backinlife

Update and hope for totally heartbroken:

My boy and I are getting married this year. i did everything wrong during the breakup, i whined and cried, and when I stopped doing that, he started missing me so bad. We were back together after 3 horrible months and i think be both learned that this love is hard to destroy. Which is one of the reasons why we can make the decision to get married and be very confident about it.

So cheer up heartbrokens, if its meant to be....

Yes it does! Problem: contact sucks even more

Question is, if she's playing games do I keep playing? Or at what point do I stop, and say "just call me and tell me whats on your mind?"

She would if she could i suppose... If she doesn't she might not want to, or not be sure enough. Don't tell her that. You are not playing, she is. You were clear and now its on her. She asked for stinky tennis shoes, take it for what it is. I know it feels wrong, and i know you feel that she tries to make contact to open the door. But if she wants to open the door, she needs to touch the handle, pull it down and OPEN it. Knocking is not enough for you to open it.

Don't sell out. I think you did the right thing.

Mona

What was I thinking???

He forwarded me a mass email the next day, also stupid, lifted me up again. But as of today I am lower than last week. Just a phase... It was nice to be ok for a couple of days, but now I am back to the same old. I really do love him, I guess, always did. I know he does too. Sometimes simple things get so complicated...

I almost get angry, looking at how easy it all could be. But well, that must be life.

Are you really sure you want to give up the USMA for her? And you don't want to make it an issue for her? Tell her you applied and they rejected you anyway. And tell her you are happy, now you don't have to feel strange about not going. Tell her you really wanted to be with her, but you applied because all her talk that you shouldn't make a concession that big made you crazy. So now you are happy faith decided... Its a lie, but I think if you don't do it, its a lot of pressure for her and it will influenece the relationship....

I hope i am not mean for advocating a lie.

Mona

Reasons on my side:

- I cheated

- How stupid can one person be? I CHEATED

- I Cheated and expected him to forgive me

His side

- He couldn't forgive me

- He was in a dificult life situation

- He was lost and crushed

- He was scared to put himself up for another fall

- He was not ready to give up anything for me anymore

...wow, he really does have his reasons....

1. Dumper

2.

a.) 16 month

b.) 1 month

c.) 2 weeks

d.) 1 month

3. Dumper

4. Dumper

5. 2

6. No

7. b, c, h,

8. b, c,, h, l

9: 4

10.: 6

12: b,e,h

1. Dumper

2.

a.) 23 months

b.) --

c.) 3 years

d.) --

3. Dumpee

4. --

5. 1

6. No

7. b, c, h,

8. a, b, d, h,

9: 5

10: 6

1. Dumpee?

2. how long was the

a.) 6 months

b.)

c.) 1 year

d.)

3. Dumpee

4.

5. 2

6. yes

7. k,l,m

8. k,l,m

9: 8

10. 7

Hey,

Calgaryguy is my hero, he did it man. I read some of his posts to find out the secret to getting back together and came accross a post where he tries to find data on getting back together...And I think we should try that again and see how things look now. So please just give data on the following questions for each of your EX (doesn't matter wether you have gotten back together or not):

1. Are you Dumper or Dumpee in this relationship, was it maybe more complicated than that, or did you both agree it was better to part?

2. how long was the

a.) relationship before breakup

b.) break

c.) time of NC

d.) relationship after getting back together (if applicaple)

3. Who initiated contact after NC (Dumper or Dumpee) (answer no matter whether you are friends now or got back together)

4. If applicable: Who initiated getting back together? (Dumper or Dumpee)

5. If not back together: are you friends now (rate friendship on a scale from 1 for "we kind of still talk" to 10 "Best friend"

6. Do you think getting back was/ would have been a good idea?

7. Reason for breakup given by the dumper (check one or more)

a)Love died

b.)Too much fighting

c.)Change in living situation (like going back to colleague, changin jobs, etc)

d.)Distance (physical)

e.)Cheating (as in sex)

f.)Affair (as in love for another plus sex)

g.)Emotional Cheating (as in love for another)

h.)Wants to see what else is "out there"

i.) sudden insecurity about own personality "being lost"

j.) different friends group or different setting, where partner doesn't fit in anymore

k.) family pressure against the relationship

l.) friend's pressure against the relationship

m.) too young for serious relationship

n.) other: (please specify short)

8. Real reasons (make a guess if you are not the dumper)

a)Love died

b.)Too much fighting

c.)Change in living situation (like going back to colleague, changin jobs, etc)

d.)Distance (physical)

e.)Cheating (as in sex)

f.)Affair (as in love for another plus sex)

g.)Emotional Cheating (as in love for another)

h.)Wants to see what else is "out there"

i.) sudden insecurity about own personality "being lost"

j.) different friends group or different setting, where partner doesn't fit in anymore

k.) family pressure against the relationship

l.) friend's pressure against the relationship

m.) too young for serious relationship

n.) other: (please specify short)

9: Rate this relationship according to importance for your life in retrospect from 1 "just a crush, now that i think about it" to 10 "This was the one"

10: Rate you feelings about this relationship now from 1-10, 1 being " I am completely unsathisfied with this relationship, it leaves a bad taste" to 10 "something real good came out of this for me"

11. Comments: Crucial things we need to know about this relationship

EDIT: 12: If applicable: What was the reason for getting back together on your side

a.) Love

b.) Hurt feelings

c.) Problems had solved

d.) Trust that problems could be solved

e.) missing the partner

f.) realizing the partner was the one

g.) didn't manage to find someone better

h.) friends told me to

i.) other

Here is the old post

The more answers, the more significant the results, lets find out the patterns of getting back together!!! Science is a beautiful thing to hold on to...

