LotusBlack

1 hour ago, graphicdesigner said:

It’s not the same at all. It means we are BOTH exclusive to each other now, not just him but me too. I canceled my Match sub and put my Facebook dating profile on “taking a break.” I won’t be going out on dates like I was before. He wasn’t before anyway, so it affects me now, not just him. 

I’m sorry to say, graphic, but this doesn’t make sense, at all. He was never the one who sought out your attention or commitment and had no problem with things the way they were. He wasn’t the one who had any issue with anything or was upset about lack of interaction. He didn’t need you to change. You were the one who was unhappy with the dynamic and what your involvement represented. You were the one who wanted more from him, so why is it that you are the one adjusting your behaviour? 

You have essentially said, ‘I don’t like that you are not committed to me or that you don’t love me. I don’t like that you don’t compliment me when you so easily compliment other women you find attractive. I think this situation is unfair and toxic towards me. So here, let me cut off all my own romantic opportunities, limit my options, give even more of myself to you, and let this new set of boundaries affect me now even though the only person in this pairing who anyone wanted anything from was you, but I was the only one giving anything in the first place.’

You were the only one who wanted more and was unhappy with how things were. So, to the person who gave nothing, you have now agreed …to give more. And where is he? Still giving nothing.

I do regret to sound so harsh, but it is so very clear that you want something from someone who doesn’t have anything to give. And your total attachment to someone you have known for such a short period of time is quite concerning, especially because you are willfully ignoring the plethora of red flags. The flags are so large they are the size of sails on a ship. I’m not sure why you are so determined to go down with the boat and sacrifice yourself for someone you’ve know for such a short time and who has never earned your dedication and loyalty.

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes - early on especially it's so important to be able to read the room so to speak and even if you think something way off color will be funny better to be cautious if you don't know the person well yet. Although a friend of mine made a boo boo at work years ago- he spent the day in a conference room going through reams of paperwork with a woman from another company who was there for the same reason.  To pass the time they spoke of old commercials and old TV shows.  He had -zero interest in her -and wasn't attempting to be flirtatious. They were in their 20s and single- similar ages.

At the end of the day she said something like nice to meet you and maybe suggested they keep in touch professionally -back then you simply exchanged business cards.  So he told me he said -referencing a particular old commercial they'd referenced multiple times "ok but remember you have to pick up the phone and call!!!" He said she got this kind of weird look and said "oh. I feel really uncomfortable now." So he referenced the commercial.  Nope- didn't work.  They parted and  that was it and he felt -awful!  

Oh dear! It happens to the best of us where our brains just don’t register any other perspective than the one we have regarding what we are about to say. I’ve put my foot in it a fair few times. 😅

1 hour ago, MrMan1983 said:

J-heeeesus, talk about 0-100 🤢 

Right! It was pretty gross. Even had I fancied myself completely in love with someone who then said that, I’d have gotten over my feeling pretty quickly.

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Totally.  And for sure some women would welcome the vulgarity -maybe would be a turn on.  I'd have been shocked and repulsed too - disgusting.  I think he wanted to test the waters too so to speak.

 

I agree; likely wanted to test the waters.

13 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I agree with this^.  However I will also say that what one person considers sexual vulgarity, another may not.  That is NOT to take away from your experience with this um "person" or downplay it, only that it's subjective.

I respectfully disagree that what one considers vulgar is a subjective thing. There is a universally accepted number of terms that when used in particular contexts are understood to be vulgar no matter how you slice it; however, the thing that is subjective, is how you feel about it. Some people appreciate the vulgarity and welcome it, therefore it lacks the offensive nature that vulgarity often comes with. Others don’t appreciate it, so it is taken with offence. Vulgar is vulgar irregardless of whether it is enjoyed as playful or sexual banter or not.

But yes, good riddance! 

10 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Yoo... 😤

How long were seeing him until that happened? 

