Male/ Female Double-Standards

[OceanEyes]

Looks are meaningless.

 

No they're not - it's a natural human instinct to be attracted to another person through their physical appearance at first. Physical appearances have been very important to me whenever I've chosen a boyfriend. Not because I'm shallow, but because I actually need to feel attracted to someone physically at first. Personality and character is what is truly important, and more important than looks in the long run, but I doubt I would ever get to know a guy that intimately if I didn't find him attractive in the first place. Physical appearances are what attract you to a person in the first place.

 

Also remember - physical beauty is very subjective. What may be beautiful to me, may not be beautiful to another person. The stereotypical, Hollywood-produced images of "what's beautiful" are not necessarily the prototypes to base your judgements on.

[drahcir]

--thats very right!!!! what is beautiful for one person is different to what is beautiful to another person. I remember in one of my English classes studying a tribe in South America where the guys all wear make up and nice clothes and then go out into the city to "have a night on the town" while the girls are all doing physically demanding labor and sweating away. LOL. Yes it can be very subjective.

 

For some people what first attracts them to someone is their appearance, though thats not true for me. I really don't know why I am attracted to some girls and not to others. I remember one girl i really instantly liked and she had no beauty what so ever (atleast to me)....yet i was instantly attracted to her...i just felt she was very warm....very caring.....and i captivated and drawn in. I would for sure be willing to fall in love with a girl who I thought was not at all beautiful.....Would i date a girl i thought was unattractive...of course!!!!! and of course i would date an attractive girl too. There is no biological basis for being attracted only to people we find beautiful. Like some psychologists have suggested that we evolved a liking to attractive people because we believed they have better genes--but to date those same scientists have found NO relationship between attractiveness and health of offspring. thereforeee there is no biological basis for only liking people we find attactive. For me, I would have no problem dating someone i never found physically attractive.

 

Some people have also suggested that its natural for men to sleep around but not women, because men need to "spread their genes." Having studied sociology and biology, I know this is nonsense. No species succeeds by males having offspring through numerous females and not being there to take care of them. The offspring of animals that reproduce like this are usually eaten by other animals, or simply die off. ITs not an adaptive reproductive strategy. The point is, that there is no biological basis for why men would be "studs" but women would be looked down upon........and thats why i think such a double standard doesn't exist. Of coures everyone has a right to thier opinion, and i hope i am showing respect for other people's opinions. I am sorry if i am not>..i really want everyone to have thier say.....

 

"Also remember - physical beauty is very subjective. What may be beautiful to me, may not be beautiful to another person. The stereotypical, Hollywood-produced images of "what's beautiful" are not necessarily the prototypes to base your judgements on."

[al7]

Are men and women "equal"? Yes, but we're still different on many levels. Our communication styles are different, our bodies are different...but that doesn't justify double standards.

 

I think society is slowly easing up on some of these double standards, though. Yeah, they still exist, but no where near as bad as they used to be.

 

I am not sure if society is easing up on them. For example:

a) in the are of dating women have far more advatnages than men:

men have to approach women, come up with somehting smart to say, face rejection. Be upbeat after 101 woman says "No thanks".

Women do not have to do anything of those: just filter out guys.

Isn't it a huge, multiple advatange women have? AND this is not going to disappear...obviously women do not women to forfeit this just cuz we want to be equal.

 

b) Most women are still EXPECT men to be a) taller than they are b) a bit older or of the same age c) earn more or about as much as they do.

The thing is no one knows what rationale women have behind these preferences...We know it all comes from the times of cave people, all right, though how about now? There is no sense to still prefer exactly the same things that were useful in the era of caves...

Not that women have an advatange here, no. But men are put to disadavantge: they should satisfy these obsolete requirements.

Is it going to be disappeared? I do not see any trends in that direction yet.

[OceanEyes]

al, you tend to have a somewhat bitter view of women and dating altogether, and perhaps this is because you've had a few negative experiences over the years. Who hasn't? You seem to be grouping ALL women into the same category and generalizing characteristics. Based on what you've said here, I can list several "expectations" that men tend to have of women:

 

- That the woman is shorter than they are. Being 5'9, I've met a good amount of men who aren't as tall. We're ALL different sizes, just find someone who suits you.

 

- I read a statistic that stated that a woman has a much better chance of getting married if she's slim.

 

- From my experience, men expect attractive women to be friendly and open to their advances when approached in public. But, if you consider the number of men who have said the exact same things in the same manner, are you really surprised that she doesn't open up her arms to you right away?

 

- Some men assume that if a woman is nice to him, talks to him over the phone, or agrees to meet him, that she must be interested in him romantically. I think most men here can tell of at least one experience in life, where this couldn't have been further from the truth. Sometimes a woman is interested in a man's friendship, but realize that it isn't possible.

