sunday_luthier

She came back this thursday, unexpectedly.  I was leaving my house to run some errands and she was walking down my sidewalk.  She said she just wanted to stop by and see how I was doing.  It really caught me off guard because the angry tone from her last e-mail (which she signed "the deceased") made me feel I was finally done with her and led me to block her completely.

She acted like that mail didn't really matter, saying "did you get the other e-mail I sent you 10 days later?  It was really sweet and interesting and I think you should read it".  But I checked my e-mail, spam and trash folders every day, knowing that e-mails from blocked addresses don't just disappear but go directly to spam or trash.  There was nothing there.

She says she didn't get a chance to express her point of view and asks to go for drinks so we can talk.  I tell her I don't think it's a good idea.  She starts sobbing, says she doesn't want to talk on the sidewalk and wants to come inside my house.  I had sworn to myself I wouldn't let that happen, but I say ok.

Her attitude is mature, grounded and respectful, and her words are everything I wanted to hear.  She says that she wants to spend quality time together, that she knows I have a need for time alone and that she does too, that we can start afresh, and that for the life of her, she has no idea why she was acting so needy and aggressive towards me, especially since she has a "secure attachment style". 

I really don't know what to say, so I say nothing.  Her words are reassuring, but they are also completely incompatible with her past words and actions.

I thank her for her visit, we hug, and she leaves.

In the days before she came over, I was doing better and asking myself if I'd ever see her again (hoping I wouldn't).  Now I'm left confused and feeling guilty again.  It seems like it will never stop.

On 5/11/2024 at 9:47 AM, clumsy said:

i have been dating a guy for 3 years now we have been living together for few months. He cooks for me, he is a family man , he is a gentle man . But when he is angry he speaks with me disrespectfully he says slang words and all and its not sometimes . its everytime he has anger issues . its been 3 times when he is over drunk he doesnt hit me but he pushes me shoves me and fight or things dont make sense. He is good when he is normal . i dont know if i should stay with him or not. I dont know if iam right or not. i dont want to share it with my friends and make him look like a bad guy. am i over reacting or is this not good.

I'm guessing this makes you feel like these angry outbursts are just occasional accidents or misunderstandings, and that once he returns to his "normal" self, everything is going to be fine.

I'm sure that when he is "normal", he is very kind, considerate, cuddly, and says and does lovely things.  You might even feel like he is your soul mate.

You don't want these angry incidents to become more frequent or escalate, for fear that your relationship will become abusive.

But the thing is, you are already in an abusive relationship.  You can expect more lovely times from this man but also more abuse, more anger and more fear and anxiety for you.

Abusers in movies are usually portrayed as all-round a**holes.  This makes it easy for everyone to understand that they are somebody you don't want to be around.  In real life, it doesn't work that way.  Abusers know how to make you feel loved, important, and generally very good about yourself.  Otherwise, why would you stay?

But the fact that you notice these outbursts or "cycles" likely means that you are caught in the cycle of abuse already mentioned. 

On 4/26/2024 at 2:26 AM, catfeeder said:

Sounds to me like this isn’t a person who will deal with you on practical matters. She’ll use your desire to work these details as a game to force you to grovel and acquiesce before she’ll respond, and she’ll continue to toy with you about them.

Skip that. Nothing is worth dealing with her anymore. You finally did the smart thing, and it makes no sense to allow belongings to be used to blackmail you into submission.

I’d change my locks so the keys are useless, and I’d file a small claim for a court to get your money back instead of attempting to deal with her. I’d bet money she won’t deal with you otherwise, she’ll just turn it into a circus to humiliate you without ever complying. Don’t save small court as a last resort— just go straight there, and hopefully when she’s served, she’ll comply rather than face a judge.

4 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

Might not even be a woman lol. 

Essentially, scammers? 

 

There is a woman in France who sells water from a bath she masturbated in...

I just recently got out of a 2.5 year relationship that resembles what I think the OP is referring to.

I didn't get into this relationship just to be "a rescuer", but because the woman in question was physically attractive, had a sense of humor, and that, yes, when we spent time together, there was a noticeable and positive shift in her mood that made me feel good about myself too.  She loved the attention I was giving her and she was very affectionate and kind to me (in retrospect, it was probably what people call love bombing), and never hid the fact that she suffered from depression.  I thought "okay, we can do this"...  I definitely didn't feel like a simp then.  Her negativity was usually brought on by her troubles sleeping, headaches, the shared custody of her daughter, and her loneliness.

But we would spend time together and cuddle and it felt great. 

And then slowly, over time, she shifted from seeking my reassurance and company to using me as a target to release her negativity.  It wasn't really about me trying to lift her up anymore, but about her trying to bring me down to her level of misery.  I tried to be compassionate, I tried to be firm, this led to silent treatment, then long, seemingly constructive talks, make-up sex, affection, love bombing, rinse and repeat.

