Sam1986

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

LOLLL! Thanks for the chuckle.  I think you mostly want to argue.  Good luck to you and I  hope some of my input helped.

I didnt mean to argue, it was just the gist of what I got out of Jaunty's reply. Thanks for all the input though.

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

 I agree with Jaunty's input.

What, that I'm clingy and high maintenance?

7 minutes ago, abykann said:

Yes this is the same man from my previous post. If I knew he was truly committed to me then I would have no problem with the move. Our relationship has been very strong lately...I'd like to think he isn't just stalling with no intention of ever committing but it's starting to look that way

Usually I would advocate that you bring this up, but apparently you did press the issue. What is quite unfortunate though is that it turned into a fight, as those dont tend to resolve anything, especially when there is important information that you would like to get out of it (such as where that arbitrary 5 year number comes from). I would not let that issue slide though, but on the same time I would urge you to show a lot of restraint, remain open to his explanations and not let the topic escalate into a fight. If he is unable to hold a mature conversation about the topic though, then you might have bigger issues on your hand down the road. Because then it's more about him being a less than ideal long term prospect since he would be unable to hold an honest, open and mature conversation about an important issue. For me personally at least, I see the ability to hold an open conversation as the sign of a truly strong relationship. 

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening.  Unfortunately his timeline is just a stalling tactic, but you seem to know this. Please don't give up your whole life to "follow him" . He's not interested in any type of commitment.  Is this the same man?

You dont know that for certain enough to make a sweeping comment like that. You might be right, but there might also be other factors at play here (like an underlying fear of commitment, but not necessarily something that he is lying about deliberately).

21 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

It sounds like you need to loosen up a bit.   As another poster said, friendships are in a state of flux and don't remain static; also, you got very involved in planning group activities and seemed to focus on that more than on just being with the friend(s) and having a good time.  

In your example, you got to the pub and got a beer.  The other friends decided to head to the stadium.  You chose to stay there and drink your beer.  

Your choice!   You could have just gone with them.  Expecting that one friend to hang back and drink the beer with you so you would not be by yourself seems like a kind of clingy move on your part.    If you wanted to be with them it would be up to you to go along at the arranged time.

Please don't make this about somebody abandoning you for others.  If you're part of a friend group it's up to you to participate and add to the fun, not be "high maintenance" and expect anybody else there to take care of your feelings, especially when you're talking about a bunch of guys who are drinking beer in a pub prior to going to a rowdy event.

I respectfully disagree with this.

Yeah I could have gone with them, but this was not an "arranged time" at all, as I was literally told by text when I was on the subway that they would be leaving by the time I would arrive. Which pissed me off, since that was a damn late heads up and I wouldnt have bothered to hurry and finish my laundry to meet up with them, if I knew that they were leaving the second I walked in that door. I might as well have chosen to stay at home or take my time then. I absolutely had some expectations that we would hang around for a bit, since that was the norm in our group up until then.

I can get your point about being "high maintenance" (not that I think that I am, but still), but the thing that just pisses me off is that C starts complaining every time he doesnt get his way. So far he has complained several times about not getting his perfect spot at the stadium (even when I went in a bit earlier than him to get him what I thought was a good spot for us, at which point he complained as well), and personally I would love to just see him f* off if he really needs to secure that spot. So in terms of being "high maintenance", I think he would fit the bill as well. And he should especially be grateful when i entered before him to secure what I thought was his favourite spot, instead of complaining about it like a wanker afterwards that it wasnt three rows further up. F* that ungrateful pr***.

37 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Many groups tend to have a leader type. I wrote above my suggestions as an alternative to seeking out a group as opposed to making friends one on one. 

Yeah I have been trying to get some more one on one things going, but it's not something I can rely on yet unfortunately. Personally I don't subscribe to the whole "leader" thing, at least not when the leader is just forcing his own preferences on everyone else. I've been vocal on this already, and since things aren't changing I refuse to follow along with it.

7 minutes ago, yogacat said:

@Sam1986

I agree with most of what you said. It's true that men tend to look at women, and it's something that many women are used to. Isn't it different though when the man is on a date and is glancing at other women?

While it may not necessarily be malicious, it can feel disrespectful and dismissive of the woman he is on a date with.

Yes, he apologized and acknowledged it. If this is something that would continue to bother her and make her feel disrespected, especially when he said "it's an ongoing habit" and not something he can control, then it might be best for her to consider whether this is a dealbreaker for her in the long term...