Please take the time to answer, I think this could get interesting, I will put the effort of analyzig the data... If you don't feel comfortable about posting the results here, just PM me, I will include your data, but won't publish your individual results...

I will answer first... i hope its not too complicated.

Thanks

Mona

Hey Ice, you are up early....

Mona thanks your post really made me feel better its just so hard to imagine now that she is still that person I shared so much with, and that things would even work in the future.

I am going trough all this too, so I don't have ultimate wisdom, but I found some answers that make me the peacful individual for now...For example: This comes from my mom, wise woman. I was complaining a lot that my Ex has changes so much and is such a different person right now (e.g. he cared lots and when he hadn't heard from me he would call and check on me all the time, in such a loving way, he would adore me and be the perfect respectful guy... today he is a drunk and when i call him crying he tells me he doesn't care) So i started thinking that it would be so easy if he would only realize we are good for each other and take it from there, why can't he? My mom says: looking at millions of different people in the world and the different things they do, we might believe that there are so many options of handling things. But its a trick. Not everybody can choose from all these options. In fact, people are rather limited in their choices of how to handle situations from past experiences, their personality, who they are basically. So while it looks like we all can do and act how we want, this is not true. most often we have no choice, we feel trapped. I am sure your ex feels the same, and while she feels she has to do what she is doing she gets angry a.) for feeling trapped, and b) for others telling her she could do it differently. if you say baby, its easy, come back we figure it out, you don't do her justice. She wouldn't have taken the step to leave you if she had known how to stay around. if you say it is so easy, she will feel like an idiot for not being able to despite.. So let her know its OK, perfectly valid. Stop pushing, by that you don't acknowledge her trouble.

Its the same for me when people tell me " Mona, its over, he said it and you knw he means it. So move on" and at the same time i know all this, but i can't move on. Despite the fact that I know all this. And it makes me feel even smaller, that i even want to move on but still can't. i feel i have no control and I am trapped. I don't know about you, but I can relate to her...

I got weak and talked to her last night about everything. I wanted to know what we were doing and she said nothing has changed, i didnt know what she meant and she said we were gonna see at the end of the summer, which was a lie because just a few weeks ago she said now.

If its going to happen at the end of the summer, then not because you scheduled it for then. Its not abpout agreements at this point. She doesn't owe you to think about it even. She broke it off, she said she won't come back. it is legitimate! Even if you can't understand her reasons at all. You need to get out of this position. It is disrespectful for yourself. I know it is close to impossible. But you need to detach and not make an idiot out of yourself in front of her. Stop asking her, stop talking, in the end actions will decide, not words.

She admitted she said some things last night to get a rise out of me, she said i was too sensitive. I told her I missed the special things we shared and how much its hurts that she doesnt miss that and how she can throw away everything we had so easily. She said she wished it worked out and that she misses that too.

Don't pressure her into saying stuff like this. its bad for you to hear it, and she will probably hate herself for saying it.

I told her that we never worked on our problems, then I mentioned what problems I felt were an issue and on the topic of lying she really laid in to me saying that lying is abusive and neglecting and its my fault. I told her I was eliminating that problem from my life. That was the only issue she really had anything to say. I told her that the breakup wasnt all my fault and she shouldnt be blaming me, an outsider looking at our relationship wouldnt have thought it was such a bad relationship.

I am sure it wasn't. And i am sure you both did all you could at the time. Thats also one by my mom. Stop thinking about what you/she could have done differently. Be sure that at the time, you did what you did, and it was at the time what you could do. it's ok. if that wasn't enough, you will grow and be better next time.

She said that the relationship wasnt salvageable. I got pretty upset when she said that because i told her we never worked on our problems, and how can any progress be made when you just run away from problems. She didnt say much to that.

She says this, she sais that.... I get the feeling she doesn't really know either. And thats ok. I am pretty confused right now, and the range of my thoughts is huge. one second this, one second the other. German Saying: Don't set your sail when the sea is stormy. Right now its madness, so don't try to get lasting agreements, or messages.

She kept saying she doesnt know how her feelings would ever come back, I told her if she was going to see at the summer to keep an open mind, and she started to get mad at me for that, saying that she doesnt feel romantically for me anymore, and nothing would probably change that. That shes already pretty much made up her mind. I told her that was unfair then to say we would see at the end of the summer. She said be prepared for her to say no to us again.

Be not only prepared to her saying no, prepare to say no. End of the summer is still a while in the future. You should aslo keep an open mind. Maybe about the possibility of YOU being fine without her then. I know it sounds sick to you now, and you don't want to hear it, cause this relationship was so special to you, and all that. But you sound like a special guy. Maybe you are even bigger than this love. Don't call her unfair, maybe she needs this end of summer thing for herself, it is a lot of pain to break away from you, maybe she needs to tell herself that there is this opion, so she can bear it. Maybe she truly believes it. End of summer, ok, why don't you take care of yourself till then. Nothing is going to happen before that anyway. Maybe you don't even want that anymore then...

The conversation was pretty hostile because she made it, I was just trying to talk things over and try and get stuff out in the open. I told her she wasnt the same person that I loved and I dont know her anymore. She said thats not true shes the same person.

