Cure of Ars

Cure of Ars .... I don't mean to say who is wrong and who is right. But if you read the book of Romans .... salvation is really not about us meeting God's standards ... because if that is the case .... YOU are going to HELL ...

You are right in the that we are not able to earn heaven. No amount of work I do can equal heaven. So there is no way to deserve heaven. If I were to try to meet God's standards without his grace there would be no doubt that I would fail. But once I receive God's grace and become a child of God then my actions can have merit. Heaven is by grace alone. It is an unearned inheritance in the family of God. But if I do not work in the family of God by the Graces that God has given me then it is possible to forfeit the inheritance of heaven.

You mentioned about the verse when Jesus said .... "be perfect because your heavenly father is perfect." In this verse, if you are taking into context of an achievement in Holiness to attain a state of perfection that God can accept us, then NONE of us will go to heaven ....

By God's grace we can and before we can enter heaven we have to be made clean and perfect because "nothing unclean will enter" (Rev 21:26) Santification is a process.

But rather, when we are told about Holiness ... it is referring to Jesus. It's Jesus in us that makes us perfect ... not our good deeds. Because Jesus had fulfilled God's law of Covenant thru Blood and forgiveness once and for all .... we then, can enter into God's covenant to accept Jesus into our lives and "Be Perfect". So to be perfect is not about us .... it's about Christ.

I agree except we have to participate in God's grace. We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12-13)

Romans spoke about Righteousness as being a Gift .... NOT an achievement. (Romans 5:15 - 17) But because it was the early Church ... and for most conservative doctrines, many bible interpretors cannot accept the fact that Righteousness cannot be attained. Everone wants to be part of the reward ..... no one could accept the fact that they can't do anything at all to attain perfection. Where in the first place ... it is received rather than attained.

It's both, First we receive God's own life through grace and then we are able to do Gods work and merit. This is why Romans also talks about rewards;

God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. (Rom 2:5-8)

God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom 8:3-4)

I am one living example ... when doctrines which pushes me to discipline didn't work .... but doctrines of Grace changed me forever. After Christ died .... man no longer need to work .... it's God's work .....

Your right, but we still need to participate in his grace.

Hence the key to living a Christlike lifestyle ... is NOT trying to meet up the standards of God ..... but to appreciate the death of Jesus by reading the bible and meditating on his word. In this case ..... there is NO Guilt involved!

You are a brother in Christ but you are mistaken. The Bible does not teach that we should not try to live up to his standards. The Bible teaches the opposite.

"So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

The way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his command ments. Whoever says, "I know him," but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps his word, the love of God is truly perfected in him. This is the way we may know that we are in union with him: whoever claims to abide in him ought to live (just) as he lived. (1 John 2:3-6)

Guilt like physical pain has its purpose. It tells us when somthing is not right and when we should change our behavior. I am a social worker and work with some people that never feel guilty even when they hurt people. These type of people have antisocial personalities. I'll keep my guilt just as long as it's in touch with reality.

 

Some also believe, but also have different thoughts. Even Cure of Ars quote or statement on chastity could be interpreted as allowing sex between these two individuals provided they engaged in such actvity with each other's best interests in their hearts.

 

 

Well kind of. There is no such thing as safe sex. Making love is very powerful. Sex can kill and it can also bring life. But it is never really safe. There are always consequences. Something as powerful as sex needs a life long commitment for it to be loving and the power contained in a healthy way. In a way it is kind like fire. Fire can give us heat, cook our food, give us light but it also can burn our houses down and kill. If you set your living room on fire there is going to be problems. But if you light the fire in the fire place then there is no problem. The power of making love needs to be in the context of a marriage to contain its power in a healthy way.

 

Another point. Biologically we have a universal language built into us. If you go to China and they smile at you, you know what they mean. If you go to Africa and they frown at you, you know what they mean. Same goes with sex. Sex has meaning. It says to someone that I am willing to make a commitment to you. I am willing to allow the possibility that our love will be in-fleshed and become a person. I am willing to lay down my life for you for the life of our children. It says, "I love you". But if you say anything less than what it means then you are lying with your body. With to many lies then sex becomes a lie. Then when you really want to say "I love you" with sex it wont be able to because you distorted the truth with lies. Just like if I went up to you and smiled and then punched you. The next time someone smiles at you its going to mean something different, like duck. So unless your willing to say with your body, "I am committed to you for the rest of my life in marriage then don't say it with your body because it's a lie.

