RuedeRivoli

I'm a bit confused when you said I spent time gathering evidence for myself. What evidence are you talking about exactly? Asking a question to a colleague on a process is sneaky evidence gathering now? You have the timeline completely wrong and are making inaccurate assumptions based on your unrelated previous experience. A month ago, I simply asked more experienced colleagues if internal audit conducting an audit on an ongoing project is the normal process because I joined the company less than 2 years ago. I asked a question to literally two people and the team lead. That's it. That's the extent of my "investigation". I don't understand your point at all. It takes 1 minute for them to confirm whether this is normal process or not. I don't understand how I particularly "took up their time" when I simply asked for clarity on a process. I asked this question way before this whole debacle happened during the conference call and way before I requested a meeting with the manager. The meeting wasn't even in sight at the time at all. The reason why I asked was because I had received the observations from audit and was taken aback by the fact an ongoing project was being audited. That's when I asked whether it was normal procedure for audit to audit ongoing projects. It was a simple question that literally takes no one's time and I think is a fair question for a more recent joiner. There was no ulterior motive or me trying to collect evidence for a call that wasn't even on my radar then. The meeting request came as a result of the conference call debacle. I simply want to address this specific project. There was no "evidence collection" whatsoever aside from me retrieving all the email trails pertaining my work I had stored in my local drive (like a normal employee would). I think you're not looking at the timeline right and you're also making incorrect assumptions. Please don't try to utilize the background I'm giving against me. I requested constructive advice, not assumption-based judgments (you also come across as quite aggressive, just saying).

Thanks. I don't work with her directly. I work with other senior managers on projects (who report to a different person), but she is basically overseeing my team from a hierarchy standpoint.

Thanks. Before I raised the issue, I cross-checked with various people in the team including the senior project manager. They all advised that indeed, the procedure followed my internal audit this time around is a clear deviation from their usual process & it was later on also escalated by another party (more senior than I am). I certainly would have never raised this point regarding the procedure if I hadn't cross-checked with various parties, team members and even my team lead first. I did some preliminary investigation beforehand. It's not my style to go around complaining or criticizing other people's work without solid evidence. As far as doing little talking at the meeting... I'm the one who requested the meeting to discuss the results, provide some background and insights and overall discuss the next steps. So ultimately, I will have to do the talking since I'm the one who instigated it.

My point is, she could have approached the situation differently (I won't tell her), but I believe the below approach would have been more professional: After she receives the results from the audit, she should have reached out to every staff who has a deficiency under their name to explain and give some background. (And yet, she goes on during the call about how she has no background on how these deficiencies happened, but she never reached out in the first place - just made assumptions). Once the above is done, she could have easily shared the results and hid the employee names, just leaving the project name. The point of the audit was to find out where the deficiencies lie, not to hang people out to dry in front of their peers and make them lose credibility. The people whose projects were part of the audit also receive these results personally, so there is literally no point for her to show the names and plaster people the way she did it during the call. It's absolutely unnecessary. She wasn't angry by the way. There was no anger there whatsoever.

Someone more senior is in charge. I have no visibility over their timelines. I hand over my work to them and they do the upload. I cannot do the upload myself as they need to contribute with their inputs before doing so. Despite the fact my part of the deliverable was sent across to this person on time, they failed to upload it. I have no involvement in this and based on the procedure, I'm not in charge of chasing a lack of upload. It falls within the remit of the senior project lead. These documents never get uploaded on the same day of completion because it is not how the process works, unfortunately. If it were my responsibility, I'd upload it on the same day, but it doesn't work like that due to the various procedural layers. Again, I can appreciate an oversight, but if something is outside my control and it is unfair to claim my work was not done. I'm not the type to be confrontational or to argue at work or anywhere in real life really, so I'll be fine on this end 🙂

I think you're not understanding the issue here. The problem isn't the fact my name was in red. It's the way she presented the results without getting background information first and the fact that she pointed out an incorrect observation under my in front of my whole team without addressing it with me first. It's one thing to present results, it's another to "accuse" someone of not having done the work on the basis of mere observations that were not cross-checked adequately.

