papillon

DN, thankyou for all of your advice and pearls of wisdom. I really appreciate it.

Really?? You and your wife have worked things out without a counselor?? Do you recommend any good books?? I bought the Dr. Phil one and have been reading it. It's mostly about changing your own behavior and how that in turn ultimately has an effect (hopefully positive) on your partner. As far as how long we've been together, that's just the thing. We haven't been together long enough really. We really kind of rushed into things. But we were working with an immigration lawyer, and she was giving us a timeline, I was starting school in the fall, we both felt 100% positive about one another after having been around the block a few times (we're both 34) and neither of us saw the point in waiting. We knew each other for 5 months before getting married. I definitely didn't pressure him, if anything he was the one who was eager to get me 'off the market' so to speak. It was really quite a whirlwind romance. I've said to him too that is one of the things that is against us, is how hard the year has been, with me being in school, the immigration stuff and him not being able to work, how all of this has affected us and then just the fact that we don't have a long history together to fall back on. Had we been together for a couple of years, I think we would have done much better with our circumstances, but I have to say all of my married friends have said this past year would have been incredibly stressful for seasoned veterans let alone newlyweds. I'd like to make a point too that my parents have a great marriage, complete with affection, laughter, bickering etc...(52 years), however my husband's parents not the case; no affection (except the birth of 2 children), not a family man at all. He actually hated his father....I also think that plays a part in how he sees himself. He had said to me once before when we were arguing and he wasn't working yet, "see?? my father is right, I am a loser, I'm not working, I can't support you"...etc... I of course was telling him he was wrong, and that's not true, and don't let your father's words win over you. Another point too, his dad died when my husband was 19. They never got along. My husband's mother has attested to this. Incredibly sad actually. He doesn't really feel this has anything to do with his lousy image of himself, but I think it's totally related. His father used to say some pretty mean things to him as a kid. i.e. he was "poofy" for wanting to do gymnastics instead of rugby, he frowned upon him for not getting his uniform dirty when he did play rugby etc... you get the idea.

Thanks for all of your advice DN. I've said everything you're saying plus written emails to him as well,..how ironic. This is really personal, but just to give you an idea of how I'm communicating, I'm posting one of the emails I sent. If you're still online, please feel free to critique. I'm tough, I can take it. Anyway here it is. I just sent this today. I was responding to one he sent me telling me he understands if I need to rid my life of him:

Thankyou for that. It's good advice. I'm trying like hell.

Bingo!!! I think you've hit the nail on the head. He has said before that he felt emasculated by not working, while I was going to school and working to support us. When we talked about how we were going to do this, him moving here and our life together, we knew he wouldn't be able to work for a while because of immigration stuff. He had said over and over when he got a work authorization permit, he would do whatever he could to bring in money. i.e. work at retail, bartend, etc... So that's what I thought he would do. Well when he got his work permit in November, he didn't really want to do just anything, which I can totally understand because of his education level, but we were having some pretty hard times financially, and I was busting my hump trying to go to school full time and work as close to full time as I could. He did help around the house which was great, but he was also pretty free with spending which would really set me off. Here I was working my butt off, and he would get upset with me for being upset with him buying a watch, or a DVD, or whatever....I guess typical married stuff. My main gripe was that he really wasn't going out of his way to get any kind of job just to bring in some cash. I told him I didn't even care if it was part time. Plus it would have been great for his mental state, because he was depressed. I know the work thing is especially touchy for men, but I just don't understand when oppurtunities would present themselves, (my brother looking for help in his company, other people offering potential job connections) he just didn't want it. He would say I just wanted him to be miserable doing something he didn't want to do for the rest of his life. My point was he could be busy doing something, anything (I even suggested volunteering) until he got the job offer he REALLY wanted. He's very sensitive and yes I'm sure I came accross as a real b----, but I totally take full responsiblity for all of my shortcomings, and I've told him this. When we would argue or fight in the past, the first thing he would do was to physically leave, or say I can't stay here anymore with you, and then just go off for hours. Then when he would come back, it was like nothing happened. I've always made it a point to apologize for my wrongdoings, but he's never been one to actually say he was sorry or admit he was wrong. That's why I nearly fell over when he wrote to me actually apologizing for writing those emails. When this all initally went down, he showed no signs of remorse or of being in the wrong. Am I making sense?? or am I just rambling??