Only a few weeks and we had not seen each other in person since the airport or spoken on the phone. Just texted. At that point, I did not consider us involved in any way due to the limited time we’d known each other and logistical limitations. We had a very newly developing interest and we’re just talking at that time.

This was about 10 years ago.

5 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I was wondering same. 

Speaking generally, I think it can sometimes be difficult for others to decipher what a particular comment meant/means when they were not there, not privy to the context in which the comment was made, the person's voice tone, body language, the couple's dynamic etc. 

The same comment might be meant and interpreted in different ways depending on all this and also how sensitive the recipient is to different types of banter and their and their partner's or date's sense of humor. 

IOW, what's offensive to one woman (or man if roles were reversed) may be funny/playful to another.  Depending. 

The comment re "impaling" taken literally is extremely offensive!  It literally means "pierce or transfixed with a sharp instrument."  And if he said it in anger or frustration, I'd run for hills, FAST.

But it's also possible he said it in jest, as a joke, a really stupid joke HE thought was funny.  He may have a warped sense of humor and/or lacks social skills.

I've known guys like that and have had the same type "jokes" tossed at me!

I rarely found them "funny" but depending on how I felt about him and if things were good up till that point, and the circumstances re why he said it, I might have chalked it up to a "one off." 

If it kept happening, I'd address it.

Everyone responds differently.  There is no right way or wrong way to respond imo.  Only what's right for that person. 

The comment "we could have fun together," on its own to ME sounds like an innocent comment.

However, I was not there, don't the context or if there was a clear sexual component attached to it, which would make a BIG difference.

Also, this is just me and not referring to anyone specifically, but IF I was looking for an out for whatever reason, I might read more into it than what was intended and use as a reason to dump. 

JMO.

 

 

 

His house - according to his description - had one of those wrought iron fences around it with the pointed tips. So, while my comment to him was said playfully in tone, the sentiment behind it was genuine due to its proximity to the house. The word alone is quite an intense word, so I added a light note to it through a bit of teasing.

His response implying to use his pen*s to impale me - I.e. sex - was inappropriate  due to his having established our connection/acquaintance as being potentially romantic in nature, not merely sexual and he did so deliberately to misdirect me until such time as he thought I’d accept just a physical tryst. He completely intentionally misrepresented his agenda. Not cool.

I had only known him a few weeks and had not seen him in person or had a voice chat since the day I’d met him at the airport - only texting. We didn’t have the familiarity built up at that point for him to make such a comment and it to be received well, particularly because he’d spent so much time beforehand presenting himself and his intentions in a different way.

My own preference, in general, is to not pursue relationships with anyone who speaks with such sexual vulgarity. I find it very unsexy and unappealing. Even when I read a book that happens to have an intimate scene in it and uses vulgar terminology like c*ck is an instant bleh to me. I either stop reading the book because the writing style isn’t for me or, if the plot is very good, I automatically switch the terms in my head to something I prefer while reading.

Part of my distaste for sexual vulgarity, particularly from people I don’t know or know very little, is that I strongly identify as demisexual, so it takes a lot of time to build up sexual and romantic attraction to someone as I need to have first developed an emotional connection - hard to do with a stranger.

He hadn’t been joking, he was perfectly serious with his intention. Although he did not mean to have violent sex, his choice of words was graphic and unwelcome as it made me feel like a piece of meat.

In any case, each to their own - he enjoys vulgar banter, I do not, so we  were incompatible and that will be the case with any man in the future if he enjoys the same kind of banter. Nothing wrong with vulgar banter if both people enjoy it. For me, it comes down to incompatibility.

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

Wow. That took my breath away. That's not even sexy, it's threatening.

We can't be too careful;. Someone who seems perfectly kind and charming could turn on a dime and be a user, a batterer, or worse, a raging serial killer.

I'm so sorry you went through that. Really, LB.

I’m not that comfortable with sexual flirting in general - unless in the context of a relationship where it is more covert than overt, but I absolutely loathe vulgarity in any situation, even within a relationship. I just find it really off-putting. What this guy said was particularly vulgar and I was just like yeah nah, not for me.