I knew something was't right, and when I felt she was guilt-tripping me, I would call her on it, tell her it wasn't what expect and tolerate from the relationship, she would make a backhanded apology, rinse and repeat.  I tried to convince myself that I was standing up for myself by TELLING her these behaviors needed to change, but by not taking drastic measures (ending the relationship), I was SHOWING her that she could keep using me as a doormat.

She was blowing hot and cold, Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, and I would adapt to whatever mood she had decided to dress up with that day.

2.5 years of this.  Last fight we had, I knew a long talk, an apology, a nice restaurant would have gotten me back into the "high" zone, but I simply didn't have the energy for it anymore.

So, to answer your question, I was definitely not "drawn" to toxic behavior.  But once it seeped in, I couldn't really see it.  The highs were absolutely everything anyone could ever want in a relationship (the sex, the cuddling, the little favors, the laughs, the kind words), and I felt like I was the king of love.

From an outside perspective (when talking about my relationship woes to friends, my therapist or on this forum), any one of the numerous situations she put me through would have sent a guy with normal self-esteem running. 

So many events (trips, meals, dates, birthdays,...) could have been simple, enjoyable experiences, except that she would covertly create drama and chaos out of the blue to make me feel guilty and inadequate.

This strength and competence she has is something to be proud of, not something that should be a problem.  Embrace it.

Maybe the problem isn't that she could kick your ass in a fight, but that you feel you don't have a hobby or activity in which you are as competent as she is with her martial arts (?)

She came over unannounced on monday to bring me back my stuff in a paper bag, even things I didn't expect back (a microphone grille I gave her, and a couple of sheets of paper I had scribbled some unimportant things on). 

We asked each other how we were holding up... she gave me a sweet puppy look and shy smile, and I thanked her for the stuff and wished her a good day and shut the door.

Sorting through the bag I noticed she hadn't given me back my house key.  I KNOW she didn't forget it or lose it.  If she didn't give it back, it's because she chose not to. 

On wednesday, she sent me a message saying that she had finally found the earrings I had given for christmas and that it warmed her heart.  I replied that I was happy that she had found them, but that I felt we needed to stop messaging to heal and both move on, but she could still contact me by e-mail if there was practical issued that needed sorting.

On thursday, she sent me a scathing e-mail, saying that we were never a couple, but a temporary partnership, that if I needed to "heal", I could get laid with just a few clicks online, that she had wanted to build a future with me and I shattered that dream, and then she signed "the deceased".

I've been riddled with guilt since, but I didn't reply, blocked her phone and her e-mail address.

21 hours ago, boltnrun said:

If you are successful in getting your deposit back may I recommend you choose a different destination? If you choose the same dates, destination and lodging she could show up and cause all sorts of drama. 

I told her to cancel the reservation (which she did, btw) and that I would take it from there to get a refund from the owner.

She's unstable, but I don't think she would be so deranged as to travel to the vacation spot, which is very far away, and show up without any right to be there.  She doesn't know I'm still planning to go but without her.

Good news is my car keys weren't at her place after all, and I'm changing my house lock this afternoon, just to be safe.

So all that's left of mine at her house is a pair of jeans and a toothbrush.....  They can stay there.

I don't know how I'll feel in the next days and weeks, but right now, I feel liberated 

15 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You're still planning to take her on this vacation?

Noo!!  I would go with my daughters only

8 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Do you have to get the money back from her or from the vacation destination?

From the vacation destination.  The problem is that the reservation was made from her Airbnb account, but I paid for the deposit, which is now in the custody of Airbnb,

So she needs to cancel the reservation so that Airbnb can free the deposit and give it to the owners.  

So I'm counting on her good will to cancel the reservation, then on the owners' good faith to give me at least a partial refund.  Or let me make a new reservation in my own name

32 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

She'll be nice long enough to ensure you're hooked. So, probably a few hours. Then once you agree to give her "another chance" she'll go right back to berating you and making accusations and name calling. 

You've seen this movie before. Many times. It's up to you if you want to put yourself through this another dozen times. 

No, I do not.  No other chance will be given.  I just sent her another mail to make it crystal clear

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Why do you need to respond at all?

To get my deposit back

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

So you want to try to work things out? It's much better to work things out with ower if you get your refund. You can't just drag people to court when there's no dispute. 

There will be no court.  I want this to be short and over with.  If it means I lose money, so be it.  

The dust has not even settled from the breakup that she is already back.  She sent me a soft-toned and sweet e-mail saying that our breakup was the shock she needed to finally start taking care of her mental health, that she's sorry she hurt me through the whole length of our relationship, and looks forward to better days.

I have not responded yet.  But I will keep it short and firm.