You call her on the things she is troubled with right now. she doesn't want to deal with this, obviously, she broke up with you, so she didn't have to deal with it... Leave her alone, give her a chance to figure it out on her own.

Its definitley NC now, I cant stand talking to her, and as much as I still care about her and as much as I miss her, we have only had up to 5 days of NC. Shes always had me around and thereforeeee she hasnt really had a chance to miss my presense. I've gotten stronger than I was weeks ago and I only plan on getting stronger, she should not have this effect on me although I guess thats love.

Its great what you are doing. i know it feels wrong. And i know its appaling that one person can have so much power over us. But consider that this is not only her power affecting you, you are part of this energy too. It probably not only hurting cause you love her, but also because you WANT to love her. You are clinging on to the idea of love as much as you are clinging on to her. I am so sorry you are hurting. I am pretty sure you are an amazing guy, sad to hear you are down.

Its so hard waking up in my bed and remembering sleeping with her in it, having sex with her in it. So much reminds me of her, I dont even know if things remind her of me, I dont even know if she misses me.

She does, I am sure. Anything else is unlikely.

I'm going to try to give up all hope but thats going to be hard, its going to be hard to not imagine us together again at some point because for some reason I really feel it. Everytime I enter her house I never feel like its the last time. Everytime she says probably not and I dont feel romantically for you I dont think it will be permanant. I'm probably being naive or trying to hold on to the girl I thought I would be with forever, but something in my gut tells me, when other relationships were over I knew they were over deep down.

If she is the one, she will come back. Regardless. Rely on that, and don't wait for it.

I told her that if she doesnt want me someone else will, someone else will love to be with me and will appreciate me much better than she is. It felt good to say that even though I shouldnt have probably, I could have gotten much angrier but I held back.

I am sure you are right.

I dont know why i'm being put through this, but there must be a greater plan for me, maybe its to meet someone even greater than her, maybe its to make what we had stronger, maybe this doesnt involve me and instead involves her figuring out whatever she needs to.

 

I guess we'll see what the future brings, I thank god that I have possibly found someone else who is wonderful in so many ways, I thank god that I found this forum for without it I wouldnt have had necessary support to help me keep going. I thank god for bringing me to my ex and allowing us to share what we shared. I trust in him to lead me to what is right, but I pray for her wellbeing and hopefully one day maybe being together again.

ja, you will see what the future brings anyway... I don't believe in god as in one that pulls the strings, i believe in a communal plan, complexity and interdependencies, and its too complex to figure it out. By trying we only waste energy. Something good will happen, I am sure.

I sometimes get angry at myslef for being so unable to do what i want and what is logical, but i am also proud i can have such strong feelings... it gives me hope.

HUG!

Mona

Hi Ice

I am sorry, it didn't go like you expected it. I have tried to imagine what it would be like to go out with my Ex (even though we are not anywhere close to that), and I have several horror scenarios.

Your evening sounds like one. On the other hand, it really is understandable. Things have to go slow now. And this was slow.

What bugs me, is that she has become so trashy and childish. If this would have been a date with a girl you had just met, and she would tell you those things, and show hardly any interest in you (e.g. hold your hand, send looks, elctricity in the air when the skin of your arms touches) what would you think?

I would think, wow, she is trashy, lost, not a girl to have anything serious with..., plus: she doesn't seem to be crazy about me.

Of course this situation is somewhat different, you have shared a lot of intimacy before and you KNOW what is behind this behaviour. But you wouldn't give this kind of credit to someone you had just met. The past "HER" was great, I am sure, and this past girl meant a lot to you. But if you try to see her for what she is right now, she is just not that attractive as a possible future girlfriend.

I know its not that easy, its simplifying things and maybe even leaving out important determinants, but in the end those determinants can't be figured out, so sticking to this simplified info is all that you have.

I am really sorry about this. I think you should give her time to become herself again (I think she isn't right now... maybe thats part of her, but this trashy side gets way too much priority, its out of proporation). The new "Her" will be different than the old one, but maybe you like it just as much or more.

If you love a person that much, you need to trust in their progress. And if her progress includes you, even better. Trust her that she does this right, even if her methods seem strange right now. If she is the woman you know and love, she will manage this just fine eventually.

It is not that now everything is failed, It was just a little early for you to meet up i guess. She is nowhere near finding herself, and as sad as it is, you can't help her. She needs to do this by herself, and probably she will lose you in the process, but not necessarily... If she is your girl, and you are still convinced of that, then a month, or even a year, is nothing compared to a lifetime. If you are really that important to each other, you fill find each other again. And nothing that happens now, in this weird phase since breakup will change it, it can only prolong it.

Have faith that she will get out of this without you, have faith that this is what she needs right now. she has no other possibilities it seems. And you owe her to grant her this time of being trashy and wild, and take care of yourself while she is gone.

I wish i could say anything that makes sense right now, or make you feel better. I am really sorry...

Mona

After crying my eyes out till yesterday, today on day 11 NC (10 weeks after first considering breakup, 4 weeks after seeing him last and 3 weeks after him telling me this is no break, this is a break up) I woke up and was ok. Not great or anything, but ok. No tears. I couldn't even cry if i wanted to. I ate! Laughed even. So I sat down applying for jobs praising myself to the fullest (hadn't been able to do that since today, i just felt * * * * and couldn't get there). And so I sit there, he comes to my mind, I SMILE (!). I was goooood.