18 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Yeah, I think the "oh we would have so much fun on our next date, laughing and then kissing under the stars" type of romantic banter is nice. But when it starts getting too sexually suggestive or self-centered, that's when I think it crosses the line.

In your example, his response definitely crosses the line. It's not only objectifying, but it also shows that he's not interested in anything beyond physical pleasure.

 

Yeah, I didn’t receive it well at all. Next! 🤣

On 5/25/2024 at 8:11 AM, yogacat said:

Where do you draw the line on playful banter or flirting whether in person or over messages?

The obvious ones are unsolicited photos, overly sexual comments, and repeated and persistent playful banter or flirtation.

Say you're sort of intrigued. But then they say something that make you think, "okay, too much?"

For instance, if you're in the early stages of talking to someone before a date and they're already making hints or innuendos I find it presumptuous. I'm not talking about "hey, I want to bend you over and spank you" type of comments, I mean little suggestive comments that hint toward sex or physical attraction. 

 

I once had a crazy situation that I thought started out really well.

I was at the airport waiting about 6 hours for my flight. I looked dreadful as I’d come directly from being in the (archaeology) field where I’d gotten dirty from excavating. 

While waiting at my gate, a couple of fifo (fly in fly out) construction boys were there waiting for their flight - which would be before mine - from the same gate. One of the guys and I struck up a great conversation for 2 hours. He was so interested in my work, etc. he was very attractive and I was surprised he was interested in talking to someone who looked as grubby and gross as me at that time.

Anyways, his plane eventually came and they had to board. I immediately went back to my research and thought nothing more of it. About 10 minutes later there was a huge kerfuffle at the boarding area and I looked up to see this guy running out of the gate with security behind him and his friend too, all yelling at him to come back. He came right up to me and asked for my number and said he’d regret it if we never saw each other again. I looked back and forth between him and security who were angry about him holding the plane up and if he didn’t leave with them now then they would leave without him. 

I thought it was really romantic. So, we started talking regularly and banter was good. Then one day we were talking while he was working on his house. He was up on the roof and I playfully said he should be careful lest he fall off and impale himself on the fence. His response was “That would be bad. But, much better would be me impaling you.” Gave me the instant ick, like a bucket of cold water dumped on my slowly-growing interest and I felt gross. I called him out on it and said the comment made me very uncomfortable. He then said he wasn’t into relationships but hoped for sex. I was surprised someone would go to all that effort for some sex. And he was attractive enough I’m sure he could have gotten some easily without all this groundwork.

I severed contact pretty quickly after that as everything became a sleazy comment.

4 hours ago, graphicdesigner said:

.No, he's not still romantically involved with his wife. Not for 10 years. She has her boyfriend, and he does, well whatever. He says he rarely sees her, and when they do see each other, it's mainly for their son and they never get along. As I've said, they are literally separated, not legally, but separated.

If that’s the case, why do you think about it every day and feel guilty? If he dislikes her so much, why, after 10 years, are they still married or, at the very least, not legally separated? Not saying you’re being dishonest, but something isn’t adding up about what he’s telling you.

1 hour ago, graphicdesigner said:

Thank you, I do appreciate your kind sentiments. I do hope to see him this Wednesday, but not sure yet. He's still not back from Montana with his son, but I'm gonna see if he can come over on Wednesday when he gets off work. 

If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. I have no idea how he'll react honestly, but I have a feeling that he'll just say no, that's not what he wants and that's it. End of story. 

I'll keep you all posted.

But are you going to keep the bargaining going should he say ‘no’ to a relationship with you? Will you return to the current status quo of random hook-ups as you react out of the absolute fear of never seeing or being with him again, despite the nature of your interactions not being what you want? That is the real question. 