 

I've never 'expected' a man to approach me, or to entertain me in any way. I'm not saying that all women have this same mentality, but a good number of women I know personally, do. If I am interested, genuinely interested in a man, he will not have to work that hard for attention, because I will be happy to give to him of my own free will.

 

b) Most women are still EXPECT men to be a) taller than they are b) a bit older or of the same age c) earn more or about as much as they do.

 

A) You're right, I do want a man who is taller than me. What's wrong with that? We ALL have a right to find certain things attractive. I'm not going to put you down if you expect a woman to weigh less than you do. Heck, I wouldn't even blame you! There are certain things that are naturally esthetically pleasing or comforting to us about the opposite sex. We all have a right to have certain standards, both physically and mentally, and that doesn't make us shallow.

 

B) You are also right, that I prefer a man to be of the same age or a bit older than I am. Again, this is very simple biology/ psychology. What would I have in common with an 18 year-old guy? Or a 50 year-old guy for that matter? My ex-boyfriend was 27 when I met him, and after being with him for a year, I could really see the age gap. We had different ways of thinking. Now that I am with a guy who is my age, I find that there are rarely issues, that we appreciate the same humour, share similar values, and are both at similar stages of life. It's about compatibility. If a 20 year-old and a 38 year-old can find love and get along, great! Happens every day. However, it doesn't always work out that way.

 

C) Money is not that important to me. It goes without saying, that I do like any man I date to have some money, but it is of little importance whether or not he drives a certain kind of car, has a VISA platinum, or a huge bank account. All I really care about, is whether or not he has enough money to take care of himself, and to be able to go out once in a while.

[al7]

1. You are right in your observations: I am no sweet here.. well, I just keep in mind that we are not supposed to be bitter in real life, and if we any sign of bitterness we gotta go talk to a friends or shrinks.

Well, I talk here...

 

2. Not really. I alway say: most women, I just point to the most likely trend among most women. Sure I cannot say "all women".

 

3. It is true.. somewhat. Men do not prefer shorter women, men do prefer women who like them. I mean women set thi standard of height, and men just follow it. If a woman is taller some men would be scared that she would just find a better, a taller guy...

 

4. Absolutely right. I agree. (Personally I don't like slim women, but it is just me, statistics are trully different)

 

5. I think you are right.. It is hard to come up with something creative. Really hard. Did you get my PM?

 

6. Sure. If a women state that it is just a friendship and pay for herself, it is fine and men should not think about romance.

But what is she just doesn't say anything, let him to pay for her?

 

7. Hmmmm... let me ask you: honestly how many men you have approached? Maybe it boild down to statistics again: how many men approched you and how many men you approached.

 

B) I agree with what you said. Just I was not able to get why

if a agy say 26 and she is like 29, she look at him as if he is some sort of a deficint man... oh well, it happens, and happens often. In fact I would say it is almost a mainstream.

I am not thinking it up: these are facts: I have seen many online profiles,

and about 80% require somebody older, at least by a couple of years.

Why is that? again some unexplainable attracting thing?

 

C) You are very unique than. Again based on what I have seen in terms of income preferences inonling profiles, about 70% of women want their man to earn significantly more than average income. It is just a fact. I am not even adding to it anything.

[Cecelius]

This pretty much sums it up for me: generally, in my opinion of what I prefer and in my experience, women who end up with the rough hook up stories often have some level of immaturity or something missing in themselves. While I wouldn't want to judge them for that (though I don't know what judging means -- we're not talking about stoning) I don't find a girl with that kind of emotional profile attractive to date, and thus would not generally (with deference to the idea that there may be other factors). The rougher the story, the more I tend to think the girl has emotional issues, lack of self-respect, low self esteem -- these are not attractive on anyone.

 

Secondly, again, I don't understand the vilification, hatred or judgment of wanton women, but it is natural for all people to go with something a little more singular and less common. Frankly, so long as there is someone out there who seems to have gotten around less, that person will be in demand. This I think is why women participate in this double standard as much as they do.

 

How many hot 18 year old girls do you see flocking to go out with the "nice guy" who has a long history of confessing his love on the second date? No one ever values anything that was too easy to get. It is not authentic. I agree completely that a girl electing who she sleeps with is no big deal, and to the extent that she sleeps with a lot of people, it is very much not a big deal to sleep with her. Most men, just like most women, are looking for some theoretical big deal. Saying that people ought not have a preference on this point is a little like saying that people ought not have preferences for physical features.

 

Of course, the devil is in the details. I don't understand insecure men who are afraid of a girl who's not a virgin, and I don't understand people who are upset with a girl for a few boyfriends, a few college hook ups, etc.. At some point, I agree, the points above ARE covering for some kind of insecurity.

