hannarivers

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

You didn't name any traits other than loyal or caring or funny. So let me ask you...why do you think your boyfriend chose you? What do you believe he loves about you?

I dont understand. Now I should feel bad because I am unlovable? We literally talked miles about me being insecure, why would I know the reasons I am lovable for? 

11 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

What do you feel you bring to your relationship besides how you look? Are you intelligent? Funny? Fun to be around? A great conversationalist? Loyal? Compassionate? Supportive? Educated? Inquisitive? Adventurous?

I am truly loyal. Loyalty makes me happy, I feel good and proud when I dont care about a person who I would say yes to, if I were single. Feels good that I always choose my partner and I would never betray them like this. People say Im funny, and I can make basicly every one laugh. I love to try things that my partner loves. It never was triring for me to do something he wants to do. I am caring, and I love to take care of him, feeding him, cutting his hair, buying him things he needs but would never buy. Taking care of our home feels good, I feel useful. But it I am honest, I dont like me, and I find myself quite unlovable because of all the baggage I have in my soul

13 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But you do know how to act like you do. Fake it till you make it.  If that is how you feel do not date this guy unless you can act as if you trust him and treat him respectfully and like an adult.  If you choose to react to your notions about porn stars by the behavior you described, that is not caring or loving behavior -it's the opposite.  So what I would do is fake it till you make it by reacting to your fears by refusing to act in a controlling way, making yourself not look at any of his devices.  Then with therapy if you can get to the root of these notions of yours and find a way to shift your mindset then the other piece will fall into place.  You do know how to act like you trust him.  You do know how to choose how to react to your irrational delusions. Making that choice isn't easy and requires practice.  If you love and care for him you will show it by doing it.

Thank you. Do you have an advice on what I should tell myself when I get thoughts like "he fancied her more than me" or "he just downgraded his expectations by dating me, because I will never be like those visually pleasing, faking hoes" ? Because these thoughts are exhausting 

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Is this because you're also not experienced or mature enough to communicate in a reasonable way with an adult you're in a relationship with?

Yeah, I was not. 

And I do stop checking. But I am also inexperienced to know how to trust. I dont know how to trust someone that they are not more attracted to porn than me. I know there are women more attractive than me. I quite dont feel more worthy to be desired than a perfectly staged sexual creature, who is a pornstar

6 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

What do you mean "good replies"?  Or "better progress"?  You're still obsessed.

 

By good replies, I meant the ones that were so simply stating the facts about me, I could understand them well. 

By better progress... In 3 months, I didnt make any, because I just ripped more and more peaces out of my heart by searching infofmation about the past. I can make better progress now, that I understood these things : Having a fantasy is not as serious as I thought. Him watching the same thing multiple times does not mean he is into her. I am insecure and this hurts as bad as it does because I only value myself for my appearance. He lied because (and I think it was you who said this, not sure) he wasnt experienced enough to tell me he didnt like my boundary, so he just pleased me by doing it in secret. I was controlling because instead of asking him what he tought of not watching porn, I gave him an order. 

Now that I get these things, it is relatively easier to make progress 

41 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

But earlier you said that you need help to not find him "disgusting and maniac."  

That's extreme.

And you are NOT changing your behaviors; you're still ruminating like crazy about your guy's behavior - and extrapolating it to "how men are."  Erroneously.  

There is no way you can just turn this off.  You might repress it and pretend like everything is ok, for a while.  Same as you can when your shoe hurts and you just try to ignore it.  It's not going to get "okay."  

Your response to his behavior has damaged the relationship already.   