 

I'm not telling you this stuff because I'm a stick in the mud. I'm telling you this because it's the truth and I want you to have a healthy marriage and a healthy family. Making love is a sacred act and it is worth waiting for. Think about what I said and pray about your situation. God bless

He didnt ask what the bible thought of it. He wanted to know ways he could make it better for his girl. Stop preaching. Did it ever occur to you that not all of us believe in God?

I didn't quote the Bible. I find it funny that your preaching at me to not preach.

If you really love your girl and if you really are a man then you would wait until you are married.

"What's chastity?"

 

Chastity is a virtue (like courage or honesty) that applies to a person's sexuality. It means that you take all of your sexual desires and order them according to the demands of real love. For example, when you love a person, you make whatever sacrifice is best for them and you do whatever is necessary to keep from harming them. Chastity means that you take this definition of love and apply it to sex.

 

Some think that chastity simply means "no sex." But that's abstinence: focusing on what you can't do and can't have. Chastity is what you can do and can have, right now: a lifestyle that brings freedom, respect, peace, and even romance—without regret. Chastity frees a couple from the selfish attitude of using each other as objects, thus making them capable of true love.

Beliving in God will come down to personal preference.

 

Why Thiests shouldn't critize the Athiests

The problem truth

 

 

It comes down to the simple question

 

Why do you even bother living your life?

 

Some athiests say,

I have meaning in my life. I get meaning when I watch a beautiful sunset, when I compose a poem, when I read a good books or accomplishing something great. I see meaning when I love my wife. I don't need anymore meaning. I have a million sources of it.

 

And this is COMPLETELY fine to me. They place ultimate value on these things. But I don't.

 

when I see sunsets I see the scattering of blue wavelengths out of sunlight via Rayleigh scattering. When I read good books and watch good movies, I too enjoy them, but I also know that these feelings are products of psychological connections that I make with the movie. When I accomplish something great I realize the joy is derived from my ego and a psychological fact about male autonomy. When I love someone it?s due to serotonin, endorphin, dopamine, and many other chemicals.

 

So like Kierkegaard I need something "I can live and die for". And there is nothing in this world that I can live and die for. In the end we are just quarks, leptons, and messenger particles--that's it. I PERSONALLY need something more than that. But I don't expect an athiest to by this reasoning. (I'd like to think that she would be disturbed by this reduction to just particles, but I respect someone that places values in things like dopamine levels.)

 

But heres a neat little catch. Why would it even matter if I believe in God or not. Some athiests are almost as bad as fundamentalist Christians. We are just quarks, leptons,and force carriers--that's it. So what if I was wrong about god. People seem to think that truth is the ultimate thing out there. Because if I'm wrong. It really didn't matter if I believed in God or not. (This is not Pascal's wager.)

 

Why Thieists shouldn't get on the athiests

The problem will

 

This is one of the hardest problems in philosophy. There isn't any free will really. Who you are is constrained by:

 

You're parents, genetics and external factors. Why do you think blacks are more likely to go to jail? Why do you think those who are bipolar are more likely to kill themselves? It has nothing to do with free will.

 

Everything thing that has happened to you in the past up until this point. The athiests will be athiests, the theists will be theists only because they saw the world in this special way. Take an athiest and put her in a thiests body from birth. Do you really think that after having all the experiences of a theist that they would actually "choose" to be an atheist.

 

Free will is the hardest thing to defend. The scariest thing is it MAY go deeper than that. Quantum Mechanics perdicts a probabilistic future, it's not all predetermined. But it may very well be that what you do--which is what goes on in your brain--is COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on what happens at the quantum level (or at least physical laws). So what you do is determined by these laws, but not by you. (Sorry I didn't explain that well)

 

But the catch is that. How can God hold an atheist blameworthy for somehting that was out of his control. The black man killed becasue he grew up in such a horrible environment. The guy killed himself because he was bipolar. The

 

And the atheist didn't believe in God because he had no choice. Everything in his past told him that this was the right thing to believe in. How could God hold someone like that guilty? He was only believing in what he thought was true. Humans make mistakes. But why would he deserve to go to Hell? He didn't do anything wrong.

Do you agree with this statement and if not where is it wrong.