It's not fair to dismiss someone's feelings just because it's "normal" behavior. 

Call her overly choosy, call her paranoid and insecure, those labels don't really mean much to a couple that just met. 

She has a choice between people who make her uncomfortable, and people who don't make her uncomfortable.

That's perfectly fair, but I thought I'd mention it since apparently her friends have hinted about her struggling to find a man. Might be related, might not.

I have glanced at other women on dates before and even when in a relationship myself, and it's not a conscious decision on my part at all. I do recognize it myself though, so when I become aware of it I pretend to look at something else. It's an annoying thing when it happens at the wrong time, but I really can't help it as it's not a conscious thing at all. But we're talking about a glance here, not staring. If someone stares they have more than enough time for the conscious part of the brain to kick in and take the reins.

She is not interested. Had this happen to me before as well, and it's nice that you took your shot. But recognize it for what it is and see it as something good, since now you can spend your time on better prospects and forget about her.

3 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

It happens instinctively to a certain type of men. I think it’s a question of values. I’ve never been in a relationship with a men doing that in front of me (I say it because I don’t really know what they were doing when I wasn’t here even though i canot imagine them doing it this way) High value men don’t behave like that in front of someone they are dating… and him recognizing it was a mistake absolutely doesn’t discredit his behavior. 
 

Thats just you making a baseless claim on how you want the world to be. "High value men dont do X" is just a projection on how you want the world to be, not necessarily how it actually is. I have never cheated and consider myself a high value man (who doesnt?), but according to your strict definition, Im not.

If you want to seek out feedback that just supports your narrative of him being a potential cheating bastard, then by all means go ahead and seek that feedback, but I'm not trying to actively deceive you here. Im just telling it how it is, and the fact that you describe it here as a brief glance (not staring, that is something else entirely) that he apologized for as well, that speaks a lot about how mature he is in recognizing it.

If it was indeed just a quick glance (which he apologized for), I personally think that you are judging him very harshly here. And if this is a recurring pattern on your side (reacting harshly to small perceived slights), I'd be so bold as to say that he is probably the one who dodged a bullet here. Just curious - why do you think that this was a bad thing in? Is there anything that you are worried about?

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

When were you expected to arrive and when did you tell them you would be there? Why is it important to you to have a group of people who all want to do the same thing at the same time? Why not seek out individual friendships? It sounds like you and C don't have a lot in common and you don't like C. But they do.  That can happen in groups of course. 

Group dynamics can change especially if one person's lifestyle is changing.  I had friends who were unwilling to accommodate my new schedule when I had a baby, and who were unwilling to make only tentative plans when I worked very long and unpredictable hours from age 28-42.  I had acquaintance groups. Monthly dinner/networking group, monthly book club meeting, like that but mostly I made plans one on one, or with other couples, or sometimes with 2 friends.  If it's that important for you to have a "group" then accept that that is often harder to find -as you're seeing now in a group dynamic that is not working for you.

I wasnt "supposed" to come at any time, but personally I tend to be out early (2-3 hours) because I like the social aspect of it. In this case I was "late" by my own standards. These guys are usually "late" as well, but especially C here doesnt value the social aspect of it much and wants to get inside as early as possible (hence no need to socialize beforehand). Its not necessarily the problem that we are supposed to do everything together (I have another friend who is like that..) but more that they choose him and whatever his wishes are at any time.

So far I've entered early under his lead a couple of times, but its getting tiresome that its always him calling the shots, hence his schedule that we are supposed to conform to. Who made him the leader? Anyway, Im just ranting here at this point.

On 5/11/2024 at 1:57 PM, Sindy_0311 said:

Like I said, it was very quick, kind of like a quick burp… 1 or 2 sc max. Until he realized it was inappropriate and immediately apologized. The issue is, when we talked about what happened he said that its a reflex he is trying to get rid of… meaning that it occurs regularly and maybe already was an issue with other ladies… just another Italian guy after all 😆

This is normal for guys, I do it from time to time as well and its not really something that can be helped as its something that happens instinctively. But the fact that he apologized shows that he is aware of it and made an effort to to correct himself, which I think is a sign of maturity.

Have you had an honest conversation with him about this? You mention that you are to some extent avoiding to mention things to him from your everyday life, but do you shy away from the big discussion as well? If you haven't, then this needs to be brought up. Maybe he flies off the handle, maybe he doesnt, but you owe it to both of you to bring it up properly (if you havent yet).