I dont want to just turn this off. I have time. I have weeks and months to slowly change. And he has the right to stay while I do that, if he wants to. As far as it seems, he does want to stay and hope for the process. I wont push my love away if he willingly chose to stay by my side. To be exact, we agreed on a 6 month "trial". If we can solve our problems, or at least make a bit of progress in that time, we are meant to be. And I believe I can make progress in that much time. The reason behind me not making any progress in 3 months already, is that I was still trying to find stuff and ripping the scar open. Now you opened my eyes with a few good replies. So now I think I could make faster and better progress 

14 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

No pornstar is cutting through anything.  You are courting all of this mess and actively fueling it.  Your behavior needs to change, and AFTER that behavior change (only YOUR behavior, not the man's, not men in general) you can probably BEGIN to do some serious work on your triggers.

If you can't / won't change your behavior, you will not be able to become a person capable of having the kind of relationship you describe and that you want.

Your analogy of the "almost perfect" shoe:  Re read what you wrote.  It hinges 100% on the freaking SHOE changing.   It doesn't fit, but wearing it for a month or whatever will stretch it out and then it will be perfect for you.

People aren't like that.  YOU will need to make some very significant changes.  So far you don't seem to even touch this. 

I am thankful, but you guys say the same thing again. I came to get advice on how to change my behaviour and thinking, so I can move on and overcome my triggers - so we can have a good relationship 

21 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes certain people do leave or decrease contact with a family member who triggers them for sure. And he is not your family, he is not your spouse, you don't have children together.  Certainly you can feel like he's family -certain of my close friends I feel that way about.  And if my close friend triggered me I would leave until I could resolve the triggers or greatly limit contact.  I've done that with toxic friends. 

You're violating his privacy and interrogating him and treating him like he's constantly guilty or about to be. That's the opposite of caring and it's the opposite of caring for a family member.  You seem more intense and focused on this porn star than your boyfriend is/was.  It's not fair to him or to you.  Separate and create space and distance and work on your own issues and if you care about him "like family" you'll find a way to get resources and therapy.

These are avoidable triggers.  You also wouldn't work at a place where you were triggered this much so you couldn't do a good job. In your interactions with your boyfriend you're triggered so much you're not doing a good job of being a supportive and caring partner. 

I have to participate in a half hour non-work related phone meeting tomorrow with my husband and two other people -a business matter- where I already know I'm going to feel like I'm losing patience.  I don't want to lose patience.  I cannot avoid this call. 

So my husband and I worked it out in advance -he is calmer about the situation so he will take the lead, I will be polite/say as little as possible and we will inform the participants if they ask questions that we will have to think about it and will get back to them -again to ratchet down any stress/tension.  We planned this -for a half hour call -so that I can provide a polite impression to these people and my husband can do the heavier lifting of interacting with them.  That's called life and adulting. 

You already know your triggers.  Just like in my example (which obviously requires less work than in your situation), make a plan where you minimize -preventatively -exposure.  In your situation since you are acting out and lashing out and mistreating your boyfriend who you say you care about so much -show you care by planning to move out, live separately and perhaps date once or twice a week and when you feel on solid ground with your triggers ease back in. 

You are not showing you care at this point -you're staying because you don't want to put in the effort to create distance so he is treated fairly and with respect.  You're making the passive excuses of "but it's been 2.5 years" and "you don't leave family." I have a son.  I would never treat him -my family - as if he was one of those "boys" who choose their private parts over common sense, doing the right thing, being a good person.

It's not fair of you to regard him as a 24 year old boy and expect him to "change" and you're not "adapting" -you're acting immaturely by violating his privacy. 

My friend's daughter is married to a 27 year old man for 8 years now.  They have 3 sons.  He has his own business and she was his first girlfriend from all we know -they met as teenagers.  They have 3 boys. He is a man not a boy.  He is a good parent and hard worker and provides for his family. 

My father's first serious girlfriend was my mother and they met when he was 19.  My high school friend met her husband when they were teens, married in their early 20s and that was in 1987 -they're happily married. My parents were married 62 years starting at age 21 and 23.

My parents -and my friend -started being mature adults when they became adults. Don't date 24 year olds who you regard as a boy and who has to grow into a man under your tutelage where you treat him as some rebellious teenager whose devices have to be monitored.  Or some caricature of a mom who interrogates her kids.  That's not love.