You are not friends with benefits because you want something more and I suspect he will not want to give more. And, by your own admission, he has never solicited sex from you or pursued you in any way, he simply doesn’t turn down sex with you when offered. At what point are you going to recognise that what you require from him (commitment) is a dealbreaker and then actually “break” the deal instead of changing the goal post so as not to lose him? This path doesn’t lead to happiness.

You’re wasting your life on someone who doesn’t really care if you’re in his or not. He’d just as soon have you in it as he’d have you not - it doesn’t really bother him one way or another, as, if his non-committal lifestyle is so paramount to him that he is willing to end  a relationship with someone he loves, imagine how unbothered he will be to accept things being over with someone he doesn’t love, because he isn’t going to change for you.

You deserve to be someone’s person again.

6 hours ago, graphicdesigner said:

I'm so sorry for what you went through. I can't imagine, especially with an infant. I assume you're out of that situation now? I surely hope so. My God, your situation compared to mine seems so ridiculous. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. I know it must have been difficult.

It was at the time, but I eventually packed up my baby and flew across the world and started again. My point is not for anyone to feel badly for me but to say that people often settle for situations that are not good for them because they are afraid of something they perceive to be worse than what they’re in happening to them should they leave the situation. 

What you are doing is not [in your subconscious mind] a friends with benefits situation. You are biding time in a toxic situationship and hoping that he will eventually want what you want if you stay the course long enough, even if it is to the detriment of yourself. Case in point by the very fact that you were upset enough that some of your dissatisfaction leaked out of the tight hold you have on yourself and compelled you to seek advice on the situation. Every single person in your world has told you this is not good for you, including the licensed, experienced psychologist. And yet, you gravitate to that which is bad for you as you try to bargain your way into a commitment this man doesn’t want. That is where you and I were the same. And the more history you create with him that is based on this dynamic, the further and further away you get from ever being the woman he chooses for his life (he already has one of those anyway - his wife). 

I’m sorry to say, that this relationship cannot, in my opinion, transform into a genuine, loving relationship because the dynamic has already been established and allowed to develop poorly for so long. You and he cannot unlearn the dynamic you and he created with each other.

I’d cut my losses and end things so you can heal and be open to finding a real and loving relationship with someone who is emotionally (and legally) available and wants what you want. 

7 hours ago, graphicdesigner said:

Yes, it does/did bother me that he doesn't compliment me outside of saying he's "sexually attracted" to me. I guess that's something, right? I even talk to my best friend about this, who is a guy, and he said that compliments for a FWB should never happen—that's something you save for a relationship. Went to a movie tonight with my girlfriend and she agrees. That he's probably not complimenting me because he's keeping a distance with the FWB and not a relationship. Makes sense, I guess.

 

He has never told me that he wants to have sex with another woman—never! He told me that he thought a particular woman was sexy, a 24 year old woman. And that a woman he slept with years ago was beautiful. That's all he's ever said. He doesn't go around telling me he wants to have sex with anyone else or anything like that. This has all been blown out of proportion, and maybe that's my fault because apparently I wasn't very clear. 

Yes, we do have an arrangement that we are not to sleep with anybody else. If I do, or he does, then we will tell each other and it will stop. Neither of us believes in having sex with multiple partners at the same time, so in a weird way, this FWB is exclusive sexually. He knows I go on dates with other men, and he is OK with that. But I haven't slept with anyone else other than him—he is still the first and only man that I have slept with since my husband died, and I've only kissed one other man other than him, and we didn't end up going out again because we live 2 hours from each other. So it never got further than that.

There, I hope that clears this up.

 

Can I be frank, OP, I don’t think anything has been blown out of proportion at all. I think you are deeply unhappy with the status [quo] of your situationship and it has propelled you to seek out guidance, reassurance, and comfort from others, which is completely understandable.

You are so desperate to resolve the situation due to how unfulfilled it makes you feel, but when that guidance is given to you, reality sets in and you panic. You panic because you feel like you’ve finally found yourself - after years of grief from the loss of your life partner - in something reliable despite the instability of it. As hurtful as it is and leaves you feeling bereft, it is still there in some form, which, to your broken heart, is better than there being nothing there at all.