The issue is not yet fixed. The issue isn't that I did not show my work or didn't upload it on time. It's not an oversight in any way shape or form. I can acknowledge an oversight, no issues. Your comment seems to point to the fact that this may have been one, which it wasn't. The work was done, but technically, the upload into the system can be done at any point during the project until the last day before the relevant project file is closed in the system. Internal audit picked an ongoing project at a point in time where we were still uploading documentation and automatically claimed the work wasn't done because it wasn't in the system yet. Again, we still had a good 3 months to upload into the system as there is no specific deadline for this. Additionally, I'm not even in charge of the upload - it falls within the remit of someone more senior. Where there were deadlines, we met them all. It's a case where internal audit prematurely came to conclusions without even cross-checking with us and try to get an offline copy of the work instead. Internal procedure was not abided by as they should not audit open projects because of this specific issue. Additionally, this manager knows the work was done. I had all email trails and written evidence it was done. This was communicated to my team lead and this manager before this call. I might not be there to change the process, but I am there to escalate an issue when there is a deviation to a policy (which in this case, it was confirmed by various parties before I even escalated on my end).

Hi all, I was in bits yesterday, but decided to seek some advice today as I have a feeling my team lead's manager is out to get me for whatever reason. We were on a team call yesterday and she decided to share the unofficial findings of an internal audit that was conducted on a few projects. Not the final results, the initial findings which internal audit had communicated only to the intended stakeholders involved in these projects. Nevertheless, she went ahead and shared them to the whole team during this call, even to those whose projects were not part of the audit sample. As the sample for the audit was poorly put together, they picked an ongoing project of mine (which goes against procedure as they should only audit closed projects). The remarks raised by internal audit were remarks I had already addressed with my team lead and had highlighted as illegitimate as I had written evidence that every task in the internal audit observations were performed according to procedure. It was simply a case of some documentation not having been uploaded into the system yet because the project is still open. Yet, internal audit decided to come to the conclusion something wasn't done because they didn't see it in the system instead of inquiring about it first and marked it as such in their report. During said call, the team lead's manager highlighted the deficiencies and my name in bold red as example of where deficiencies were found. The whole team saw my name in bold red during the call and assumed I didn't do my work because the spreadsheet stated: "XYZ not done", which is not the case at all. She pointed at this example (with my name next to it) and said: "For instance, this wasn't done" (not the case at all, again I have written evidence it was done and even highlighted the inconsistency of the audit observation to my team lead). Instead of doing what a manager should do - get some background information with the concerned staff and wait until the official audit results are released before broadcasting the results to the whole team, she took internal audit's observations as final and broadcasted them. It's a complete breach of compliance to broadcast this at an individual name level and made me look bad in the process because I did the work and internal audit did not conduct a clean audit. She humiliated me in front of everyone and made me lose credibility even in front of the most incompetent people in my team, meaning no one will want me on their project and won't help me on mine anymore. The worst part is I had raised my concerns to my team lead about the audit being conducted outside of the regular procedure. He said he'd discuss it with his manager (the person who presented the findings), but it turns out he did nothing or she wasn't receptive. I have a feeling she did it on purpose and have never been humiliated like this in 7 years of career. I have a call with her on Monday to address my concerns on the audit, but I wonder if I should politely advise her she made me feel highly uncomfortable? Thanks.

Hi all, I'm a bit on the fence as to how I should proceed. I found an internal role I'm perfectly qualified for (as in, I tick all the boxes). The role was posted yesterday and I started my application. The policy states you should inform your manager of "your search before you receive a formal an offer". My manager is OOO at the moment, so in any case, I will probably apply before informing them. My worries are: People are leaving the team for internal roles, but they have no problem replacing them. My issue is our local team is small (only 3 of us) and it might be an issue when trying to move (as in, they won't have anyone to cover). If I get rejected, the manager will think I'll try to move externally instead, but it's not the case. I've been with the company a year and a half. It's just the prospective role is really interesting and something I've been meaning to pursue for ages (plus, it's an upwards move which would bring me back to an acceptable level for my years of experience). I'm worried they might use this against me to get rid of me if I don't get the role (not probable, but I'm paranoid). My current role is also changing in the sense that they're now integrating a new team which will handle a portion of our current responsibilities. We'll only be left with the "menial" tasks starting next month. It's part of the reason why I want to move on, but it's obviously not the reason I'll use when speaking to the manager. The company is huge on internal mobility and they promoted this every day. Tons of people have left our team for an internal pursuit, but I'm worried. What would be the best course of action? Thanks.