You dont seem to understand me. I said I want to adapt. Which means I want to accept him and his rutines. Because I care about him. 

25 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Exactly. Just like you can't tell your employer or the general public how to walk on eggshells to avoid your triggers, you can't control his behavior to avoid your triggers.

And this is why I came here for help:) Sometimes you find a shoe that is almost perfect for you. It is in the right color, your favorite style, it will be great for every day use, and the price is a pretty good deal too. Only one problem, the size wasnt seemless when you got home and tried it on. You know if you wear it for a month, it will be perfect, you just have to hang on until that. This is how I feel about him. I love him with all my heart, I love my life with him, and even his bad habits, like his white lies. This is the only mistake he made, and I want to be the one who adapts to him. As a great reply came in "he wasnt mature enough to say he didnt agree with my boundary, so he rather lied to please me". But he will mature, he wont be forever a 24 year old boy who never had a gf, and I wont forever be a girl who is so insecure. I want to grow and mature with him. I want to adapt, and I want to have a thicker skin, on which a pornstar cannot cut through. But I need advice on how to manage my perspective and triggers. 

38 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's true. So you'll need a 2 pronged approach to work on reducing this trigger reaction at work and other places, as well as avoiding avoidable triggers such as living with someone who triggers you.

In one thing I wont argue with anyone. And it is leaving. As I said, family dont leave. An he is my family. We created a life where we learnt so much, and gave so much love. I want to work on the trauma, not him. 

18 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If having him in your life and his habits "trigger" your "trauma", the solution is to remove yourself from the triggers and trauma.

My work place contains triggers. And I cant change my job. Even going shopping holds triggers. So my every day life is full of them. 

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is it his place, your place, or do you co-lease or co-own?  How long were you dating before you moved in? 

Did the problem of you going through his devices and telling him what he can and can't do begin when you moved in?

The solution seems to for you to move out. This way you can make your own decisions as to what you do and don't want in your life and with regard to porn or other people's habits.

Im not moving out, Im trying to resolve my relationship. People forget that trauma comes with a lot of triggers. If Im not working on those subconscious triggers, my whole life will be ruined. Names, even letters, computers, naked women, many things are triggers for me. This wont go away by leaving the person I love the most. And I need to work on this by myself, because as I said, therapy in my country is not cheap, my salary is not exactly high and I can only afford one time a month, which is not enough. I dont care if people cant validate my trauma, I can still feel it is one. I dont have the money for hypnotherapy, so I dont know where to start. 

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Do you live together? Why are you going through his devices? 

We do, now its 2.5 years

8 hours ago, bluecastle said:

So you feel you understand it all now? 

My few cents: There is little here to understand, and that is all that needs to be understood. Your bf masturbated to porn and had a preference when doing so and explained this meant nothing. In this, he is totally normal, healthy, one of many millions of adult men and women on the planet. Nothing to be ashamed about, nothing more to explain to anyone, and generally not things ever discussed.

At some point, early on, you made a demand: no masturbating to porn. Being young and inexperienced, he did not yet know how to say, “Haha—and, um, this isn’t something I ever want to talk about. I think you’re great, but if this is crucial to you I think we’re a bad match.” Instead, he appeased your insecurities, validating them as justified, and probably figured he could just enjoy himself privately on occasion without the fuss, not knowing that you would eventually download spyware to keep tags on his cyber activity.

Because it’s often hard to look in the mirror and say “Whoa! I jumped the shark a few times over!” you instead have clung to a second “betrayal” in his “lies,” while insisting on applying meaning to something that has no meaning. This makes everyone crazy, as has happened here. He’s like, “I jerked off a few times—no biggie.” You’re all, “Just admit to me that you are nursing a feral crush on this porn star and want to have sex with her more than me!” No, he says. Yes, you say. Around and around, with each lap around the track upping the toxicity, to the point that even when he shows you porn and explains it you see ghosts instead of listening to him and hearing him  

And that’s now your dynamic, one where “understanding” is pushing him (or us, by proxy) to agree with a wildly extreme outlook that is fed by insecurities and has no bearing in reality. 