Wow, so many questions...Ok, well his education far exceeds mine. He's incredibly brilliant. Forensic archaeology is what he's trained in. Edinburgh University and some other university that's supposed to be really prestigious. He has a couple degrees. His other degree has to do with geology. He wasn't working when he came over here and hadn't been for a few years. He had been in Australia studying law actually right before we met....I know this is confusing....he went over there to be with a girl who broke up with him right before boarding his flight I guess, but he decided to just go and make the best of it. He was in Australia for 2 years, met another girl (she's not the one he's been writing to) who turned out to be extremely mentally unstable (i.e. tried committing suicide 3 times), he felt like he had to help her even after they broke up after 6 months, and they remained friends in his mind (not in hers, she wanted more) for the rest of those 2 years. Sorry, I'm getting off the subject...just trying to give you some background. Anyway, he came back to the UK, and then we met....(surprise)..ONLINE.....He wasn't working and wasn't feeling hopeful about finding work, and I was so the logical thing to do we both agreed was for him to come here if we wanted to be together. I don't doubt his motives for cominig here. He had a few friends back home, but most of his friends are in different parts of the UK (Ireland), Sweden, etc...He has a small family, ...mom and sister who are super people. He didn't think he was going to get a job here, and was feeling really hopeless, (he even bought a plane ticket home one night without us even talking about it....??!!) But the job he has now he says he would never have been able to get in the UK withouth at least 5-10 years experience. (He's a geophysicist) It's a great job, and he loves that he has a paycheck coming in, because he says he's never really had regular money coming in. Hard to believe I know, but his dad died when he was 19 and the money left to he and his sister was invested in real estate and I guess he's just been using that money. As an archaeologist, he says he just got paid in cash (not a check...weird huh???), and it was peanuts. He doesn't really have any friends over here, besides the people at work. I have a huge family and they all love him. You couldn't ask for a better family to marry into if you're relocating, I mean they've all embraced him with open arms. He's gone out a few times with my best friend's husband, but really doesn't make an effort to get together with him. He's kind of a solitary person. You would never know it though in a social setting. It's very strange. And he HATES social things. He says he just pours with sweat, but he fools everyone, because he always looks as cool as a cucumber, total politician working the room etc... you get the idea. As far as his interests, yeah I'd say he has interests separate from mine. It's hard to say, because money's been tight, so it's not like we can just get up and go away for the weekend. But he loves going to the movies, which I could give or take, and he doesn't mind going by himself once in a while. He loves reading which I don't really, or at least not like he does. He's a voracious reader. As far as our educations are compared his is definitely better. As I've said I went back to school, and I thought of quitting because I felt like it was stressing us out, but I waited 2 years to get into this program, and it will only benefit us in the end...i.e. I'll be making a great salary. AND I only have 9 months left in this hideous program. Ok, there you go,....hope it isn't too much for you.

..Oh yes, that's right, he wants to keep in touch with at least one of these women ...the main one, because they've been friends for so long....? He says he emailed her and told her what happened and she felt absolutely horrible and she'll be sure not to write anything like that in the future.... oh really?? And I'm just supposed to say..."well, ok then, I guess that's ok, as long as you both promise". He's really an incredibly sensitive, compassionate, and intelligent person, but sometimes, you'd swear he has no brain....I mean what was he thinking telling me that???

.....I'm supposed to be studying for a final right now, and my mind is just a million miles away.....I just can't focus....school just seems so insignificant right now....I hate this.... I should have joined the convent.....[kidding]

I understand in a weird way why he was doing it, even though it breaks my heart. He says he would write to these women if we had a fight because he felt alone and depressed and it would make him feel good. He called it an ego boost. Plus our sex life has been nonexistant since December not because I haven't wanted to be intimate, on the contrary I've tried to initiate it but he didn't want any part of it. I just thought maybe he was depressed not working and all, and that's what he told me it was. Then when he started working in May, he became a different person, feeling much better about himself, but still didn't want to have sex because he just didn't feel right, that he felt self-conscious and that he wasn't even sure what the problem was. We've only been married a year, and he was definitely a sexual person when we were first together, I never would have guessed in a million years he of all people would have trouble with sex. He says he needed to talk to these women to feel like a sexual person, but I don't understand because I'm always the one telling him how sexy he is, how handsome I think he is, how cute, smart....etc.... I mean yes we definitely have our share of fights and then some, but we always seem to work it out or so I thought. It just doesn't make sense to me. He had said he would go to counseling together, but won't now because he says he won't be able to afford it because of the apartment. (even though I've offered to pay!!! how twisted is that!!!....Am I pathetic or what???) He also isn't convinced counseling will help, which I don't know if it will either, but I sure as hell want to try.....not sure why all of my writing isn't all purple....????