As for the deposit, I am in contact with the owner of the place we paid a deposit for.  I explained the situation to him and he seems to be on board to solve it from his end.

If I lose the deposit (which I paid for entirely), it will still be much less than what I lost when my kids' mom left after 15 years together.  So yes, I'll bite the bullet if comes to that. 

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

What "stuff"? Are they things you just cannot function without (work laptop, bank book) or things you can do without or can easily replace (shirt, hairbrush)? If it's something innocuous but you insist you must have it back, you are searching for an excuse to see her again.

As for the vacation deposit, is it absolutely non-refundable? If you'll only lose $50 or something it's worth just cancelling. Unless, again, you're already missing the fantastic sex in between being screamed at and called names. 

"I guess"? You seem reluctant. Are you?

It's a 2000€ deposit so yes, I want it back.  As for the stuff left at her house, I grabbed my guitar and slippers when I broke up with her on Saturday, but there's still a set of my house keys and my car keys.  I am definitely NOT trying to see her again.

Have we been dating the same woman? 

You can read my story 

It has taken me almost 3 years to realise that my relationship was completely bonkers, event though close friends and the helpful people on this forum were trying to pry my eyes open.

All I can say is what I was told.  Narcissist or not, you need to get the hell out of there.

5 hours ago, boltnrun said:

She'll be back. Can you resist her?

Wow, I had not thought of that... I admit I dread the small practical matters we still have to address (there's some stuff of mine still at her house, we had a vacation planned together this summer for which we had paid a deposit...). 

I should get these matters done with quickly, I guess... 

10 months since....

My therapist warned me "this relationship might not be right for you" but I kept going.

More ups and downs.  I was addicted to the ups.  They were emotional and sexual bliss.  The downs were devastating and confusing.  Arguments, silent treatment, snappy attitude.  And then me making grand gestures (restaurants, trips,...) to keep the peace and make her happy.

Last time was a month ago.  She had a bad day and was taking it out on me.  I told her, without raising my voice "I get it, you had a bad day, but don't snap at me".  Silent treatment.  How DARE I stand up for myself. 

We were supposed to go back to my place for dinner and to spend the night.

I told her "I'm driving you home, I want peace.  We can talk about it tomorrow"

More silent treatment.

A week goes by.  No apology.

Then she wants to talk.  I say ok, come over.  I try to kiss her, she turns away and says "I don't think I can trust you anymore" and continues acting distant.  A few days go by, including the day before my birthday.  I see her that day.  She doesn't bring up the fact that it's my birthday tomorrow.  I bring it up and ask her if by any chance she had planned anything.  She says no, she didn't feel like it because of our "argument".  She tells me "just decide what you want to do and keep me posted, it's your birthday after all...". I'm dumbfounded 

I decide on my birthday that I'd rather spend the evening with people who actually respect and like me.  So I go out to dinner with my parents.

Two days later (last Saturday) I told her I'm done.

She cries, begs, screams that I am selfish, that I never loved her, that I took advantage of her, that I never made room for her in my life, that I'm probably gay, that I will never again find another woman like her, and that she has no reason to stay in this world.

On 6/2/2023 at 4:30 PM, rainbowsandroses said:

These types of relationships are addicting and I mean that literally.  It IS an addiction, no different from a drug addiction.  Your gf is your drug of choice. 

The highs, the lows, particularly the adrenaline pumping though your veins (and consciousness) when experiencing the highs.  Just like a drug. 

It's like playing a slot machine at Vegas, you never know when you're gonna get the good stuff!  It can keep you hooked in and stuck in a very dysfunctional and toxic vortex. 

My advice is professional help to help you kick this.  It will destroy you and leave you very scarred if you don't, speaking from experience.  

Good luck.  

I have an appointment with a therapist on thursday.  I obviously can't see the situation as clearly as everyone around me does.

I hope this will help me.

We got into a big discussion this weekend.  I thought it went great, very mature and respectful.... Except I ended up apologizing and taking her out to dinner. 

And she told me she was naive before to think that I was too nice to ever cause her pain.  But that, in time, she would find something positive from this experience.  

Of course, she's been distant since.

I feel pretty ashamed writing this on this forum.  I'm sure I've been played once again

My GF never hid the fact that she has a history of ex-friends who have bluntly told her they were going no contact on her.

Of course, she made it seem like they were the unreasonable ones.

I'm beginning to see things more clearly.  Everyone I talk to about my situation is on the same page.  One of my best friends (who is a woman) told me her behaviour is so obvious that, from an outside perspective, it's laughable.

This friend also told me that, knowing my personality, I would cave in as soon as the tears would start flowing when I tell her I want to end the whole thing.  I'm not sure I'll find the strength.  But yes, that's on me.

Thank you all for your responses.

About that last anecdote, she apologized the next day, said she had had a major mood downer and had left her house to take a drive and try to calm herself.  