That help with the computing?

Just one thing I wanted to clarify. "Just admit to me that you are nursing a feral crush on this porn star and want to have sex with her more than me!”  I did not just have a thought out of the blue. There were a few things that made me believe it. First, he looked at her insta, so I thought, if this is just a tool, why care? He looked up her age. Again, just a tool? But I just left it like "okay, he was single then, hope he is not doing this in a relationship". Then, when I asked him, he said he did like her appearance. And when I asked him to show me another actress, he said "I didnt like this one, just the scenario", which again made me think that this is too much. 

26 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

So you feel you understand it all now? 

My few cents: There is little here to understand, and that is all that needs to be understood. Your bf masturbated to porn and had a preference when doing so and explained this meant nothing. In this, he is totally normal, healthy, one of many millions of adult men and women on the planet. Nothing to be ashamed about, nothing more to explain to anyone, and generally not things ever discussed.

At some point, early on, you made a demand: no masturbating to porn. Being young and inexperienced, he did not yet know how to say, “Haha—and, um, this isn’t something I ever want to talk about. I think you’re great, but if this is crucial to you I think we’re a bad match.” Instead, he appeased your insecurities, validating them as justified, and probably figured he could just enjoy himself privately on occasion without the fuss, not knowing that you would eventually download spyware to keep tags on his cyber activity.

Because it’s often hard to look in the mirror and say “Whoa! I jumped the shark a few times over!” you instead have clung to a second “betrayal” in his “lies,” while insisting on applying meaning to something that has no meaning. This makes everyone crazy, as has happened here. He’s like, “I jerked off a few times—no biggie.” You’re all, “Just admit to me that you are nursing a feral crush on this porn star and want to have sex with her more than me!” No, he says. Yes, you say. Around and around, with each lap around the track upping the toxicity, to the point that even when he shows you porn and explains it you see ghosts instead of listening to him and hearing him  

And that’s now your dynamic, one where “understanding” is pushing him (or us, by proxy) to agree with a wildly extreme outlook that is fed by insecurities and has no bearing in reality. 

That help with the computing?

This is one of the best replyes I got. Really sums up. Thanks

19 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

So you are ready to move forward and stop demanding he give you answers and stop trying to get him to make you "understand"? 

Nothing wrong with exploring your feelings and reactions but that should be done with your therapist.

Therapy in my country is not free. So I can only afford once a month. This is why Im here. I do want to move on, but I dont know how to do it when all my life I could move on only if I understood things. 

48 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

 

I think I already said this. Before we got together, he started watching this girl a few times. Then we got together and he continued to watch her a few more times again. This made me think he had a fantasy of her. In my opinion, the first few years of a relationship are the most exciting, espscially if one (my bf) never had a relationship before. So I thought that if he did have a fantasy while having his first relationship, that was concerning. Because I, myself, am very focused on a person at the beginning and could not even imagine to have fantasies about someone else. I cant explain it in a different way, hope it is clear this way. And to the person who said we should break up - leaving someone I love is not an option, family dont leave. I didnt leave when I found out about him lying about watching porn, even though I said it was cheating. Because now, deep down I know it is not, I just cant feel it yet. Sometimes brain and heart are not on the same page. So, no, not planning on quitting. I plan to CHANGE myself, and adapt. Because I surely know, I wont find a man who I like and he never liked porn. And I surely know that this one loves me, he just messed up with boundaries and lies, I messed up with different things. My solution is working on me, and this relationship. There is nothing I want more than a family with him, in the future 

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Once again your gender-based assumptions -and how in particular you use them to infect and taint your relationship -are wrong.  I know many women who have high sex drives and many men who don't.  I know many people who have high sex drives and choose not to react by having more sex or watching porn.  Read all the prior posts -you're going in a circle again or were you lying to yourself about wanting to reevaluate your notions about "men"?

