Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Hello all you silver bears, bulls, barons, baronesses, stackers, hoarders and just plain gutter pirates! About this time last year I bought silver and no matter how you slice it I made 50% on my investment. (Well, it started out as a hedge...) Gold did very well too, both metals performed very well this year. Okay, I made a good investment... But you know, it has been a fun hobby too. This thread is for topical discussion about precious metals. (PMs) This thread is in no way meant for financial advice! So do your own due diligence. (DYODD.) And remember every investment has it's risks! I did pretty well in silver last year, that doesn't mean you will this year, in fact I would recommend not buying silver. The largest private precious metals dealer is APMEX American Precious Metals Exchange. (And please, I am not affiliated with any of these dealers.) link removed The "big A".^ They have always been good to me, again I do not work for Apmex. The largest private precious metals dealer in Canada is Kitco... link removed Okay, there are precious metals. (Bullion, near pure silver and gold (and others) are reffered to as "bullion" or "generic". And yet there are coins and numismatics. A little different animal than generic bullion. It's kind of complicated, so as we go through this thread I'll try and explain some of this stuff. Weather you're into PMs or not it's kind of interesting. Thx (The silver boo boo. Link to comment
Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Here is the Perth mint folks... link removed And the Royal Canadian mint... link removed These are huge, reputable mints folks, and I have bought from each. You know... it's really kind of a slugging match between Canada and Australia for who has the most beautiful coins. (They are both outstanding and for my money, coin for coin the US mint cannot compare.) We'll get in to numismatics (coin collecting) in awhile. What differentiates a coin from generic bullion? Well, basically a coin is issued by a government, has a date and has a face value (usually way under the spot price, and for good reason.) For instance... The Silver American Eagle (SAE) is selling now for $20.64.. with the spot price of silver @ $17.70 and a face value of $1 The difference between what they charge and the spot price is referred to as the "premium". (That's right, nothing is for free.) "Coins" carry and hold a higher premium, "generic" normally goes for spot and no more when you sell it. "So what do you buy when Thx?" Everyone has their own formula... Mine... when spot is low I buy generic at the lowest premium I can find. (Usually about a dollar an ounce over spot or less.) When spot is high, I tend more towards coins... premium items. Think of the extra premium on a coin as built-in insurance... If the spot price tumbles, the premium on the coin will offer some padding... If spot rises it will take the coin with it. Now, we're not talking about rare coins here (Hard numismatics. Old coins) These "bullion" coins have a modest premium over spot. Some old coins are worth many times spot, so let's make the distinction between "bullion coins" and hard numismatics like old Morgan dollars. Thx Link to comment
OntheWire Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 A lot of people buying metals these days due to fear of economic collapse. I don't see much point, though. If things really get so bad that paper money becomes worthless, then I think the only things people will be interested in are shelter, food, and water. They'll find metal isn't worth anything either...unless it's steel and in the shape of a useful tool. Link to comment
Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 A lot of people buying metals these days due to fear of economic collapse. I don't see much point, though. If things really get so bad that paper money becomes worthless, then I think the only things people will be interested in are shelter, food, and water. They'll find metal isn't worth anything either...unless it's steel and in the shape of a useful tool. Yeah, that's a great point, many of the "doom sayers" are paranoid there. Food, PMs and lead. Any minute now, the world is going to explode... I don't play into that. As you point out, bread might start selling at $10 a loaf... Where will your silver get you there? No where. No guy, I didn't get into silver because I thought the economy would collapse. As some say, lol, I just like the shiney. If one is going to make an investment because the world is going to collapse they probably are investing too late. Check out this Zimbabwe dollar... image removed It's up to $100 trillion now... Blokes here buy them as a novelty and point to Zimbabwe's collapse as each citizen must now pan a half ounce of gold each day for subsistance. This thread was not to sow the seeds of economic paranoia... I kind of thought I made that clear... Thx Link to comment
OntheWire Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I love sowing seeds. I had an idea of buying a bulk pallet of Swiss Army Knives and then trading them for food and water when the economy collapses. Link to comment
Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Silver is not performing as we would prefer for the last 6 months. (What does?) Gold is the one to buy now, it's at a small dip and for gold that's fluctuating. You see, that's what traders liked last year, silver's volatility. Gold is the stable one, silver is volatile (traditionally) Can't go wrong with gold. Thx Link to comment
Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 I love sowing seeds. I had an idea of buying a bulk pallet of Swiss Army Knives and then trading them for food and water when the economy collapses. Okay, you think the world is going to collapse and I don't... Thx Link to comment
Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 A note on Chinese Pandas... The Chinese Panda is a beautiful coin and usually commands a high premium. (And gets it back too and then some.) But... Unfortunately there is a rash of fakes coming out of China... The best thing to do... is buy from a large, reputable dealer. These folks know what they're doing and have exclusive sources... (Like the mint.) Be wary of coins on e-bay that just seem too good to be true. (Avoid them like the plague! The Chinese fake not only Pandas, but also key date Morgan dollars... link removed Be careful folks. Thx Link to comment
OntheWire Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Nah, I don't really think the world is gonna collapse...although it might. What do I know? I'm just an asshat on an internet forum. I've read that gold is not really an ethical investment because it's not good for anything. Silver and platinum actually have valuable industrial uses. So if I were going to invest, I'd probably go with the latter. Link to comment
Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Nah, I don't really think the world is gonna collapse...although it might. What do I know? I'm just an asshat on an internet forum. I've read that gold is not really an ethical investment because it's not good for anything. Silver and platinum actually have valuable industrial uses. So if I were going to invest, I'd probably go with the latter. Yeah, gold has almost no industrial use, jewelry if we want to consider that an industry. The next highest use is gold plating on critical app. electrical connectors. Gold plating is just barely worth recycling. Silver on the other hand has many industrial uses. PC boards are made with silver now instead of copper like years ago. Silver has the best thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity. Silver also has growing interest in the bio-medical field as an anti-bacterial agent. Almost none of the industrial silver is recycled, most of the silver ever mined is sitting in landfills, it's just not worth enough to recycle. There is a lot of speculation on platinum as it is used in catalytic converters and some folks feel when China's economy booms there will be great demand for platinum in Chinese cars. Others say the Chinese will use less expensive palladium instead. Oh, a correction, the people of Zimbabwe must pan a half gram of gold each day, not a half ounce lol. For many years while used as currency silver and gold were terrible investments. In fact, you really couldn't call it an "investment" at that time. (Bullion, not old coins.) I guess colloidal silver is worth mentioning, but beware, it can turn you blue! Thx Link to comment
Thx Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Silver is considered the "poor man's gold". You don't need $10,000 and a broker to get started, you can get into it for as little as $20. For the last few years both metals have left more conventional investments like money market funds in the dust. Gold better than 50% for '09', silver up 78% from low to high. A common strategy for purchasing is to look at the 200 day average and try and purchase near a 200 day low. People get in trouble when they buy at a peak thinking it will go "to da' moon". The most notable was the Hunt Bros. manipulation in 1980. The Hunts were oil barons who tried to corner the market on silver and drove the price up artificially to $50. The government stepped in and only a few days later the price returned to normal. I know a few people who bought in then and have been waiting 30 years just to break even and that doesn't look promising anytime soon, so never buy silver at peaks thinking it will go higher. Thx Link to comment
AuthenticAuthor Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 The only "doom sayers" that get it right refer to the doom of the U.S. dollar, hence the speculation into silver and gold, for their obvious monetary and non-monetary uses (durable, relatively precious, usefulness, etc). Going the way of the German Mark is very possible in our lifetime given the amazing inflation we've had in the past few years. Of course, money could be anything can't it. Few things are 100% certain. Yet I'd still place my bet on gold for the long-term haul. Link to comment
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