curlygirl47

Wimpy,

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a happy heart today. But here's another motto from a wonderful Tabasco ad: "It's like love. You always want more no matter how badly you got burned the last time."

I need to clean the house this weekend, continue exercising, maybe call a friend or two, and prepare to make the necessary contact to the ex on Tuesday. I owe him money, so I am probably just going to send a money order in the mail with a short "Thank you." However, though it will make Kate gasp and say NOO DON'T DO IT, I am also considering the principles in Blaise Harris's How to Get Your Lover Back, so I am thinking of adding a simple request for time together --- such as, "I'm going to Alabama next weekend. Will you go with me?" It will come as a surprise, I'm sure --- and I think depending on his circumstances, he will consider it. If he doesn't want to, he can simply not respond. No pressure. We have had some good trips together to visit my family, and the request should trigger good memories of pleasant moments (another tip by Harris). So, I might do it.

Ice9,

Here's something from Beyond Blame that I've been thinking about today; it might apply to you as well:

"The truth of the matter is that you desperately want to be accepted and valued by others. Losing the support of people you are closest to would leave you floating through life completely on your own, with nobody you could count on but yourself. This might satisfy your need for control, but it would foster feelings of alienation and isolation. Some of you most intense emotional reactions and deepest fears are thereforeeee lodged in your strong desire to be accepted by others. You will sometimes compromise your most sacred beliefs, back down from a dispute, or initiate a conflict with someone, all in the name of maintaining your stature in other people's eyes as well as your own self-image."

Kate,

I'm feeling better today. I feel less shaky and weighed down by negative thoughts. I'm working better today and giving my attention to other things more easily. Thank goodness for a good day!

Blues, go ahead and write the letter and then see how you feel. Hold on to it for a few days and see if you still want to send it. By the way, do you know the song "Harder Now That it's Over" by Ryan Adams? I will send it to you via e-mail attachment, if you're interested. I thought of it as I was reading your post today. Some of the lyrics: "They slapped 'em on you where that bracelet used to be/You know the one I bought in Phoenix where they sell old jewelry/I was trying to make you angry, but I didn't feed you to the cops/When I threw that drink in that guy's face, it was just to piss you off./Cause honey it's over now; it's harder now that it's over --- harder now that it's over, now that the cuffs are off, and you're free. Free with a history."

I'm having a good day, Blues. I've been feeling better since yesterday evening. Just a sudden emotional and physical lift --- a change in the chemicals --- some kind of shift, I don't know exactly what brought it on. I feel like I am in a kind of "acceptance" mode and yet I also feel more confident that Paul may be coming back. (Weird thing: I've thought also that maybe I won't want him back after everything that has happened). I probably would, but it would be a conscious choice that I would make rather than something happening to me. I am getting back some control.

Liasonred,

I'm dropping in on a few threads today just to add some thoughts from a book I'm reading, Beyond Blame. Something to think about: "The key to diminishing the control that your deepest fears and threats to your internal security have over you involves, first of all, understanding exactly which fears in you are being massaged by others. Two of the most common are the need for control and the need for acceptance."

I know that part of the reason I have been so upset in the past month is that I have lost control in the relationship with my ex and I have also felt unaccepted (rejected). Realizing this helps me to see that I need to regain control and acceptance in some way, and that I can work on this apart from my ex. Maybe you can do this, too? By the way, it has been 11 days of No Contact for me, and I am finally beginning to feel better. Last night and today I feel more relaxed and confident than I have in a while. I am working on acceptance and on maintaining a loving and forgiving attitude. I hope you will have a good day today and not worry too much about your ex.

My two cents today, for you and for myself: From "Beyond Blame," by Jeffrey Kottler: "I now realize that the origin of most of my conflicts is lodged in this need I have for others' validation and approval. Until I am willing to face up to the responsibility that comes with being in a relationship, including telling others what I want, I know that I will continue to have problems."