I dont care about men. I care about my man. And I know that sex and masturbation was a huge topic for him for years. I wanted to understand him, an no other. I wanted to know if my assumption (him having a fantasy) at the very beginning of our relationship (which should be the most fun part for a guy who never had a girl) was concerning. 

37 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

How would you feel if you were in his shoes? And he was coming at you for the porn you watched before getting together with him? Accusing you of being a woman, and we all know women can't control themselves because I've heard it through men I know, and you want to sleep with those men in the porn you watched . And he totally believed it and went through your phone and went nuts on you? And then was like, oh actually I forgive you but now you must report and no masturbating before I want sex? 

Can you see how controlling and off kilter that is and how you can never relax with someone like that? Never just be. And be seen as yourself? It's all filtered through the insecurities and assumptions, always negative? 

I would gladly have less M sessions for us, to have good sex. For me, shared intimacy and the quality of it is much more important. If I lied to him for years, I would justify his actions, going thru my phone. We are individuals, but dont act like men and women are exactly the same. They have much more hormones which lead to wanting more sexual activity. While I was outside living my life, my boyfriend watched porn each day. He IS obviously more into sexual desires than I am. So it is more likely for him to want others than it is for me. I didnt even have sex with my first partner, the second I had very few times with, I didnt care about sex. My boyfriends browser history was all about sex, when I wasnt even keen on it. So my assumptions that he has fantasies and I dont are based on that 

48 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

And if he wants to put his penis in another woman that is not ok with you for him to have those thoughts.  
also then do NOT date men who travel for business a lot. My husband does. I know he’s likely surrounded in person with attractive women regularly.  Gosh what if he sees the same hot looking woman 10-12 times in one day during a trip. Oh no !   Should he look away ??
Should he report to me if he’s near an attractive woman or women regularly during his trip and then should I ask him if he was turned on and if so was it after time 5 or 10?  

According to you I need to gather this information and if he insists on doing a job where he’s regularly around attractive women - without me there even - I mean he should quit right??

see how ludicrous it gets?

Your hubby doesnt jerk off to those people. Mine does jerk off to this porn. 

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Good luck controlling anyone's "fantasies". You will never, ever find anyone who has never had a single thought about anyone but you.

Does your therapist agree your boyfriend should only have you on his mind 100% of the time?

Also, how many times is acceptable to you for him to watch this particular actress? Five? Seven? What is the cutoff?

Good question. But cant give a serious answer. If it was 4-5 times I would be like, ok, probably good vids. 10-11 times feels like, I wanna asleep with her so bad

Seems like you guys dont understand the effects of porn. If he masturbates every time he feels a bit like it, he will consume enough to not desire real sex. My friend literally ruined his relationship with this. He felt like growing apart. Yeah, but he did it with jerking off each day. He didnt know why he couldnt desire his partner anymore. After the break up, he was so depressed that he stopped porn and guess what, his desire for real people cams back. My friend is a quite smart person. He simply wasnt able to realize what he had done because "why would five mins of porn a day be bad?!" My partner desires me so much more since he is on a no porn break. What an idea to assume that even porn twice a week can affect you (his is about how much he did). So, yes, I will talk to him and any partner I would have to not jerk off to porn every second day. Not as healthy as you guys say. To tell you another example, this is about my female friend. She literally thought she was asexual because she never wanted to be with her partner. In reality? She just had low libido and all those monthly 5-6 times she was horny, she used on masturbating. Masturbation can take away your mood for sex. Stay single if mastudbation is better for you than sex. They both should be present, but M should not be over S most of the time 

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Your problems are:  you want to control when he masturbates depending on your sex plans with him (are you trying to conceive? and what if he's not in the mood even if he didn't masturbate -are you ok with being romantic/sexual and not having intercourse or must he perform as you have proclaimed?).  