I agree, she definitely dug and buried herself in her own hole. In all fairness, every since this "fallout" happened on Friday, I've been feeling like a dead weight has been lifted off my shoulders. The anxiety and annoyance I felt when she started texting me at 7am after ignoring me is now gone. I believe the reason why I found it "difficult" to cut her off was because she's insecure and portrays herself as this fragile person, so I felt sorry for her. The issue is that people like her are often not as naïve as they portray themselves to be. She definitely took advance of my "niceness" and the fact that I allowed her to just talk about herself all the time. This is not friendship though. I agree, friends are people you can have fun and laugh with as well as be open enough to talk about anything. If somebody only approaches you with the same specific topic/complaint every single time they talk to you, then you should question the nature of this dynamic. I'm not often used to being direct or saying "no" to people, at least not anymore. I've become far less assertive with people in the last few years out of fear of confrontation or hurting them. The truth is, when someone disrespects you or sees you as a mean to an end, they already don't care about your feelings, so why should you care about theirs? I need to learn to stop feeling guilty when I tell or cut someone off for genuine reasons. I have this tendency to be assertive then feel guilty about it and apologize. I literally apologize for anything and everything. It wasn't until a few weeks ago when I asked myself why do I even keep apologizing? When you always apologize for no apparent reason, people like this girl see it as a weakness and pounce. As harsh as it may sound, it felt good that I for once took a more assertive approach in my relationships to say no say I can't help you. It's a stepping stone for me. I normally just ghost or keep giving people chances because when I act assertive, I always feel guilty afterwards. I didn't this time around though because my mind was made up weeks ago and I just needed the push to call it quits. I agree on the fact that my thought pattern is highly codependent. I want people to like me because of the way I was brought up. Because I didn't get the "love" every child deserved, I was trying to surround myself with just anyone who seemed somehow decent even if they showed little interest in me, like this girl. However, it is far best to enjoy your peace alone than have parasites like her who project their stress and problems upon you. Of course, if this were a genuine friend, I'd 100% be willing to help, but if the relationship is one sided, it will always be the same. Genuine friends are hard to find but I strongly believe the good ones somehow appear once you've cleared all the toxic and rotten ones from your basket. If you keep the toxic/rotten ones around, you'll only attract flies. It somehow felt liberating to take control and end this "acquaintanceship". I know now I can put my foot down when necessary. I sincerely appreciate everyone's input as this is what gave me the courage to actually action this. I probably would have gone down the same circles had I not asked for your advice.

So, after my message yesterday, I ended up blocking her because I personally didn't want to deal with her anymore. Since I had already removed her from my WhatsApp contacts after she ignored me in public and had removed my "last online" visibility months prior, there was pretty much no way she'd know I blocked her. The only give away would be the one check on WhatsApp if she responded (one check could be due to your phone being off or out of range etc as we all know). Anyways, fast forward, she went ahead and removed me from her LinkedIn contacts first thing this morning. I didn't even think about removing her from my contacts because I personally do not care. She wasted no time when for what we know, the non-delivery could be to my phone being turned off. Next time, she should think twice about ignoring someone in public after they politely helped her out and the suddenly reappear like a flower asking for "advice" after utter disrespect. It doesn't work like that. That's how little minded she is. She clearly is not conscious of her actions. I bet she has no clue why I suddenly went cold, but then again, I think my response was polite enough, not confrontational. I have to say, she really negatively impacted my week, but who cares. She might even bad-mouth me to common "friends" and say I let her down at a moment where she needed advice the most, but again, if she cared about me, she would have contacted me at times other than when she needed something. Those common "friends" we had already warned me about her and they were right.