What you've said about your ex's voice is bringing back memories and my own confusion. My ex loves to hear me sing and once just said out of the blue, when we were sitting on the couch and I was talking softly to him about something, "I love your voice." I hope he misses my voice like you miss your ex's.

I believe my insecurities precipitated my breakup, as well. Though I proclaimed often that my ex was not obligated to me in any way unless his heart obligated him --- because any other kind of obligation ruins a relationship ---- and that I didn't have any expectations about our future (we had only been together for 4 months), those were of course bogus statements; I was just trying to be noble. I said them because I thought his heart did obligate him to me, and I thought he had similar expectations about our future. Anyway, I think he saw right through me. I said these things because he had hurt me on Christmas Eve by suddenly noting his need to "spend time with his son," which implied he wanted me to leave. I couldn't believe it. I did leave, and I pulled back from him emotionally for a few days, and when he asked why, I told him. It was at that time that I made the above statements, and it was right after that that he stopped making any true investment in the relationship, and I finally confirmed the breakup because he just wasn't calling me for days at a time. I know it's too late to dwell on what I did or didn't do, and he says I didn't do anything, so I have to try to let it go but learn something about myself. Go slower, for instance, and hold off on the expectations. Maybe?

Well, the good thing is that he probably won't come and get the things out of storage for a while, unless something changes --- because he appears to not be in any big hurry to get his things. I suspect it is a way to keep a connection to me. So I've got a while to think about it, and in the meantime the basket is sitting there, out in the shed and out of my sight. I know I'm stubborn, and I will consider what you've said, but I don't want those things and I won't be treated as if I should be grateful and happy with what he gave me. He even said the other night, when I wouldn't take the biker coat, "So you don't even want one thing from our time together, to keep?" I was so pissed, thinking, "When you don't even want to keep me?" I didn't say that, though. Bear with me; my emotions are so overwhelming, and I feel like I have to make a complete cut with all things that will keep me reminded of this relationship, if we aren't going to be together. At this point, though, I still have a lot of hope that he is coming back --- despite the fact that I haven't heard from him in 10 days.

I actually think my ex would be more hurt rather than think it was pathetic. His ego will find it hard to handle, that I would give back some of these things --- particularly, brand new sexy lingerie that he bought me for Christmas, with the tags still attached. By giving it back, I am subtly suggesting he can give it to someone else and I don't give a damn. I wouldn't accept the very beautiful leather biker coat he bought me for Christmas, since it had to be backordered and didn't arrive until after the breakup. I told him I wanted him to give it to somebody he loves and somebody who would be riding with him --- or, if he wants to keep it, he can take me for a ride sometime and I'll wear it then.

I'm planning to give everything the ex gave me back to him. I have it all in a basket, and I'm going to leave it for him to pick up when he picks up his items from my storage shed, with a note that just says, "Take these, too, please." I don't want the things to remind me, if he's not here with me. And I guess I do want it to hurt him, which might be wrong but the first reason takes priority over the second one. I'd like to write something mean like "I don't accept gifts from strangers" or "I don't need consolation prizes."

I'm glad to hear it worked out well. The other night I saw a couple who provides music at a local club; they are always so happy together and flirting with each other, etc. It made me happy for them and sad for me, because that's the way P. and I were. But anyway, it is great to know that you two are making it, too.

"To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it." Confucius

"Love thy neighbor, even when he plays the trombone." Jewish saying

"In order to love the people in your life more deeply, you will have to do so in spite of vivid memories of times they have been unlovable. People find many ways to hurt one another. When hurt, you experience the pain, you interpret it, often dramatically, and you remember it. You cling to your memories of what they did to you, of what you did back, and of what it all means. You resent them and blame them --- and yourself."

War in a relationship keeps you from living every moment afresh, because remembering or seeing the other person triggers mechanical reactions of denial, anger, blame, depression, guilt, how-could-I, how-could-you, if-only, regret, resentment, righteousness, sadness, shame, powerlessness, and wrongness. Your conflict separates you from the other person, and by getting caught up in being right and wrong you can justify even the most destructive behavior."