I know how it feels to be in such a state. My ex-husband was so damaging to me with his quietly calm but cruel words that it would drive me away so violently - the urge to feel released from the pain was so overwhelming I’d just want to scream at the injustice of it all, and sometimes I did. I hated my situation. But, in the next breath, I’d feel a crippling panic set in because if I didn’t belong with him, where did I belong? I would be alone again, just as I had always been, but this time with an infant. I didn’t want a broken family and just wished each day that if he just treated me with love, kindness, and respect - as I did him - then we could be happy and I wouldn’t be in this position, a position my own values and morals raged against with such indignation as to spur me on to call out his wrongdoings. And he would look at me with such indifference because I really didn’t matter in his life. And that made me panic even more. To not matter at all and end up empty handed when I had wanted so much and hoped for so much was often more than I could bare. And so, like this, the cycle would continue - I’d hate my situation but panic when the chance to change it was within reach.

But, no matter how much you want something, if it involves another person, then they need to want it too. Anything short of equal interest leads to the only inevitable outcome, a seperate one. Our situations were/are vastly different, but the desire to have something happy and fulfilling, and the fear of it changing to nothing at all, is very much the same.

Nothing has been blown out of proportion. This thread went in this direction because you were abiding by your own sense of integrity, justice, and morality. But when things got too close to potential change, panic set in and you gaslit yourself and justified this man’s behaviours to the point that you are now willing to accept what you intrinsically don’t want just so you can remain reliably unstable in your relations. Because, hey, something is better than nothing, even if that nothing is toxic sh*t.

9 hours ago, graphicdesigner said:

I honestly don't know. I received some texts from him yesterday and they made me feel good, I guess. You have to understand, he's the first/only man that I've had sex with since my husband (after being celibate for 7 years), so I guess my feelings are a bit misguided right now. Believe me, I go back and forth on this daily. Especially after a therapy session. It's confusing to me, as well.

I have a question and it may have already come up in the thread, but I haven’t read all the posts yet, so, sorry if I am doubling up.

If your late husband (so sorry for your loss) were to see the man you’d chosen for yourself now, do you think he’d approve of the way you’ve been treated? Do you think he’d want this particular man for you? Or do you think he’d be disgusted with such a person who speaks of women the way this man does and the fact that he’s married and hasn’t pursued a legal separation or divorce? 

I think he’d tell you that you deserve better and that you’re settling. I think you know you are too. Allow yourself to grieve your husband completely and start healing before you embark on finding someone else who is truly as worthy of your time and love as your dear late husband was. 

On 5/21/2024 at 7:41 AM, graphicdesigner said:

I feel really hurt and jealous and I don't know what to do.

Stop seeing him and sever contact.

On 4/26/2024 at 12:07 AM, Batya33 said:

I’d rephrase. She has chosen to react to her feelings by meeting with her ex to comparison shop and by sharing with you that her way of taking her emotional temperature is to compare the strength of her feelings for you to those she felt in the past for her  ex. So please know even if you win “the prize” you’ll need a really strong stomach each time she seems distant or you wonder hmmmm do I still measure up ?? Anyone who makes it this sort of competition and is tacky enough to share it with her partner likely is a poor choice for any sort of long term partner.  Doubts weren’t “created” - she is acting on her feeling for her ex by telling you she’s gonna test them out by meeting with him. So like if an attractive woman caught your eye and you felt a strong spark it’s ok to tell her that and tell her you know what you need to meet that lady for coffee to see if you feel as strong a spark for your partner but you know it’s ok because you know you feel chemistry with your partner but now that you see some other green grass you’re just gonna check if it’s greener. You’ll let her know the results and she should hang out and wait to see if she makes the grade. 

All of this. ☝🏼

You and her are not a couple but just dating and have the intention to keep it casual. In addition, she is leaving shortly. Despite the fact you don’t like to multi-date, you are not exclusive and she has no right to be upset with you and expect you to behave as an exclusive boyfriend would. Furthermore, she is able to date other women if she wishes to, so it is a double standard.