8 hours ago, Andrina said:

You've made your efforts to plan outings with a friend and with the group, so you've done your part. Things have evolved to no longer being satisfying for you, so I'd no longer make efforts with any of them. Maybe your college friend will eventually realize he misses your company and goes back to making plans with you, or maybe he won't.

Just know that it's common for friendships to evolve, either for the good or the bad. It's happened for me and every person I know.

Some people choose to talk to their friend and divulge their feelings about the situation, asking for what they expect.

I've never done that and choose to take their actions as all I need to know. That I should move my spare time to enjoyable things which no longer involves someone who no longer values my friendship like they once did, or at least once pretended to.

You can join Meetup.com groups to meet new people to hang out with. You could even start your own Meetup group where you meet at a certain hour before the game at the bar like you're doing now, and then head over to the game together.

You can also join other groups that hike together, go to local festivals together, etc. When old friends fade away, it leaves room to form new friends. It sometimes takes longer than you'd like to fill that space that is no longer there, and takes time to build new friendships, but you have to be up for the challenge because the alternative is having no company. Take care.

That's a bit radical. I've known my friend for 15 years now, so that would be a bit rash over this one issue. That being said, I am somewhat disappointed in that things evolved this way, because it was supposed to be an activity for the two of us to begin with, but I was more than happy to have more people join in (like with B, who I introduced to our group). What I dislike about the situation though is that I'm now feeling left out of a thing that I "started" together with A, and noone really seems to care whether I show up or not, and if I show up, I am apparently expected to follow Cs lead for the day. F* that.

I do get the gist of what you're suggesting though, and I have been trying to find other people to hang around with on match days. So far it has been so-so, getting a new group to hang out with isnt that easy, but I'm making an effort to do so on my own.

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

What I would do is go back to doing one on one things with A.  He's a friend and this arrangement sounds more like activity focused than a friend group - you're hanging out together because of the game and the pub not because you're close friends with them.  How often do you chat about personal stuff in between games?

Also I don't blame them for how they behaved when you were late.  I'm a person who is always timely barring a true and very rare emergency and it sounds like your expectations when you were late because of laundry were unrealistic.

I'm hoping we can do more stuff together again, and he has shown some more interest in it after I brought up the issue yesterday (starting up a quiz team again, joining me on bus trips etc.). I'll find out how sincere it is though, since last time I brought it up he said he would stick around at the pub with me for a bit longer, but has since reverted to hanging out mostly with B and C.

Apparently they chat about personal stuff in that group, but I haven't been a part of any of that talk. For instance, B is having a child in a few months, which was completely unknown to me up until last week (he shows zero interest in talking to me anyway, not looking at me while we talk and generally acting superior and cutting things short).

You're misunderstanding about "being late". Yes I was "late" in the sense that I came 1,5 - 2 hours early, instead of the usual 3 hours. But that is irrelevant, because we usually went to the game 30 minutes ahead of time, meaning that I could have gotten at least an hour of time with them. But suddenly C wanted to go much earlier, so much so that I could barely get to talk to them for five minutes before they left. Thus I got no real heads up about our new "schedule". Apparently C has since wanted to go early every game, and what really annoys me is that he is now suddenly calling the shots. Neither A nor B are really into getting in there early either (its really boring once inside anyway), but they're following C around because he's now apparently made himself into some sort of leader. Which annoys me, because in my head this is a group thing.

First of all, thanks in advance for reading through this and any input you might have. 😊

Me and a friend (lets call him "A"), used to be pretty tight and have over the years since college been quite a lot together on our spare times, and even travelled a lot together abroad. For years now, we've been talking about getting into football (or soccer as Americans call it) and supporting our local team more on a weekly basis. So last year, we did exactly that and started going to more and more games.

In the beginning it was quite fun, and we went together on all games. I knew he wanted to get more deep into it, so in the beginning I made an effort to scale things up. I ordered bus tickets for us (supporter buses, generally very loud, crammed with fans and beer) in order to get us more ingrained in the millieu and making new aquaintances. On one of these bus trips, I met another guy ("B"), who seemed quite nice, and the three of us got together on the trip back and exchanged contact information for future games. Next game, we met a friend ("C") who A knew from work. This was fine as well, and we started to have contact with him as well. The next games, me, A and both B and C got together in the pub before games, and it seemed like we had a nice thing going.