Hi everyone, I really really appreciate all the advice given! Sincerely, this is some of the best advice I've received in a very long time! This morning, I decided to listen to her audio messages just to make sure of what I was going to say. About a month ago, my former employer announced some redundancies. I was about to reach out to her then to check on her, but on the same day I was going to do so, I ran into her and she ignored me (referring to the episode in the OP). I therefore held off and decided to just move on. Anyways, in her audio, she told me about the redundancies and that they're affecting her department, but she doesn't know when they're due to take place (realistically speaking, the company is known for announcing redundancies but taking more than 6 months or so to action them). She said "I don't know if you have heard, but there are redundancies" then she went "this is not the point of my call, this is not the main point or an important point at all as a matter of fact". (I need to specify she still has a job and doesn't know when the redundancies will happen, it won't be for a while). Then she said: "So, I went for an interview and the company ended up offering me the role but I am making them wait on purpose, so I am not giving them an answer". Then, said the following: "So you were right, just because I didn't get the job at your company, doesn't mean I burnt bridges. This was true because they reached out to me out of the blue for the role and I already had a first interview and the interviewer was really happy with me. They're scheduling a second interview. The company is a really big company obviously. So, the purpose of my call is for you to give me feedback on this team I will potentially join". OK, so first of all - she asks me for feedback on a team I have zero interaction with. I don't even know who they are. The company employs more than 2,500 people locally and has various sub-functions. This one is not related to mine at all. How on earth would I be able to give her feedback on this team? Secondly, I am pretty sure she applied herself because I know the company and went through various hiring processes with them, they never reach out to candidates out of the blue. They might hire an external recruitment agency, but an internal HR representative reaching out to people randomly is unheard of. I've asked around and most people I know have proactively applied, including me. They have so many applicants, they don't need to reach out to anyone proactively. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. She got rejected from a role two months ago and that remains on record, so I doubt they'd be reaching out to her so quickly after. Again, I could be wrong. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Then she talks about the position offered by another company but doesn't mention the company nor the position. I seriously can't give advice even if I wanted to because it is incredibly vague. Whilst I feel sorry her department might be going sour, this is something that has been hanging over their heads for years. That said, while I feel sad this is happening to her, I still can't forget she ignored me in public and suddenly reaches out to me for me to give her feedback because she needs it and needs advice. It's bizarre. She didn't even ask if I know anyone in this team or if I've worked with this team, she just said she wants my feedback on the team. She knows I started working remotely and I'm still remote, so it's not like I could suddenly network with someone randomly. In any case - I politely said: "The job sounds interesting. Unfortunately, I don't have any dealings with this team, so I can't advise at all. Best of luck!". Perhaps I should have shown a bit more sympathy given her current situation, but she's still employed and she already has an offer on hand on top of not knowing when the redundancies will hit, but she will nonetheless have a decent severance package. It's not like she's going bankrupt. I was already annoyed that she ignored me in public to bombard me suddenly now that she wants advice, I didn't think much of it and I simply acted a bit short. It hit me afterwards I should have sympathized a bit, but again, she never asks how I'm doing and all our chats have been about her, so why would I bother, I don't know. Perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way and judging harshly, but from this pattern, she only talks to me when she's interested in something.

Thank you, Cherylyn! It's an incredibly insightful post full of truths! Oh yes, I've heard of energy vampires and actually, I was thinking about how much of an energy drainer she is. As LaHermes said, you have to be of a certain character to start hassling someone at 7am. I'm completely drained today when I was absolutely fine before she started texting me. I suddenly have a headache from this whole story and I've been thinking about this a lot. That's what energy drainers do and you wind up thinking about their actions and words all the time. They derail you from what you're supposed to focus on to bring you into their drama. Thankfully, we don't work together anymore and haven't worked together in more than two years. She's simply seeking to join the same company now which quite frankly, is not to my liking at all. However, if she ends up joining, I will treat her as I treat any other colleague, with respect but with some distance (boundaries). You're right. One needs to stay from people like this. She doesn't seem overly stable. She portrayed a different side of her at work because obviously one has to act somewhat professional. However, the minute I left that job and we started chatting outside of work, it turned into a different story and more so in these past few months. I believe her issues go far deeper than just having a few insecurities, clearly. She does not need a new job or a referral, she needs therapy because this cycle of hers is going to keep on repeating. I grew up with a parent who unfortunately displayed some signs of mental instability and it is also part of the reason why I can sometimes attract such types and that's also why I said I'd feel like the "toxic" person cutting people off. This parent had a tendency to stop interacting with whoever even dared to say something that wasn't exactly what they expected - this would take the form of ignoring people (me) for days on end and no apology would work. Hence, the fact I feel odd when I cut people off even if they clearly are toxic because I fear I'm repeating this parent's pattern, when the situations are completely unrelated. My family is estranged from single person they know including their respective families and I ended up cutting them off. I feel as though I'm repeating their pattern when I cut friends off, when again, the situations are unrelated and different altogether. Friends and family are supposed to elevate you, not bring you down or try to get something from you at every turn. Unfortunately, it is a pattern I know far too well. In any case, this "friend" is not allowing me to grow or elevating me in any way shape or form. "You will attract good friends in your life even if it takes a while. Patience is key. Psychologically sound and empathetic people attract alike minds. In the meantime, learn to be secure within your own skin, focus on your health, interests, hobbies, sports, etc and you will attract those who share your similar lifestyle and mindset. During your quiet moments, it's better to be alone than lonely with wrong people in your life. " The above paragraph is one I will hold on to because it is so very true. I was doing quite well this week after weeks of feeling low, trying to keep busy with work, running my 5ks again, diving into future plans etc... Then, she kept texting me at 7am and my anxiety started kicking in because it is so unnecessary. I'm one who absorbs people's energy quite easily and her needy energy makes me feel anxious. I hope I will someday find my true tribe with like-minded individuals who respect boundaries and value friendship over opportunistic pursuits.