No 15 minutes later he pops um on IM. my heart starts racing, I think I am going to die. How does he do it i wonder, he is blocked. So he asks me about my stuff thats still with him. I don't answer. He tells me he that he is very busy. i don't answer. He complains about exams. I don't answer. He sais he is tired and stressed. I don't answer. for 5 minutes nothing happens. I don't answer, I can't close the window....

Then he says: Fine I throw your stuff out on the strets then. I DO ANSWER! We are talking about my hifi system!!! and my credit card....and some underwear. So I say: Sorry, I have been away. My stuff is being taken care of, a friend will get it, it had been arranged.... (He had asked me before what happens with the stuff and he knows that i arranged for a solution later this month...I thought he might like my stereo for a while, he uses it a lot, so not urgent...) His answer: Thanks

I logged off finally

Here are the feelings racing through my head in chronological order:

God, I love him so much

But for what?

he has anger issues

he can't deal with NC for 11 days

he is so weak

he told me goodbye and now he needs me

he thinks his schoolstress is my fault

He hasn't learned anything

Two people love each other dearly and they can't even have a conversation?

This man is someone I don't know

I wouldn't want this man in my life

What a jerk

And how easily he is manipulated....

I lost interest

WOW, and then i was happy for a while I was still ok. Didn't think of him in a while. And then i was shocked about my own coldness. The minute he gave in, I felt like I won and now i can close the chapter. What a cold hearted, selfish person I am. It is as if i never had feelings to begin with... But as hard as i try, looking at pictures, looking at his text messages... nothing works. it just stopped.

Was i just trying to get him back to reverse my defeat? did i ever love this man? Am I cold hearted ans sick? or is this just a phase?

Part of me hopes I am truly not affected anymore, cause i can function again, but a bigger part of me wants to believe that I am not that cold and calculating... This is so unexpected! Its not like he confessed his love for me, but I feel I have won (which is sick in itself and tells me I have been playing a GAME, which i didn't intend)

Thoughts anybody? Similar experiences? Please?

Mona

Three possibilities for your absense...

1. You are happily back together

2. You have moved on so much that you don't even want to post anymore

3. You are taking NC to another level and just include everybody....

Trying to be funny... Hope you are ok

Mona

What's the average wind speed of an African swallow?

I am as confused about all the other questions as you... but the african swallow thing is also unclear

this is all I found

link removed

I am sorry about the mess you are in. She might just need time, but as long as you are around, she is under no pressure to make a decision. I wouldn't if I were here, she is in a very comfortable position.

Mona

Hi Leigh...

I can feel this is going to be a long one, hope you don't get bored

NC for almost 2 weeks now... other than the indirect contact the ex seems to be having with me through my father on IM..

How can that be right if it sounds so wrong.... day 11 for me...Hell! I am really convinced this NC is good for healing, maybe, but for reconciling i think its poison. It might have the effect on D that he finds out he really loves you maybe, but could you ever forgive him the pain? Not being there when you were down? Kicking you out for his piece of mind? Ahhh, really the lack of options is annoying. I am a person that likes to be in control, and this is out of control!

I found out another small tidbit of something that the ex said when my parents were at my old apartment picking a few things up July 4th weekend....

I think you are overthinking things. me too. I go back to old chat conversations and try to read into small words and things he said and all. and depending on my mood i get different results. I guess we are suffering from the difference between emotion and logic, but analyzing his words won't bridge this gap.

I give you exactly what i would think at different times of the day... Red is what i would think in the afternoon, when I am mostly angry, green what would be my morning-take on it - when i am romantic and crying and believe in love , and blue what i would thing at night, when i am over-rational and giving up

The ex apparently mentioned how I could have moved back in there even though we weren't together until I had my own job and new place arranged....

The idiot should have told you that if he would care for you a little

He regrets his decision and wants you to come back, he thinks his appartment is empty without you and he misses you

he is feeling guilty, still likes you as a friend and hates to see that you are suffering

Of course, he never said this to me after the break up, but, then again, we have not spoken about "us" since the very first week that the relationship ended... maybe he was just saying it to alleviate his guilt..

SO he dumps you out of the appartment and now he doesn't even want to take responsibility for his action and tries to look good in front of your relatives, he could have told you this... How much is a local phonecall in the states?

He sees his mistake of throwing you out and now he wants to make it good again, he is just to proud to say it

He is sorry things worked out so bad for you and he still cares, he would have taken you in generously as a friend, you can*t be together, but he is still a hero and generous

Again, my parents mentioned how the ex had commented on being away from his computer and returning to find my IM message that basically relayed that I was a bit hurt and that I was cutting contact - but they had never told me until just now that he was angry at me for it... I don't really understand why that should make him angry - I was obviously hurting when I wrote it, so it wasn't like I'd done it vindictively..

poor guy was angry at you being sad, how crazy is that? does he have a clue how angry you are? He kicked you out, took your home and your love, how angry are you???

You hurt him big time with your anger, he loves you and he can't take this now, after you have suggested a break, on top you demand he answers all your IM contact immediately, he is so crushed

He wants to be your friend and be there, he is frustrated that contact between you is now so complicated

I'm also finding myself analysing the timing of his comments this week

 

It could be all random. As much as you are switching between feelings he is too. Maybe his average is more towards its over and yours is more towards we can mend it, but he is going forth and back too. Think about all those weird feelings you are goung through. i am sure sometimes you think "Its good that he is gone" even if its only a split second. And he is sometimes, for a split second thinking " I want to get in my car and drive to canada and get my girl back, cause i am so lonely and made a mistake..." Its all there. All those feelings. As long as there is no action, we have to focus on what is actually there...