Now fast forward a few months until last autumn, and I was a bit late for a game because I had to finish my laundry (well not exactly late, I was gonna arrive at the pub some 1,5 - 2 hours before the game like usual). But while texting them on the way, it was made clear to me (especially by C) that they were gonna leave because they wanted to get the best stands at the game, and that apparently required them to leave almost 1,5 hours early to walk to the stadium and get in early. So when I got there I got about 5 minutes of being able to say hi, before A, B and C left for the stadium. Meanwhile I was stuck there with a beer and noone to talk to. This felt really bad, because noone had told me that beforehand, and especially regarding A (who I've known for years), I felt that it sucked that he now suddenly had chosen to join B and C instead of sitting down to have a beer with me. I also told my friend A about it, and he showed some sympathy and would stay around the next time so that I wouldnt be stuck alone at the pub.

Now fast forward a few months again until winter, where we went to a couple of games. It was freezing at that time (-10 degrees C), and I got really cold in two games to the point that I went to the toilets during halftime to warm my hands up. Now apparently that was funny to C, who over the next 4 months kept cracking jokes almost weekly at my expense and asking whether I had brought warm clothes or gloves this time (this was early spring). It was fun for the first 2-3 times (heck, I can take some flak), but after that I started getting tired of that old joke, which was definitely made on my expense and did not seem to stop.

Then some two months ago, C (who was the one who wanted to go 1,5 hours early to games) again wanted to go early to a game, and since I didnt care to argue about it (even though I personally prefer waiting until 30 minutes or so until the game begins so that I can socialize at the pub) I went with them. I managed to get first through the gates while A, B and C were faffing about, and thought that I'd get some good stands (which is why C wants to go early). The place got crowded, but I did manage to get some good stands by chasing others away until A, B and C came... or so I thought. C was complaining during the game and after about how bad these stands were, and that really annoyed me because I had gotten those spots, and I had gotten them because they were somewhat late through the gates.

Then there is B, the guy I got to know initially on one of our bus trips. For some reason we dont bond (which is fine by itself), but he acts very superior to me every time we meet. He hardly looks at me when I talk to him, and his whole body language shows that he is not interested in keeping a conversation with me.Meanwhile, B lights up when talking to A and C, and seems quite interested to socialize with both and chats with them all the time on messenger.

Last week was the last straw for me. I work right next to the stadium, and C texted a few hours early and asked how the weather was. So I went out to check, told him it was generally warm, and that I would be keeping some seats for C and B until they could get to the stadium. Well they never bothered to come by even though I sat there for like an hour looking for them, and apparently they had just gone somewhere else without telling me, and then headed into the stadium without letting me know (my original friend A could not join us for this game). Later during half time I saw B and went over to say hi to him, but he basically just exchanged pleasantries with me for like 10 seconds, before "having to go" (to be with C). That part sucked as well, because I had already tried to meet them before the game and I felt I wasnt worth the time to talk to during half time even.

For the last couple of months now, I have made a somewhat conscious decision to not be with B and C, and instead travelled on my own to away games (taking the bus alone). This is where things get kind of sad for me though, because I have told A about how I dont feel that I get along with B and C. I have also asked if he wants to go on more bus trips with me for the away games, but he prefers to tag along with B and C (who are driving). Obviously I cant make him choose me over them (and I wouldnt want to have him make the choice either), but it sucks hard that I now basically have noone to go with (apart from some other people I've met, but its nothing solid yet). I felt that this was supposed to be something that me and A were originally doing together, but I also feel that C has taken some sort of leadership in the group, and that he is now calling the shots and where A and B seem more than willing to follow. I personally really dislike friend groups like these (with a "leader" that calls the shots), as I prefer groups where everyone's interests are taken into account. I feel like mine are definitely last on anyone's priority list. And so I've told A that I wont be joining B and C anymore, and it looks like he is drifting over to their side in the future. Which is the situation where I'm at in the moment.


I dont know if this was coherent for any readers of this wall of text, but I am hoping for some feedback nevertheless. Have any of you experienced something similar before, in a friend group? How would you go about it?

Depends on country. In Norway its not that common for men to pay (thank god), but as a more traditionally minded man (which I guess is somewhat rare here), I do occasionally pay. It depends a lot on whether I actually liked her or not, and for someone I'm not that into I would probably just offer a coffee. I wouldn't necessarily ask for her to pay after that, but I wouldn't protest if she took her part of the bill either.
A big plus for me is if the woman offers to pay "the next round", as that signals that she's not feeling entitled for me to pay for everything. Just offering to do so is a plus.