If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true...and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms." (Possible Worlds, p. 209)

Masterbation isn't exactly sex though. You kind of need more than one person in order to have actual sex. Masterbating is healthy & good for you to do. Sexual urges are perfectly normal things to get & its good that people can turn to pleasing themselves instead of just doing something stupid like just have sex with a random person.

Here's an analogy. Sex is kind of like duck tape. Sex is meant to unite a man and a woman, in love, to make a family for children. Just like tape is meant to stick things together. If you take your duck tape and stick it to a lot of different objects before you stick it to the thing that you want it to stick to for good, it is not going to stick very well. If you fold the duck tape over and stick it to itself, it's not going to be as sticky. Same thing happens with sex. If sex is used for anything less than for love, then it will weaken it's expression as love.

Another point. Biologically we have a universal language built into us. If you go to China and they smile at you, you know what they mean. If you go to Africa and they frown at you, you know what they mean. Same goes with sex. Sex has meaning. It says to someone that I am willing to make a commitment to you. I am willing to allow the possibility that our love will be in-fleshed and become a person. I am willing to lay down my life for you for the life of our children. It says, "I love you". But if you say anything less than what it means then you are lying with your body. With to many lies then sex becomes a lie. Then when you really want to say "I love you" with sex it wont be able to because you distorted the truth with lies. Just like if I went up to you and smiled and then punched you. The next time someone smiles at you its going to mean something different, like duck.

Sex is a sacred act. It is the act that brings the gift of life into this world. We should treat it as if it is sacred. Not cheapen it.

Of course everyone has different beliefs though. Some people think its horribly wrong, while others just think that its completely harmless & only normal. We are all entitled to our own opinion, & everyone in this world will never agree to just one side of the argument. So it really just comes down to what you think, if you think its ok & harmless, then thats what it is.

Just because people do not agree does not mean that there is not truth.

I hope you at least consider what I am saying. I want you to have a healthy attachment to your loved one and a healthy and strong family. God bless

No offense taken. I could flush out what I said in the proceeding post but I would just be restating what I said in a different way. So I'll just leave it alone. It was good talking to you. 'The truth will make you free' (John 8:32). God bless

"Boundaries give freedom because they provide safety. I am free to go crazy within the boundaries of my faith without having to worry about falling into a ditch. This is liberating. " That is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard, and trust me, I hear a lot of it. You can have your dogmas and restrictions, but NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, a restriction will always be a restriction. Nothing about a restriction is liberating. How could it be? It is restricting you, This is a pretty fundamental concept. Now comes a new fresh heap of BS at the end of your post. This one, has some truth to it, so I cannot give it the #1 award.

Let me ask you a question. There are two people. The first is in a strange country in a busy city and the street is full of cars. He is trying to drive somewhere but there are no rules or regulations on how to drive. Everyone is just trying to get where they want to go without following any set rules. Another person is in the U.S. in a busy city and the street is full of cars but everyone is following the law. Who is freer to get to where he wants to go?

Here are some quotes to show my point.

"Art consists of limitation. The most beautiful part of every picture is the frame. " ~G.K. Chesterton

"Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." ~G.K. Chesterton

"If you draw a giraffe, you must draw him with a long neck. If, in your

bold creative way, you hold yourself free to draw a giraffe with a

short neck, you will really find that you are not free to draw a

giraffe." -- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy

"Some people never hear truth…"

Speak for yourself and good luck with that Satan thing.

Are you kidding Cure? At first I thought you were, but now I'm not so sure.

No joke.

The problem with Catholicism is that it prescribes Church dogmas that the individual is supposed to believe without questioning.

The Catholic Church does not discourage questioning.

Dogma's are necessary to any meaningful world view. For example, science has the dogma that the physical universe has order. If you go against this dogma then you are not doing science anymore. In the same way, Catholics have dogmas so that people can know if they are in line with Christ's Church. Boundaries give freedom because they provide safety. I am free to go crazy within the boundaries of my faith without having to worry about falling into a ditch. This is liberating.

However, in countries like this, a less repressive religion could allow people to develop their spiritual side more deeply.

From my experience, developed countries are less spiritual than poorer countries. From what I see, Americans care more for what type of car they drive than about trying to connection to some transcendent spiritual reality. I think it is a general rule that poorer people are more spiritual. They are more in touch with the reality of dependency on God.

There is no doubt anymore that sexual repression has caused a lot of bad things in the world.

I deny this premise. We can dive deeper into this discussion If you like.

I must say that yes, I am against any system of belief that does not respect the individual's freedom of thought.

"Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." G.K. Chesterton

I believe that imposing a religion on children constitutes a trespass against their freedom of religion. When they are 18 yrs old, then they should be allowed to chose, not earlier.

Children need a wisdom tradition to help them navigate the spiritual life. Giving a child a half-truth is better than giving them no truth. And by not passing on the truth that one finds in life one is neglecting to give a gift that they have found.

God bless

I disagree Cure of Ars, masturbation is an exercise of self-control because frankly we all get the urge to masturbate frequently but we do not give in to that desire because we know its not appropriate to just start in the middle of public.

Ya, making sure that you don't masturbate in public builds some serious character. I'm being sarcastic.

Personally, as a Catholic I'm called to pick up my cross. And this goes further than just when I'm in public. To be free to love, we need to be free from lust. If sex is about me, my stress relief, my pleasure then it is not about love.

Real love is not a feeling, it is an act of the will. It is choosing to lay your life down for another, like Christ did for us. Running to masturbation for fantasyland stress relief and avoiding standing up to temptation only makes you weak. When someone is depending on you, and you're really tempted, you're not going to be strong enough to love. We need to at least try to fight the good fight. God bless

There has been a lot of abuse of power in religion.

Anything that has power for good can also be used for bad. Just because something can be corrupted does not mean that it should not be used. If we could not use things that have been abused in the past for power then we would not be able to use science, government, and family. All these things can be used for evil. But they are not in themselves evil.

Firstly, beware of a religion that does not allow you to exercise your freedom of thought. You must feel free to explore the world with your own eyes, instead of listening blindly to many lies.

I agree we should "test everything: retain what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) My faith does not tell people to listen blindly to lies. I find it funny though that you promote free though but you discourage Catholic thought. I guess you can think what you want just as long as it not Catholic. But I do not call this freedom of thought.

The links that you provided suffer mostly from the "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy. Just because one event follows another it does not always follow that it was caused by it. We can explore this if you wish.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost faith. God bless

Masterbation is hurtful to relationships in this life. Like I said, You cannot give what you do not possess. So, if you do not have self-control, you cannot truly give yourself to another.

Selfishness and masturbation both amount to loving only yourself, which isn't love at all. There are two key purposes of making love: union and procreation (bonding and babies). Masturbation achieves neither, since the center of the sexual act becomes "me" instead of "we." Rather than being in control of sexual desires, masturbation excites lustful thoughts, causes you to expect immediate sexual gratification, and trains you to look to yourself for sexual fulfillment.

Think of it this way: Love is a gift of self. You cannot give what you do not possess. So, if you do not have self-control, you cannot truly give yourself to another.

Though sexual sins are highly addictive, God's healing grace is stronger. Like any other sin, this one can be overcome. Take courage and keep your eyes on Jesus, who will complete the good work he has begun in you (Phil. 1:6)."

My advice would be to pray to Jesus. He always has your back. Also I would try to focus less on you and try to help other people. If want to talk with people go here link removed

God bless

I'm Roman Catholic so I know a little bit about Romance.

First A little History

Romance comes from the medieval stories told to Princess and wealthy ladies. It combined tales of high adventure, with love, and moral teaching. The values of the day were courage, honor, and fidelity. Stories of heroic knights saving damsels in distress were common. Knights followed the Code of Chivalry while princesses followed the rules of courtly love.

Today

Romance has been cheapened a lot. Smut novels come to mind. But in a true sense romance is a sign of commitment that you are willing to laying down your own life for the person you love. This mixed with a little bit of this, "practical romance, the combination of something that is strange with something that is secure. We need so to view the world as to combine an idea of wonder and an idea of welcome." GK Chesterton

I realize that since you brought up the Nazis that means that the conversation is over and you're resorting to ad hominem attacks.. but oh well.

Does this mean you are a Nazi?

Because you are saying that your truth is the best way for everyone. You are saying that people who don't follow your truth have lives that aren't as exciting. That is a shallow point of view. I pity anyone who believes that people who believe differently than they can't possibly have lives that are as exciting.

So the only absolute truth is that there are no absolute truths? Do you believe this absolutely? LOL

I'm sure that, just like you, KKK members believe that their way is the best way.

So you can not say that the KKK is wrong? But you can say that I am wrong because I say that the KKK is wrong? How ironic. How are we to stand up against evil when you can not even say that it exists.