 

- last Saturday he learns that I'm not returning to pack my own things in the apartment and that the furniture will be moved out by my family in October (all new news to him).

- The ex mentions how "he at least thought I'd be back to pack my things at some point"

 

Which took a little power from him, he could have seen you look sad once more and felt alleviated cause he is such a hero

he would have loved you coming back and then he would have told you that his love is for real and asked you to come back

he wanted to catch up, and have adult-feedback talk of what went wrong and then he would have been able to be friends with you

 

- Monday he IMs my father to see if I've started working here yet - to which my father responds.. maybe next week.

Its none of his business, really, he chose to kick you out of his life

he is concerned you are moving away from him, cutting ties and have your own life now, he is scared you eliminate chances of reconciling

he is still interested in your life somehow, after all you have spend a lot of time together, just checking on you

- Wednesday the ex gives a semi-offer of contract work for me through their biz .

 

Sorry, but an offer is something else. I have little clue about business, but that is even too little between business partners.

he is trying to make a start for conversation so you two can get closer and reconcile eventually

he would like you still in your life, as a graphic designer and friend, he misses his friend and colleague

 

I guess the NC, but LC with my father, is getting to me because I'm starting to wonder if the timing of the offer of work knowing that in a week I might be tied into employment here was possibly in an attempt to show me that there was still a chance to work with them (the ex and his biz partner) before I take this new position..

 

You don't want that, if he is offering you that, he hasn't understood anything. That would be like me offering my Ex to participate in a threesome with my new girlfriend, or him asking me out for a bight with his drinking buddies to get wasted...

he tries to get the problem solved that led to your breakup. He understood that being stressed about the work thing was the reason things got bumpy and now he wants to show you that he can take care of that. Once he has gotten this out of the way, you will be fine and can be happy ever after

he wants to not break the busines contact with you, after all you did good work

 

I'm moving on with my life still, don't worry, just trying to figure out what his motives could be right now...if anything.

 

If he would come back it would be as clear as the fact that you want to come back... And anything else, well, why is it so important. Do you think he is sitting there, thinking what he did wrong?

 

In my opinion, the result of the red, the angry opinion is: move on, this guy has no clue what he's missing and maybe he will one day, but you can't wait for that

 

The result of the green and mooney opinion is: this guy loves you and doesn't have the balls to stand up for it, so move on, you can't wait for him to muster the strenght

 

And the conclusion of the blue is: This guy wants to be friends and colleagues with you after he hurt you so much. Do you want a friend like that? Probably you have better friends around. So move on, look at all those people in this forum, they keep at your side through this hard time, listen to every new development. I am waking up in the morning, checking on your post and I think about how you feel a couple of times a day… I know I don’t know you, but you touch me, even if only because we are in similar situations or cause i happen to have much time on my hands. And that is something

 

Probably it is all of the said at some point. he is in between all of that too. He doesn't seem to have a very clear line of thought either. But none of these currents are actually really useful. Time might make one or the other stand out, or make him realize what he really feels, but right now none of this is even worth thinking about.

 

He will also be here (our hometown) in another week and a half or so for three weeks, and I'm wondering if his mention of being unable to find a graphic designer (ie: my job) was a way for me to initiate contact before he comes home so that we might be able to see one another while he's here..

 

If he wants to see you to catch up, he will find you, he knows where you live. Really now, if you would have not been in a relationship with him, but would be interested in a realtionship with him, would you give him so much credit? If you want something you find ways. And this backdoor with the graphic design is a bad one, that raises to many bad feelings. I think he could make up something better f he really was interested.

 

I feel like I'm getting mixed signals because of the contact with my father

- but I guess the only signal I need to worry about is that IF he still loves me, his pride is still most important as he refuses to initiate contact with me...but has no problem initiating with my father on almost a daily basis..

 

I really think it is disrespectful of him to talk to your dad. Make it clear to your dad that you don't want to hear anything anymore, it drives you crazy. I thought he has so much backbone, so much pride, i think he should muster the pride to tell you personally or not at all.

 

 

Any thoughts, as always, would be greatly appreciated. .

 

I tried to take away the boredom of only my opinion by giving you the whole range of possible takes on this that is inside of me, but I am sure this is inside of you too.

 

Sorry, only my thoughts, and you have heard them many times, maybe too many times.... I would guess that, because my thoughts on my situation are similar, and i am pretty fed up with my thoughts, they are repetitive and make logical, but not emotional sense... the old trap of logic. Your man is a man of a lot of attitude... if he can direct it against you, he can also use it to get you back. He doesn't yet, at all.

 

I like my analogy, he slammed the dor in your face, now a slight knock can't bring you to open it again, no? He would have to open it wide. I know what you think, maybe he is waiting for you to open it again... but you did, you made it very clear that you are waiting for him to open it, and would smile at him if he did, thats all you can do without risking another door in your face. And it is good that you are not standing so close to that door again, it only makes us miserable standing in front of a closed door.

 

I am so sorry Leigh. I am so sorry. I know how it feels, unfair and cruel and hopeless. I am crying a river. My cheek skin is peeling off cause of the salt in my tears. Nothing will change it. Not our actions, not our words, not distance or proximity, not coincidence or anything else, not being self distructive against ourselves, not analyzing what was said, not clinging on or letting go. I think what has to happen will happen, and the answers and the whole world is inside of you. Do you know that split second of truth that appears when you are meditating, that second where you think you have it all inside of you and you are everything? That feeling is the truth, it doesn't come easy and it doesn't last long, but at least there are seconds when i am perfectly fine and centered. And getting closer to that in everyday life is more important than anything, and i think we will get there...