 

Also, a few last thoughts:

 

1) Most men don't really care about their pals scoring, but if they congratulate them, my sense is that it's a little like the same kind of congratulation a group of older, unmarried women give to their friend who just got engaged: 4 parts appreciation, 1 parts insecure jealousy...

 

2) I don't know that it is a double standard. As I noted before, most girls with some adverse history usually have some kind of insecurity or self esteem issues. Generally, men with these same issues will be as quickly passed over as dating material because they are perceived as too nice or too needy or too weak (not manly enough).

 

3) Men don't get this visited on them because in general, no one (including women) really values male chastity.

[OceanEyes]

7. Hmmmm... let me ask you: honestly how many men you have approached? Maybe it boild down to statistics again: how many men approched you and how many men you approached.

 

C) You are very unique than. Again based on what I have seen in terms of income preferences inonling profiles, about 70% of women want their man to earn significantly more than average income. It is just a fact. I am not even adding to it anything.

 

Answer to #7 Well, let me just say that I rarely, if ever approached men with the intention of starting something romantic (when single). In my experience, my only successful relationships have started out either by:

 

- Meeting a guy through a mutual friend. There is no better way in my opinion. In this case, I wouldn't actually be "approaching" a guy, but letting things develop on their own, and starting with friendship. What could be a better reference than meeting a guy through a friend? And just so you know, if after I get to know the guy and I am interested, I WILL pursue, call him and let him know that I am interested. I have no problems with chasing if I genuinely like a guy.

 

- A friend, past colleague (I wouldn't date someone I work with), fellow student, etc. This way is also very good, because it gives you a chance to know someone on a purely friendly basis first. You can really get to know someone when your relationship starts off on friendship; a basic respect and lack of expectations.

 

When you say, "how many men have you approached", where exactly do you mean? Bars/ clubs? Coffee shops? The mall? If so, then I doubt that I have ever just walked up to a stranger and introduced myself, with the intention of getting a phone number or a date. I don't believe in meeting potential boyfriends this way unless some kind of conversation is struck naturally. It's not that I feel that 'I don't have to initiate', but I just think that walking up to a strange guy and creating some kind of uncomfortable conversation is somewhat unnatural. Plus, being female, I've been around long enough to know that you never really know who the person is. And, to be completely honest, I doubt that I have ever responded well to a man who has approached me in this fashion either. We don't know you, but we DO know what you want. It's not fair to judge based on the fact that women don't like strange men hitting on them; it's biological for us to be a bit skeptical of strange men, just as a man would say that it's biological for them to be on the lookout for new sexual partners every 10 minutes.

 

Response to C I see nothing wrong with a woman being interested in dating men who make as much money as she does, but to actually have the nerve to say, "I will only date men who make a lot of money" is probably giving you more than enough information about her.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong here, but I find it tough to believe that 70% of women are only interested in a man who is making mega-bucks. Perhaps the online dating dynamic is a bit different, but when I look around me - real life - I don't see any of my attractive, financially-secure girlfriends dating rich men. All that seems to matter to the women I know, is that he has a job that pays the bills, and maybe a little extra for those 'little things' (not diamonds, but seeing movies, dining out once in a while, occasional vacations, etc.).

 

For example, a girl I've been friends with since elementary school became a pharmacist at 25 years old making $85,000 + bonuses every year, and is still choosing to date a guy who is a mine-worker and barely pulling in $30,000 a year. One of my best girlfriends in high school is a provincial sales representative for General Electric. The last time I spoke to her, she said that she was earning a lot. Her fiancee? Still an apprentice electrician who makes about $200 a week. SHE has been supporting HIM for the past year.

 

I'm telling you this because I think that it's unfortunate that you have these opinions of women. I think if you gave them a chance, a real-life chance, opened your mind a bit and stopped fussing with 'statistics', you would realize that we're not all cold-hearted man-eaters who are after your wallet. Maybe it's because I was brought up in a small town where the tradesmen vastly outweigh the professionals, but what is really important is that we find someone who loves us, and will stand by us, regardless of what they do, or how much money they make.

[al7]

I hate this double-standard. I still hear my male friends referring to women who jump into bed with guys as tramps. However, they'll go out on the weekend and sleep with the first girl who will have them, and the other guys will pat them on the back? In this day in age, why can't women sleep with who they want and not have society judge them?

 

Why is it, that when a man makes a bold advance towards a woman that he's considered romantic, but when a woman does something similar, she's considered clingy or desperate?

 

OceanEyes,

 

You cannot have eat your cake and have it too, agree?

If you support some positive things from double standards for you,

that means you gotta bear with negative things for you.

We figured out together: you do not approach men and you are not willing to give in here and start approaching men (for various reasons).