The difference between you and me is that I believe that other people's truths are just as valid as mine.

I don't disagree. The KKK's truth is wrong and should be resisted out of justice.

So for you your beliefs are just as valid as the Nazis and the KKK. And I guess those who believe that it is good to abuse their kids are just are right as you are. Your position is basically "might makes right". Whoever is in power gets to make up what is true. A lot of people can get hurt for this viewpoint. It makes it impossible to stand up for what is right. But I guess for you it is all good.

When, in reality, we all have our own truths.

If we all have are own truths on what grounds do you criticize my truth by say the following, "It's a very nearsighted and shallow point of view to have and I'm sorry that you have it?" Your basically saying all truths are equal but then you say that my truth is wrong and not valid. You're not being consistent. Please explain how you are not talking out of both sides of you mouth?

You also did not answer my question.

I agree but are you saying that all ways of life are "equal"? So if I was a member of the KKK this is just as good an option as if I belonged to a group that fought against racism?

I did not ask you how other people saw their own point of view. I asked you if the KKK's truth was just as true as those whose truth is against racism. Please answer

Right there you're saying that you're better.

I did not say that I was better than anyone. In fact I said the opposite. But I do believe that my faith is true. If I didn't I would not waste my time defending it. But you are saying the same thing to me. That because you see all truths as equal (besides mine) that you are better than me (i.e. not "nearsighted" and "shallow").

It seems to me that you want it both ways. You want all personal beliefs to be true to those who believe it. But on the other hand my truth is wrong.

You feel sorry for me. Well I feel sorry for you. I love truth. I try to submit to truth. If the Catholic Church was not true I would leave it. Truth for you on the other hand is a fairy tale except when telling me I am wrong. God bless

You did not give an argument why Christmas without Christ is not boring. Because I make an argument that your apposed to does not automatically make me closed minded.

 

Have you actually experienced a Christmas with a family without Christ?

 

I have. Many of them. I can assure you that Christmas with my family is far from boring. Family is what matters at Christmastime for us.. Christ has nothing to do with it.

Yep I have. Have you ever been to Christ's--Mass on Christmas?

And I'm saying that everyone who follows a certain path, be it religious or secular, believes that their chosen path is more [something positive] than the alternatives.

I agree but are you saying that all ways of life are "equal"? So if I was a member of the KKK this is just as good an option as if I belonged to a group that fought against racism?

Since you're on a secular path, you obviously believe it's better than the alternatives when, in essense, the only claim that you can make is that it's better for you.

I am not secular but Catholic. You must be a relativist. I believe that there is absolute truth in this world. Our job is not to find a system that fits us but the other way around because we are not the source of truth. We are to try to conform and submit to the truth. If secular was the closet system to truth then I would be secular. But the truth is that secular society restricts the spiritual life of man and because of this it is oppressive. And this is why I made my post, not to say "We are better than you. We have it and you don't". Any good that I have comes from God's grace and if others were give the graces that I have received they would more than likely be more blessed.

I have noticed that Cure of Ars is extremely ignorant in some of the posts he makes, including this one. For instance:

 

And this is why Christmas without Christ is boring.

 

Give me a break man. In that statement you assume that everyone who isn't a devoted Christian has a boring Christmas. The close-minded attitudes of Christians like Cure of Ars is what turns me off to religion in general.

You did not give an argument why Christmas without Christ is not boring. Because I make an argument that your apposed to does not automatically make me closed minded. But you haven't even given me a reason to change me mind. To me it's like having a birthday without it being someone's birthday. What is more exciting, celebrating an anniversary with your wife or celebrating nothing but going through the same motions? The second is not celebration at all. Christmas without Christ becomes about consumer culture. It is just something that you're expected to do because Christians are doing it. It becomes about getting stuff because you do not want to be left out. It doesn't take long before it gets boring. But I would like to hear why you think Christmas without Christmas is not boring.

Also, I would like to thank Mahlina for her post that shows that not all Christians pigeonhole and look down on other types of people that aren't Christian.

 

I am not looking down on people I am comparing different worldviews. I have not attacked anyone personally. I have only tried to challenge people. I have a question. Why is it that when you call me "ignorant" you are not "looking down" on me?

I think that everyone in any subsect of humanity feels the need to explain their life as more exciting, better, whatever. I'm sure that any devoted member of any religion would tell you that their lifestyle was the most exciting and devoted.