If you're still arguing with him about this same old same old then you don't trust him.  If you trusted him you would not care if he had a crush on a person or porn star.  If you trusted him it wouldn't occur to you that he was lying.  

You're not entitled to "understand" the reasons and anyway he told you already. The reasons are ...... drum roll...... People move towards pleasure and away from pain.  It pleases him to see this particular porn star.  He told you so.  He likes how she looks.  He likes how you look, apparently. 

Does he have a crush on her? Maybe.  Like I said I had a radio crush for years.  It didn't concern me at all as far as the health of my marriage -it was fun to have a radio crush!  And - if i'd wanted to I could have met him in person -gone to one of his events and seen him in. the. flesh.  I didn't because I didn't care to -I enjoyed having a little radio crush from a distance!

Did I tell my husband? Nope.  If he asked would I tell him -sure! But guess what -it would never occur to him to ask me if I ever crushed on anyone outside of our marriage cause...... he trusts me!  I've never asked him.

By contrast -when 6 months ago we were driving in a city he used to live in with my son in the car and he was pointing out landmarks then randomly said "oh and that's where [name of his ex girlfriend] lived!" I was surprised -he hadn't mentioned her in years -I asked him why -he said it was random - my son asked "who is that?" and I told him. 

Later he apologized because it was one of those comments we didn't need to hear but I didn't interrogate him to "understand" why "do you still like her?? are you still in touch with her regularly??" I didn't need to understand -I believed he blurted it out, I believed he realized it was awkward, I "understand" him and our marriage. The end. 

An insecure person (like you for example) likely would have kept bringing it up especially since we were in that neighborhood again during our vacation.  That's the difference.  You keep focusing on this one porn star. Please know that's not the real issue.  You know that, right?

Thinking that someone tells the truth ALWAYS just bc, you trust them is stupid. Moms lie to kids. Friends lie to friends, so they wouldnt worry. 

"But guess what -it would never occur to him to ask me if I ever crushed on anyone outside of our marriage cause...... he trusts me!" Oh god, so its okay to do everything if I trust someone? Or do I only trust them if I dont think any bad about them? No. I have to trust him to not cheat, but it is not about trust if I believe he has a fantasy

47 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

I am completely heterosexual, and there are some women porn stars I see by name, and know it's going to get me off, and I watch it.  I have zero romantic interest in any porn stars, nor do I want to be friends with them.  I am happily married with kids.  Sometimes, ya just want to masturbate quick, and everyone should have a right to get off the way they need to as long as it isn't illegal.  Some people love feet. Others like to peed on.  As Freud says, the only wrong way to get your freak on is to not have any sex at all.

I get the process of masturbation, and I get that porn is an easy way. I made peace with my boyfriend watching porn again in the near future. As many misunderstood, I dont want to control him anymore, I dont want him to live in a cage. We surely will talk about the method that is good for both of us - for example, I would not be okay with him masturbating at 7pm when I get home at 8pm and we could be having real sex, but I would be okay with him doing it if I am 100% not having sex with him that day. I am aware of the serious problems with my beliefs and thinking that every one talks about. Although, I will say it again : my problem is not porn anymore, my porblem is not understanding the reasons for watching the same person on ten different days. MY beliefs said it is because he has a crush on her. My partner said it is because "I dont like many of them, most of them I watch only for the situation, she has nice videos and she looks good". We could have had an arguement on how good those videos really are (as I said, it is 10 minutes of her face, acting pretty, watching herself, and 5 minutes action) but we hadnt, I just left it, with him saying "yes, and I watch that 5 minutes, I dont care about her face and fake acting". Now it is up to me to either believe it (she just has a nice body, he doesnt care about her face and those 5 mins are enough for him) or think he lies (he is into her face) 

13 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

"Allowed'?

You think you should have the right to control someone else's personal thoughts?

Yeah, you're going to continue to struggle when you have that mindset.

No. But we should know by ourselves that we shouldnt have fantasies about others