It is very cmofortable for you I agree to get to know men through friends etc. and basically doing nothing in term of thinking how to approach a guy or face possible rejection from him. It is a positive part of double standards. If there is a plus there should be a minus.

So if you do not want to get rid of your bonuses I do not think you would expect to get rid of negative sides of doubles standards.

It should be fair.

 

Make sense to you?

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

This is my opinion: I believe that full equality has already been achieved between males and females and that there is NO double standard. We are all completely equal. Fully equality has been achieved and there is NO inequality.

[al7]

This is my opinion: I believe that full equality has already been achieved between males and females and that there is NO double standard.

 

Step out of your nice vacuum: dating is full of double standards.

[OceanEyes]

We figured out together: you do not approach men and you are not willing to give in here and start approaching men (for various reasons).

It is very cmofortable for you I agree to get to know men through friends etc. and basically doing nothing in term of thinking how to approach a guy or face possible rejection from him. It is a positive part of double standards. If there is a plus there should be a minus.

So if you do not want to get rid of your bonuses I do not think you would expect to get rid of negative sides of doubles standards.

It should be fair.

 

Make sense to you?

 

The reason that I do not approach men is because I have been in a relationship for almost two years.

 

Forgive me for saying so, but men I know who have been successful with women do not always find ways to argue with them, or to point out how much 'easier' they have it than men. Perhaps it's your attitude that is keeping you from meeting good women, not their expectations being too high.

 

I am not going to apologize for not being overly forward with men, which is what I feel you are looking for here. I do not just approach strange men out of nowhere because I am uncomfortable with it. I will not justify this any further.

 

4. Any of the above. But thats fine we already figured out you DO NOT approach men. I do not mind at all.

 

5. I doubt that. Why the heck she needs somebody with that amount of money? To feel she's got a prestigious bf? What a low thing!!!

I also dislike men who are bragging about their gf: "Look, how pretty she is". It is a personal matter, it is no ones concers how pretty she is or how rich he is. am I wrong? Please correct me.

 

6. If she earn a lot, she want him to earn megabucks.

Hrd to believe? Please, the proof is just second away: go to link removed,

search for women with income like 75k and above and see what kinda income they want in their dates. there is even more than 70% of such women. So instead of no believing just go there do check youuself!

It is not on Mars, it is just a click away from you.

 

7. Haha. You think their relationship will last? I bet whatever it wont be for a long time.

 

Response to #5 Any person, not just a woman, has a right to say, "hey, I've worked hard to get where I am and to make as much as I do. It would be great to meet someone who is COMPATIBLE financially". It's not low.

 

Response to #6 I find your 'tone' somewhat condescending. All I've been doing here is trying to help you out, and to open your mind a little bit. If you're going to base your life, and personal opinions, based on statistics read on an internet dating site, then I fear you may be in for some serious disappointment. There is a whole world out there OFFLINE that I live in every day, I don't need some text on a computer screen to proclaim my destiny or to help me form my opinions.

 

Response to #7 Again, I find your tone negative and patronizing. And yes, I do think it will last, because it's based on something REAL. I don't think that you even want to believe that there are women out there who are down to earth and good-hearted. I am not going to keep trying to convince you, because it's obvious that you have your mind made up already.

 

8. We don't know numbers "A lot" and "a little" may mean different things for different people. If you can come up with numbers we would talk.

I did, my fact book called "link removed". Check it out.

 

I don't need statistics or numbers to tell me about real life al. I live it every day. I can't debate this with you any further, I feel I've done what I can to help, but you don't seem open to advice or new ways of thinking. In fact, I feel that you are more concerned with proving me wrong than actually hearing what I'm saying to you. It's your right to feel, think, and act as you wish.

 

Good luck with whatever path you choose.

[al7]

1. I am sorry we are talking about double standards here. Men do not have that preference at all "I want her to earn as much as I do" in fact they, men, would rather prefer her not to earn much.

 

2. So what? I find your tone parentlike and a bit crabby. so what? It is fin with me.

 

3. Well, since I do online dating only (I do not know any women offline to ask them out) I told you about my onling dating experience.

Sure offline life should be a bit easier. I agree.

Still something tells me that people onlinf and people offline basically.... are the same peopel, aren't they? Just they are more picky online.

 

4. So what? It is negative all right but not patronizing.

I would rather appreciate you answering my pm with that kind of critique: I asked for the critique there, in pm, but you give me it here where I didn't ask for it at all.

 

5. Dont think if she earns much mor ethan he does would bring a lot of happiness. Eventually she will start to think "Who is the breadwinenr here?" which do not lead to anything good. Just my opinion.

 

6. Ok, you think online dating is not somehting you should consider ok, I do not mind. Would a real life survey from a psychology book make more sense?