 

Wow, a long one...Don't think i believe everything myself i am telling you, seeing it written just makes it easier to believe for myself... I am sending you love (yes, there is still some left) and a big hug

 

Mona

if he leaves during the tough times, then he is not the one for you. the man of your dreams will stand by you through thick and thin, and if he leaves, then you know he is not for you.

 

alternatively, I have the trouble of having men most interested in me when I am having big problems, they want to help, but as soon as things go well, they leave.

Ja, you are exactly right. My boy left because of his pride and cause he thought if he stays for the trouble he will make a fool of himself.... and i think by leaving he made a fool of himself. Cause that proves that not only can't he take care of me when I have a problem, but he can't also take care of himself and his own happiness, cause he himself is in the way.

The quote from A lot like Love still applies: "Honestly, if you're not willing to sound stupid you don't deserve to be in love"

I know that second kind too.... they are all over me right now. Cause i am way down there.

annie's gotta point, sometimes you have to work your problems out on your own, not everyone out there wants to help you with your problems. And when you drag your b/f or g/f into this they see it as a sign of weekness. I am not trying to be rude here but it's true. If the problems are about you and him that's one thing. You have to work that out on your own. But if you have issues of your own you need to look down deep and find out why they are there. What caused them to happen or why you started to feel that way in the first place.

What do I need a boyfriend for if he is only around for the good times? I have friends that are better than that. They are still around, allthough they never said they would marry me. For me bearing the other one when he is weak is a big part of love. It comes with trusting. If I love someone, I trust him to be strong and will overcome weaknesses. If I run away, the message is: you will probably never get this straight. And thats a wrong message.

Even if it hurts to see the other one weak, a good realtionship for me entails the acknowledgement that together you are stronger than alone...

Whether i believe all this, or just would like to believe all this, I don't know. But if it is like you say, then whats this love stuff all about? WHo sais then we should couple up in pairs of two? If my friends are better than a partner, why would i not move in with them and just stop believeing in this love concept all together... Maybe it is true, but its too vain to believe.

Mona

If you have problems inside you, don't you think you should face them on your own?

 

maybe your ex would also rather deal with his issues on his own.

 

it takes 2 to make a relationship work....

And then we do that again when a new problem pops up? I really think that either you decide to work on things, or you leave it alltogether. I mean what kind of a realtonship is it, when he decides he is going through a rough time and wants to do that alone? I would never feel secure in such a relationship. Rough things happen all the time, and most problems just come to the surface then.

Like also in Blueberry's case. I mean I cannot understand the guy's reason for leaving. This can't be the real reason. This could have been worked out so easily. And still he left. i think most people leave and run from themselves. And I think if they do it once, they will do it again. They think they just figure themselves out alone and then find a new one and things will be dandy again, but they don't realize that love isn't easy to find and that it ccan also make a relationship stronger when rought times can be overcome.

This is true, It's like my ex wife's aunt told me when she was cutting my hair one day. she said "Ex's are ex's for a reason, you shouldn't try and get back with them, if something went wrong the first time it's bound to happen again"

But isn't it bound to happen with anyone then? I rather believe that the problems i am facing in relationships are problems that are inside of me, and I will have to deal with them at some point... I just wish my ex would be ready to adress them WITH me, not WITHOUT me, and we have similar problems, so it would make sense. Two people who really love each other should be able to work things out. I think people are too ignorant when they think they will find a new one and then the problem is solved. We usually hit the same walls again, at least I do.

NICE! I have thought about this for long, this just says it...

I hope so.

But does that reason make sense to you? If we love each other, shouldn't this physical distance be in our way? Or it was just his excuse, so I should ignore that and move on anyways?

I understand what you are saying. I have huge problems with his reason for breaking up on a logical and on a emotional plane. Logically, 6 months are nithing compared to a lifetime. If you are going to be apart for 6 months, even though communication will be hard and even though he will make a lot of experiences you can't share, it is completely feasible to find a solution for this WITHIN a relationship. I don't see the reason for breaking up. I assume you are a reasonable person and you two could have worked out a way of dealing with that other than breaking up, if he would only have considered the possibility.

On the emotional plane, breaking up seems really cruel. He is going away, leaving you behind allthough he knows you are hurting. The message is somehow, whenever things are less than perfect, I can't have you in my life... Maybe he is confused about what is an appropriate weight to put on you. Maybe he feels he can't demand from you that you wait for him. Maybe he wants to se what else life has to offer. Maybe he feels that he is doing something so new, that he needs to be alone in order to grow from it. Maybe he is isecure about whether he wants to be with you and thereforeeee has the decency to leave you.... YOu had a long relationship before that, maybe he just needs to me reminded of how much you meant to each other. And maybe that will happen.

But you are 100% right, if he comes back now, nothing has changed, you would never know why he came back. Out of curiosity, out of lonelyness, out of convenience? If he finds that he loves you, not for your past, but for who you are, without all the history and the common experiences, but for who you are now, then he will make an effort.

Hope you are doing ok, I am so much on the verge of dialing his number today that i have to call up friends all the time.... Day 8 NC

Mona

It is very strange that he is seeking out contact with my father on such a regular basis. I am trying not to find hope in that, but at the same time, they were not that close when we were together, so I'm very confused by the level of communication they are having now.