That's also why I let her off the hook.  She always apologizes profusely and treats with great affection afterwards.

She takes many meds, on a daily basis.  She is very organised and consistent with her meds, but has been reducing her dosage lately, as suggested by her doctor.  She won't hear of going to a therapist.

Yes, these anecdotes are numerous, but that particular one was the worst.  And yes abous the empowering feeling of making her better, and the sex, and her incredibly affectionate personnality when she's stable.

The reason I put up with her shenanigans is because I (wrongfully) believe that this is my way of showing her compassion and support.  I want her to feel understood, but in the end, it's helping neither of us.

Another anecdote :

One day, I needed to drive my kids to their aunt's house for a weekend stay.  It was a one hour drive.  I told my GF that I'd spend the evening with her, that we'd order food when I got back. 

I drive the kids.  Their aunt asks me if I want to stay for dinner.  I tell her no, I have other plans.  I kiss the kids goodbye, hurry back to my car and start driving home.  I call her and ask her if she had any thoughts about where she wanted to order food.  She got all cold and said "whatever, did we even plan to see each other?"  I tell her yes, but then she says she doesn't feel like it. 

So I figure that's fine, no big deal.  And while I'm on the road, and since my brother is in town with his kids, I figure I'll call them up and see if they want to eat together.

Before I get a chance to call him, my GF calls me back, says "fine, you can come over".

Just as I'm entering her street, I see her car's not there.  And I receive a text saying "I'm not home.  Goodnight".....  Too late to make any other plans.  I went back to my place and ate by myself.

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

Making you feel like $%^& is what they do. They pull you down into their misery, want you to feel as bad as they do. They can be quite selfish, but say you are the selfish one. Heaven forbid if you are happy, heaven forbid you give your attention to someone else, heaven forbid you stand up for yourself, heaven forbid you don't put them up on a pedestal, heaven forbid you don't coddle them, heaven forbid you ever try to discuss their behavior, etc. You can never do anything right when they go down that path of negativity. Clinical depression doesn't go away, and treatment doesn't completely maintain it. There is no cure. 

Sounds to me she's not doing enough like taking meds, regular doctor appointments, seeing a psychiatrist. 

Dude a break is prolonging the obvious...time to save yourself and rip that band-aid off....run for the hills. 

Wow, that description is exactly what triggered me to stand up and tell her I needed space. 

Basically, she texted to ask me how I was doing and what I had been up to the day before (I was at home by myself).  I told her was doing fine, I had done some gardening, cleared some things I wanted to get rid of in the basement, worked on a little guitar project and ordered some delicious thaï food, and was pretty happy about my day.  She pretty much responded by saying that we're obviously not on the same wave length, that she was miserable and lonely (although I know her daughter was with her that day), and that I was clearly not making our relationship a priority.

I've posted about my relationship before on this forum.  We're about to reach our second anniversary, but today, I requested we take a break from each other and now feel absolutely awful about it.

My case :

I'm a pretty positive guy.  I like my jobs, I play in a couple of bands, enjoy taking walks, have two daughters (part time).  I don't need a relationship, but fell in love with one of my bandmates and we've been dating for almost two years. 

She never kept her depression a secret.  She has good days and bad.  She can be incredibly affectionate and kind and loving, but on her off days, she can be dismissive and cold. 

I have taken on the role of caretaker for her when she's down (which is often).  I really thought I could get used to her depression and not let it affect me.  But it has taken a toll on my mental health.  I feel her depression is making her a bit selfish, like she needs to be the center of attention.  But I have my kids, my hobbies. 

It's gotten to a point where I'm pretty confident that if we have time to ourselves, she'll be sweet, kind and a very loving partner.  But as soon as I go back to my family or hobbies, or simply because I want to spend time alone, she's resentful and needy.  I feel like I'm spending most of my time feeling guilty, inadequate or pressured into making her a priority (which I feel she has been, but not to her standards). 

She also sends mixed signals all the time, contradicting herself, complaining that I'm not making plans to move in together, then saying she likes her independance, complaining that I don't talk about certain topics, then shutting me down when I do, complaining that I don't invite her to my house, but always declining when I do (or in a hurry to leave).

I feel like I'm walking on eggshells all the time.  Time away from her feels like a breath of fresh air but then the guilt seeps in.

Today was the latest text of "we don't spend enough time together, I never know how you feel, I've been suffering for weeks, I don't know where this relationship is going..."

I (gently) snapped.  I texted her that these kinds of statements made be feel like I would never be able to satisfy her, that we should talk about it face to face, but that I felt the need to take a step back.

She answered "fine, take your step back".

I showed our most recent text exchange to one of my closest friends, who called her crazy and suggested I run away.

But I feel terrible and guilty, like I hurt an already wounded soul.