Thank you! It's definitely a lesson learned for sure! I spent time writing the referral letter (because to refer an external candidate, you need to write a comprehensive referral letter). You're right, I shouldn't do it anymore though. I've realized I've become a "yes, yes" person in the last few years (living with roommates and having zero contact with my family triggered this trait out of "fear" that if I stand up for myself, everything will fall apart and I have no one to fall back on). It's definitely time to regain my power and start setting boundaries and distance myself from those who are not good for me. I can't attract people who are on the same wavelength if I keep energy vampires around. As they say, you need to let something go to get something better or new. The same way I part ways and donate clothing that no longer suit my personality, the same should apply for relationships that are void of any meaning or purpose.

Thank you. I was thinking of ignoring at first, but perhaps a cold response is better. To be honest, I was thinking of saying: "Sounds like an interesting role. Unfortunately, I won't be in a position to provide a referral at this time. However, feel free to apply if you want. Best of luck with your search". If I tell her the referral remains on file for 3 years, she'll keep bothering me every single time she finds a role that tickles her fancy and will start applying randomly using my name as her referee. I simply want her to stop thinking she can use me as a permanent referee for roles in this company. She's clearly not clued in.

Haha, she is already driving me mad and she hasn't even set a foot here. I'm hoping she finds a job somewhere else. I don't mind referring people at all, but it depends on the person's attitude. If the person engages in negative self-talk before and after the interview and tell me "I'm sure I won't get the job". Then, what's the purpose of asking me to refer you? I think she needs to stop searching for a job and work on herself first instead of relying on people to repeatedly refer her because it's the easy route. To be honest, I originally thought she was well balanced. That's why I befriended her (I was her buddy when she first started working for my previous employer). Then, as time went on, I started seeing through the cracks, but it wasn't as bad. Yes, she talked about herself, but I had a decent social life, so I didn't care much and always kept her at arms length. These past few months have been downright eye-opening. Today was certainly the cherry on top. I think next time I should trust my gut more and certainly recognize the signs as soon as they emerge instead of discarding them.

Thank you SherrySher and LaHermes! These posts are incredibly insightful. I ended up reading her message, but didn't listen to the audio. So, these "urgent" audio and texts at 7am pertain to yet another role ad my company posted and she wants to apply. This role is more senior than the one she got rejected from two months ago and she has no relevant skills at all. She has a serious kind of audacity to the point where she forwarded me the job spec and went on a tangent about how she wants to apply. It's now crystal clear she only reaches out to me when she wants something from me (either a therapist, a career advisor or a HR intermediary). She is under the impression I will keep referring her repeatedly because I did it once and therefore now starts coming up with random roles at my company thinking I'll refer her again. She seems to be obsessing over getting a role where I work. My stance is I referred her once, she sabotaged herself before and possibly during the interview based on the negative talk she's been giving herself. There's no way I'm referring her a second or third time around. She had her shot and didn't make the most of it I'm sure. Talking negatively about yourself before and after the interview is a sure way straight to failure. The truth is she is just draining me at this point and her motives are clear. I'm not getting anything from this friendship nor am I growing. In fact, I am regressing because I don't feel as though I'm dealing with a (stable) adult. On the contrary. A friendship should be a two way street, not just one person trying to drag the other person up. She's clearly an opportunist and I now understand why she has not been able to find a new job in close 3 years. I've been dealing with her job talks for three years now and it's the same story every time. She needs to also ask herself why she gets rejected after every interview instead of asking me to refer her multiple times. It's not going to happen. If I keep referring her, I'm also going to lose my own credibility. I'm not angry because I've never regarded her as a "close" friend at all. I'm simply sad that I clearly don't know who to pick friends. Perhaps it's my fear of having no friends, but at this point, it's better than having to deal with such shenanigans. I agree though - life is too short to drain your energy on emotional vampires and opportunists. I'll just ignore her message. I'm definitely done and will go radio silent from now on. She'll get the hint. I don't owe her any explanation as to why I'm cutting her off. She wasn't a close friend by any means and opportunists like this don't deserve a thorough explanation.