"It seems impossible to love people who hurt and disappoint us. Yet there are no other kinds of people."

I'm on day 10 and it's terrible. I'm about to call up a guy I dated casually last year and see if he wants to go to the beach this weekend because I am dreading the weekend so badly. I'll have to tell him up front that I'm not interested in anything long-term, but if he'd like to get out of town for a few days, we could keep each other company. We'll see. I have to contact the ex on Tuesday because I owe him money, but I'll do it by mail with only a thank you, if I can keep it down to that.

I don't see sending a casual card as anywhere near the same as calling somebody up crying and saying I miss you, please come back, I need you, I can't live without you, etc.

I've already been in a discussion over this a few times on the forum, but I just have to say that I don't see how sending somebody a birthday card, Christmas card makes you look like a fool. It makes you look like a nice person who cares about the recipient. I can't imagine ever feeling or thinking anything negative about someone who sent me a card, for goodness sakes. If I got a card from an ex who still loved me, I wouldn't think, "What a sap. What a loser." I'd think it was sweet and think of all the other guys who were too stupid or insensitive to think of me on my special day.

I see. I wish the crying made me feel better, and maybe it does, temporarily. What I am feeling is more of a vacuum in my soul at the moment --- an incredible emptiness. I know it's about more than Paul; it's about every loss I've ever had. It's just that I felt so good about this one. We were going to make it! But it's the same old story, I know.

Kate, is that supposed to be funny? I mean, we all know I'm feeling sorry for myself -- but I am trying to find ways to think positively.

Sorry, but I don't get Lady's observation that the point of this forum is for taking advice. I don't think that's the point of this forum at all. I think the point is to have somebody to talk to about your problems, and most of us know we are acting stupid and crazy, which is exactly why we need you. But we don't need you to be insensitive. I'd agree with what's been suggested: if you don't want to read somebody's post, why not just ignore it and quit punishing and attacking people who haven't recovered as well as others?

Well, my fellow quit because of his son (who is 12 and has already tried pot) and because he knows it probably contributes to his sexual problems --- well, the pot does. The coke has the opposite effect, apparently, but there are even bigger risks legally with the coke, and he has already had to fight a reputation in this town for dealing, which he doesn't do. You know, the more I write about this fellow, the more I realize how many problems he's got, and they have little to do with me. I was the one really good thing in his life for the past four months (I wasn't perfect, but I was really good to him), and now he's dumped me for the fast life. He wanted to have sex with his old girl "friends," basically, though he didn't put it that way, I know that's it. He isn't ready to be faithful and is afraid he can't be. And that's what I don't get. How a guy with the kind of sexual problems he has doesn't want to commit to one woman who is crazy about him despite those problems and who will be faithful to him. Agghhh. I need a drug dealer.

I'm kind of interested in this whole conversation because my ex used marijuana and occasionally cocaine (apparently he has been doing this for a while, though I never asked how long). I do know that his ex-wife has called him a pothead, cokehead, and that kind of stuff --- to which he responds by referring to her regular use of pain pills. Anyway, most of my life I've been drug-free, but I've smoked pot with a few of the guys I've dated because they were into it. I did that with this guy, too. But I'm absolutely afraid of cocaine. I can't even believe that one time I did let him put a tiny bit on my tongue when we were having sex. I didn't really notice that it had much of an effect, and don't laugh because I don't know how much it takes to get an effect. Anyway, my point is that the ex decided to quit all drugs around the same time we broke up. I imagine it's hard (duh), but do you think it could screw up his emotions, change his thinking, etc? He was so tender to me before this break-up, and now he's so distant. If you've noticed my earlier threads, you'll see that he last called me at 2:56 in the morning last Monday (9 days ago), drunk and wanting to come over. We both drink, by the way, and that hasn't changed, but we're not like alcoholics or anything. I wasn't home when he called, and by the time I got the message I figured he was sleeping -- he had gone to his mom's since he couldn't get me, so I just left a note on his truck and told him to come and see me again if he wanted, but I didn't call. Okay I am totally rambling. I was just interested in the whole drug/relationship effect. And I tell you this, too --- if I could get my hands on some pot right now, you'd better believe I'd be sucking it in just to make myself feel better, cause I am pretty damn miserable.