On 1/9/2024 at 5:40 AM, ShySoul said:

For starters, don't worry about the "friendzone." Either something more happens because a connection was there, or it doesn't. Being a friend is a good way to get to that something more and has worked well for you so far. And if something more doesn't happen, it's because it wasn't suppose to happen and not because you were being a friend. 

Yeah I don't subscribe to the "friendzone" either. I believe it's a myth created by the belief that some people have that "you can get anyone to like you if you change your behaviour to X/Y/Z, and if you are friendzoned it means its your own fault because you didnt do X/Y/Z", thereby assuming that people can be manipulated into liking you as a romantic partner in the first place. Humans are not that simple, and mutual romantic interest stems from a whole lot more than just one party's behaviour towards the other. Meaning that if one is "friendzoned", changes are good he will remain there anyway if she doesn't see him as a romantic prospect to begin with.

You should probably give us some more context here, as the lack of information here can only give you very general answers (which are less likely to apply to your individual case).

On 1/5/2024 at 4:23 PM, smackie9 said:

You will never be able to travel outside the country for vacations or anything.

Off-topic perhaps, but you definitely can. Countries usually don't share these sorts of records with one another, so the only way they tend to learn about your felony is if you voluntarily list it in the application form when applying for a visa. Me and a friend went to China a couple of years ago, and he has a criminal record (nothing big, tax evasion mostly), and we considered listing it on the visa application form. We opted not to, and as expected, there were no consequences since Chinese authorities would have no way of knowing anyway.

Depends on what he was convicted for ("a fight" can mean so many different things in practice, even if the law views it differently), and whether or not this indicates a pattern. Talk to him about it and try to find out more perhaps. I personally feel that there is too little information to base any advice on in this case, details are needed. Genereally I'd personally be wary of someone who is convicted, but that doesnt mean that he is automatically disqualified from being a good guy.

Just an example: For all I know the fight in question was one where your boyfriend got provoked first and they both participated in the fight, yet your boyfriend got a "lucky" punch in that knocked the guy unconscious and gave him a concussion. Even if the law views that as some sort of assault and convicted him accordingly, I think most guys would agree that while it was unfortunate that he got knocked out, the first guy had it coming. It can however also mean the complete opposite, that your boyfriend picked a fight, escalated on purpose or used disproportionate violence, which is a different thing altogether. Hence you should try to uncover whether or not this is a pattern.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that this is solveable with good communication between the two of you.
Your reservations against marriage (being the centre of attention, and the financial part of it) are understandable, but you are not listing anything here that states that you are against marriage in principle.

Have you talked to her about the possibility of having a small wedding, or even just getting married through filling out the required paperwork, without actually having a ceremony? For all we know, maybe she just wants the status of a marriage, without requiring a full on ceremony and big party. In that case there is room to navigate here.

As for the prenup, talk to a lawyer if that is your main concern. That you "have heard" that they might not be water tight is irrelevant, if that is your main concern. Talk to someone who actually knows this legal field and find out what's what, again assuming that this is your main concern.

The fact that her child is 8 is quite telling in my opinion, because to me that looks like neglect, or, assuming that her living with her grandparents is a thing in Asia, a very odd prioritization.

My ex's sister had a breakdown some years ago, and it caused all sorts of odd behaviour (diagnosed bipolar), especially in relation to her kids. She would just head off and live with her boyfriend, cause all sorts of drama and neglect her kids, where the kids at got no heads up and over night had to stay with grandparents and even us for a short while, depending on who had time to take them in. Her sister instead prioritized her boyfriend and picking fights with her parents, whereas her kids got no attention. Very bizarre.

15 minutes ago, Carus said:

As a quick update I've just had her young daughter texting me asking where she is.....

So I've actually sent a message now saying I hope she's ok but please talk with your daughter because she still needs you*

So nevermind......

I wasn't gonna reply here until I saw this message.
This sounds very odd however.
She might have had a mental breakdown or similar, hard to say, but not keeping her daughter in the loop before you is extremely odd and could even be neglect depending on how young she is.

How old is her daughter? Below 18 by any chance? And are they still living together, and does she have custody over her?

13 hours ago, gamothen said:

Is this behavior normal or is she texting someone else?

Ask her what's up then.
You can hypothesize all day, but it won't get you any far.
This is what communication is for.

15 minutes ago, YouAreNotAlone said:

Couple of days ago, after classes, she was going with friends for a coffee and I assumed I was not invited as no one told me, so I just walked away. Minutes later she calls me and tells me: "Where are you going?! Won't you go with us???"

Doesn't mean anything, so stop overthinking it as you say.