the TRUTH and then LIES

[neva_black_n_white]

hey everyone.

 

1: when is preventing someone from being hurt then turned into a lie?

2: or does it always start of as a lie

 

3: only i see different posts and people have different view as to what extent is no longer the truth. so if theres so many options then what is a lie and what is the truth?

 

4: when is it that we start to hurt people from not opening up ocmpletely?

 

thanks

kel

[benchwarmer]

I think you started to answer your own question. #4 looks an awful lot like an answer; take out the first 4 words. At least it is a probable answer to your problem.

 

Truth is not easily defined. Many books have been written on that subject. Check one out. It might fascinate you. And if you're already looking for truth, you might as well check out the fascinating ideas first.

 

But, alas, we are bound, at least temporarily, to limited knowledge of our world and selves. A lie, for me, is a malicious act. We all say crazy things; we all say wrong things. Maybe the question to help you in your quest for truth is "Why?".

[Athena]

I think there are many dynamics to your question.

 

"When is preventing someone from being hurt turned into a lie" is not really a logical statement. Preventing from someone from being hurt can encompass a lie or it may not.

 

A lie is a very defined element. Webster defines it as such, "an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive" and deceive means, "to give a false impression".

 

So you can reword it as, "an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to give a false impression."

 

To me it's black and white. A lie is a lie. You can rationalize WHY you are LYING, but that does not change the fact that you are lying.

 

So, for people who lie to "protect" others, their statement really should be, "I lied to him because I did not want to hurt him." There are some people who will accept that as reasonable rational for lying. There are som that will not.

 

-A

[bb13]

I think that any lie is wrong. Even if it saves them from being hurt at the time, it may and probably will come back and hurt even more. It may hurt more to know that you were lied to than to hear the unfortunate truth.

[neva_black_n_white]

hey everyone, thanks for what you put.

 

you all had great opinion coming from different angles based on the same outcome (it made me understand things a lot better).

 

and yeah i guess i did kind of answer the question with #4. great point!

so is this like under all circumstances were talking? not even a small (and i mean a very small degree) that it is ok?

 

(i havent done anything needing this answer, just sometimes theres situations that people really dont want to hurt others with).

like i was lied to (when i was younger) about the reason my nan died but then i was told. i guess age can come into it, or do you think not?

 

kel

[bb13]

I don't think that anything that could end up hurting someone should be lied about. It doesnt really matter if you say you can bench 300 when you can only do 200, or that you had a salad for lunch when you had a burger and fries. Those lies make you look better but they wont really end up hurting someone if they found out otherwise. There is still no real point for these lies either tough so I stick with my original conclusion.

[benchwarmer]

Without much information, I would not suppose an answer to your specific problem. But I'll give you an extreme example of when I might lie to someone to help them:

 

I'm being robbed in my house, with a gun to my head; a friend comes to the door and asks to come in. I would probably tell them an excuse, a lie, to make them leave.

 

There are less extreme examples I could give. But the point is to give love to the people around you. If everyone did that, there may be less reasons to lie. We have been given many abilities in life, it is ok to use them. But the question must remain "why?". Lying can be a dangerous weapon to play with. And it is a weapon, make no doubt.

 

I am an actor; I play with lies all the time. But as an actor, I know that to truly be able to pretend or lie, I must have a clear hold on my truths. And ultimately, even acting, the art of lying, is actually about the art of telling the truth.

 

We all lie, in many different ways. In a convoluted way, wearing make-up or saying "I'll see you later" is a form of lying.

 

And it isn't a lie, when I say to you...

 

Have a nice day. It's been fun talking about this.

[benchwarmer]

I should say it is fun talking about this. I didn't mean to imply an end to this thread.

[neva_black_n_white]

Those lies make you look better but they wont really end up hurting someone if they found out otherwise. There is still no real point for these lies either tough so I stick with my original conclusion.

i understand what your saying there, its as if, whats the point in saying something that requires no lie anyway, i mean what would you gain? in your example, all you would be doing is extending your own boundries and just seeking praise since you are not capable of doing what you first set out to say. so why not be proud of what you already do.

 

i think thats right?

 

and yes i understand what your saying with your example benchwarmer, far fetched bu i get it. i mean sometimes theres a need to lie.

 

but i think the question is, is that a white lie, black lie?

 

or are there no way of getting around it and you have lied?

 

so is there any levels at which we work on that are fair, i mean bb13 sticks there ground on every lie being a lie, yet i think benchwarmer has a point.

 

if you have no intent of hurting and it benefits everyone, is it now ok?

 

is there such a thing as avoiding the truth and giving minimal information, or even denying what you know?

 

 

kel

p.s. dont worry about what you said, i usually respond anyhow lol