I think the woman you are dating is emotionally immature and short-sighted. I would move on from her because even though you said you are both mature enough not to cause professional issues due to your romantic involvement, she is already doing so. You are trying to assist your new colleague and the woman you are dating is taking issue. I would strongly advise you to stop involving yourself with her immediately because she clearly WILL make issues at work if you progress further in your involvement, because she already is.

On 5/11/2024 at 10:11 PM, Sindy_0311 said:

Absolutely not. I told him that i couldn’t deal with this kind of behavior and wanted to leave it at that and asked him to go. Not planning to see him again. I was just wondering whether I was to strict as one of my friends suggested and it made me second guess for a while. Also wanted to know whether you had similar experiences as I never experienced that before. 

 

Completely 

I don’t really think it is important whether others - or even yourself - think it’s too strict. It’s irrelevant, really, because it makes you uncomfortable. 

There are some things that people do earnestly need to practice being more tolerant about and learning to be a bit more flexible on, but this type of habit is not one of those things. Rather than you developing the skill to not be offended or put off by a partner who leers at women, the expectation should be on the partner to develop the skill not to do it.

As others have said, there is a rather significant difference between objectively recognising that someone is aesthetically pleasing while having a cursory glance as you/they walk by because they happen to be in your line of vision, and blatantly undressing someone with your eyes - even if only for a second or two. The former is casually recognising someone’s attractiveness and the latter is actively objectifying them in a sexual, almost predatory way. I strongly believe that it is quite easy to see the difference in someone’s eyes/expression, even if they look for but a moment. It is that that puts you off, not the length of time they looked.

Regardless, if it puts you off, it is irrelevant whether it is considered too strict or not.

P.S. I once had a boyfriend that I had been dating for a couple of months when we went to a social get-together one night. A girlfriend of mine was there and quite the stunner. My boyfriend had met her a number of times before, but she was dressed up for the occasion. It was for a only a moment, but when he saw her outfit, he looked her up and down appreciatively right in front of me and it induced a visceral reaction in me that was a combination of disgust and offence at the disrespect - for both me AND my girlfriend. I should have ended things with him right there and then. To be fair, he never did it again and I never spoke to him about it, but the lack of consideration towards me in that moment was an indicator of the lack of care in other areas of our relationship that would follow and we broke up 11 months in.

Is there a chance they could be obsessive intrusive thoughts? When I was younger, because I have severe emetaphobia (fear of nausea and vomiting) my mind used to ruminate on the most vile things because I was so afraid of being sick that that’s all I could think about. My mind would throw image upon image of the most horrific massacres, etc. - the stuff of nightmares that would induce anyone to nausea, and I couldn’t escape the thoughts. I didn’t actually want to imagine those scenes by any stretch and it mostly only got to me when I was away from my home because that’s when I would become most anxious with my phobia (being outside = no control of my environment). 

With a lot of time and hard work, I was able to get out of that situation and function pretty well back in the world again. All this to say that sometimes when you’re worried or afraid of something, your kind can zero in on it with a fierce focus that sometimes has you questioning yourself. Due to your experience of seeing women in your family and life being abused/assaulted do you think perhaps you are afraid you might be the same and so your mind is playing tricks on you/ruminating on that which it is afraid of?

In any case, I would seek therapy from a licensed psychologist who specialises in trauma and behavioural issues to help get to the root of why you fantasise about taking control of women in a violent non-consensual way. You may yet have a happy relationship based on love, respect, and consensual intimacy with the right kind of guidance and help. 

Best of luck, OP!

I sometimes still wonder about KnightMan who wrote a post several years ago about his cheating wife. We all liked him so much as he was a really upstanding guy and many of us looked forward to his updates. I was thinking about it just this morning and where he is in the world - if he ended up getting serious with that nice lady he met some time after his divorce.