I think if she did want to be friends, she'd call. She must be either feeling like she can't be friends yet (as in she still has feelings for you and has to work through them) or she's afraid to hurt you, or (the worst scenario --- she's too busy being "friends" with someone else). I'm afraid that's what is happening in the case of my ex.

I know how you feel; I suspect my ex likes to be chased, too. His ex-wife chases him (calls, comes by the house, cries, begs, etc.) Other girls call him even when he hasn't called them in months. I know my ex has serious insecurity issues because when we were first dating, he was extremely jealous and even toward the end he was still always asking me if he satisfied me in bed. (He has some sexual problems).

So, on one hand, I think that the worst thing I can do is do what the other women are doing. I need to be the odd woman out, here --- the one that makes him curious --- the one he actually has a chance to miss and wonder about.

On the other hand, I'm afraid he sees the chasing as proof of love for him, and if that's the case he'll think I don't love him enough ---not as much as the ex does, for example, and thereforeeee he won't be able to keep me. Damn!

I just have to keep in mind that I did make the last contact, though it was by letter. I did not call him back the last time he called me.

FYI, when we first met, he gave me his phone number and I didn't call. He called me three or four times and told me not to run away from him. I gave in --- now look where I am. Isn't it just great how they turn the tables on you? I should have run, and now it's too late --- my heart is completely over the top. I don't even care about the stupid sexual problems.

Sorry if I missed something you wrote earlier; I'm just catching up. Does she know you're going away?

I've only lived here for five months, and I don't have any close friends or family. Before that, I lived in a bigger city close by for a year while still working in this town (just driving 30 miles each day). I've been unable to get really close to anyone here, and that's why I was so happy when I met Paul and we started (I thought) to build a relationship. My life was full, and I didn't need to be with him every minute or anything. I was just so happy. Now I'm back to square one, and really miserable tonight, by the way ---but no money for drinking and I don't have anything to help me sleep but Nyquil, which I'll probably take later anyway because on top of everything else I'm having an allergy attack.

Wah wah. I've come back to my office to talk to you guys and to read from The Art and Practice of Loving, which is an uplift.

I just picked it up and turned to the page that says "Speak Positively." "Negative speaking, both out loud and inside your head, fuels crises. So replace it with positive expressions of joy or love. Even if your physical reality seems a disaster, you can force words of appreciation to drown out self-pity, fear, and anger. Replace the negative voices in your head with a positive mantra. Assert that the trouble is a gift, a new beginning, a wake-up call, a challenge, or a new opportunity to love; then live up to your assertion. " I'm finding this one hard to do. Okay, well, I can choose to see this as a challenge and as an opportunity to love Paul 100% from way over here, I guess.

Here's something else. "When you are holding fear in one hand and love in the other, choose love. In a crisis, too much seems to ride on the outcome of your choices. The intense story line in your drama makes it hard to reflect calmly about the consequences of various alternatives. Your sense of perspective is distorted, and your choices can easily reflect your anger, self-pity, or fear. Even in a most dramatic crisis, however, you can step back and examine your alternatives. Do not ask which one you would feel like choosing at the moment. You may not want to make the growth choice, the gracious choice, the forgiving choice. You may not want to take other people's feelings into account when you feel fear or pain. In crisis your feelings lose their value as guides. Instead, ask "What is the loving choice here.?" This may not settle the decision, as there are all kinds of love. But it will at least hold you on a path of loving and keep you from making choices that you will later regret, choices that add to a negative spiral."