I stick to it, its weird.

I somehow feel that he may be trying to open a door for me to have a reason to contact him... that I might hear this and send an email offering my services. He is in contact with many other people in his line of work that know graphic designers...he also knows that relaying this to my father lets me know that he misses me, if only at a superficial level of having me to work with. As I said, he also knew that there was a risk that saying this would allow me to contact him and reestablish communication in a way that wouldn't force me to swallow my pride and admit that I wanted to talk to him. (ie: I ONLY contacted him because of work..) If he doesn't want to talk to me, then why give me ANY excuse to get in touch? I feel that he must believe that that is what I need to speak with him again... a reason. That maybe I'm not contacting him because I can't... not because I don't want to. Now that I'm not taking up this opportunity, he knows that I am not interested in grasping at just ANY reason to talk with him. That I am choosing not to talk with him because he has hurt me and I'm really trying to move on.

You would have to be a complete moron to work for this strange biz partner again, even if its just indirectly. And if anything, "D" should have understood that part of the story at least. So there must be something else behind this in my opinion. Maybe he is just trying to check on you somehow. Or maybe he tries to get you to initiate contact. It is very strong of you not to react to that. The only reason to talk to "D" would be his invitation to do so, with a comittment to try and work things out. Anything else is just too little, as you say. I think you are incredibly strong. It is a risk, but the alternative is also risky. If you want to get back together, you need to be eye to eye with him, and that is not the case yet. Reconciling would involve a lot more than the realization he needs you as a designer. God, sometimes i get angry at the stupidity we have to put up with... I know its not that easy, but sometimes i wish it were.

Yup. Now that he knows the furniture will not be an excuse for me to contact him (because my family is dealing with it) he may be looking for another reason for us to establish contact. This is really the only one he has left other than dropping the pride act and contacting me without a reason - except to admit that he WANTS to talk to me... He is still unwilling to do this... still trying to put the ball in my court, even though it's CLEARLY still in his.

Ja, that must freak him out.

My father has kept communication with D, even though he knows how much he's hurt me, because he feels that some communication (even through my family) is better than us cutting ties completely. The fact that D is reaching out this way, well, my father doesn't want to begrudge him the one avenue he seems to be trying to take to communicate indirectly with me. I think it DOES give him comfort to speak with someone who is so close to me. I, on the other hand, would feel very funny having daily contact with D's father. I would feel like that was sending a strong message to D that I was trying to speak with him somehow. That's just me, though. I don't know just how he expects me to take this. It could be a way of reducing his guilt, but then I think the easiest way for him to run from guilt would be to cut all ties completely and stop having daily reminders of me by speaking with my father. He is also surrounded by a home that I created right now. My father isn't giving advice on our situation. He is giving D advice on life in general. How to go about doing the vision quest...what to expect... how to focus on understanding himself and his motivations/fears while he goes on that journey. Part of me thinks that D is only speaking with my father because he is genuinely interested in pursuing this spiritual side and has nobody else to speak with about it... the other part of me says, if he's really trying to end things with me and move on.. can't all of this talk wait a few months until there is NO chance that I will get the wrong idea by him seeking contact with my family? Again, I am very confused.

It is confusing!

They do not discuss the relationship. D asked about me on Monday, wanted to know if I was working here yet. And then, the graphic designer comment came on Tuesday. Up until this week D did not mention me (directly or indirectly) at all. My father and D did speak about the relationship immediately after we'd broken up... I was on my way from LA to San Fran and they were speaking on MSN. My father tried to arrange a pickup for my things (furniture etc.) for a month from that time and D said "Hold off on that for now.." They again discussed the relationship a few days after that where D told my dad that he had loved me very much and still did, but that he felt he had given 150% and lines had been crossed ... that was over 6 weeks ago now. I'm not sure if he's had any changes of heart since then... he's asking about me now... good or bad, maybe things are starting to come to a head.

It feels like he tries to explane his decision to your father, it sounds like guilt to me. And by explaning it to people, he tries to rationalize it to himself.... Does he hear himself talking? "I loved her very much and still do, I have given 150 % and lines have been crossed..." Bla bla, Everything he needs to know is there... It was not a rational decision, why does he need to rationlize it? Is he trying to make it sound nice after he decided against you, or is he himself shaky about the decision and now needs to legitimize it to himself?

I am not contacting him... I am not taking him up on the semi-offer of work. I need him to contact me for the right reasons... not because he has an "excuse" to. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing... this may be the last attempt D will make to open a door to me. I guess I'm taking a big risk, but I keep thinking that he's just got to do better than that if he wants me in his life (at any capacity).

If he really is serious about you, and we can only hope that someday he will be, he will make an effort to get what he wants. He doesn't seem like the guy who wouldn't stand up for his wishes, so hopefully he will find that you is what he wants (maybe on his vision quest, somewhere at a windy road with lots of potholes he will understand that riding a bike on a straight, even road is not fun, its all about the serpentines and bumps, and then maybe he will think "wait a second, that's just like LIFE"...)

Hey all....

Sorry, its not directly related to your post, but indirectly. I just heard a great success story and it filled me with hope.

I had a close friend in high school, she was 17 back then. She got with this guy, and they seemed made for each other. They have been together for 3 years. The university got tough for her, she met a lot of new people and he somehow went into another direction. Very bad breakup, many lines were crossed. He cried and begged, NCed her, did the friendship thing for a while... Everybody was shocked that they parted.