 

Personally, I try not to make those judgment calls about communities of people that I belong to.

The argument that I gave is not the best argument that there is. I am not Catholic because it makes for a challinging and exciting life but because it is true. This should be the only reason for following a religious system. The argument can be effective though of getting people past secular consumer culture. My argument is not my religion against other religions but my religion against secularism. I would say that any of the major historic religions would be more exciting than secularism. I am also not saying that there are not parts of secularism that are not good.

I It is also why our society is so depressed and has the suicide rate that it has. Once one reaches the top and gains pleasure and succeeds in avoiding pain one realizes that he/she are still empty and not satisfied. Boredom sets in and after every technique is tried to gain the excitement that a pleasurable activity once had, and this fails, they loose hope. God made use this way on purpose so that we would not get stuck on the creature and search for the creator. Pleasure is good but it is not the ultimate good. We were made for God and we will never be satisfied until we are totally united to Him.

 

I'm glad that you are so involved in your religion and beliefs, however, I do have some issues with your post from generalizations. This paragraph in particular bothered me. I was suicidal while following the christian religion, I attended church every Sunday, went to camp every summer, and even worked at the camp(which was a christian camp) for an entire summer, but yet still wanted to kill myself. My point is, even though I was a christian, I still lost hope of things and now I am not a christian and no longer suicidal. The only thing I find that I am depressed about is the loss of my mother, but that is to be expected seeing she only died 11 months ago. I do not believe being a christian or not being a christian affected my depression, I believe it was a chemical imbalance in my brain and the fact that I was a young teenager who was afraid of her own shadow and the future. Then I grew up quite a bit and realized that the future was not so bleak. Basing suicide entirely on a secular society is not true and, to be honest, is really not fair. I know other suicidal christians. And no, this is not because we don't/didn't have a "close relationship with Christ." Because I was saved, I accepted Jesus as my personal savior at the camp I went to, but that alone did not help me in my depression for whatever reason.

 

I would also like to point out that any and all religions give people a sense of hope. That is why we have religions, that is why people believe in such a diversity because not all religions work for every person. You may believe Christianity works for everyone, but the muslim, jew, or buddhist may feel otherwise. And those that do not have any religion may find hope in other aspects of their lives. I don't think believing in a higher power is the only thing that gives you hope, I feel finding a goal and aspiring to achieve it is what really counts in life. It's not when people lose sight of God that they get depressed, it's when they stop dreaming and/or trying to make their lives better.

 

However, all of this is just my opinion. Thank you for sharing your views though, it is an interesting topic.

 

I agree that I have made some generalizations to make a point. But if I did not the post would have been 500 pages long and no one would have read it. We agree that religion gives hope. The main point is that secular society is less exciting in the long run. What religion are you so that I am better able to find common ground when talking to you?

 

Basing suicide entirely on a secular society is not true and, to be honest, is really not fair.

 

I did not make this generalization. I also did not say that Catholics did not get depressed. Great saints have had depression. St. John of the Cross is an example. Check out his work the Dark Night of the Soul to see how Catholic depression can be turned for something good as apposed to the basic secular depression. I did not say that suicide is entirely secular society's fault. Biology also plays a part. I was just stating the fact that secular cultures have a higher suicide rate because secular society is empty of transcendent meaning. As a Catholic pain and depression can be offered up and united to Christ's suffering for the Church and the entire world (Col 1:24-25). In fact most mystics of other faith traditions do the same type of thing. Secular society does not have the power or perspective to give meaning to pain and suffering for a greater good. It is just viewed as something that sucks and if it can't be avoided that death is a legitimate way out.

 

 

I feel finding a goal and aspiring to achieve it is what really counts in life. It's not when people lose sight of God that they get depressed, it's when they stop dreaming and/or trying to make their lives better.

 

But if achievement, dreams, and goals are the meaning of life and I do not find these things satisfying anymore why not end my life? This is the question that secular society does not have an answer for because they lack something beyond this life and if this world does not satisfy there is no where else to look.

 

If aspiring to achieve is the highest meaning in life then why do 3 world countries have a lower suicide rate than American culture? America is one of the most goal-oriented societies ever in the history of mankind and it also has one of the highest suicide rates ever. How can this be?

 

Also please read this post about the 4 levels of happiness. Your meaning of life answer is only at the level 2. Loving friends and family is a better answer to the meaning of life but this also is not the highest level.

 

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