about gays and lesbians. My partner and I were married by a Christian minister last year, who was thrilled to be asked to perform the ceremony.

 

Hope things go well for you as you explore your own path.

[lezmonkey19]

these verses your talking about don't really refer to homosexuality so much as the temple of prostitution, in those times women were like nothing, and the opposeing army would rape their enemy to make them feel low(as they viewed woman),this is what they are talking about,there is a big difference between this and a loveing same-sex relationship

[vortex]

Channy1727, frankly I don't know where to begin. So, I'll just talk from experience - those who live, know; those who read, think they know.

 

When I was about 14, I became a fanatical Christian, just like my Dad. I could put up with the "not wearing jeans/trousers, not listening to pop/rock/etc music, not cutting my hair short, not drinking, not smoking". However, the one thing that I just couldn't force myself to be, no matter how much I prayed, was to become a heterosexual. We don't become someone we are not. So, at that time I gave up my faith altogether 'cause I could not deny who I was, that, in my view, would have been a bigger sin.

 

Even now, I ask myself if Christianity is incompatible with homosexuality. I don't have the answer to that. Living our life without causing emotinal and physical harm to others is more important to me than torturing myself and/or others about my sexual and, most importantly, emotional "preference" (let me point out that I don't "prefer" being a lesbian, I AM a lesbian).

 

As a Christian you should know that Love is a gift from God. If you believe that God gave us free will, then surely you don't believe that being a homosexual is a matter of will or choice. Anyway, if you wish to live according to the words of the Bible as a whole (Old and New Testament), then you might think again. There are a lot of verses that I'm sure you'll find hard to agree with, as a person, as a woman and even as a Christians. Translations and interpretations vary, but you can't change who you are.

 

Imagine that you are a tiger or a lion and you are born in the forest, free to to hunt and to do whatever tigers do. Then you are put into a cage and tamed to become a circus animal. You might become a super well tamed animal, but that doesn't change a damn thing to who you are deep down in your heart. So, you can tame yourself to be a heterosexual and you can use religion as an excuse, but that won't change a thing. Today or tomorrow your true nature will show and you may torture yourself as much as you like or you may just accept that you are a human being created by God to love and be loved.

 

Take care

 

 

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