I lost contact to her then, but today i found out that after a year she realized that he was the one, she realized that it had been bad timing back then. They are back together for 8 years now! I was so happy to hear that! Hope it cheers you up. A year sounds like an eternity now, but well....

Mona

Hi,

Really sorry to hear that you are in this mess. It sounds like she really needs to figure it out on her own. She knows everything she needs to know. And from there any new input wouldn't add anything. She seems confused and needs time. If you don't push now, she might understand your value and come back. Or she has changed, then you can do nothing about it. I think you are on a good track

You will be fine, and i hope soon

Mona

I start thinking that his contact to your dad is somehow weird. I mean it is nice that he doesn't detach from you completely, stays in contact. That is somehow hope and it makes everything look so much more civil. And it is also nice for him that your Dad can give him advice and lend him his ear and make him feel better in those rough times. But on the other hand... he knows that every word that is said reaches you somehow. And he is sticking things to you. What does he want to tell you with that? Possibilities:

He wants to tell you that there is work now, and you could have had it when you would have stuck it out. He seems to reduce your problems to the lack of work. He wants to show your dad that there is work now and you shouldn't have been histerical and left. He wants to tell you that even though he needs your input, he will look for someone else to do the job. He wants to tell your dad that you are mean and left him allthough he needs your graphic design services. Or he is just blabing away.

He knows your dad knows a good graphic designer.... This borders on the land of stupidity.

How does your dad feel about chitchatting with the guy that dumped his daughter, made her so miserable and has no heart to take her back and work on things with her? How does you father feel about all this? He could discuss all those issues with the woman he loves. Who understands him and is willing to listen. Who would love to be on his side for this. Why does he do that with your father? Any ideas? Is it a way for him to feel close to you? does it comfort him, or reduce his feeling of guilt? What is your guess? How can your father even give good advice, he is on your side after all....I don't get it.

Do they ever discuss the relationship with each other? I mean it is a crucial part of his life right now, the whole quest for himself is conected to that, I can't imagine they leave that out, do they? And what is said then?

Its somehow unnatural what they do. What are your dad's feelings aout this? doesn't he somehow feel in between? Tell me more, this is strange.

mona

So today my father asked me if the ex was an alcoholic..to which I responded no. I asked him why he'd asked this and he told me that lately when he and my ex are talking the ex mentions that he is hungover.

Isn't his lifestyle just great... Great way of showing you how ahead of the situation he really is. I am impressed!

It hurts me to hear that he is out drinking so much.. He used to do this before we had met.. I guess it's his way of getting it to me that he is having a blast in my absense.

He didn't like that life anymore, right? He was happy to have you, and he wouldn't have traded you for that life. He said that for a reason. Maybe he WANTED to believe it and didn't, then good riddance, but maye he did mean that, and then its just sad for him that he doesn't remember, or can't go back to it.

He has also continued to tell my father that he is running on a daily basis. Again, something that he never had an interest in before.

Mine is suddenly playing soccer... and not very well. They try things now to fill the gap. I don't think running can replace waking up next to you. And it can also not replace feeling loved. It's just a try to do something different, and running is better than drinking I guess.

I guess he is trying to let me know that he is doing great without me... hurts so much to feel that I'm sitting here grieving and he's out having the time of his life.

He certainly does it different than you. He maybe just shoves the whole topic aside and tries to ignore it for now. Its a stratgy. And since you are playing the other part, he can do that without any reservations. Have yo ever thought about the possibilty of switched roles? I thought about it. I could do what my Ex is doing right now if he would e doing what i am doing right now. If i knew he was home grieving, i could shove everything aside and go wild for some time... I think i wouldn't be so cruel doing that, and i would not risk losing him probably, but a milder version of what he is doing i would be capable of.

I have not contacted him or shown online on MSN in a week and a half. He hasn't made any effort to contact me. This is SO difficult. I am hurting so much and next weekend he will be here for a few weeks. I am so terrified that he will not contact me...or worse, that he WILL contact me and just reitterate that things are over and he's happier without me.

Same here, same fear. If he would e super cool about the breakup, he could be nicer. What he is doing is unnatural. Being with someone for such a long time, and suddenly you don't talk anymore, especially since he knows you are on the floor. So if he would be ok with the situation and have no big feelings (be it anger or love, or anger at the love, or whatever) he could just be normal and polite. he isn't though. He needs to e a perfect jerk towards you. So that makes me believe that there is a lot going on inside of this guy

Sounds crazy to say, but my doctor has stepped up my counselling to twice a week in anticipation of D's visit. They are really trying to help me expedite my healing process... but today, I feel so weak. I feel like I'm slipping out of his mind. That I never meant anything to him. That he will numb his pain by drinking until he's forgotten about me completely.

He is trying to get you out of his system, ja, cause he is overwhelmed and going crazy. And he hates that you have the power to make him feel bad. That makes him even more angry and its all your fault. He hates that feeling, and he is tring to get rid of it.... but he can't. You are inside of him. Rock solid. Nothing that can e removed easily. And he won't be able to remove you without losing part of him. And he needs to decide how precious that part of him really is.

God this hurts. I want to curl up in a ball and stop the world until this pain has gone away.

I know the feeling. i actually do curl up then behind the open fireplace in the living room. Nobody can see me there easily, and it like i disappeared. And i feel i am not there.....

Tomorrow will be better, cause it can't get worse

Mona