Hi all, I think I have reached the end of the road with this "work friend" I befriended at a former job roughly 3/4 years ago. She's always had low confidence and is a bit awkward, but didn't seem to have social anxiety. The biggest issue is that whenever we chat whether in person or via text, she'll just ask me "How are you" in passing as a polite greeting, but starts talking about herself right away. We went out a few times and every single time, it was literally 3 hours of her talking about herself and how much she dislikes her job. We've kept in touch during the pandemic and every single time, it's the same story. She texts "Hi, how are you?" then doesn't ask any question about me and goes on a tangent about herself. She reached out to me two months ago for a role in my current company, I happily referred her. Before even getting to the interview, she already was putting herself down saying she won't get the job and that she should focus on studying for some certificate as this will give her results, unlike the interview. I mean, I referred her and tried to reassured her and that's her response. Needless to say, she didn't get the job and started belittling herself afterwards. I tried to once again reassure her, but she wasn't really receptive. Two weeks ago, I was returning home from my run one morning when I saw this familiar face slowly approaching. I quickly realized it was her. At that point, I hadn't seen since early 2020. She was approaching together with her boyfriend and when she walked past me, I looked at her and smiled hoping to stop to socially distance greet her. She looked at me, looked down and then looked away. She kept looking away as she was walking by. I was shocked. I don't like small talk either, but when you haven't seen someone in such a long time (someone who took time out of their day to write you a reference for a job and put you in touch with the hiring team), the least you can do is nod and smile. I didn't particularly want her to spend 10 minutes talking to me, but just acknowledging me with a smile or a wave would have been good enough for me. After this incident, I deleted her number (but didn't block her). She suddenly remembered my existence yesterday, so she WhatsApped me. She didn't even apologize for running into me and ignoring me or anything. She sent me a message at 7am saying "Good morning, how are you?". I hesitated and left the message unread until 9pm. I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. I responded "Good, thank you. How have you been?". Then, her response was: "I have a few things I'd like to share with you, can I use the audio note?". I of course said it was fine and she bombarded me with 5 audio messages this morning at 7am, which I haven't listened to yet, but I saw a text that said: "That's the role" which I assume relates to her audio notes. I mean, I understand she wants to talk, but bombarding people at 7am isn't really necessary. Every single time we talk, it's always "Hi, how are you", then doesn't bother to ask anything about me and goes on a tangent about how she wants to change jobs blah blah. It doesn't matter if it's text or in person, it's the same story. The "how are you" is clearly not genuine and only used as a greeting since she never asks anything about me. I haven't listened to her audio notes yet and I'm seriously contemplating leaving them unread. She saw me face to face, didn't acknowledge me, didn't bother to apologize via text and suddenly bombards me at 7am every day because I assume she needs advice. I'm annoyed. I don't want to sound like a bad or harsh person who cuts off every single friend they have because they did something that wasn't pleasant, but I don't think I'm crazy when I say she takes a lot, but gives nothing in return. I'm all for helping and giving advice, but it has to be a two way street. Right now, I feel more like a therapist than anything else. I don't know if I'm the toxic person who cuts everyone off because they did something "wrong" based on my standards or if I simply don't know how to pick genuine "friends". I'm baffled. I don't want to be a doormat, but I don't want to be too harsh either. What should I do?