No they haven't been physically together, I think she's in Brazil but please spare me saying it's not really infidelity if there was no physical contact. And yes he was replying in the same sort of way. As far as this goes: ....I was trying to describe the situation briefly. But yes now you have the details. I didn't realize that would matter so much when I first wrote. And I do understand what you're saying about the apartment, it's just that a lot of our stress in our relationship has been about money. He's incredibly in debt, which really translates into our debt, but I don't have a problem helping to get rid of it. I want to do all I can, because that's what couples do, or so I thought anyway. They help each other out. We've always disagreed on the effect either of our financial standing has on the relationship. If we go to buy a house, the bank will look at our finances collectively , not separately. AAaaagh, I'm getting away from the issue here. I was just trying to make a point. I see what you're saying about money and the apartment being a secondary issue, I was just saying with all of his debt I just feel like he's getting even deeper now, and it just doesn't have to be like that. Maybe I'm not making sense. It doesn't really matter because we've been talking and trying to make sense of all of this and he says he loves me and wants to make it work but he's still planning on communicating with her/them. Yes there was more than one, but SHE was the biggie. I don't know what to think anymore.

It's so hard to get the whole story down on paper. I didn't "kick" him out. When I first confronted him about these sexually charged emails, he said "it's not what you think" and then he got angry saying I was overreacting. Well for the men out there, if your wife was getting emails from a guy saying he wanted to "give her kisses up her beautiful neck" and "I miss you babe" and she was writing him emails saying she was "writing his name in her panties", and then told you it was nothing......I think you'd have a problem with that. The fact that he wasn't acknowledging his wrong-doings and wasn't remorseful and saying I was overreacting made me feel like it was definitely over. I couldn't make him stay if he wanted to, because he said he couldn't stay. So it's not as clean cut as me kicking him out. I thought he would have tried contacting me within a day, and when he hadn't I decided to change the locks. After I sent him an email at work telling him I was going to pack up his stuff because he obviously didn't want to reconcile, then he wrote back to me saying what he had done was wrong, how sorry he was and he'd have been horrified had I done the same thing, and that he wanted to work things out. I asked him to come home and that's when he said he put a deposit down on an apartment. So that's why I'm confused. Anyway, I'm rambling, just felt like I needed to add that.

Hi all, Just desperately need advice on physically staying together or being apart. My husband and I have been having a tough time, and recently I found emails from an ex-girlfriend he has been keeping in touch with (and they're not emails you write to a married man), as well as some other women. When I confronted him about it, we of course got into a huge fight and I told him to get out of the house, I changed the lock etc.... He has since apoligized and realizes it was wrong on his part, and wants to work at things. I've asked him to come home and that if we are going to work on this then we should be together, but he has already put a deposit down on a 1 bedroom expensive apartment. He'll move in on Saturday, and right now has been in a hotel for a week. I just think this is a huge step for him to be taking, and if we are trying to work things out, I just feel him getting an apartment and having to furnish it and pay utilities etc... is just going to put us even further behind the eight ball financially. What I don't understand is he keeps saying he loves me and really wants to work on things, but really needs to get this apartment because he needs to know he can't be kicked out of his house, and would eventually like to see me move in with him. I can partly understand his rationale because he's from the UK and has only been here since May of 2004 (we've been married a little over a year) and we've been living in the condo I bought 5 years ago. He says that he feels like it's never been his home. But my answer to that is, when I'm done with school in 8 months, I'll be making more money, and we can look for a house together then. But that doesn't seem to be enough for him. He keeps calling me begging me to be understanding about him needing to get this apartment, but I just don't think he's acting like someone who wants to stay married, even though he says that's what he wants more than anything. Also, he finally agreed to do couples counseling, but doesn't want to right now because he's just too stressed with all that's gone on and needs to settle in his apartment first. Am I crazy here??? Does anyone understand what he's saying?? Should I stand my ground?? Am I being unreasonable by telling him that if we are to work on things, then we should be in the same house??? Please!!! Any insight from anyone would be greatly appreciated. I'm desperately trying to understand all of this. I feel like I'm going insane!!! Thanks in advance to anyone who replies. Papillon